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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Tim Mathena)
Subject: [OT]RE: in defence of the devil
Date: Fri Sep 14 06:20:01 2001
See below for my comments

-Rookie

>
> i seem to recall another war a few centuries ago when a
> bunch of rebels used guerilla tactics and irregular warfare
> to win their freedom from the greatest military power of
> that time (circa 1770-1780 my US history aint that good) , i
> seem to recall that a non-military mercantile target was a
> unifying
> point (boston tea party)
>

This was done in our own country did we go to Britain and bomb them. Did
we kill innocent bystanders? Did we kill Children? NO


> the US takes it upon themselves to stick their military
> hardware where it isn't wanted , need i mention
> central america , laos , cuba , cambodia , vietnam ,
> ethiopia justifying it by supporting some petty dictator or
> puppet
> government , not the popularly supported peoples movement

If you don't remember a little info about Vietnam the French asked for
our assistance.

> <israel>the arabs on the whole do not recognize Israel as a
> state ,
> yet the US supplies Israel with more advanced technology
> than any other of their allies , this is a sore point for
> anyone in the region , please note this connotation ,
> islamic people are being killed by american weapons made in
> america
> weilded by people america keeps in power , why shouldn't
> they hold America as responsible as Israel , their was no
> mass leap to combat terrorism when only Israel was being
> victimised so lets try to take this as what it is don't try
> to justify it by using other nations , it was an attack on
> america because of what they have done in the middle east
> ,now what i want to know is what have they done that is this
> bad (if anything) ?


So in this sense we should anyone that Wields a Mig or an AK47 soviet or
Chinese made responsible as well. Remember weapons of over don't kill it
is the people that use them.

Don't forget all the times America has come to the aid of other
country's financially and militarily.

Below is an article I received maybe it might open your eyes a little.

"> This, from a Canadian newspaper, it is worth sharing.
>
>
> America: The Good Neighbor.
>
> Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
> recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
> Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
> commentator. What follows is the full text of his
> trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
> Record:
>
>
> "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
> Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
> appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan
> and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted
> out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured
> in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in
> debts. None of these countries is today paying even
> the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
>
> When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it
> was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward
> was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I
> was there. I saw it.
>
> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United
> States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
> American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
> Nobody helped.
>
> The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
> billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
> newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent,
> warmongering Americans.
>
> I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
> gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar
> build its own airplane. Does any other country in the
> world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
> Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
> don't they fly them? Why do all the International
> lines except Russia fly American planes?
>
> Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
> a man or woman on the moon?
>
> You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get
> radios.
>
> You talk about German technocracy, and you get
> automobiles.
>
> You talk about American technocracy, and you find men
> on the moon-not once, but several times, and safely
> home again.
>
> You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
> right in the store window for everybody to look at.
>
> Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
> They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
> they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
> dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
>
> When the railways of France, Germany and India were
> breaking down through age, it was the Americans who
> rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the
> New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
> caboose. Both are still broke.
>
> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to
> the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me
> even one time when someone else raced to the Americans
> in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
> during the San Francisco earthquake.
>
> Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
> Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
> kicked around.
>
> They will come out of this thing with their flag high.
> And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their
> nose at the lands that are gloating over their present
> troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
>
>
> Stand proud, America!
>
> I would hope that each of you would send this to as
> many people as you can and emphasize that they should
> send it to as many of their friends until this letter
> is sent to every person on the web.
>
>
>
>
>
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: [OT]RE: in defence of the devil
Date: Fri Sep 14 06:30:01 2001
At 03:14 14.09.2001 -0700, Tim Mathena wrote:

<snip>

>Below is an article I received maybe it might open your eyes a little.

<snip>

> > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
> > gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar
> > build its own airplane. Does any other country in the
> > world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
> > Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
> > don't they fly them? Why do all the International
> > lines except Russia fly American planes?

www.airbus.com Take a look.

<snip>

> > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
> > They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
> > they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
> > dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

Erm, isn't it a all-volunteer force for quite some time now?

<snip>

> > I would hope that each of you would send this to as
> > many people as you can and emphasize that they should
> > send it to as many of their friends until this letter
> > is sent to every person on the web.

Yeah, because in today's world, quantity of argument rules quality of
argument...

I'll spare all of us going through the rest of the mail.

Arclight
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: [OT]RE: in defence of the devil
Date: Fri Sep 14 06:45:01 2001
Arclight wrote:
>
> At 03:14 14.09.2001 -0700, Tim Mathena wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Below is an article I received maybe it might open your eyes a little.
>
> <snip>
>
> > > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
> > > gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar
> > > build its own airplane. Does any other country in the
> > > world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
> > > Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
> > > don't they fly them? Why do all the International
> > > lines except Russia fly American planes?
>
> www.airbus.com Take a look.

Airbus is a consortium of manufacturers from several countries across
Europe. Not one. And they've only really begun to make a name for
themselves. Many American manufacturers have had the capability since
WWII since they took what they learned during war production and applied
it to civilian production.

>
> <snip>
>
> > > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
> > > They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
> > > they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
> > > dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
>
> Erm, isn't it a all-volunteer force for quite some time now?

All volunteer since the mid 70's. The draft was used during the Vietnam
conflict, and there were many people who dodged it by going to Canada
(and one by going to England, he later became President. grrr).

--
Iridios
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: [OT]RE: in defence of the devil
Date: Fri Sep 14 10:55:25 2001
> So in this sense we should anyone that Wields a Mig or an AK47 soviet or
> Chinese made responsible as well. Remember weapons of over don't kill it
> is the people that use them.

You should try telling that to those people that danced in the streets, it would
be more effective. You see, he isn't talking about his own views here, he is trying to
look into the minds of those who feel opressed by US foreign policy. _If_ this attack was
made by Middle East terrorists (IIRC even this isn't confirmed yet), they probably did it
for the reasons being discussed here, or very similar ones.

Nothing will justify an attack like this, but obviously there's something that did
justify it for the perpetrators. Just hunting down any that might have survived (by not
being on the planes...) will not do any good if people don't have at least a glimpse of
why they did it.


--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com

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