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Message no. 1
From: HHackerH@***.com HHackerH@***.com
Subject: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:22:09 EST
In a message dated 3/14/00 8:46:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
s7486var@****.bme.hu writes:

> > Yes, but sometimes those blocks can cause damage. And most of the time,
the
>
> > body is fast enough to get in a quick counterattack. Watch a Jackie Chan
> > movie and see how fast they exchange punches WITHOUT wired reflexes. ;)
>
> Yes, but movie is not reality. You know it too... (BTW: those movies are
> played at a higher speed than recorded (+5-10% ?); so they are not SOOOO
> fast. :-)

And just where did you hear this??? I've heard stories about this used in
some movies ... sure, but in the few I've actually had explained to me by
either a person involved in making the thing or by the people who were *IN*
it, the movie playtimes weren't altered.

They really do MOVE that fast in a lot of those.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-K
-"Just a Bastard"
-Hoosier Hacker House
"Children of the Kernel"
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
Message no. 2
From: Daniel Duque dduque@******.net.ve
Subject: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:13:39 -0600
----- Mensaje original -----
De: <HHackerH@***.com>
Para: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Enviado: Martes, 14 de Marzo de 2000 03:22 p.m.
Asunto: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)


> In a message dated 3/14/00 8:46:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> s7486var@****.bme.hu writes:

<snip>

> > Yes, but movie is not reality. You know it too... (BTW: those movies
are
> > played at a higher speed than recorded (+5-10% ?); so they are not
SOOOO
> > fast. :-)
>
> And just where did you hear this??? I've heard stories about this used in
> some movies ... sure, but in the few I've actually had explained to me by
> either a person involved in making the thing or by the people who were
*IN*
> it, the movie playtimes weren't altered.
>
> They really do MOVE that fast in a lot of those.
>

Some of them do, Jackie Chan is probably one of the fastest martial artists
out there, and maybe one of the best (although his movies are kind of dull),
about the playback speeds, some of Bruce Lee's fighting sequences were
actually recorded at a slower than average speed, because the camera
couldn't capture his movements very well, if that's not fast, I don't know
what is...


Daniel Duque
dduque@******.net.ve
afnetworks@*******.net

"Ego non sum insanus, meas vertitas est altera"
"I am not insane, my reality is another"
Message no. 3
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:02:08 -0500 (EST)
Excerpts from ShadowRN: 14-Mar-100 [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? .. by
HHackerH@***.com
> In a message dated 3/14/00 8:46:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> s7486var@****.bme.hu writes:
>
> > > Yes, but sometimes those blocks can cause damage. And most of the time,
> the
> >
> > > body is fast enough to get in a quick counterattack. Watch a
Jackie Chan
> > > movie and see how fast they exchange punches WITHOUT wired reflexes. ;)
> >
> > Yes, but movie is not reality. You know it too... (BTW: those movies are
> > played at a higher speed than recorded (+5-10% ?); so they are not SOOOO
> > fast. :-)
>
> And just where did you hear this??? I've heard stories about this used in
> some movies ... sure, but in the few I've actually had explained to me by
> either a person involved in making the thing or by the people who were *IN*
> it, the movie playtimes weren't altered.

Undercranking is a technique known to be used in some HK movies.
The technique usually pretty easy to spot (gravity doesn't look right),
and doesn't seem to appear as much in recent movies. Look for something
made about 15-20 years ago, they used it a lot then...

> They really do MOVE that fast in a lot of those.

AFAIK, I haven't seen a Jet Li or Jackie Chan movie yet that
utilized undercranking, but my knowledge of their earlier works are
spotty. Speaking of which, I'm really looking forward to Romeo Must Die
and hope that they insert a plot into it before it's released, but can
live without one. Saw the trailer on the big screen a couple of weeks
ago...

A quick google search on "undercrank and hong kong" results in a line
from Stanley Tong admitting that he has used it in the past (doesn't say
which movies though).

http://www.hollywood.com/sites/rushhour/news4.html

Mark
Message no. 4
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:55:45 -0500
K said correctly:
> And just where did you hear this??? I've heard stories about
> this used in
> some movies ... sure, but in the few I've actually had explained to me by
> either a person involved in making the thing or by the people who
> were *IN*
> it, the movie playtimes weren't altered.
>
> They really do MOVE that fast in a lot of those.

I have the DVD for Lethal Weapon 4. In one special feature Richard Donner is
commenting through the movie and he discusses how Jet Li blurs and that the
camera can't catch his speed. They actually asked him to slow down a bit so
the moves could be captured on film. In a fight scene with Mel Gibson, Jet's
punches were coming in so fast that Mel couldn't snap his head back fast
enough to fake the blow. They discussed how much practice and timing the
scene took.

I side with K on this one.

Smilin' Jack

Franklin Isshinryu School of Karate
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/RallyRd/mlfrankl/fiskhome.htm
Message no. 5
From: Lurch lurch@****.net
Subject: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:56:31 -0600
Daniel Duque wrote:

> Some of them do, Jackie Chan is probably one of the fastest martial artists
> out there, and maybe one of the best (although his movies are kind of dull),
> about the playback speeds, some of Bruce Lee's fighting sequences were
> actually recorded at a slower than average speed, because the camera
> couldn't capture his movements very well, if that's not fast, I don't know
> what is...

Check out Bruce's opening battle in "Enter the Dragon" for a good
example of just how fast someone can be from a standstill; alternately,
Jackie's two-on-one rooftop fight in "Who Am I?" is a great display of
agility-based speed (actually, any of Jackie's movies are great for
that, but I just watched "Who Am I?" over the weekend, so it's freshest
in my mind).

--
Lurch
http://yourang.freeservers.com
"Sic gorgiamus allo subjectatus nunc"
Message no. 6
From: _hEx_ iti03678@****.co.za
Subject: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:41:32 +0200
From: HHackerH@***.com <HHackerH@***.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: 17 March 2000 09:29
Subject: [OT] Jackie Chan Playback? (Re: Melee Combat Rules Question)


>And just where did you hear this??? I've heard stories about this
used in
>some movies ... sure, but in the few I've actually had explained to
me by
>either a person involved in making the thing or by the people who
were *IN*
>it, the movie playtimes weren't altered.
>
>They really do MOVE that fast in a lot of those.
>
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>-K

The techniques of "cranking" and "undercranking" are prevalent in
martial arts movies. Anyone who says they dont use it are just using
it in smaller degrees. The idea is not only to make the action look
faster but to allow the actors to perform their moves slower and in a
more controlled fashion. Thus, when the tape is played back at higher
speeds they look fast AND smooth, exactly the effect they are looking
for. I have no doubt that some martial artists/actors are capable of
the blinding speeds we see in the movies, but I dont think they are
capable of the smoothness of action AND the speed at the same time. At
least not without multiple takes, which gets expensive.

<hex@*************.com>
bad luck

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