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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Strago)
Subject: [OT] Isreal (was re : in defence of the devil)
Date: Fri Sep 14 18:00:01 2001
shadowrun (by the way I think you're handle is totally inappropriate it
would be like calling yourself Dungeons and Dragons) wrote:

>the point of american weapons in other nations hands is that
>is has been done selectively to their closest allies only ,
>if a zimbabwean farm invader could get a hold of an M-16 as
>easily as he could a AK-47 he would have no moral qualms
>about using it ,it isn't a matter of which nation supplies
>to most countries but how cheaply they supply
>
>, but what has been viewed by the surrounding nations is the
>imbalance of their technology , the other nations around
>Israel don't have that kind of tech (even russian) none of
>them have su-27 flankers some have recently bought mig-29
>fulcrums early variants , but these are not in the standard
>of the F-16 and F-15 , in their latest variants , also the
>fact that america has sold them tanks m-60 mbts which far
>outgun the t-72 that the russians have supplied ,on top of
>which they have initiated an intensive arms program of their
>own with Kfir fighters , merkava tank/apcs , automatic
>rifles and the like , it is not that the surrounding nations
>think that Israel cannot buy these goods ,but it is the fact
>that america is also unwilling to sell them to other nations
>at the same rate,
>
OK, but the reason is because the other nations aren't surrounded by
hostile nations who, in the Isrealis view, would like nothing more than
to eliminate Israel.

>america has not once applied sanctions to the state of
>israel for taking over other nations land (the sinai ,
>palestine lebanon etc)
>
I believe the Sinai was invaded during the war in 1967, when it was a
part of Egypt. And it was returned.

>Israel seems immune to them , when
>Iraq invaded kuwait it was a different story ,but when
>israel periodically invades Palestine when some reason comes
>to the fore no sanctions are put forward , no mass army
>moves to invade israel
>
But Iraq invaded Kuwait as a move to gain more land, oil, and money,
Isreal invades Palestine for a very specific reason (generally arresting
or killing some Palestinian assholes who blew up some Israeli citizens)
and then leaves.

If I had my way, the Palestinians would have to deal with being under
the control of Isreal permanently. The country would be Isreal, Jew and
Palestinian together, without any of this bullshit about some sections
Jew and some Muslim.

The thing you (and the Palestinians) need to realize is that there's a
lot of guilt about the Holocaust, still. I'm sure the Germans on the
list could confirm this. It doesn't matter that it was 50-odd years ago,
in a hundred years it'll probably still be there. Why? Because we could
have stopped it, and we didn't. So America will bend over backwards to
aid the Israelis. If tomorrow Israel was invaded by Iran, a highly
improbable scenario I'm sure, we might drop our anger and our thirst for
vengeance and move our soldiers over there to help. We WILL NOT allow
Israel to be eliminated. Period.
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: [OT] Isreal (was re : in defence of the devil)
Date: Fri Sep 14 18:20:08 2001
At 17:58 14.09.2001 -0400, Strago wrote:

<snip>

>If I had my way, the Palestinians would have to deal with being under the
>control of Isreal permanently. The country would be Isreal, Jew and
>Palestinian together, without any of this bullshit about some sections Jew
>and some Muslim.

IMHO most of the people there would like to have this happen. The number of
extremists on both sides isn't that high.

>The thing you (and the Palestinians) need to realize is that there's a lot
>of guilt about the Holocaust, still. I'm sure the Germans on the list
>could confirm this. It doesn't matter that it was 50-odd years ago, in a
>hundred years it'll probably still be there. Why? Because we could have
>stopped it, and we didn't.

IIRC jewish people started returning to their land before the 3rd Reich
begun. But it definitely speeded that movement up, yes.

> So America will bend over backwards to aid the Israelis. If tomorrow
> Israel was invaded by Iran, a highly improbable scenario I'm sure, we
> might drop our anger and our thirst for vengeance and move our soldiers
> over there to help. We WILL NOT allow Israel to be eliminated. Period.

And by now, all wars against israel were lost anyway.

Arclight
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: [OT] Isreal (was re : in defence of the devil)
Date: Sat Sep 15 06:50:08 2001
According to Strago, on Fri, 14 Sep 2001 the word on the street was...

> I believe the Sinai was invaded during the war in 1967, when it was a
> part of Egypt. And it was returned.

Israel captured the Sinai in the 1967 Six-Day War, yes, and the Egyptians
tried to re-capture it in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. They succeeded in part,
mostly because of Israeli over-confidence, but were then beaten back due to
Israeli reinforcements (largely by US-supplied equipment). The UN
negotiated a cease-fire and a withdrawal of both sides, leaving the Sinai
back in Egyptian hands.

> But Iraq invaded Kuwait as a move to gain more land, oil, and money,
> Isreal invades Palestine for a very specific reason (generally arresting
> or killing some Palestinian assholes who blew up some Israeli citizens)

You can't condemn the Palestinians here without condemning the Israelis at
least to the same degree. The whole situation here is a very good example of
an eye for an eye (which, as I saw in a newspaper photo of a text someone
chalked outside the WTC, will leave everyone blind in the end).

> and then leaves.

Except that the whole of the West Bank and Gaza Strip (not to mention the
Golan Heights, formerly part of Syria) are nominally part of Israel despite
being outside the 1948 borders that were set by the UN.

> If I had my way, the Palestinians would have to deal with being under
> the control of Isreal permanently.

Do you know what you are saying here?

> The country would be Isreal, Jew and
> Palestinian together, without any of this bullshit about some sections
> Jew and some Muslim.

As long as they'd both have an equal say in things and would work together
to solve problems, sure. But that's just not going to happen any time
soon...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If only it were almost easy.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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