| From: | K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: PAD's and intiation/ skill dice (Necessarily LONG) |
| Date: | Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:35:20 EDT |
evamarie@**********.net writes:
> Poppycock- do the math. For a realistic example, I'll assume you
> are a group memeber, looking to boost armed combat (at .5 per, no geas,
> its "average" in cost), and use no ordeals (chuh, RIGHT). For grades
> 0-2, you spend 12+16+14 karma, for 42 total to get 4 armed combat dice
Okay, freeze right there. I am NOT conferring this conversation to the
existing rules for such. And quit snipping and quoting irrelevant material.
I am referring to the original suggestion of .75 magic points for a "bonus die
to sorcery" that a PAD might get with this optional house rule development. I
am NOT referring to any other form of die that a PAD can obtain as found
within the any of the Sourcebooks as they currently stand.
Now if I actually do look at the mathematics using the beginning points a PAD
would use, then yes, they can get 6 bonus dice to their sorcery. (6 dice
times .75 per die equates to 4.5 points used as such). However, PAD can't
engage in Sorcery Combat without Astral Perception. Neither can a
PhysMagician according to the standing rules either. At least not without
first purchasing Astral Perception (which is another 2 points spent of
course). Also, a PhysMagician must reserve 1 point of his/her magical
attribute for their "spellcasting magician's side".
So no, a beginning PAD or PhysMagician isn't going to be able to purchase the
proposed 6 bonus dice and expect to be able to actually do anything with 'em
in the form of Sorcery Combat. A PhysMagician wouldn't mind the bonus of 6
dice to his/her Magic Pool, sure. That much I do consent.
> . To raise armed combat to 10 (admitedly, slightly better, as you can
> then spend more than 6 combat pool) would cost 14+16+18+20 karma, or 68
> total. OUCH.
I guess you are referring to raising the skill from 6 to 10 then??? I guess
you were automatically making an assumption of a "Group" reduction in karma
then??? Lots of presumption there if you ask me.
Remember, the projected range of costs is going to be anywhere from 9 points
to 18 points for Grade 0 (and if you want that Group reduction benefit, there
is an additional 3 points for even joining the group itself, at least here
there is). IF the guy/gal is studying alone, and does an ordeal for every
grade, then s/he is going to have to pay 15 points, then 17, then 20, then 22,
and then finally 25 points, for a total of 99 points just to get that Grade 4,
which s/he actually doesn't need to do (grade 3 (74 points) would allow the
points necessary to buy the dice desired for this proposed ability).
BUT you are then talking about training. I am not sure I would be able to
guess which kind of training is actually more difficult.
Metaplanar/Initiation Advancing training, or just simply raising your skill
from a "6" to a "10". Remember, that is 4 sets of ordeals minimum
(grade 0 -
3) which incurs the time requirements (and possibly resources) to perform
such, IN ADDITION, to the training time in general.
IF the "Group" reduction is going to be performed, then there is an additional
thing that would have to be remembered. Timing in general. As in, you need
other members of the group to train with if you are going to get the group
reduction. Can you imagine the amount of planning necessary to get a group of
magicians together (Sorry, I can't make it, alembics on the burner....I would
love to, but I'm performing a Ritual of Ostracism on a friends'
husband...TONIGHT!?! Are you nuts? I have a date with my wife and kids to see
Terminator-10)...I think you get the point. And sure, if Fraternity is one of
the group's strictures, the guy could use it, but IMO, that would sorely tick
off the other members of the group as the guy is just wanting help to train
(Oh yeah sure, here, we can help hold your hand while you advance and we loose
whatever we had going...). Most of the players here have discovered that
"Group" benefits work more than just one way.
Also, please remember that just because a PAD has the bonus dice, does NOT
mean that s/he can use them all. It is still limited to the Skill Base, IIRC.
As it stands in the books, that is the limit to the dice usage for a single
action anyway. So if it costs more on one end (raising the skill), so
fragging be it. That is likely how it is supposed to be.
> Intitiation is a GOOD way to boost the cheaper skill dice. With
> grade 0 out of the way and ordeals on your higher grades, plus maybe a
> geas, even getting firearms dice can be much cheaper than raising the
> skill, espacially for very high levels. On the other hand, its the ONLY
> smart way to raise stealth or atheletics.
Oh yeah, boosting the simpler dice and evading the original topic concerning
the "Improved Sorcery Skill dice" (which IMO, were it allowable, would cost as
much as Firearms and Gunnery dice in any case), then yeah, I do 1,000% agree
with you. But all you are effectively doing is improving the associated dice
pools with the skill(s) in question, so I don't ultimately care how many dice
you have if your skill(s) are no higher than a "6" anyway.
> So much for adept intiation being a rip-off, eh?
Nope, IMO, it isn't the most balanced of trade-offs yet. Yeah, its nice, but
it has it's limits. And as a GM, remembering and enforcing those limits is
part of what makes one a "GM" in the first place. No, retract that. It is
part of what makes a "GOOD GM" in the first place. Reminding them of the
limits, and helping them make the challenge of exceeding them. And unless you
play First Ed., which has no limits to the non-sorcery related tests, you are
probably going to want to reconsider how much of anything a PAD or a
PhysMagician (which doesn't work well in First Ed. rules btw) is going to
develop.
-K
