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Message no. 1
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: [OT] Pro-ED Propaganda (was Re: AD&D to Shadowrun.....)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:48:08 -0500
Slipspeed wrote:
>

> I stand by my comment... AD&D isn't simple, not without cutting back to the
> basic rules (And even then...). Earthdawn is good, yes, but it has a
> finite, limited story. The horrors are here, and you're off to fight them
> and their minions. While the rules system is good to great, the world is
> set in stone.

Actually, no. Earthdawn has a fairly dynamic world, and FASA's sourcebooks
and adventures were actively changing that world just as they do with
Shadowrun. The overarching FASA plotline wasn't about the horrors -- it was
really more about the political and military conflict between Barsaive and the
Theran Empire.

There are certainly things you could criticize about Earthdawn, but the
richness of the campaign world wasn't one of them. And the game mechanics
aren't strictly tied to that world any more than Shadowrun's are to FASA's
2050's and 2060's.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 2
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Pro-ED Propaganda (was Re: AD&D to Shadowrun.....)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:57:32 -0500
Quoting Steve Eley (sfeley@***.NET):
> There are certainly things you could criticize about Earthdawn, but the
> richness of the campaign world wasn't one of them. And the game mechanics
> aren't strictly tied to that world any more than Shadowrun's are to FASA's
> 2050's and 2060's.
>

I'd have to disagree there. I think that the ED game mechanics are
very tied up in the Adept concept, and wouldn't work well for a setting that
didn't have all magically-enhanced PCs. The Circles and Talents are a lot
more setting-specific than SR's advancement and skill system. That's not
a bad thing, in general, but it does make it harder to adapt the system to
some other use.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 3
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Pro-ED Propaganda (was Re: AD&D to Shadowrun.....)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:17:27 -0500
Sean McCrohan wrote:
> Quoting Steve Eley (sfeley@***.NET):
> > There are certainly things you could criticize about Earthdawn, but the
> > richness of the campaign world wasn't one of them. And the game mechanics
> > aren't strictly tied to that world any more than Shadowrun's are to FASA's
> > 2050's and 2060's.
>
> I'd have to disagree there. I think that the ED game mechanics are
> very tied up in the Adept concept, and wouldn't work well for a setting that
> didn't have all magically-enhanced PCs.

Yes, this is certainly true. My point was simply that you don't have to set
the game in FASA's Barsaive in order for it to work. Any other world that's
highly magic-based and with a culture that supports the concept of Disciplines
would work just as well within the game rules. (You could even remove those
assumptions, but you'd have to strip away parts of the ruleset.)

That's not any different from Shadowrun -- any other world that's
technologically based, has a certain base level of magic, and supports
firearms, rigged vehicles and neural interfaces would work just as well within
the game rules. (You could even remove those assumptions, but you'd have to
strip away parts of the ruleset.)


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 4
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Pro-ED Propaganda (was Re: AD&D to Shadowrun.....)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:25:50 -0500
Sean McCrohan wrote:
> > There are certainly things you could criticize about Earthdawn, but the
> > richness of the campaign world wasn't one of them. And the game
> mechanics
> > aren't strictly tied to that world any more than Shadowrun's are to
> FASA's
> > 2050's and 2060's.
> I'd have to disagree there. I think that the ED game mechanics are
> very tied up in the Adept concept, and wouldn't work well for a setting
> that
>
I agree. Every game universe has an expected range of characters, and
a mechanic is selected that will hopefully suit that range. SR, for
example, is lousy at representing anything but Shadowrunner-class
people. For example, the average person would be unable (on average)
to shoot himself in the head with a pistol. Assuming that he did so,
he wouldn't even kill himself. :-) SR isn't very good at doing
high-end stuff either (SR-Supers? I don't think so!).

ED is good at handling reasonably high power levels and up. It'd be
a lousy system for, say, CP2020. It'd be a decent system for, say,
Dark Champions.

> didn't have all magically-enhanced PCs. The Circles and Talents are a lot
> more setting-specific than SR's advancement and skill system. That's not
>
Well, the Circles fit into any "level" based system. It's a sacrifice
of generality for speed and ease of comparison. The Talents don't have
to be magically-powered (or super-powered) - don't forget that if you're
going to be changing the setting, you're going to need new character
types! You could do something like in Feng Shui, for instance (granting
bonuses basically because they're the "heroes" of the story).

> a bad thing, in general, but it does make it harder to adapt the system to
> some other use.
>
The real question is making sure that the setting and system match up.
It's just a matter of realizing what your expectations are.

James Ojaste
Message no. 5
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Pro-ED Propaganda (was Re: AD&D to Shadowrun.....)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:35:40 EST
In a message dated 12/2/98 7:50:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, sfeley@***.NET
writes:

> Actually, no. Earthdawn has a fairly dynamic world, and FASA's sourcebooks
> and adventures were actively changing that world just as they do with
> Shadowrun. The overarching FASA plotline wasn't about the horrors -- it
was
> really more about the political and military conflict between Barsaive and
> the
> Theran Empire.
To add to this a slight little bit, the 4th age ended, without any true
records of the era surviving to this age, true enough?
Maybe you can't have a world-destoying plot line, but you sure can wipe that
world clear. Something ended a lot of huge empires without anything but
legends. The players will never know if the plot they are trying to avert is
the one or not :-)

Further Reading

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Thwap!