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Message no. 1
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:09:05 -0400
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At 10:51 AM 9/15/98 +1000, Robert wrote:
>Hey, I thought handgun age in the States was 6, same as school age...
:)
>
>(There haven't been any cases of kindy kids shooting each other yet,
I hope)

Not at school no. In private homes, at least a few cases each year.

To try to bring this back On Topic, has FASA ever specified legal ages
for any of these items on the following list (I can't remember off the
top of my head if they have or not)? And if not, what do you think
legal age for these is in say, the UCAS (specifically Seattle if you
think it varies from state to state)?

Driving

Voting

Drinking

Smoking

Simsense

Sexual Consent

Firearms use


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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 2
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 03:12:51 EDT
In a message dated 9/14/1998 8:14:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.COM writes:

> Not at school no. In private homes, at least a few cases each year.
>
> To try to bring this back On Topic, has FASA ever specified legal ages
> for any of these items on the following list (I can't remember off the
> top of my head if they have or not)? And if not, what do you think
> legal age for these is in say, the UCAS (specifically Seattle if you
> think it varies from state to state)?
>
> Driving

In North America??? Average age is probably 12, with consent, due to Datajack
implantation. Of course, if North America got smart, it would have switched
to Public Transit systems and been done with it....

> Voting

I didn't think it was important enough a concept actually ;P

> Drinking

You need consent???

> Smoking

In Aztlan, it's legal to get smokable drugs at 18. Smoking cigarettes is
probably legal at any age (get 'em hooked early says "Mr. Butthead").

> Simsense

As in "Sexually Explicit Simsense?" (I presume). I don't know, that would
probably be at 16 to 18 at least, if not older (United States is so screwed up
on this topic IMO)

> Sexual Consent

You need consent??? From the partner, oh, okay, I get it now.... :P
Seriously though, if you mean "Parental Consent" or "Consenting
Adults", that
would vary widely. Also would depend on how strict corporate or governmental
population controls were.

> Firearms use


Mandatory at age 3 with Hold-Outs...by age 9 nothing short of Heavy Weapons
should be far beyond comprehension... :)

-K
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:03:18 +0100
And verily, did Paul Gettle hastily scribble thusly...
|To try to bring this back On Topic, has FASA ever specified legal ages
|for any of these items on the following list (I can't remember off the
|top of my head if they have or not)? And if not, what do you think
|legal age for these is in say, the UCAS (specifically Seattle if you
|think it varies from state to state)?

I think it would be quite.... Complicated....
The fact that Orks and Trolls mature much more quickly than humans, and have
a much shorter lifespan, probably has racial rights activists after
race-relative age modifiers...

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 4
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:48:51 -0400
On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Paul Gettle wrote:

->To try to bring this back On Topic, has FASA ever specified legal ages
->for any of these items on the following list (I can't remember off the
->top of my head if they have or not)? And if not, what do you think
->legal age for these is in say, the UCAS (specifically Seattle if you
->think it varies from state to state)?

Good point you raised, perhaps we can all have our own improptu
vote here in ShadowRN and make a difference in the Fifth World. ]:-)

->Driving

I'd say it'd be different for Orks than the rest since their
expected lifespan is shorter. 16 for everyone but the Orks, who'd be 14.
Yet another reason for that teenage skinhead to hate the Ork. Or, for the
easier, 16 years period and to hell with the orks. ]:-) Sorry Matt &
Bull.

->Voting

18 will probably remain the same, unless Canada has something
against it.

->Drinking

Who's going to enforce it? With all the other difficulties going
on I'd bet that the drinking laws remain on the books but only because no
one bothered to take them off.

->Smoking

Never understood the age restrictions anyways, and I hate smoking.
Just tax it to high heaven and only the 'adults' or 'financially well-off
teenagers' will have access to them, and the government will earn more
revene off of it (which they would deperately need in 2060).

->Simsense

No age restrictions. Sale of chips, however, would require an ID,
just like videos today, especially ones with violent and/or sexual
content.

->Sexual Consent

Hmmmmm... grey area. Not going to touch this one.

->Firearms use

Must have a permit. Duh (at me), ok, how old you need to be to
get a permit? Given that most corporate types won't want their children
armed (non-threats = less chance of getting shot by accident, besides,
that's why there are guards), and the SINless don't care, 18 years sounds
about right.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 5
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:02:39 -0500
----------
> From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
>
> I'd say it'd be different for Orks than the rest since their
> expected lifespan is shorter. 16 for everyone but the Orks, who'd be
14.
> Yet another reason for that teenage skinhead to hate the Ork. Or, for
the
> easier, 16 years period and to hell with the orks. ]:-) Sorry Matt &
> Bull.

<snip the rest>

I think the second option is more likely (and probably very annoying to
metahuman rights people). More than likely, some congresscritter who is a
member of \ is in the pocket of M.O.M. or O.R.C. tried to get this passed.
Then someone who's eveningwear tends towards white sheets and pointy hats
stood up and pointed out that would be discrimination against elves,
dwarves, and humans. That point would sway over those who are holding out
for bigger bribes from either side, and thus, the law (likely amendment)
wouldn't get passed.

Just MO, based on what I know of human nature (and the sub-human nature of
those in white sheets and pointy hats).

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and hands,
and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how to expand
the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 6
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:44:52 -0400
On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Spike wrote:

->And verily, did Paul Gettle hastily scribble thusly...
->|To try to bring this back On Topic, has FASA ever specified legal ages
->|for any of these items on the following list (I can't remember off the
->|top of my head if they have or not)? And if not, what do you think
->|legal age for these is in say, the UCAS (specifically Seattle if you
->|think it varies from state to state)?
->
->I think it would be quite.... Complicated....
->The fact that Orks and Trolls mature much more quickly than humans, and have
->a much shorter lifespan, probably has racial rights activists after
->race-relative age modifiers...

I just got a gander in SR3 at teh ages and, surprise me, Orks have
35-50 expected lifespans and trolls have 50 to human's 55..... not too
much difference for Trolls. Orks, I could chalk it up to hostile living
environment, and the racists probably would too (no, Clyde my Ork Lone
Star Rigger will vouch I'm not racist... ];-)) and prevent any legislation
giving it any easier time on Orks & Trolls.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 7
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:42:19 +0100
And verily, did David Foster hastily scribble thusly...
| I just got a gander in SR3 at teh ages and, surprise me, Orks have
|35-50 expected lifespans and trolls have 50 to human's 55..... not too
|much difference for Trolls. Orks, I could chalk it up to hostile living
|environment, and the racists probably would too (no, Clyde my Ork Lone
|Star Rigger will vouch I'm not racist... ];-)) and prevent any legislation
|giving it any easier time on Orks & Trolls.

Humans...55????
What happened to the good ol' 70?
Or is it just 55 for gutterscum and shadowrunners?
(More like 25 for shadowrunners)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 8
From: Razor Girl <sprawlg@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:09:08 PDT
>Humans...55????
>What happened to the good ol' 70?
>Or is it just 55 for gutterscum and shadowrunners?
>(More like 25 for shadowrunners)
>

The life expectancy diminishes as the standard of living decreases. The
difference between the rich and the poor in Shadowrun is extreme. The
middle class runs a huge spectrum of life quality. But most people are
in the lower middle to dirt poor range. Managed health care, medical
corps more interested in treating physical ailments rather than curing
them, untold ecological damage and polution and outrageous crime levels
all lower the time you'll spend on this earth. Quality of life has a lot
to do with it too. Spend all day jacked into sims? You'll probably cack
earlier than people who engage in the real world. Sims are the ultimate
"run away" entertainment for the masses. And when you become too jaded
for tame vr, BTLs and California Hots will fry you that much faster.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:39:55 +0200
According to Spike, at 11:03 on 15 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> The fact that Orks and Trolls mature much more quickly than humans, and have
> a much shorter lifespan, probably has racial rights activists after
> race-relative age modifiers...

They age more quickly physically; I doubt they'd do the same mentally
(humans _need_ about 15 to 20 years for that, AFAIK), so an ork or troll
would be considered adult around the same time as a human, regardless of
the fact that their bodies have been fully-grown since they were 12.

At any rate it's easier for lawmakers to have a blanket age limit that's a
nice average of everyone, rather than having people prove their race
before figuring out whether or not they're violating the law.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
On a wave of mutilation...
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:23:01 -0400
At 10:48 AM 9/15/98 -0400, you wrote:

>->Driving
>
> I'd say it'd be different for Orks than the rest since their
>expected lifespan is shorter. 16 for everyone but the Orks, who'd be 14.
>Yet another reason for that teenage skinhead to hate the Ork. Or, for the
>easier, 16 years period and to hell with the orks. ]:-) Sorry Matt &
>Bull.

I think your latter point is dead one in this case; to hell with the orks.
I don't see the fact that they grow to physical maturity faster being a
factor here. With sexual consent, perhaps. But not in any other instance.

>->Drinking
>
> Who's going to enforce it?

Who enforces it now? That should answer your question.

>->Sexual Consent
>
> Hmmmmm... grey area. Not going to touch this one.

Chicken. Come on, touch it, TOUCH IT!! You know you want to. Everyone
else is doing it, you don't wanna be the only loser not to touch it. ;-)

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 11
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:26:20 -0400
At 03:12 AM 9/15/98 EDT, you wrote:

>> Driving
>
>In North America??? Average age is probably 12, with consent, due to
Datajack
>implantation. Of course, if North America got smart, it would have switched
>to Public Transit systems and been done with it....

I doubt that datajacks are quite that ubiquitous. Keep driving age at 16.
Some places, such as California, as beginning to restrict even that. The
trend is actually to raise driving ages, not lower them.

>> Voting
>
>I didn't think it was important enough a concept actually ;P

Keith...I'll just say that one of the best parts of turning 18 for me (I
could already drive and couldn't yet drink) was being able to vote. I've
voted in *every* primary and election since that day.

But I suspect that voting age will remain 18.

>> Drinking
>
>You need consent???

No, you need a legal right though. And that right is granted currently at
21. I could see this dropping to 18 though.

>> Smoking
>
>In Aztlan, it's legal to get smokable drugs at 18. Smoking cigarettes is
>probably legal at any age (get 'em hooked early says "Mr. Butthead").

That's Aztlan. The UCAS still has a war on drugs however. Tobacco is
probably also a right granted at 18. Though, as we can see now, laws tend
not to stop teens from either drinking or smoking. And shops that cater to
the SINless (such as many of those in the Barrens) may not really care much
either.

>> Simsense
>
>As in "Sexually Explicit Simsense?" (I presume). I don't know, that would
>probably be at 16 to 18 at least, if not older (United States is so
screwed up
>on this topic IMO)

We come from a Puritan background, don't forget. By we, I mean America as
a whole. Simsense is probably much like videotapes are today. Anyone
with a rental card can rent almost anything except "adult materials." And
those are probably restricted to the age of sexual consent...see below.

>> Sexual Consent
>
>You need consent??? From the partner, oh, okay, I get it now.... :P
>Seriously though, if you mean "Parental Consent" or "Consenting
Adults", that
>would vary widely. Also would depend on how strict corporate or governmental
>population controls were.

Yes, corporate law may differ on all of these matters (Ares may allow
drinking at 16 but smoking is totally illegal or something). I would say
that the age that a person can *legally* give consent (remember, while a 14
yr. old may say they wanted to have sex, legally they *cannot* give
consent) may be dropped to 16, at least in part because of the faster
maturation rates of orks and trolls. This is probably the only instance in
which the faster maturation of a metahuman would affect the lawbooks (at
least in the items currently being discussed).

>> Firearms use
>
>Mandatory at age 3 with Hold-Outs...by age 9 nothing short of Heavy Weapons
>should be far beyond comprehension... :)

Argh. Sarcasm. Okay, really though. Without parental consent (i.e.,
parent's signing the permit forms also), say 16. With parental consent, I
see 12 for some reason. I just don't ever see it as being legal for a 6
year old child to have a firearms permit.

Erik J.

Yay! Another discussion Martin and I can get into!


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 12
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:29:42 -0400
At 11:44 AM 9/15/98 -0400, you wrote:

> I just got a gander in SR3 at teh ages and, surprise me, Orks have
>35-50 expected lifespans and trolls have 50 to human's 55..... not too
>much difference for Trolls. Orks, I could chalk it up to hostile living
>environment, and the racists probably would too

Let's not forget that is the world-wide average. A rich ork can probably
hope to see 80 or even 100. One living in Kinshasa or New Delhi might be
happy to reach 20. I know the US average life span is about 77 or
something right? What's the worldwide average? Dollars to donuts I'd bet
it's below 70, perhaps even lower than 60.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 13
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:46:32 -0500
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>
> >> Drinking
> >
> >You need consent???
>
> No, you need a legal right though. And that right is granted currently
at
> 21. I could see this dropping to 18 though.

I'd be willing to bet its going to drop to 18, or at least 21 with
exceptions. There's quite a bit of push for it, and more and more I'm
seeing people who are passing 21 and still advocating lowering it (myself,
for example... I suggest 21 or a high school graduate)

> >> Sexual Consent
> >
> >You need consent??? From the partner, oh, okay, I get it now.... :P
> >Seriously though, if you mean "Parental Consent" or "Consenting
Adults", that
> >would vary widely. Also would depend on how strict corporate or
governmental
> >population controls were.
>
> Yes, corporate law may differ on all of these matters (Ares may allow
> drinking at 16 but smoking is totally illegal or something). I would
say
> that the age that a person can *legally* give consent (remember, while a
14
> yr. old may say they wanted to have sex, legally they *cannot* give
> consent) may be dropped to 16, at least in part because of the faster
> maturation rates of orks and trolls. This is probably the only instance
in
> which the faster maturation of a metahuman would affect the lawbooks (at
> least in the items currently being discussed).

Just a sec ::rifles through his Playboys:: Age of consent in the US today
ranges from 14 (in Hawaii and Pennsylvania) to 18 (Alaska, Arkansas,
Arizona, California, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Mississippi, North Dakota,
Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Virginia, Wisconsin), with the majority of
states falling at 16. Contrary to the ruling opinion, I don't think this
is likely to go down for orks or trolls simply because they mature faster.
I think it is one part lawmakers not caring much (I get the impression
that many orks and trolls are SINless, or not frequent voters), one part
the aspect of mental maturity. A lot more is required to be a consenting
adult than the ability to get off.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and hands,
and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how to expand
the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 14
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:03:06 +0100
And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|Yes, corporate law may differ on all of these matters (Ares may allow
|drinking at 16 but smoking is totally illegal or something). I would say
|that the age that a person can *legally* give consent (remember, while a 14
|yr. old may say they wanted to have sex, legally they *cannot* give
|consent) may be dropped to 16, at least in part because of the faster
|maturation rates of orks and trolls. This is probably the only instance in
|which the faster maturation of a metahuman would affect the lawbooks (at
|least in the items currently being discussed).

Don't you mean dropped to 14? Legal age of consent *IS* 16...
(Or it is over here... I think you need to get permission off your
parent/guardian, but you can still... Do it...)


|>> Firearms use
|>
|>Mandatory at age 3 with Hold-Outs...by age 9 nothing short of Heavy Weapons
|>should be far beyond comprehension... :)
|
|Argh. Sarcasm. Okay, really though. Without parental consent (i.e.,
|parent's signing the permit forms also), say 16. With parental consent, I
|see 12 for some reason.

*12*? Snigger.....
:-0

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 15
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:38:36 -0700
At any rate it's easier for lawmakers to have a blanket age limit that's a
nice average of everyone, rather than having people prove their race
before figuring out whether or not they're violating the law.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But I bet there are also plenty of folks clamoring for all those "full
grown" trolls and orcs to be prosecuted as adults when they commit crimes.
[Its totally OK to prosecute minors as adults, even they are not for other
purposes.] HMM- how many orcs and trolls are in prison, and who gets to
use that labor pool?

Mongoose
Message no. 16
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:10:34 -0400
At 05:38 PM 9/15/98 -0700, you wrote:

> But I bet there are also plenty of folks clamoring for all those "full
>grown" trolls and orcs to be prosecuted as adults when they commit crimes.
>[Its totally OK to prosecute minors as adults, even they are not for other
>purposes.] HMM- how many orcs and trolls are in prison, and who gets to
>use that labor pool?

Huh. What a cynical, bitter, nasty thought. Why didn't I think of it?

Seriously, it makes a certain amount of sense. The troll teen may be just
as juvenile and immature as the human or elf child, but their physical
strength is going to present problems.

What probably happens is that in instances in which trial as an adult is an
*option* it is probably applied for and granted in cases involving orks and
trolls more often than for the other races. So while there may be no laws
stating that they are to be tried as adults more often, in practice they
probably are.

To continue your multi-part question, trolls and orks probably do make up a
disproportionate amount of the prison population, especially when compared
to their numbers out in society. I don't know the real numbers, but say a
full quarter of the population is either troll or ork. Prison populations
may be three-quarters ork and troll however; much as with blacks in America
today. While blacks are a distinct minority, they are disproptionally
represented in prisons. It's more a function of economics than racism
really (or at least mostly). And trolls and orks have a harder time
getting decent jobs, so...

Now who get's their labor, that depends on who's running the prisons. I
think federal slammers are still federal, but I think the state and county
prisons are mostly private industry in 2060. Some I think are run by Lone
Star. Some probably do menial contract work for the government or their
corporation, like stamping license plates and that sort of thing. Depends
on who's running the prison and who they've sold their labor too. In
theory, could be almost anyone with the nuyen.

Good question Mongoose.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 17
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:44:57 -0500
----------
> From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.net>
> But I bet there are also plenty of folks clamoring for all those
"full
> grown" trolls and orcs to be prosecuted as adults when they commit
crimes.
> [Its totally OK to prosecute minors as adults, even they are not for
other
> purposes.] HMM- how many orcs and trolls are in prison, and who gets to
> use that labor pool?

I believe most prisons are corp-run facilities, why? ::he said, trying to
seem innocent of the implications::

Nexx, who is looking for a new sig
Message no. 18
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:57:43 +0200
And so it came to happen that Nexx wrote:

----------

> > From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.net>
> > But I bet there are also plenty of folks clamoring for all those
> "full
> > grown" trolls and orcs to be prosecuted as adults when they commit
> crimes.
> > [Its totally OK to prosecute minors as adults, even they are not for
> other
> > purposes.] HMM- how many orcs and trolls are in prison, and who gets
to
> > use that labor pool?
>
> I believe most prisons are corp-run facilities, why? ::he said, trying to
> seem innocent of the implications::
>
> Nexx, who is looking for a new sig

As far as I recall my "Lonestar" correctly (ah, gotta love the FASA-boys
for that one) there are mostly Federal owned prisons. The Star just takes
hold of the criminals-to-be and delivers them after the trial (if guilty,
but, remember, no ones innocent) to the prison to carry out the sentence.
I just looked it up and it states there, that it can not be ensured that a
Corp-owned facility can, or will, carry out the sentence of the court. So
most prisons are government owned (LoneStar page 104, second column
-->DOIN' THE TIME).
But there are Corp owned High-Sec-Prisons, no one knows what happens to
poor the slots that were stashed there. Har, har.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 19
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:05:28 +0200
And so it came to happen that Steadfast wrote:

<mucho snipello>

> most prisons are government owned (LoneStar page 104, second column
> -->DOIN' THE TIME).
> But there are Corp owned High-Sec-Prisons, no one knows what happens to
> poor the slots that were stashed there. Har, har.

Uhm, maybe a fast shot, I don't know wethere it is so annymore as the
entries of the shadowtalk section are rather old (good old D. Montgommery,
ah that were times...). And, of course, who could consider Shadowtalk to be
realistic?
;o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 20
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:38:52 -0600
At 15:26 9/15/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote

>>> Sexual Consent

>Yes, corporate law may differ on all of these matters (Ares may allow
>drinking at 16 but smoking is totally illegal or something). I would say
>that the age that a person can *legally* give consent (remember, while a 14
>yr. old may say they wanted to have sex, legally they *cannot* give
>consent)

In the states ;-)

In Alberta at least, it's 14 for guys, 16 for gals. Not that anybody
follows it if they want to have sex.

But if your parter is under the age, and her/his parents find out and
report you, you can/will be charged with rape.

-Adam J
-
< TSS Productions down - New URL Soon! / adamj@*********.html.com >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 21
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:12:27 -0500
>What's the worldwide average? Dollars to donuts I'd bet
>it's below 70, perhaps even lower than 60.

Lifted from the 1997 World Health Report as published by the World Health
Organization (http://www.who.int/).


"5. Life expectancy at birth was 48 years in 1955; 59 years in 1975; and 65
years in 1995."

So you basically had it surrounded, Eric.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 22
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:42:34 -0400
On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

->At 05:38 PM 9/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
->
->> But I bet there are also plenty of folks clamoring for all those "full
->>grown" trolls and orcs to be prosecuted as adults when they commit crimes.
->>[Its totally OK to prosecute minors as adults, even they are not for other
->>purposes.] HMM- how many orcs and trolls are in prison, and who gets to
->>use that labor pool?
->
->Huh. What a cynical, bitter, nasty thought. Why didn't I think of it?

Don't feel too bad, I didn't either. ]:-)

->Seriously, it makes a certain amount of sense. The troll teen may be just
->as juvenile and immature as the human or elf child, but their physical
->strength is going to present problems.
->
->What probably happens is that in instances in which trial as an adult is an
->*option* it is probably applied for and granted in cases involving orks and
->trolls more often than for the other races. So while there may be no laws
->stating that they are to be tried as adults more often, in practice they
->probably are.
->
->To continue your multi-part question, trolls and orks probably do make up a
->disproportionate amount of the prison population, especially when compared
->to their numbers out in society. I don't know the real numbers, but say a
->full quarter of the population is either troll or ork. Prison populations
->may be three-quarters ork and troll however; much as with blacks in America
->today. While blacks are a distinct minority, they are disproptionally
->represented in prisons. It's more a function of economics than racism
->really (or at least mostly). And trolls and orks have a harder time
->getting decent jobs, so...
->
->Now who get's their labor, that depends on who's running the prisons. I
->think federal slammers are still federal, but I think the state and county
->prisons are mostly private industry in 2060. Some I think are run by Lone
->Star. Some probably do menial contract work for the government or their
->corporation, like stamping license plates and that sort of thing. Depends
->on who's running the prison and who they've sold their labor too. In
->theory, could be almost anyone with the nuyen.

On a nice note (extracted painfully): It does say in the Lone
Star book that they have their own Penal division, and I doubt it's very
small. Lone Star probably runs prisons even after their contract expires
(like, if Knight Errant took a contract from them they'd still run the
prisons that the Knight Errant guards take the prisoners too).
On a more evil note (aaaaaaaaah): Great place for Lone Star to
get some "deniable assets", huh? Faked prison break, anyone?

->Good question Mongoose.

Excellent question.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 23
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] (sorta) Legal Age? [was: Officially...]
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:39 +1000
At 03:29 PM 9/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Let's not forget that is the world-wide average. A rich ork can probably
>hope to see 80 or even 100. One living in Kinshasa or New Delhi might be
>happy to reach 20. I know the US average life span is about 77 or
>something right? What's the worldwide average? Dollars to donuts I'd bet
>it's below 70, perhaps even lower than 60.

Well I don't know about a rich ork only hoping to see 80 or 100 - maybe if
he left it to natural means. Can you say "leonization"?

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

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