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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:01:26 +0100
scrose said on 12:27/28 Apr 98...

> The big thing on a list like this is that we have people from all over
> the world using a wide range of hardware and software platforms. I hate
> to say this but it is nothing short of rude to use things Rich Text
> formating when one is on an international mailing list...

I don't think being an international list has anything to do with it. If I
go to a computer store I can buy the exact same MS products you can in the
US, except the ones I get will cost more and be translated into Dutch.
They'll still work together fine. Likewise, I use an English-language
version of Pegasus.

The problem is all the different mailers, and their designers choosing not
to do things the standarized way but rather in a way they think will work.
Most of the time, that means each mailer can communicate perfectly with
others of the same type (Outlook -> Outlook for example), but once you sen
something to someone using another mailer (e.g. Outlook -> Pegasus, as is
common when you're on a mailing list), things can get messed up.

Unless you've set the options in such a way that you're only sending plain
text. It's a very simple solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the
first place, IMnsHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of god and Money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 2
From: scrose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:57:09 -0500
Gurth wrote:

<snip>
>
> The problem is all the different mailers, and their designers choosing not
> to do things the standarized way but rather in a way they think will work.
> Most of the time, that means each mailer can communicate perfectly with
> others of the same type (Outlook -> Outlook for example), but once you sen
> something to someone using another mailer (e.g. Outlook -> Pegasus, as is
> common when you're on a mailing list), things can get messed up.

Granted and I agree with the above statement. The mailer I use most of
the has all the cool bells and whistles but I do not use them on this
for that reason...

> Unless you've set the options in such a way that you're only sending plain
> text. It's a very simple solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the
> first place, IMnsHO.

Well Gurth you might be right in that the problem should not exist but
it has for many years and will crop up from time to time. I've also run
into problems with character sets from time to time. Someone who uses
one of the so called international character sets and doesn't realize
that Ñ or Ü might not be the same for everyone.
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:18:33 +0100
scrose said on 17:57/29 Apr 98...

> Well Gurth you might be right in that the problem should not exist but
> it has for many years

I think it has more or less since the masses discovered the WWW.

> and will crop up from time to time. I've also run into problems with
> character sets from time to time. Someone who uses one of the so called
> international character sets and doesn't realize that Ñ or Ü might n=
ot
> be the same for everyone.

That's usually the result of different operating systems as well -- they
use different character sets above #127. All TrueType fonts use a
standarized sequence of characters, but MS DOS and Macs use different
ones (also from each other), for example. So using character 0165 (the
nuyen sign, ¥) in my Windows mailer probably results in something else i=
n
MS DOS-based mailers, where the nuyen sign is character 157 (¥).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 4
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:07:20 -0400
On Thursday, April 30, 1998 6:18 AM, Gurth[SMTP:gurth@******.NL] wrote:

> That's usually the result of different operating systems as well -- =
they
> use different character sets above #127. All TrueType fonts use a
> standarized sequence of characters, but MS DOS and Macs use different
> ones (also from each other), for example. So using character 0165 (the
> nuyen sign, ¥) in my Windows mailer probably results in something =
else in
> MS DOS-based mailers, where the nuyen sign is character 157 (¥).

Oddly enough, both of those showed up as a yen sign in my mailer (MS-Ex =
Client v4
using courier new font) and can be entered as either alt-combo. I don't =
know what
this means, save that windows has some bizzare backwards-compatibility =
stuff.

(I'd be curious how Gurth's comes out - after being reprocessed by my =
mailer - in
a mailreader that sees a difference between char 0165 and char 157).

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:41:05 +0100
Jonathan Hurley said on 11:07/30 Apr 98...

> Oddly enough, both of those showed up as a yen sign in my mailer (MS-Ex
> Client v4 using courier new font) and can be entered as either
> alt-combo.

Same here, I noticed when I typed them in. (In Pegasus for Windows using
MS Sans Serif.)

> I don't know what this means, save that windows has some bizzare
> backwards-compatibility stuff.

It actually makes sense, somewhat -- if you put a 0 before the character
number, it gives a TrueType character, while without the 0, Windows must
somehow do a quick DOS -> TTF conversion and give the right character
anyway.

> (I'd be curious how Gurth's comes out - after being reprocessed by my
> mailer - in a mailreader that sees a difference between char 0165 and
> char 157).

I think 0165 would show up either as a weird code or as another character
entirely. You could save the message, go to a DOS prompt, and do a Type on
it. Hmm... I'll try that, see what comes out... Weird. Both the 0165 and
the 157 ended up as a capital N with that little Spanish wave above them.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 6
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:30:55 -0500
On 1 May 98 at 11:41, Gurth wrote:

> I think 0165 would show up either as a weird code or as another
> character entirely. You could save the message, go to a DOS prompt,
> and do a Type on it. Hmm... I'll try that, see what comes out...
> Weird. Both the 0165 and the 157 ended up as a capital N with that
> little Spanish wave above them.

That's how they showed up in my mailer in your original message. (I
use Pegasus with the Terminal font). Looking around in the Windows
Character Map, it looks like which font you are using makes a
difference.

--

=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 7
From: Grahamdrew <grahamdrew@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:09:14 -0400
> That's usually the result of different operating systems as well -- they
> use different character sets above #127. All TrueType fonts use a
> standarized sequence of characters, but MS DOS and Macs use different
> ones (also from each other), for example. So using character 0165 (the
> nuyen sign, ¥) in my Windows mailer probably results in something else in
> MS DOS-based mailers, where the nuyen sign is character 157 (¥).


I belive they are the same thing, but one is in hex and one is in
decimal or something, and they are individuated by the number of digits
(3 vs. 4) Notice 0157 yields entirely diffrent results.
--
DISCLAIMER: All grammatical and spelling errors are inserted
deliberately to test the software I am developing. In fact,
that is the only reason I am posting. Yeah, that's the ticket!
All my postings are just test data! Yeah!!
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:39:47 +0100
Grahamdrew said on 22:09/17 May 98...

> > That's usually the result of different operating systems as well -- th=
ey
> > use different character sets above #127. All TrueType fonts use a
> > standarized sequence of characters, but MS DOS and Macs use different
> > ones (also from each other), for example. So using character 0165 (the
> > nuyen sign, ¥) in my Windows mailer probably results in something el=
se in
> > MS DOS-based mailers, where the nuyen sign is character 157 (¥).

Whoa, this is old...! :)

> I belive they are the same thing, but one is in hex and one is in
> decimal or something, and they are individuated by the number of digits
> (3 vs. 4) Notice 0157 yields entirely diffrent results.

In Windows, a four-digit character number starting with a 0 indicates a
TrueType character set, while a 3-digit number is ANSI.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Professional cynic, but my heart's not in it.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Mailer compatibility
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:54:32 +0100
And verily, did Grahamdrew hastily scribble thusly...
|I belive they are the same thing, but one is in hex and one is in
|decimal or something, and they are individuated by the number of digits
|(3 vs. 4) Notice 0157 yields entirely diffrent results.

If it's as you say, with numbers like 0157 vs 157, I think you`ll find it
isn't HEX. It's OCTAL.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

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