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Message no. 1
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Over the Counter Drugs
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:12:40 -0600 (MDT)
I've got a migraine and was thinking about drugs (imagine that) and I
started wondering about the over the counter drugs available in ShadowRun.

I would think that painkillers and allergy medicines would be much more
effective and long lasting. Ditto with any medicine that aleviates the
symptoms of common illnesses (cold, flu, etc).

And what about such things as Prozac? Would the Happy Pill be available to
SR public? Imagine an office full of people all taking happy pills, happily
working away with happy little smiles on all their happy faces <gag>. Or
any number of emotion pills. You want to be happy? Take a happy pill. Your
mother in law just passed away and you need to cry at her funeral? Take a
Sad Pill. You're a corporate VP and you want to put the fear of god in your
employees? Take a Mad Pill.

Well, that sounds like fun :) Any other ideas? Drugs that enhance
intelligence, dexterity, endurance, vision, etc.?

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 2
From: briann@*******.com
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:03:37 +0000
On Wednesday, June 26, 1996 David Buehrer wrote:
>
> I've got a migraine and was thinking about drugs (imagine that) and I
> started wondering about the over the counter drugs available in ShadowRun.
>
> I would think that painkillers and allergy medicines would be much more
> effective and long lasting. Ditto with any medicine that aleviates the
> symptoms of common illnesses (cold, flu, etc).
>
I sure hope they are more effective. Although, The Crash might have
erased a lot of research. So they might not be too much more
advanced then we are currently.
>
> And what about such things as Prozac? Would the Happy Pill be available to
> SR public? Imagine an office full of people all taking happy pills, happily
> working away with happy little smiles on all their happy faces <gag>. Or
> any number of emotion pills. You want to be happy? Take a happy pill. Your
> mother in law just passed away and you need to cry at her funeral? Take a
> Sad Pill. You're a corporate VP and you want to put the fear of god in your
> employees? Take a Mad Pill.
>
As far as the happy pill, sad pill, mad pill, or whatever mood pill,
I think they would probably use simsense instead. Possibly even BTL.
As far as mood or mind altering effects, simsense seems to have
almost taken over the illegal drug market. I am not saying illegal,
or hard to get drugs are not out there, I am just saying they have
been displaced somewhat and the market would be smaller.

But here is an interesting thought for you. How do street docs, most
of which are formerly licensed doctors (how they got their license
revoked we do not know) get their drugs. They can't write a
perscription because they don't have a license. And pharmaceutical
companies wouldn't even approach a street doc with sample drugs for
him to try out on his patients. How do street doc's get their drugs,
sounds like they would employ shadowrunners to hijack shipments, in
exchange for reduced or no fees on future medical emergincies. On
the other hand, the street doc could go to the fixer, paying him a
huge fee, then the fixer would hire the shadowrunners. Hmmmm sounds
like cutting out the fixer would be more economical to the street
doc. what do you think?
>
> Well, that sounds like fun :) Any other ideas? Drugs that enhance
> intelligence, dexterity, endurance, vision, etc.?
>
> -David
>
> /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
> "His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
> underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
> ~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
>
>

Brian K. Nielsen
e-mail: briann@*******.com
Message no. 3
From: "John R. Wicker II" <jrwick00@********.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:32:45 -0400 (EDT)
>As far as the happy pill, sad pill, mad pill, or whatever mood pill,
>I think they would probably use simsense instead. Possibly even BTL.
>As far as mood or mind altering effects, simsense seems to have
>almost taken over the illegal drug market. I am not saying illegal,
>or hard to get drugs are not out there, I am just saying they have
>been displaced somewhat and the market would be smaller.

The BTL was invented to sanitze Shadowrun's version of cyberpunk in
the same way that words like "frag" and "drek" have been introduced in
the
place of their more worldly counterparts. A parent picking up the module
"Dreamchipper" probably wouldn't recognize the concept of simsense as
quickly as they might recognize heroin addiction.
FASA is a market-savvy company. They knew all about the uproar over
D&D in the early and middle eighties. They managed to redesign Shadowrun
when Talosian introduced Cyberpunk 2010 so that there was less overlap
between the games. They're not above making up new addictions with the same
net result if it keeps the 700 Club and the Moral Majority at bay.
All of this makes for good marketting, but don't ever believe that
drugs aren't viable in a Shadowrun campaign. In analyzing the population of
drug users you'll find that the majority exist on the bottom of the
socio-economic ladder. These people won't be able to afford surgery to
implant a datajack so that they can get stupid. As such they'll turn to the
cheap and readily available pharmaceuticals which don't require such a
"start-up" cost.


John R. Wicker II ConstructionNet
Customer Service Manager 121 Prosperous Place, Suite 11a
(606) 263-4946 Lexington, Ky 40509
Message no. 4
From: Marc Lipshitz <MLIPSHIT@****.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs -Reply
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 08:37:18 +0200
**********ORIGINAL MESSAGE**************
>>> <briann@*******.com> 26/June/1996 04:03pm >>>
On Wednesday, June 26, 1996 David Buehrer wrote:
But here is an interesting thought for you. How do street docs, most of
which are formerly licensed doctors (how they got their license revoked
we do not know) get their drugs. They can't write a perscription
because they don't have a license. And pharmaceutical companies
wouldn't even approach a street doc with sample drugs for him to try
out on his patients.
*************END ORIGINAL MESSAGE**************

I don't know about pharmeceutical companies not supplying drugs to
Street Docs , you want to test a new drug without the cost of clinical
testing, supply it to a street doc with a proviso that he supply results of
the drug usage to you. In return for the testingof the new drug, the
pharmeceutical company would then sell the street doc normal issue
drugs. A whole new twist for the shadowrunners to worry about, the
street doc testing experimental drugs on them..................

Heh, Heh what an evil thought I just had for our next session.:)

Marc Lipshitz
Message no. 5
From: briann@*******.com
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 03:05:12 +0000
On Wednesday, June 26, 1996 John R Wicker II wrote:
>
> The BTL was invented to sanitze Shadowrun's version of cyberpunk in
> the same way that words like "frag" and "drek" have been
introduced in the
> place of their more worldly counterparts. A parent picking up the module
> "Dreamchipper" probably wouldn't recognize the concept of simsense as
> quickly as they might recognize heroin addiction.
> FASA is a market-savvy company. They knew all about the uproar over
> D&D in the early and middle eighties. They managed to redesign Shadowrun
> when Talosian introduced Cyberpunk 2010 so that there was less overlap
> between the games. They're not above making up new addictions with the same
> net result if it keeps the 700 Club and the Moral Majority at bay.
> All of this makes for good marketting, but don't ever believe that
> drugs aren't viable in a Shadowrun campaign. In analyzing the population of
> drug users you'll find that the majority exist on the bottom of the
> socio-economic ladder. These people won't be able to afford surgery to
> implant a datajack so that they can get stupid. As such they'll turn to the
> cheap and readily available pharmaceuticals which don't require such a
> "start-up" cost.
>
>
> John R. Wicker II ConstructionNet
> Customer Service Manager 121 Prosperous Place, Suite 11a
> (606) 263-4946 Lexington, Ky 40509
>

Although I agree that FASA is a savvy company, I do not think they
came up with the original concept of Simsense or BTL. I do not
remember the title of the books, but I am pretty sure both
simsense and BTL were originally introduced in the cyberpunk style
books that preceded the cyberpunk style games. The names used in
these books probably were not simsense or BTL, but the concept was
the same. A computer program that could alter mental states. Now I
agree, this would not eradicate drug use, but I still believe it
would displace a significant portion of the market. After all
neither chip jacks nor data jacks are required for a simsense player.
If you read the Shadowrun Novels, and the rules (gear section I
believe), you will find that there is a piece of head gear that can
be worn which will let you experience a simsense without the surgery
required for a datajack or chipjack. With this, Once the junkie has
acquired a player with the (hat for lack of a better term) all he has
to do is acuire the chip. Most chips, excluding the truly hot BTL,
can be plaid multiple times possibly forever (unless the creator
built in a degradation routine into the chip). This would make it
over all cheaper for a junkie to get his fix. With a handful of
chips, the junkie can have any fix he wants any time he wants. He
need only buy a new chip when he wants a new experience, and that's
only if he can't steal it. Therefore simsense and BTL can displace a
significant market of the drug arena.

I did not say drugs are not viable either, I have even used drugs in
my campaign. I printed out the pages at Paolo's site regarding the
various drugs and their effects in the shadowrun universe. I think
they are very handy, and add a nice element to the game. However,
you can not blame FASA for wanting to leave these out of the game.
Drugs are a touchy subject and have been left out of most, if not all
role playing game systems (at least by the designers of the games).
However this does not detract from the cyberpunk theme of simsense
and BTL, which are another form of addiction. Or at least can be
addicting.

Now as to the 700 club and the Moral Majority. I personally dislike
using adult theme's around children. And as part of that dislike, I
try to avoid playing with children unless I have met and talked to
the parents of the child. If the parent understands what is going on
and says it's o.k., then I will let a mature adolescent or child play
in my games. Most of my friends and people I play with in my area
have similar guidelines. I also believe that if either someone at
the 700 club, or someone in the Moral Majority that wanted to bring
up the problems of addiction, all they would really need to do is
actually read the published materials. This would give them first
hand knowledge of the various game systems, and they could use it
against us in a limited way, but it would probably dispel most of
their fears of role playing games in the process.

Also regarding children playing role playing games, or children doing
anything. It is my belief that parents should stay informed about
what their children are doing, and take an active part in guiding
their children's development even in role playing games. After all if
you do not know what your children are doing or who they are doing
what with, then your children could end up in serious trouble. That
trouble could financial, chemical, emotional, or anything else you
can think of. Parents should care about their children and learn
about what they are doing. Participate in your children's activities,
your children will love you for it.

As for adults. They are adults let them make up their own minds, and
keep government controls out of my hobby. Religious zealots can spout
all they want, I won't listen to any of them unless they have read
and played the games they are condemning.


Brian K. Nielsen
e-mail: briann@*******.com
Message no. 6
From: briann@*******.com
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs -Reply
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 03:05:12 +0000
On Thursday, June 27, 1996 Marc Lipshitz wrote:
>
> I don't know about pharmeceutical companies not supplying drugs to
> Street Docs , you want to test a new drug without the cost of clinical
> testing, supply it to a street doc with a proviso that he supply results of
> the drug usage to you. In return for the testingof the new drug, the
> pharmeceutical company would then sell the street doc normal issue
> drugs. A whole new twist for the shadowrunners to worry about, the
> street doc testing experimental drugs on them..................
>
> Heh, Heh what an evil thought I just had for our next session.:)
>
> Marc Lipshitz
>

Actually, I don't think any pharmaceutical company would supply an
doctor without a license. Pharmaceutical companies are more likely
to put their own licensed doctors in a temporary shadowclinic to test
experimental drugs. That way, when the test is over, they pull out
their doctors and equipment vanishing like a fart in the wind.

Pardon the quote from shawshank redemption.

With supplying street docs with experimental drugs for illegal
testing, they are leaving a very big trail for people to follow back
to the company. After all, there would be a whole lot of upset lower
class people and shadowrunners if several street docs all of a sudden
turned up dead or missing. And that is what the company would have
to do to the street docs if they didn't want side effects and the
illegal testing to eventually get out. Especially if something went
majorly wrong with the drug, say deadly side effects or destruction
of vital tissues inside the body. I doubt street docs would want to
touch experimental drugs anyway, Would you want to explain to that
nasty troll samurai why the treatment you gave him last week turned
his urine blue, and gave him green hair along with black fingernails.
Especially when this is not a look he likes. I don't think so,
Street Docs will stay away from experimental drugs. The shadow
community would not take to kindly to being experimented on.

see ya chummer,

Brian K. Nielsen
e-mail: briann@*******.com
Message no. 7
From: "Sambo" <polan881@******.edu>
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 04:37:31 +0000
Brian said:

>Although I agree that FASA is a savvy company, I do not think they
>came up with the original concept of Simsense or BTL.

The earliest example of Simsense/BTL that I can recall is the movie
"Brainstorm". It had Christopher Walken and Natalie Wood(her last
movie). If you haven't seen it, check it out. It's a good flick.

***Sparhawk***
Message no. 8
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 08:02:33 -0600 (MDT)
briann@*******.com wrote:
|
|As far as the happy pill, sad pill, mad pill, or whatever mood pill,
|I think they would probably use simsense instead. Possibly even BTL.
|As far as mood or mind altering effects, simsense seems to have
|almost taken over the illegal drug market. I am not saying illegal,
|or hard to get drugs are not out there, I am just saying they have
|been displaced somewhat and the market would be smaller.

I see a need for drugs if people want to have a high while their
walking around on the street. Cuz simsense units sound like their not
to inconspicuous to me. But, if you've seen the movie "Strange Days"
(excellent BTW) and feel that simsense units are small and the trodes
can fit under a wig then they probably would almost completely displace
the drug market.

-David

(Accidently erased his .sig)
Message no. 9
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs -Reply
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:38:21 +0200
On 27.06.96, Marc Lipshitz wrote about "Re: Over the Counter Drugs -Reply":
[drugs for street docs]
> I don't know about pharmeceutical companies not supplying drugs to
> Street Docs , you want to test a new drug without the cost of clinical
> testing, supply it to a street doc with a proviso that he supply results of
> the drug usage to you. In return for the testingof the new drug, the
> pharmeceutical company would then sell the street doc normal issue
> drugs. A whole new twist for the shadowrunners to worry about, the
> street doc testing experimental drugs on them..................
>
> Heh, Heh what an evil thought I just had for our next session.:)
But you'll have to to bring them to the street doc first...
Hm... when will my grouip arrive? Sorry... Off to re-write the current
Run :-)

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 10
From: "Robert J. Waters" <rjwate01@*****.louisville.edu>
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs -Reply
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 19:45:48 -0500 (EDT)
> Actually, I don't think any pharmaceutical company would supply an
> doctor without a license. Pharmaceutical companies are more likely
> to put their own licensed doctors in a temporary shadowclinic to test
> experimental drugs. That way, when the test is over, they pull out
> their doctors and equipment vanishing like a fart in the wind.
>
> Pardon the quote from shawshank redemption.
>
> With supplying street docs with experimental drugs for illegal
> testing, they are leaving a very big trail for people to follow back
> to the company. After all, there would be a whole lot of upset lower
> class people and shadowrunners if several street docs all of a sudden
> turned up dead or missing. And that is what the company would have
> to do to the street docs if they didn't want side effects and the
> illegal testing to eventually get out. Especially if something went

Not likely the fringe and shadowrunners are gonna say "I went to an unlicensed
doctor...er yeah they are typically called chop shops...anyway he tested this
drug on me that isnt FDA approved without asking my permission.". Corps
response "We have never had any dealing with unlicensed doctors in anyway and
the drugs must have been stolen. We did report a shipment of the drugs going
to a licensed testing lab as being stolen.". Also consider these drugs are
usually outrageously expensive and the fringe/shadows people are usually more
than willing to get some treatment even if it involves the use of drugs as
guinee pigs (remember all the buzz about aids patients willing offering to be
guinee pigs for new drugs that have as yet to be FDA approved just so that
they would get some sort of treatment and these people weren't even fringe
people, just desperate for hope and a cure.).

> majorly wrong with the drug, say deadly side effects or destruction
> of vital tissues inside the body. I doubt street docs would want to
> touch experimental drugs anyway, Would you want to explain to that
> nasty troll samurai why the treatment you gave him last week turned
> his urine blue, and gave him green hair along with black fingernails.
> Especially when this is not a look he likes. I don't think so,
> Street Docs will stay away from experimental drugs. The shadow
> community would not take to kindly to being experimented on.

--
Luc AKA BobW

EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!
BUT THE CORPSE STILL HAS THE FLOOR!
--Kevin Spacey as Lloyd in The Ref (1994)

EMail: rjwate01@*****.louisville.edu
Web : http://www.louisville.edu/~rjwate01/
Message no. 11
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.com>
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs -Reply
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:56:39 -0500
Brian K. Nielsen wrote:
"But here is an interesting thought for you. How do street docs, most of which
are formerly licensed doctors (how they got their license revoked we do not
know) get their drugs. "

In 1996, developing a new drug takes ten years and ten to fifty million dollars a
year, then to actually produce it, you need a large factory (I'm not sure how
much these cost, but they are not cheap)

Sometime between now and 2056, however, some parts of this process will get
much cheaper. Better understanding of cellular processes and perhaps the
human genome project (coupled with truely awesome computer simulation
capabilities) will make the shotgun/trial and error methods of development
obsolete. In addition, once a drug is developed and a strain of bacteria exists
that produces it, all you need to produce the drug is a vat of yummy (for bacteria)
broth and the equipment to separate out the good stuff after the bacteria have
done their work. In 2056, this would be something between a workshop and a
facility. One nerdy biotech, 200-300K nuyen, and a sample of the bacteria
provided by your friendly organized crime source of your choice, and you are in
bussiness as a pirate drug provider. Seattle alone probably has two or three
(makeing 4 or 5 different drugs). Hong Kong probably has 4 or 5 hundred such
labs. Some of these illegal products probably end up in perfecly legal settings
too...

The above paragraph describes the bulk (IMHO) of pharamcutics in 2056, but of
course, as a disclamer, there will be whole catergories of drugs that are either
very difficult or impossible to make via simple biotech. These will be where the
highest profits are, but I would expect that the high profits would also produce a
large incentive for parts of shipments to "fall off trucks".

In any event, if you are a street doc, and you need drugs, go to your local
yakuza/mafia/seulpa ring/triad, and let them know, and in return for services
rendered/a cut of your bussiness/free cyberwear/a stack of cash/all of the above
they can provide.

Double-Domed Mike (who is married to a pharmacutical chemical engineer)
Message no. 12
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:57:48 -0500 (CDT)
On Wed, 26 Jun 1996 briann@*******.com wrote:

> As far as the happy pill, sad pill, mad pill, or whatever mood pill,
> I think they would probably use simsense instead.

Simsense Overrides your vision etc. Can't work while using it.

> Possibly even BTL.

I got the impression BTL required a chipjack, so deckers/skill users had
a much greater 'opportunity' to use. Others need the hardware installed.
In 2XS, the detective used a Cyberdeck to access a BTL, but I don't
recall if he used a Net or a Jack.

> But here is an interesting thought for you. How do street docs, most
> of which are formerly licensed doctors (how they got their license
> revoked we do not know) get their drugs.

Legitimate doctors in the 70s used to sell their prescription pads.
Some Pharmacy employees would sell them for money, (Esp. Bennies)
Samples disappear from Hospitals every day. Nurses get addicted to
drugs, and they can't write prescriptions

> They can't write a
> p{r}escription because they don't have a license. And pharmaceutical
> companies wouldn't even approach a street doc with sample drugs for
> him to try out on his patients. How do street doc's get their drugs?
Legit (friendly) DRs they knew in Med School. I'd also say SHADOW CLINICS
are run by (Shell) Pharm subsidiaries, so the whole 'problem' is null.
tailored Bacteria was a good point someone beat me to.
Failing that, Org. Crime Blackmails a DR into giving them the samples.

Combat Drugs:
Kind of hard to test, aren't they?
Many people who don't have the money for implants would be willing
so sign on for a trial.
Message no. 13
From: wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject: Re: Over the Counter Drugs -Reply
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 22:46:05 -0600
Luc AKA BobW wrote:
>
>Not likely the fringe and shadowrunners are gonna say "I went to an unlicensed
>doctor...er yeah they are typically called chop shops...anyway he tested this
>drug on me that isnt FDA approved without asking my permission.". Corps
>response "We have never had any dealing with unlicensed doctors in anyway and
>the drugs must have been stolen. We did report a shipment of the drugs going
>to a licensed testing lab as being stolen.". Also consider these drugs are
>usually outrageously expensive and the fringe/shadows people are usually more
>than willing to get some treatment even if it involves the use of drugs as
>guinee pigs (remember all the buzz about aids patients willing offering to be
>guinee pigs for new drugs that have as yet to be FDA approved just so that
>they would get some sort of treatment and these people weren't even fringe
>people, just desperate for hope and a cure.).
>

Yeah, people in the shadow community wouldn't call up the Corp to complain.
They would typically spread the word about such and such Street Doc,
Possibly leading to someone taking the matter into their own hands. This
could be in the form of killing the Doc, attacking the Corp or investigating
the situation. I can see the video now:

Doc: I got bad news for you on that last "improvement" in the Trauma patch.

Corp: Yeah, whatever. You got the results for R&D.

Doc: Here. Knock your self out.

Corp: Speaking of that I have a new anesthetic for you to try out...


Independant reporters are the shadow comunities friend. If you give them a
good background for a story they could sell, they will typically take it from
there. OTOH this could be the initiation for a run or two, depending on the
reporters budget (or expected payoff) and his investigative resources, he may
need to hire a team for some "information gathering."

Piatro

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Over the Counter Drugs, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!