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Message no. 1
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 12:48:50 +1000
>OK. Last Unicorn Games. Smalltimer, VERY recently purchased by WotC....I'm
>going to warn you all so you can keep your sanity. If ya like Star Trek or
>Dune as an RPG setting, get their stuff (though, with Trek...eww. They take
>such a rosy-shaded approach at times it's positively disgusting.). They're
>great on detail and STUFFING their books full of things a decent GM could
>translate to ANY game as plots or hooks. However, a warning? Their ICON game
>system sucks. It's used by all LUG products as far as I can tell...It makes
>VERY little sense. It looks great on paper, but..I have, after a year, not
>figured out ONCE how one is meant to actually roll
>skills/attributes/anything. It reinforced why I love SR's basic game
>mechanics, let's say that. If anyone's figured it out...lemme know.

They're actually not that difficult - you have attributes, ranging from 1-5
(or occasionally 1-6 for exceptional races) with 2 being the average
person. Each skill has an attribute attached, and to make a skill test you
roll a number of d6 equal to your attribute (eg if you're making a skill
check based on the Presence attribute, and you have 3 Presence, you roll
3d6). You pick the single highest die result, and add the value of your
skill to it. So if you have say 4 in Acting skill, you roll 3D6 (for your 3
Presence) and add 4 to the single highest result. If the total exceeds the
Difficulty Number (effectively a TN), then you succeed. (There's a bit more
variety added with the concept of the 'drama die', a different-colored D6
included in the test, but that's added complexity. The basic mechanics work
as above.)

Not that difficult.

And, for what it's worth, people - the fact that LUG has just been bought
out by WOTC means that the LUG games will be being converted to WOTC's new
flagship mechanics system, the D20 system (a variant of which is used for
3E D&D, which is incidentally very impressive; I like it a lot). So if you
LIKE the current ICON system, snap up Star Trek or Dune right now, because
they'll only have a very limited lifespan in their current incarnation.
This is not speculation; WOTC have announced as much. In fact, the current
Limited Edition release of Dune at GenCon is the ONLY time you'll be able
to buy the ICON system Dune RPG; after this it's being pulled from the
market again and re-released mid next year as a d20 product.

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 2
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 16:51:10 +1000
>>And, for what it's worth, people - the fact that LUG has just
>>been bought out by WOTC means that the LUG games will be being
>>converted to WOTC's new flagship mechanics system, the D20
>>system (a variant of which is used for 3E D&D, which is
>>incidentally very impressive; I like it a lot). So if you LIKE
>>the current ICON system, snap up Star Trek or Dune right now,
>>because they'll only have a very limited lifespan in their
>>current incarnation. This is not speculation; WOTC have
>>announced as much.
>
>To the best of my knowledge, Lady J, they haven't announced any such
>conversion for the STAR TREK lines, just for DUNE (since the damn thing was
>something like a year and a half late and they had little invested in the
>system in the way of products to convert, unlike the TREK lines). While it
>would fail completely to surprise me, assuming that it's a given at this
>point is premature, IMHO. I have, however, dropped LUG an email asking
>about it; if/when I get a response, I'll be sure to let you know.

Alright, my bad. I'm pretty sure that I had in fact heard this, but I
haven't found any publicly released statements to that effect. It may have
been a private communication, or it may just be my fevered brain at it
again. I suspect the former - but either way, it's a moot point, since I
think you're right in that there haven't been any public announcements.

I would be very surprised to see ANYTHING being produced by WotC that
doesn't use some variant of the D20 system, though. Very surprised indeed.

>Converting TREK to D20 would be an interesting notion, however, and I'd be
>interested in seeing it.

Whee, I'm a 9th-level Engineer. Go figure.

(Can you tell I hate the notion?)

>And I have to agree with you: D&D3 is *sweet*.

Played my first game of it last night, with Tamino DMing. Very nice indeed.

>>In fact, the current Limited Edition
>>release of Dune at GenCon is the ONLY time you'll be able to
>>buy the ICON system Dune RPG; after this it's being pulled
>>from the market again and re-released mid next year as a d20 product.
>
>"Re-released" in the case of the DUNE game is kind of misleading, since it
>hasn't really ever been released to start with (this limited-time thing
>they're doing now hardly counts in my mind).

It was only so the Dune fan community didn't cry foul on them anyway.
They'd promised an ICON-system Dune game so this way they can point to the
limited GenCon release and say "see, we delivered!". I'm frankly surprised
they're bothering. I just hope my proxy at GenCon picks me up a copy like I
asked :-)


Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 3
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 02:44:05 +1000
>>>Converting TREK to D20 would be an interesting notion,
>>>however, and I'd be interested in seeing it.
>>
>>Whee, I'm a 9th-level Engineer. Go figure.
>>
>>(Can you tell I hate the notion?)
>
>I'm not 100% sure that it would require levels and such-like. The core
>mechanic could be adapted otherwise. (Like you, it would greatly surprise
>me that it won't happen, but I don't think it would be an absolute
>necessity.)

d20 is a level-based system. As far as I'm aware, that is not a negotiable
premise.

While they may not be called levels, in any particular implementation of
d20, the basic intention is the same.

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *

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Thwap!