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Message no. 1
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Overusing contacts (re: was shadowrun drinking game)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:04:30 -0700
Gurth on -268443600 wrote:
> Robert Nesius said on 13:18/27 Jul 98,...
>
> > Every time the party calls their contacts instead of doing their own
> > legwork, take a drink.
>
> I thought calling your contacts _was_ doing legwork...
>

In general, I would agree with you. However, my players annoyed me this
weekend by overusing their contacts, in my opinion.

The setup: Bobby the Best was murdered - sniper hit. Now one of Bobby's
business associate's is in the line of fire, and he wants to hire the
team to find out who is responsible, and remove the threat. After I fill
in a few more details, the Johnson leaves.

Player 1: "I'm calling my contacts - specifically these two."
Player 2: "I'm calling my contacts - x and y."
Player 3: "I'm calling my contacts - a, b, & c."
Player 4: ....
Player 5: "I'm going to call The Geek (the NPC decker.)"
Player 6: "I think we should go check out Bobby the Best's office.

One and a half hours later, after I've finished getting back to people
with contacts.

Player 1: Hmmm. I'm going to call these other two contacts.
Player 2: I'm going to call The Geek.
Player 3: Hey Player 4, I like your cats here. (IRL)
Player 5: I'm calling some more contacts.
Player 6: I think we should go check out Bobby the Best's office.

1.5 MORE hours later.
Player 1: I'm going to call another contact.
Player 2: I'm going to call yet another contact.
Player 3: Hmmm. I'm going to call our fixer.
Player 4: I'm going to call The Geek.
Player 5:....
Player 6: I think we should go check out Bobby the Best's office.

At this point, I was starting to get seriously annoyed. Their actions
struck me as lazy. By spewing 15 million questions to their contacts,
they were potentially jeapordizing the confidentiality and identity of
their Johnson. They had several clear avenues to investigate, and it
felt like they just wanted to call people until I gave them the
information they needed to put it all together without ever lifting a
finger other than to dial their pocket secretaries. Needless to say,
Karma awards were low.

-Rob
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Overusing contacts (re: was shadowrun drinking game)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:47:06 +0100
Robert Nesius said on 10:04/28 Jul 98,...

> The setup: Bobby the Best was murdered - sniper hit. Now one of Bobby's
> business associate's is in the line of fire, and he wants to hire the
> team to find out who is responsible, and remove the threat. After I fill
> in a few more details, the Johnson leaves.
[snip players calling contacts]

That looks a bit excessive, yeah.

> At this point, I was starting to get seriously annoyed. Their actions
> struck me as lazy. By spewing 15 million questions to their contacts,
> they were potentially jeapordizing the confidentiality and identity of
> their Johnson. They had several clear avenues to investigate, and it
> felt like they just wanted to call people until I gave them the
> information they needed to put it all together without ever lifting a
> finger other than to dial their pocket secretaries. Needless to say,
> Karma awards were low.

Maybe you should have gotten them to move. If they spend that
much time talking to contacts, keep track of how long they're
doing this. If it's a whole day, I'd say that's more than enough
time for the opposition to get a lead on them and try to remove
the PCs from the picture... Can you say "strike team blowing
down the door"?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hanging on to letting go.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Overusing contacts (re: was shadowrun drinking game)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:26:04 EDT
In a message dated 7/28/1998 12:04:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
nesius@******.COM writes:
> Gurth on -268443600 wrote:
> > Robert Nesius said on 13:18/27 Jul 98,...
> > > Every time the party calls their contacts instead of doing their own
> > > legwork, take a drink.
> > I thought calling your contacts _was_ doing legwork...

That all depends on how look at it I suppose.

> In general, I would agree with you. However, my players annoyed me this
> weekend by overusing their contacts, in my opinion.
>
> The setup: Bobby the Best was murdered - sniper hit. Now one of Bobby's
> business associate's is in the line of fire, and he wants to hire the
> team to find out who is responsible, and remove the threat. After I fill
> in a few more details, the Johnson leaves.

Nicely done...

<snipped player's choices of actions>

Now those aren't bad for an initial way to get things started...

> One and a half hours later, after I've finished getting back to people
> with contacts.

Ooo, lots of time loss. Hope they weren't just sitting around sharpening
spurs and polishing guns... ;P

<snipped more PC action descriptions>

Was it a nice cat? (j/k) Anyway, I can see where this would get annoying
quickly. BUT, in all fairness Rob, you could have pointed out to the players
that a lot of the information is probably exchanged between "the streets" in
general, and any more digging is just going to cause trouble by getting even
more rumors started ... "Hey, I heard that such-and-such was looking for stuff
on so-and-so..."

> 1.5 MORE hours later.
<snipped more less-that-colorful PC action descriptions>

> At this point, I was starting to get seriously annoyed. Their actions
> struck me as lazy. By spewing 15 million questions to their contacts,
> they were potentially jeapordizing the confidentiality and identity of
> their Johnson. They had several clear avenues to investigate, and it
> felt like they just wanted to call people until I gave them the
> information they needed to put it all together without ever lifting a
> finger other than to dial their pocket secretaries. Needless to say,
> Karma awards were low.

I think if I were playing, by the time the third round of "I'm gonna call"
started, I would have wanted to change characters to a decker and swipe all
that cred they were willing to burn up and keep it for myself... :)

-K
Message no. 4
From: Mike Chartier <mefron@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Overusing contacts (re: was shadowrun drinking game)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:54:36 -0400
Robert Nesius said:

>In general, I would agree with you. However, my players annoyed me this
>weekend by overusing their contacts, in my opinion.

There are a number of dirty tricks to play on characters that do this. You
can supply them with wrong information (everyone knows how the truth gets
distroted as the rumormill grows). You can kill a contact or two (for
knowing too much). And, if they are not properly compensating their
contacts, the contacts may decide not to be as helpful next time.

Also contacts are people too and sometimes they are not available, or just
not in the mood to deal with the PCs. Having a contact or two be
unavailable on any given day is not unrealistic.

In any event I would have the PCs reputation hurt for revealing too much
before the run was over. Most Johnsons will have (at least a minimal) ear
on the street and in the information they just told some runners comes back
to them they will not be likely to use those runners again (and possibly
worse).

-Mike
Message no. 5
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Overusing contacts (re: was shadowrun drinking game)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:49:54 +0700
> > I thought calling your contacts _was_ doing legwork...

Well..I would agree up to a point..Now in a Investigation..Rarely is
it possible to complete any sort of investigation over the
phone..The phone is a small portion of any investigation however..

> Player 1: "I'm calling my contacts - specifically these two."
> Player 2: "I'm calling my contacts - x and y."
> Player 3: "I'm calling my contacts - a, b, & c."
> Player 4: ....
> Player 5: "I'm going to call The Geek (the NPC decker.)"
> Player 6: "I think we should go check out Bobby the Best's office.

As soon as I heard this..I would have determined that things would
have to be kicked inthre pants a little..NPCs do not sit by the phone
waiting for the PCs to call them..Now some will always be a little
easier to catch on the phone due to nature of the Contact [a Corp
Secretary for example]. However, This does not mean that the NPCs has
the time or the inclintion to speak to the character especially over
the phone..I use the following techniques to give things the needed
push:

-You have reached the Alverez residence. Please, leave a messge at
the tone.
-Hey man, how are you. I haven't seen you in a long time. We will
have to get a SoyBeer or somethin'. Nah man not over the phone. You
know these things hear more than they want us ta thin. Nah, meet me
at Calahans. Oh around 1800 [current time 0600] We can talk there.
-Nope haven't heard a thing about that. Well I'm kinda busy I gotta
go.
-I though I told you never to call me here. Your gonna get me fired.
Call me when I get off. Goodbye.
-Look man you don't call in forever and when
you want somethin' suddenly I'm your dearest chummer..Get
Fragged..click...

The first two Are my favs..or variations thereof..This gives the PCs
the call they want and puts them off at the same time..The PCs
usually end up checking their messages off and on but it gets them
off of the phone in fairly short order..Adn keep in mind NPCs like
the Corp Secretary are not about to gossip with some PC over the
company phone..Especially not if they are asking about the corp they
work for...As for NPCs with shadow jobs..they either always screen
their calls or never talk beyond setting up a meeting time..They
don't like the possiblity of getting overheard on the phone..

> ....... By spewing 15 million questions to their contacts,
> they were potentially jeapordizing the confidentiality and identity of
> their Johnson.

This is a very good point which I would have pointed out to the
players - I like to make lots of preception test..so I would have
thrown one out at about the first millionth question ..and on a 4 or
better I would have made this particular point..

I suggest using the upkeep rules in the companion..these seem to give
the PCs a chance to give their contacts more depth..

> Needless to say,
> Karma awards were low.

They got karma???? What for..sounds like the whole gaming session was
a bust..personally I perfcr to only giver out karma at the resolution
of an adventure...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Message no. 6
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Overusing contacts (re: was shadowrun drinking game)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:56:04 -0700
K is the Symbol on -268446040 wrote:
> In a message dated 7/28/1998 12:04:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> nesius@******.COM writes:
> <snipped player's choices of actions>
>
> Now those aren't bad for an initial way to get things started...
>
> > One and a half hours later, after I've finished getting back to people
> > with contacts.
>
> Ooo, lots of time loss. Hope they weren't just sitting around sharpening
> spurs and polishing guns... ;P

Yeah. Partly due to volume of questions asked. Partly due to them asking
for things I hadn't planned for so I had to come up with some stuff on
the fly. So, partly my fault.

> Was it a nice cat? (j/k) Anyway, I can see where this would get annoying
> quickly. BUT, in all fairness Rob, you could have pointed out to the players
> that a lot of the information is probably exchanged between "the streets"
in
> general, and any more digging is just going to cause trouble by getting even
> more rumors started ... "Hey, I heard that such-and-such was looking for stuff
> on so-and-so..."
>
> > 1.5 MORE hours later.
> <snipped more less-that-colorful PC action descriptions>
>
> I think if I were playing, by the time the third round of "I'm gonna call"
> started, I would have wanted to change characters to a decker and swipe all
> that cred they were willing to burn up and keep it for myself... :)
>

The large volume of responses was "kick the team in the ass" if you have
to. I agree, I should have found a way to kick the team into motion,
literally and figuratively. ;) This is only the ninth shadowrun I've GM'd,
(Played for years, never gm'd though. :), so my "game management" skills
are still growing. A lot of topics which have been through the list several
times are new issues for me. ie: How to deal with overusing
contacts, maintaining contacts, games in slow motion... Creating
initiate groups, determining a consistant model for law enforcement and
security that blends in with the gameworld as I see it.

Thanks everyone for their thoughts.

-Rob
Message no. 7
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Overusing contacts (re: was shadowrun drinking game)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:45:37 +0700
>...... This is only the ninth shadowrun I've GM'd,
> (Played for years, never gm'd though.

Ahh..welcome to the other side [EG]....

> :), so my "game management" skills
> are still growing.

Then I would say you off to a good start..you saw something
wrong..didn't quite know how to fix it at the time..but..you came and
asked how..Means you care about what you are doing..in my book that
is a requirement to be a good GM...

>..... Creating
> initiate groups,

My advice..don't..at least not for some time..not until you have your
GM legs anyway...

>determining a consistant model for law enforcement and
> security that blends in with the gameworld as I see it.

hmm...that is a bit more complex..but one thing..remember the
Star..or a security guard..they are all people too..they make
exceptions and mistakes..sometimes all they want is to go home at the
end of their shift...

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD

Further Reading

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