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Message no. 1
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*************.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 00:26:09 -0500
From: Lady Jestyr
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 9:49 PM

>And, for what it's worth, people - the fact that LUG has just
>been bought out by WOTC means that the LUG games will be being
>converted to WOTC's new flagship mechanics system, the D20
>system (a variant of which is used for 3E D&D, which is
>incidentally very impressive; I like it a lot). So if you LIKE
>the current ICON system, snap up Star Trek or Dune right now,
>because they'll only have a very limited lifespan in their
>current incarnation. This is not speculation; WOTC have
>announced as much.

To the best of my knowledge, Lady J, they haven't announced any such
conversion for the STAR TREK lines, just for DUNE (since the damn thing was
something like a year and a half late and they had little invested in the
system in the way of products to convert, unlike the TREK lines). While it
would fail completely to surprise me, assuming that it's a given at this
point is premature, IMHO. I have, however, dropped LUG an email asking
about it; if/when I get a response, I'll be sure to let you know.

Converting TREK to D20 would be an interesting notion, however, and I'd be
interested in seeing it.

And I have to agree with you: D&D3 is *sweet*.

>In fact, the current Limited Edition
>release of Dune at GenCon is the ONLY time you'll be able to
>buy the ICON system Dune RPG; after this it's being pulled
>from the market again and re-released mid next year as a d20 product.

"Re-released" in the case of the DUNE game is kind of misleading, since it
hasn't really ever been released to start with (this limited-time thing
they're doing now hardly counts in my mind).

--
Patrick E. Goodman
pgoodman13@************.com
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 2
From: DemonPenta@***.com DemonPenta@***.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 05:55:16 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/00 1:27:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pgoodman13@*************.com writes:

> To the best of my knowledge, Lady J, they haven't announced any such
> conversion for the STAR TREK lines, just for DUNE (since the damn thing was
> something like a year and a half late and they had little invested in the
> system in the way of products to convert, unlike the TREK lines).

Actually, if you've noticed...Trek hasn't been much better. They are
RAPIDLY approaching the year-late mark on the Andorian sourcebook, FWIW.
Message no. 3
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*************.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 11:40:52 -0500
From: Lady Jestyr
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 1:51 AM

>>Converting TREK to D20 would be an interesting notion,
>>however, and I'd be interested in seeing it.
>
>Whee, I'm a 9th-level Engineer. Go figure.
>
>(Can you tell I hate the notion?)

I'm not 100% sure that it would require levels and such-like. The core
mechanic could be adapted otherwise. (Like you, it would greatly surprise
me that it won't happen, but I don't think it would be an absolute
necessity.)

--
Patrick E. Goodman
pgoodman13@************.com
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 4
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*************.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 11:40:53 -0500
From: DemonPenta@***.com
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 4:55 AM

>> To the best of my knowledge, Lady J, they haven't announced
>> any such conversion for the STAR TREK lines, just for DUNE (since
>> the damn thing was something like a year and a half late and they
>> had little invested in the system in the way of products to convert,
>> unlike the TREK lines).
>
> Actually, if you've noticed...Trek hasn't been much
>better. They are RAPIDLY approaching the year-late mark on the
>Andorian sourcebook, FWIW.

The Andorian sourcebook is out, and has been for a while. I've held it in
my hands.

--
Patrick E. Goodman
pgoodman13@************.com
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*************.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 11:59:31 -0500
From: Lady Jestyr
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 1:51 AM

>>Converting TREK to D20 would be an interesting notion,
>>however, and I'd be interested in seeing it.
>
>Whee, I'm a 9th-level Engineer. Go figure.
>
>(Can you tell I hate the notion?)

Further to this, and something I didn't think of when I initially sent the
message: TSR/WotC has done a D20 science fiction game, ALTERNITY, that
isn't level-based. Okay, it's not purely the D20 system they've released in
D&D3, but you can look at it and see that a lot of the same mechanics occur
in both games. So it's easily possible to convert TREK over to D20 and not
face the prospect of a 10th-level science officer.

--
Patrick E. Goodman
pgoodman13@************.com
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 6
From: lbfb marvin@********.org
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:50:33 -0400
On Sat, Aug 12, 2000 at 11:59:31AM -0500, Patrick Goodman wrote:
> Further to this, and something I didn't think of when I initially sent the
> message: TSR/WotC has done a D20 science fiction game, ALTERNITY, that
> isn't level-based. Okay, it's not purely the D20 system they've released in
> D&D3, but you can look at it and see that a lot of the same mechanics occur
> in both games. So it's easily possible to convert TREK over to D20 and not
> face the prospect of a 10th-level science officer.

FWIW there are levels in Alternity...while the only bearing they have on
you is how much xp it takes to get to the next level, and that you can
only buy skills and whatnot when you level, they are still margionally
there.

The bad news is that WotC has discontuned any devlopment on Alternity
(they are finishing out what's been announced, and then that's it) and
said that they are gonna use the d20 system for any future sci-fi
games...

IMO (after looking through the 3e PH for the past 2 days) the d20 system
could be implimented as a levelless system. Most of the impact levels have
in 3e DnD could be moved to other things without too much hassle.infact,
i'm toying with the idea of trying to implement it for my currently
running Alternity game..and i don't think it'd be too hard to do at first
glance.


--
byron thibodeaux jr.
marvin@********.org CS Junior, Georgia Tech
Message no. 7
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 22:47:19 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lady Jestyr" <jestyr@*********.html.com>

> I would be very surprised to see ANYTHING being produced by WotC that
> doesn't use some variant of the D20 system, though. Very surprised indeed.
>
> >Converting TREK to D20 would be an interesting notion, however, and I'd
be
> >interested in seeing it.
>
> Whee, I'm a 9th-level Engineer. Go figure.
>
> (Can you tell I hate the notion?)

Hey thier using it for their version of Star Wars too

12th lvl Jedi, here I come.. ;)

Although in reality in looking in onthe Demo games they were tunning at the
Con I didn't see any indication of levels for any of the characters, however
the example character on the Wizards site might give you a better idea of
what they've got in store..

> >And I have to agree with you: D&D3 is *sweet*.
>
> Played my first game of it last night, with Tamino DMing. Very nice
indeed.

After looking thru the D&D 3rd ed. the best way I can sum it up is "the more
things change, the more they stay the same" and in this case it seems to be
true.

Jalong1
Message no. 8
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*************.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossoverpossibility question)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 11:39:22 -0500
From: Deirdre M. Brooks
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 11:22 PM

>Decipher just purchased the license to create Star Trek RPGs.
>So as of January 1st, 2001, WotC or LUG won't have access to
>the properties.

Well, shit. I guess this means that LUG's never going to release the
Cardassian and Klingon books. That's too bad, as I was really looking
forward to those and the Mirror Universe book. Oh, well....

--
Patrick E. Goodman
pgoodman13@************.com
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 9
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossoverpossibility question)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:04:57 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Deirdre M. Brooks <xenya@********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossoverpossibility
question)


> > >Decipher just purchased the license to create Star Trek RPGs.
> > >So as of January 1st, 2001, WotC or LUG won't have access to
> > >the properties.
<Snip>
> I am not happy with Trek hopping around like a damned Mexican
> jumping bean.

If only Decipher had bought FASA, then Star Trek would nearly be back where
it started it's life as a RPG.

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 10
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [OT] Re:Game systems (Was: Re: Yet another crossover possibility question)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
<snipt!(TM)>
> Further to this, and something I didn't think of
when I initially sent the message: TSR/WotC has done
a D20 science fiction game, ALTERNITY, that isn't
level-based. Okay, it's not purely the D20 system
they've released in D&D3, but you can look at it and
see that a lot of the same mechanics occur in both
games. So it's easily possible to convert TREK over
to D20 and not face the prospect of a 10th-level
science officer.
> Patrick E. Goodman

Actually, Patrick, Alternity IS level-based. However
it's a VERY loose system. The levels only give you a
basic idea of competency and tell you when you can
choose certain character improvements (as opposed to
skills - things like improving characteristics,
beefing up your damage absorbing capabilities etc.).
It's very easy to remove the levels from the system
(which I have for my PBeM). All you do is award skill
points as they're earned, rather than when you reach
each level, keep track of earned skill points to get
an idea of competency and convert the levels at which
character improvements become available to skill point
totals (instead of being able to spend points on
increasing strength at 3rd level, you can do it once
you've earned a total of 13 skill points, for
instance).

And if you want a comparison, D&D3 is halfway between
AD&D 2nd edition and Alternity. It isn't quite as
broad and detailed in its capabilities as Alternity
and it'd be VERY hard to remove the levels from the
system, but it's a lot more detailed than old AD&D. It
looks pretty good for a fairly abstracted fantasy game.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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