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Message no. 1
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: [OT] RE: Harrowing of Focus (sic)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:09:17 +0200
According to Mark Fender, at 16:19 on 23 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> > There's a difference between a Robin Hood and a Hitler.
> >
> Is there? Hitler would have been right if he'd won. Thank God he didn't but
> the truth is the same. Robin Hood killed many Englishman simply doing their
> job to overthrow the shackles of a sham king. Hitler killed many other races
> to overthrow a tired government and become 'king.' The difference lies in
> which side you're on.

I suggest you get your history straight. Hitler did not kill races to
overthrow a government; he tried to overthrow the Bavarian government in
1923 (with the help of his Nazi party and former general Ludendorff) but
failed miserably when the resulting demonstration got on the receiving end
of a rifle volley by Bavarian police. Hitler went to jail, and later took
over the German government from within rather than through open
revolution. Only _then_ did he/the Nazi's truly begin to "kill many other
races." (And FWIW, Hitler was once a communist...)

Robin Hood and Hitler are not two figures you can compare, IMnsHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 2
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: [OT] RE: Harrowing of Focus (sic)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:44:54 -0500
> > > There's a difference between a Robin Hood and a Hitler.
> > >
>
> Robin Hood and Hitler are not two figures you can compare, IMnsHO.
>
And why not? They're both human, well known figures, along with a host of
other similarities. Just because one is reviled as a murderer and the other
is praised as a champion of the people doesn't make any comparisons moot.
Message no. 3
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: [OT] RE: Harrowing of Focus (sic)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:57:45 +0200
According to Mark Fender, at 12:01 on 24 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> > Hitler:
[snip]
> And led his country out of the greatest depression it had ever known,

True, but only because, like someone else said in (I think) another
thread, if people sit around doing nothing, they'll notice the dictator
isn't keeping promises.

> started Volkswagen

That may be one of the best things to have come out of the whole deal,
eventually.

> and improved the lot of his people

Please explain to me how he did that... Maybe it was by killing or
wounding roughly a whole generation of German men? By having the RAF and
US Air Force bomb every German city and factory to rubble? Or maybe by
having the Red Army come over in 1945?

Oh yeah, and before I forget, "his people" would have been the Austrians,
whom Hitler did not particularly love, either.

> Good point. I concur. I just hate it when people look at only one side of an
> issue. Hitler did a lot of good things.

I have to disagree...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: [OT] RE: Harrowing of Focus (sic)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:52:29 -0700
> And for those who say "Hitler was evil. He would always be evil, even
> if Germany won WWII," I have to say "NO!" We'd read in the history
books
> about those evil Jews and how they tried to ruin the pure Aryan race and
> how the great Adolf Hitler (I don't know his middle name, don't care to
> know it) saved it and us from "pollution" and how the aggressive French
> and English attacked the GREAT EMPIRE but how we heroically fought back
> and there'd be a spin on everything that happened so Hitler came out
> smelling like daisies.

We do read in history and see in Hollywood about those savage Indians and
noble settlers. Less than we used to thankfully... But many Americans (from
all three continents) are still in denial about just how evil the acts of
their ancestors were.

But that doesn't means they weren't evil.

The acts were evil. History can distort them however it wants. But the evil
is there.

If we assume that yes, Hitler did wage a war of aggression in Europe and
Africa and he did commit genocide then he is a villain.

This subtopic began by comparing Robin Hood to Hitler on the assumption
that they both are judged as our collective history and legends define them.
On that assumption we can say Hitler and Robin Hood are not equal. Both have
been found to be criminal. But only one is seen as a villain.

Need a villain who won? Buffalo Bill Cody's a decent one. So's Stalin and
Mao Tse Tung. History does not see all of these people as evil. But it
cannot be denied that they committed horrible atrocities. (for you yanks;
Buffalo Bill was one the major forces behind the wholesale slaughter of the
Buffalo that resulted in the loss of the ability of the Plains Indians to
support themselves and remain independent. He's one of the biggest reasons
the US has the phrase "The west was won"; cause in many ways he won it.)

Oh, and we're all getting a bit off topic now. :) (I know, including me)

Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
Resume http://resumes.dice.com/arcady
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.
Message no. 5
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: [OT] Re: Harrowing of Focus (sic)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:34:20 +0200
According to Strago, at 0:11 on 25 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> Well, yes, at the end he ruined Germany, but what about in 1939? If he
> hadn't made the teeny tiny mistake of misjudging the appeasement policy

Mistake? ROTFLOL! Hitler actively _wanted_ war, and it irritated him that
nobody would oppose Germany when he took over countries like Austria and
Czechoslovakia. Watch the (very good) documentary series about him, that
gets shown in the US on the History Channel, and on Discovery Channel in
Europe; I think it's a six-part series, with titles like "Hitler: The
Blackmailer" and "Hitler: The Criminal."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: Walter Scheper Ratlaw@*******.com
Subject: [OT] Re: Harrowing of Focus (sic)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:17:49 +0000 (GMT)
On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:34:20 +0200, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:

>According to Strago, at 0:11 on 25 Aug 99, the word on
>the street was...
>
>> Well, yes, at the end he ruined Germany, but what about in 1939? If he
>> hadn't made the teeny tiny mistake of misjudging the appeasement policy
>
>Mistake? ROTFLOL! Hitler actively _wanted_ war, and it irritated him that
>nobody would oppose Germany when he took over countries like Austria and
>Czechoslovakia. Watch the (very good) documentary series about him, that
>gets shown in the US on the History Channel, and on Discovery Channel in
>Europe; I think it's a six-part series, with titles like "Hitler: The
>Blackmailer" and "Hitler: The Criminal."

Or, if you have the time, read the excellent _Rise and Fall of the
Third Reich_ by William L. Shirer. It'll take more time than the
series but its easier to find :).

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