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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Tue Jan 1 17:20:01 2002
Since the traffic's so low and I desperately wait for new stuff to read each
day:

I finally saw the movie. yipee! (ok, so it's been a few days ago, but still)

Incredible! The epic battles! WOW! I hope there's more of those in the other
volumes.
I even had trouble getting my sister and a female friend out of the theatre
("Ooohh.. aren't they so _cute_!" "Who? The Hobbits?" "No.
Aragorn and
Legolas." :)

All in all, they left out exactly that stuff that would have been boring or
desillusioning in the movie. Like Bombadil, or the journeys.

Just to be sure, SPOILERS for those who know neither movie nor book (which
is better still, IMO)

I still found some stuff that bothered me, but it was a) minor things and b)
only bothered nitpicking Tolkien fans like me:) i.e. Isildur overtaking
Sauron, not Earendil and Gil-Galad, or the fight at, uuh.. shoot, can't find
my english copy right now, Weathertop(?) where Frodo's wounded. Oh, and the
scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.

Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Philip Allchin whispered:
> From: "Deidre M Van Hise" <kanashimi1@****.com>
>
> > Actually it's more like, "how is Arwen as a Blood Mage?" I'm pretty
sure
> > I saw Arwen slash her cheek open with a dagger. Shortly afterwards
> > she spells her horse into greater speed and raises the river against
> > the Nazgul.
>
> It looked like a tree limb hit her cheek as she was riding, and I don't
> think it was a spell she cast on the horse so much as urging it to ride
> faster. (Seen it twice now and still haven't picked out exactly what she
was
> saying).

I think she says exactly what she said when she started fleeing from the
Nine. Of course, my memory is so bad that I forgot what exactly it was about
3 secs after I heard it the second time. And it was _definitely_ a branch.

-- GAK THE GREAT

"Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden,
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn."
Sauron aus "Herr der Ringe von J.R.R. Tolkien
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Tue Jan 1 22:00:01 2002
Personally I'd refused to watch the movie until I'd either a) read all 3
books, as I've yet to read any of them, or b) could get all 3 together
on DVD and would watch them back to back, but the hype and temptation
beat me out as well as the fact that my gaming buddies were drilling it
into me how much useful stuff there was in the movie for use in both
shadowrun and D&D games.

My favored points were these

1. Elves don't play games with a bow, every shot is a kill

2. Wizards aren't some patsified bookworm that couldn't lift a sword the
right way to save their own lives if they had to

3. Elves are EXTREMELY agile and light on their feet, hell they don't
even sink into the snow when they're walking on it

4. 400 Years? No....elves ARE immortal or very close to it and could at
will choose to give it up BUT none of them are that stupid (regardless
of what some character in a movie says) they'd sooner find some way to
make their mate immortal if they were so enamored of a mortal that they
wanted to be with them eternally.

5. Halflings, like kinder, have no evil in their hearts by their very
nature, it takes something powerful to corrupt them.

6. Shadowrun needs Halflings, reasoning? See #5

Just my few random thoughts on the movie....overall a good movie but I
HATED the ending....oh and what the hell was that "sticking the thingies
in the mud and stirring till they're done" thing....ugh...

Derek
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 07:30:01 2002
In a message dated 1/1/2002 10:07:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dhyde@*********.net writes:

<< 6. Shadowrun needs Halflings, reasoning? See #5 >>

Hrmmm...and I don't see why not. Halflings and gnomes are the only two
character species that you can play in D&D that didn't make it into Shadowrun
(well, not accounting for some of the expanded D&D rules that I know are out
there, but I'm talking basic here) I think that'd be pretty interesting to
see how they'd work out. They'd make the ultimate character to go sending on
recon missions down those vent shafts that humans and, gods forbid, trolls
are too big for... Only thing is because of their lack of desire for
adventure and their basic overall goodness, I don't know if they'd fit into
the world very well. Though I reckon I could imagine a few hobbit holes
scattered throughout the Tir somewhere, if anywhere.
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 09:40:01 2002
. They'd make the ultimate character to go sending on
> recon missions down those vent shafts that humans and, gods forbid, trolls
> are too big for...

I think this is why dwarves made it through. :)
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Marc Renouf)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 10:10:01 2002
On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Derek Hyde wrote:

> 5. Halflings, like kinder, have no evil in their hearts by their very
> nature, it takes something powerful to corrupt them.

Then why were Merry and Pippin stealing produce? Is stealing not
evil? If you don't think so, look more closely into the tenets that have
formed the bulk of Western morality.

> 6. Shadowrun needs Halflings, reasoning? See #5

Not really. Without getting into the cultural ramifications of
the concepts of "good" or "evil," and without delving into moral
relativism, I'll simply postulate that one of the things that makes
Shadowrun interesting is its moral ambiguity. Sometimes "good" people do
"bad" things for "bad" reasons. Similarly, sometimes "bad"
people do
"good" things for "good" reasons. It all depends on the individual.
Having an entire race that is somehow intrinsically "good" both
forces the GM to declare what is or is not evil and reduces said race to
predictable caricatures of real people, whose motivations are beautifully
complex.

> Just my few random thoughts on the movie....overall a good movie but I
> HATED the ending.

Yeah, I hated it too - because I knew I'd have to wait a year
until the next installment. But the movie ended pretty much the way the
book did - a big ol' "To Be Continued..."

...oh and what the hell was that "sticking the thingies
> in the mud and stirring till they're done" thing....ugh...

Those were the Uruk Hai. Seriously, read the books. It'll all
make sense.

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

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Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 10:45:00 2002
> << 6. Shadowrun needs Halflings, reasoning? See #5 >>
>
> Hrmmm...and I don't see why not. Halflings and gnomes are the only two
> character species that you can play in D&D that didn't make it into
Shadowrun
> (well, not accounting for some of the expanded D&D rules that I know are
out
> there, but I'm talking basic here) I think that'd be pretty interesting to
> see how they'd work out. They'd make the ultimate character to go sending
on
> recon missions down those vent shafts that humans and, gods forbid, trolls
> are too big for... Only thing is because of their lack of desire for
> adventure and their basic overall goodness, I don't know if they'd fit
into
> the world very well. Though I reckon I could imagine a few hobbit holes
> scattered throughout the Tir somewhere, if anywhere.

Well, Gnomes are one of the alternative metatypes in the Companion, and I
remember someone (I think it was either KaGe or White Wolf Magazine) ran
rules for Halflings some years ago...
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 10:50:01 2002
> > 5. Halflings, like kinder, have no evil in their hearts by their
very
> > nature, it takes something powerful to corrupt them.
>
> Then why were Merry and Pippin stealing produce? Is stealing
not
> evil? If you don't think so, look more closely into the tenets that
have
> formed the bulk of Western morality.

Ahh but this isn't quite true....stealing food out of a field could be
so that they can eat so stealing all depends on your reason for doing
so, remember robin hood? Was he evil? Nope...chaotic good maybe but not
evil...
And he stole a lot, but had a good reason to.

>
> > 6. Shadowrun needs Halflings, reasoning? See #5
>
> Not really. Without getting into the cultural ramifications of
> the concepts of "good" or "evil," and without delving into moral
> relativism, I'll simply postulate that one of the things that makes
> Shadowrun interesting is its moral ambiguity. Sometimes "good" people
do
> "bad" things for "bad" reasons. Similarly, sometimes
"bad" people do
> "good" things for "good" reasons. It all depends on the
individual.
> Having an entire race that is somehow intrinsically "good" both
> forces the GM to declare what is or is not evil and reduces said race
to
> predictable caricatures of real people, whose motivations are
beautifully
> complex.
>
> > Just my few random thoughts on the movie....overall a good movie but
I
> > HATED the ending.
>
> Yeah, I hated it too - because I knew I'd have to wait a year
> until the next installment. But the movie ended pretty much the way
the
> book did - a big ol' "To Be Continued..."
>
> ...oh and what the hell was that "sticking the thingies
> > in the mud and stirring till they're done" thing....ugh...
>
> Those were the Uruk Hai. Seriously, read the books. It'll all
> make sense.

Ok....maybe I'll have to do so....
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 15:05:01 2002
From: "Derek Hyde" <dhyde@*********.net>
>
> 6. Shadowrun needs Halflings, reasoning? See #5

See http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen/halflings.html

Challenge #71 (1993) published by GDW, also had an article called "œ the
Attidude", which had rules for creating your own halfling characters, and two
halfling archtypes.

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ B--- UB++ IE+ RN LST W++ dk sa++ ma+
sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
--
Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Marc Renouf)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 16:15:00 2002
On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Derek Hyde wrote:

> > Then why were Merry and Pippin stealing produce? Is stealing not
> > evil? If you don't think so, look more closely into the tenets that
> > have formed the bulk of Western morality.
>
> Ahh but this isn't quite true....stealing food out of a field could be
> so that they can eat so stealing all depends on your reason for doing
> so, remember robin hood? Was he evil? Nope...chaotic good maybe but not
> evil...
> And he stole a lot, but had a good reason to.

Thank you for precisely making my point about moral ambiguitiy.

Marc
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Wed Jan 2 21:05:00 2002
In a message dated 1/2/2002 10:15:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
renouf@********.com writes:

<< Then why were Merry and Pippin stealing produce? Is stealing not
evil? If you don't think so, look more closely into the tenets that have
formed the bulk of Western morality. >>

As you stated yourself repeatedly...read the books. They did so once long
ago, as children, playing childish games...and were reprimanded for it. But
aside from some petty vegetable theft, halflings are not known for any real
great atrocities, preferring a much simpler happier life. That scene was
another of my minor pet peeves about the movie as it relates to the books,
but as good a way as any to get the hobbits together for the road ahead if
they didn't want to follow the book I guess...
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again
Date: Thu Jan 3 13:05:02 2002
I don't even know where to begin "snipping". So I won't.

--aside: is LOTR discussion really off topic at this point? :)

Premise: "good" and "evil" races and all that

Tolkien's hobits are considered adults at the age of 33.
Pippin is only 26 during Return of the King.
Pippin and Merry stealing = adolescent pranks.....nuff said

Tolkien's orks/goblins are intrinsically evil because they are made by an
evil deity to mock the creator of the elves. Sauron is able to call the
orks to Mordor because of that evil...along with members of the other races
who have chosen service to evil.
So Tolkien had "evil" races and "free-willed" races. Remember that
there
were even elves who served Mordor at one time, and felt shame for the evil
they did.
Shadowrun does not, and never should, have alignment consideration or racial
morality. Shadowrun morality comes down to nuyen (for corps), and
individual codes of conduct (street sam code). All of SR's races are
"free-willed".

premise: SR needs halflings

as in Tolkien-style hobits? or D & D "why would I play a halfling as
anything but a thief" style of little guy?

let's see...taking a page from the SR Companion...giants = trolls, minotaurs
= trolls, gnomes = dwarves, etc...SR can have halflings very easily.

Halfling: subrace, Dwarf
hailing from portions of England and Northern Germany origianlly
no extra Bod level vs. disease, instead +1 Quik (and maybe a bonus die with
Stealth)
-1 from Str

There...all done...SR now has halflings, the rest (e.g. personality) is
roleplaying, not racial.

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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 17:50:01 2002
In article <007701c19312$b14f1950$660a19a4@********>, Gak The Great
<andypfister@***.net> writes
>Since the traffic's so low and I desperately wait for new stuff to read each
>day:
>
>I finally saw the movie. yipee! (ok, so it's been a few days ago, but still)
>
>Incredible! The epic battles! WOW! I hope there's more of those in the other
>volumes.

Yep - good stuff...



>I even had trouble getting my sister and a female friend out of the theatre
>("Ooohh.. aren't they so _cute_!" "Who? The Hobbits?" "No.
Aragorn and
>Legolas." :)

Viggo Mortensen's a much underrated actor, hopefully this will get him
more exposure.

On the other hand, did anyone else have a Matrix moment when they saw
Hugo Weaving as Elrond? :)


>I still found some stuff that bothered me, but it was a) minor things and b)
>only bothered nitpicking Tolkien fans like me:) i.e. Isildur overtaking
>Sauron, not Earendil and Gil-Galad,

Sauron *killed* Elendil and Gil-Galad, and it *was* Isildur who used the
broken stump of Narsil to hack the One Ring from Sauron's hand.

(Yes, I'm a Tolkein junkie with a bad memory. So sue me.)

> or the fight at, uuh.. shoot, can't find
>my english copy right now, Weathertop(?) where Frodo's wounded.

In the book. Frodo puts on the ring to hide, discovers it doesn't help,
gets a Morgul-knife in the shoulder that damn near kills him.

>Oh, and the
>scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.

Same thing - it *was* in the book.

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 17:55:01 2002
In article <000901c19339$c596ae10$0100a8c0@*****>, Derek Hyde
<dhyde@*********.net> writes
>Just my few random thoughts on the movie....overall a good movie but I
>HATED the ending...

True to the book. The Fellowship is shattered, Boromir's dead, Merry and
Pippin are captured and being herded towards Isengard, Sam and Frodo are
heading to Mordor alone; and Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are going after
Merry and Pippin.

Two more movies to go... this is just the interval :)

>.oh and what the hell was that "sticking the thingies
>in the mud and stirring till they're done" thing....ugh...

Saruman was cross-breeding Orcs to produce a bigger, stronger strain
that can endure sunlight (which most Orcs apparently can't). Seems
they're spawned in vats rather than born :) Fits the "dark satanic
mills" mood Tolkein was working towards for Mordor and its allies,
though, when even the soldiers are mass-produced. (What do you expect
from a writer who spent too long in the trenches in Flanders?)

Saruman's experiments produced the Uruk-hai, the ones like the leader of
the band; the one with the bow, who shot Boromir and gave Aragorn such a
tough fight?

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (steven collins)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 18:00:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul J. Adam <ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)


> In article <007701c19312$b14f1950$660a19a4@********>, Gak The Great
> <andypfister@***.net> writes
> >Since the traffic's so low and I desperately wait for new stuff to
read each
> >day:
> >
> >I finally saw the movie. yipee! (ok, so it's been a few days ago,
but still)
> >
> >Incredible! The epic battles! WOW! I hope there's more of those in
the other
> >volumes.
>
> Yep - good stuff...
>
>
>
> >I even had trouble getting my sister and a female friend out of the
theatre
> >("Ooohh.. aren't they so _cute_!" "Who? The Hobbits?"
"No. Aragorn
and
> >Legolas." :)
>
> Viggo Mortensen's a much underrated actor, hopefully this will get
him
> more exposure.
>
> On the other hand, did anyone else have a Matrix moment when they
saw
> Hugo Weaving as Elrond? :)
>


Good evening Mr Underhill, the problem with this world is the Orcs,
they're everywhere, it's like we're infected with them. I need to get
out, but you hold the key. You must destroy the one ring and I can
leave this world.


Steve
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 18:10:01 2002
> Good evening Mr Underhill, the problem with this world is the Orcs,
> they're everywhere, it's like we're infected with them. I need to get
> out, but you hold the key. You must destroy the one ring and I can
> leave this world.
>

Couldn't I just take the blue pill? :)
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 18:15:01 2002
On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:51:15 +0000 "Paul J. Adam"
<ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk> writes:
> In article <007701c19312$b14f1950$660a19a4@********>, Gak The Great
> <andypfister@***.net> writes
<SNIP>
> > or the fight at, uuh.. shoot, can't find
> >my english copy right now, Weathertop(?) where Frodo's wounded.

> In the book. Frodo puts on the ring to hide, discovers it doesn't
> help,
> gets a Morgul-knife in the shoulder that damn near kills him.

As I recall it, Frodo managed to strike the Wraithlord at the same time
...

> >Oh, and the
> >scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.

> Same thing - it *was* in the book.

I think he was complaining about why/how Frodo put on the ring, not that
he put on the ring. In the book it was less obvious that he disappeared
and more plausible that it was some sleight of hand. :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 18:20:02 2002
> As I recall it, Frodo managed to strike the Wraithlord at the same time
> ...
>
Considering it was with a normal blade...Frodo might as well have tried
biting the ring rider. The riders dagger however was far more effective.

> > >Oh, and the
> > >scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.
>
> > Same thing - it *was* in the book.
>
> I think he was complaining about why/how Frodo put on the ring, not that
> he put on the ring. In the book it was less obvious that he disappeared
> and more plausible that it was some sleight of hand. :)
>

In the older anime version it was a struggle. Basically the ring urged him
to put it on (ie like the initial contact with one of the riders just
outside the shire when he hid with sam and his cousins off the road...he was
tempted to put on the ring to hide then too and it was a visible effort that
he refrained)
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 18:40:01 2002
> >Oh, and the
> >scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.
>
> Same thing - it *was* in the book.

Not quite. That was one of the pieces of poetry that I wish had made it
into the movie (along with the Lay of Beren and Luthien Tinueviel)
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 18:45:01 2002
> As I recall it, Frodo managed to strike the Wraithlord at the same time
> ...

And does absolutely no damage. "All blade perish that strike that fell
king" is the quote, I believe?
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (steven collins)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 21:10:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Beilby <cbeilby@******.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)


>
> > As I recall it, Frodo managed to strike the Wraithlord at the same
time
> > ...
>
> And does absolutely no damage. "All blade perish that strike that
fell
> king" is the quote, I believe?
>


Actually he cut the Wraiths robe and his simply having the will to
strike back "damaged" or at least threw back the wraith. In Tolkiens
world simply having the will to stand up to an undead creature caused
them to waiver on the attack (as the Barrow Wight did when Frodo's
confidense grew from hearing Tom Bombadil's song)

Steve
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 22:10:01 2002
In a message dated 1/3/2002 5:57:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk writes:

<< > or the fight at, uuh.. shoot, can't find
>my english copy right now, Weathertop(?) where Frodo's wounded.

In the book. Frodo puts on the ring to hide, discovers it doesn't help,
gets a Morgul-knife in the shoulder that damn near kills him.

>Oh, and the
>scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.

Same thing - it *was* in the book. >>
These things were in the book, yes...but I think what he's against is how
they occured in the book vs how in the movies. In the battle at Weathertop,
Frodo did try the ring and thus was exposed to the Nazgul, and to that point
the movie follows the book BUT remember, Frodo put up quite a valiant little
struggle, even stabbing the Morgul-king with his Barrow-down sword (in the
foot, I believe) and cried out in elven "O Elbereth Gilthoniel!"...the movie
made him out to be too despondent and hopeless, which while I agree that was
a part of Frodo's character (small person caught up in affairs too big for
him) in the book he shouldered that responsibility with much more valour! He
struggled under that weight and tried very hard to overcome it...not just
crying and sobbing about his fate all the time... As for at the Inn, it
wasn't quite like how they portrayed it there either. Frodo had been
fingering the ring in his pocket (much like his Uncle Bilbo's old nervous
habit) and while singing and dancing on a tabletop, slipped and fell and when
he did the ring slipped onto his finger...close to the movie, but if you're a
nitpicker...::grins::
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 22:20:01 2002
In a message dated 1/3/2002 6:24:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jhogan@**********.nf.net writes:

<< > > >Oh, and the
> > >scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.
>
> > Same thing - it *was* in the book.
>
> I think he was complaining about why/how Frodo put on the ring, not that
> he put on the ring. In the book it was less obvious that he disappeared
> and more plausible that it was some sleight of hand. :)
>

In the older anime version it was a struggle. Basically the ring urged him
to put it on (ie like the initial contact with one of the riders just
outside the shire when he hid with sam and his cousins off the road...he was
tempted to put on the ring to hide then too and it was a visible effort that
he refrained)
>>
Sorry, gonna have to call you on this one. I've got the older anime version
and that scene is faithful to the book. Frodo is singing and dancing around
on top of a table, slips and falls and accidentally puts on the ring in the
process cause he's been fiddling with it in his pocket...ironic that the
animated movie was more faithful than the live action movie in this instance.
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 22:20:04 2002
In a message dated 1/3/2002 6:52:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cbeilby@******.net writes:

<< > As I recall it, Frodo managed to strike the Wraithlord at the same time
> ...

And does absolutely no damage. "All blade perish that strike that fell
king" is the quote, I believe? >>

I feel you're misreading that. It's not that it did no damage...it just did
negligable damage. It was just a foot wound, but you're right about the
quote. Frodo's blade simply melts. The same...SPOILER SPACE















...thing happens when Merry kills the king of the Nazgul in Return of the
King. He kills him, but the blade he used to do it perishes and he falls
under a desperate illness as a result of attacking the wraith. Eowyn's sword
also perishes.
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Thu Jan 3 23:25:01 2002
<snipt!(TM)>
> > On the other hand, did anyone else have a Matrix
moment when they saw Hugo Weaving as Elrond? :)
>
> Good evening Mr Underhill, the problem with this
world is the Orcs, they're everywhere, it's like we're
infected with them. I need to get out, but you hold
the key. You must destroy the one ring and I can leave
this world.
>
> Steve

*lol*

Very good, Agent Smi...uh...Elrond.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 01:05:01 2002
> Sorry, gonna have to call you on this one. I've got the older anime
version
> and that scene is faithful to the book. Frodo is singing and dancing
around
> on top of a table, slips and falls and accidentally puts on the ring in
the
> process cause he's been fiddling with it in his pocket...ironic that the
> animated movie was more faithful than the live action movie in this
instance.
>

I do too friend. And I'm not talking about the stupid bar scene where he
sings the tune dancing around on the table like a complete moron. I'm
talking about:

a) On the road BEFORE the inn, when they hear a rider approaching and Frodo
suggests it might be Gandalf so lets suprise him they hide under this tiny
hill/cliff on the side of the road. While the ring rider is hovering above
Frodo is shown quite clearly resisting the urge to try on the ring to
"escape" with the invisibility.

b) During the battle with the ring riders at night when they form the circle
and swing torches about again Frodo is seen attempting to resist the urge to
put on the ring but fails. Hence leading to him being stabbed with the knife
in the shoulder when he tries to stab one of the riders.


These are the instances I was pointing out. I do agree that the inn
occurance was an accident but the anime version portrays it EXTREMELY
poorly. For one thing for the movie he wears this thing on a necklace around
his neck...when he's dancing on the table he's doing that little helicopter
spin when he falls off...somehow it jumps from the cord around his neck to
his finger in the fall :)
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alexandre Nizoux)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 03:00:02 2002
[Alexandre Nizoux] Thought it was a Shadowrun mailinglist... ?!
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 08:45:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexandre Nizoux" <anizoux@**.uu.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 3:01 AM
Subject: RE : [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)


> [Alexandre Nizoux] Thought it was a Shadowrun mailinglist... ?!
>

Um, Chummer... Without Lord of the Rings, there would be NO Shadowrun.
Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 10:40:01 2002
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Paul J. Adam whispered:

<snip>
> On the other hand, did anyone else have a Matrix moment when they saw
> Hugo Weaving as Elrond? :)

Sure as hell did. Took me a few moment though to realize whoe exactly that
was.
>
>
> >I still found some stuff that bothered me, but it was a) minor things and
b)
> >only bothered nitpicking Tolkien fans like me:) i.e. Isildur overtaking
> >Sauron, not Earendil and Gil-Galad,
>
> Sauron *killed* Elendil and Gil-Galad, and it *was* Isildur who used the
> broken stump of Narsil to hack the One Ring from Sauron's hand.
>
> (Yes, I'm a Tolkein junkie with a bad memory. So sue me.)
>
IIRC (which isn't necessarily so, it's been a long time since I last read
those stories), Isildur cuts the ring of of the hand of the beaten Sauron.
> > or the fight at, uuh.. shoot, can't find
> >my english copy right now, Weathertop(?) where Frodo's wounded.
>
> In the book. Frodo puts on the ring to hide, discovers it doesn't help,
> gets a Morgul-knife in the shoulder that damn near kills him.
>
> >Oh, and the
> >scene where Frodo slips on his ring in the Prancing Pony.
>
> Same thing - it *was* in the book.
>
nono, you misunderstand me.. I wasn't criticising that these scenes where in
the film. I'd just love to see Frodo doing the "Cow-Jump" and that. Then
again, maybe it was good that they left the melody to our fantasy. The
important thing they missed when Frodo was stabbed was that Frodo attacks
one of the Nazgul (maybe the King of Angmar, not sure) in the book.

-- GAK THE GREAT

"Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden,
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn."
Sauron aus "Herr der Ringe von J.R.R. Tolkien
Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 10:45:01 2002
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Chris Beilby whispered:
> > As I recall it, Frodo managed to strike the Wraithlord at the same time
> > ...
>
> And does absolutely no damage. "All blade perish that strike that fell
> king" is the quote, I believe?
>
>
According to Aragorn, Frodo's _words_ hurt the Rider. "A Elbereth
Gilthoniel!", was it? Some elbish stuff.

-- GAK THE GREAT

"Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden,
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn."
Sauron aus "Herr der Ringe von J.R.R. Tolkien
Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 11:05:01 2002
In a message dated 1/4/2002 1:10:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jhogan@**********.nf.net writes:

<< These are the instances I was pointing out. I do agree that the inn
occurance was an accident but the anime version portrays it EXTREMELY
poorly. For one thing for the movie he wears this thing on a necklace around
his neck...when he's dancing on the table he's doing that little helicopter
spin when he falls off...somehow it jumps from the cord around his neck to
his finger in the fall :) >>

Ah, but it was closer to how it actually happened than how it happened in the
live action...and I'd assumed you were talking about the bar scene as well
because that's what was under discussion...specifically the scene at the
Prancing Pony and the encounter at Weathertop. As for the other instances,
fairly close to how they happened in the book, yes. A struggle of wills,
which you'll see happening a lot before the end of the book especially moreso
in Mordor where the ring's power is the strongest.
Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Little)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 11:20:01 2002
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Chris Beilby wrote:

> > [Alexandre Nizoux] Thought it was a Shadowrun mailinglist... ?!
> >
>
> Um, Chummer... Without Lord of the Rings, there would be NO Shadowrun.
>
>

Some might disagree with this statement.

Tolkien's work is after all a collection of pre-existing myths.
Message no. 32
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 11:25:01 2002
> [Alexandre Nizoux] Thought it was a Shadowrun mailinglist... ?!

<chuckle> Used to be. :)

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 33
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 11:30:01 2002
In a message dated 1/4/2002 11:27:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
grimjack@******.com writes:

<< > > [Alexandre Nizoux] Thought it was a Shadowrun mailinglist... ?!
> >
>
> Um, Chummer... Without Lord of the Rings, there would be NO Shadowrun.
>
>

Some might disagree with this statement.

Tolkien's work is after all a collection of pre-existing myths.
>>
Some can disagree all they want, but the influence Tolkien's works have had
on the world of fantasy and especially roleplaying are substantial and
undeniable except by those who don't like Lord of the Rings and so
desperately cry in the night "Please make it not so because I said so!"
Message no. 34
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 11:35:02 2002
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, BD wrote:

> > [Alexandre Nizoux] Thought it was a Shadowrun mailinglist... ?!
>
> <chuckle> Used to be. :)
>

oh, come on, its been AT LEAST two weeks since a product came out, and
probably another two weeks until the next, we have to find something to
talk about :-)

I reckon that the reason that theres so little discussion/anticipation of
Threats 2 is that all the people on the list that post regularly are the
ones that wrote it, hence no need to speculate, but maybe thats just my
paranoia talking (it is? who told you to say that?)

so, for the rest of us non playtesters/freelancers on the list, its time
for rampant speculation:

we have; drakes, (possibly) more on the free insect spirits, regenerating
essence through blood magic, and a NAN conspiracy...any other ideas?

--
john@*****.net
"For you're sake, you'd better be psychic, or armed" - goats
SRGC SR1+ SR3++ !SR2 h b++ B--- UB IE+ RN+ !W ma+++ gm M-- P-
Message no. 35
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Martin Little)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 11:50:02 2002
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 KiltedJamesman@***.com wrote:

> Some might disagree with this statement.
>
> Tolkien's work is after all a collection of pre-existing myths.
> >>
> Some can disagree all they want, but the influence Tolkien's works have had
> on the world of fantasy and especially roleplaying are substantial and
> undeniable except by those who don't like Lord of the Rings and so
> desperately cry in the night "Please make it not so because I said so!"
>

So basicly your argument is....

"If you disagree with me you're wrong and it's just because of sour
grapes nyah!" ?

Being as I helped build the largest Tolkien based MUSH online I'd hardly
say I'm a Tolkien hater, I just disagree with your sweeping statement of
fandom.
Message no. 36
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 12:00:05 2002
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:38:44 -0500 (EST)
Martin Little <grimjack@******.com> wrote:


>
> > Um, Chummer... Without Lord of the Rings, there would be NO Shadowrun.
> >
> >
>
> Some might disagree with this statement.
>
> Tolkien's work is after all a collection of pre-existing myths.

But the original myths were pretty different from what's in LotR,
and I don't think they'd be as popular as they are now if it wasn't for
that book.


--
Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
Message no. 37
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Fri Jan 4 13:40:01 2002
> Tolkien's work is after all a collection of pre-existing myths.
>
>

No! Tolkien's work was BASED on pre-existing myths.
Message no. 38
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: [OT] Lord of the Rings (picking it up again)
Date: Sat Jan 5 16:40:01 2002
In article <004701c19536$bea74390$660a19a4@********>, Gak The Great
<andypfister@***.net> writes
>Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Paul J. Adam whispered:
>> Sauron *killed* Elendil and Gil-Galad, and it *was* Isildur who used the
>> broken stump of Narsil to hack the One Ring from Sauron's hand.
>>
>> (Yes, I'm a Tolkein junkie with a bad memory. So sue me.)
>>
>IIRC (which isn't necessarily so, it's been a long time since I last read
>those stories), Isildur cuts the ring of of the hand of the beaten Sauron.

I keep hitting a memory that Narsil (Elendil's sword, eventually
Aragorn's) broke under Elendil when he was mortally wounded by Sauron,
and tried to use it as a crutch, and it was *after* Elendil and
Gil-galad died that Isildur used the broken stub of his dead father's
sword to cut the Ring from Sauron's hand.

(Anarion, the other son of Elendil, had been killed by a catapult shot
from Barad-dur during the siege)

>> Same thing - it *was* in the book.
>>
>nono, you misunderstand me.. I wasn't criticising that these scenes where in
>the film. I'd just love to see Frodo doing the "Cow-Jump" and that. Then
>again, maybe it was good that they left the melody to our fantasy. The
>important thing they missed when Frodo was stabbed was that Frodo attacks
>one of the Nazgul (maybe the King of Angmar, not sure) in the book.

Oh! Yes, you're right. At Weathertop, Frodo put the Ring on, but like
you said - in the book he *charged* the Witch-King and was wounded. In
the movie, he was much more passive.

--
Paul J. Adam

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