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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:00:24 -0600
I just had a thought about something I've never seen rules for: pain
without damage.

For example, have you ever hit your knee on a hard corner? Or stubbed
your toe? Or caught your finger in the door?

When I've done this it hurt like hell for a few minutes (I would bet
that any target numbers would've been at +3 the times I've caught my
knee on the desk) but there was no physical damage, and the pain
subsided within a few minutes (not the hour that recovering from a
Light Stun would take). So, I was trying to think of a way to reflect
pain without damage.

If you want to inflict pain on your players it's as simple as assigning
a +1 to +3 Pain modifier to their target numbers based on the Level of
Pain (Light, Medium, or Serious), you be the judge. The ammount of
time the pain lasts is based on the Level of Pain.

Pain Level Recovery Time
Serious 6 Minutes
Moderate 3 Minutes
Light 1 Minute

The recovery time can be reduced by making a Willpower test vs a 4.

Recovery is done in stages. Serious Pain reduces to Moderate Pain,
Moderate to Light, Light to none.

A character with a Willpower of 4 hits his head the corner of the
cupboard door (it's early Monday morning :) This one's a stinger and
the GM rules that it's Serious Pain. The character makes a
Willpower(4) test and gets two successes. The Serious Pain lasts for 3
minutes (during which he cusses up a storm) and drops down to Moderate
Pain. The Moderate Pain lasts for a minute and a half (during which he
slams the cupboard door a couple of times) and drops down to Light
Pain. The character grumbles as he pours milk on his cereal. 30
seconds later it's all over with (except for the bad mood the character
is now in).

Just a thought.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 2
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:55:58 +1000
>For example, have you ever hit your knee on a hard corner? Or stubbed
>your toe? Or caught your finger in the door?
>
>When I've done this it hurt like hell for a few minutes (I would bet
>that any target numbers would've been at +3 the times I've caught my
>knee on the desk) but there was no physical damage, and the pain
>subsided within a few minutes (not the hour that recovering from a
>Light Stun would take). So, I was trying to think of a way to reflect
>pain without damage.
>
>If you want to inflict pain on your players it's as simple as assigning
>a +1 to +3 Pain modifier to their target numbers based on the Level of
>Pain (Light, Medium, or Serious), you be the judge. The ammount of
>time the pain lasts is based on the Level of Pain.
>
>Pain Level Recovery Time
> Serious 6 Minutes
> Moderate 3 Minutes
> Light 1 Minute
>
>The recovery time can be reduced by making a Willpower test vs a 4.
>
>Recovery is done in stages. Serious Pain reduces to Moderate Pain,
>Moderate to Light, Light to none.
>
>A character with a Willpower of 4 hits his head the corner of the
>cupboard door (it's early Monday morning :) This one's a stinger and
>the GM rules that it's Serious Pain. The character makes a
>Willpower(4) test and gets two successes. The Serious Pain lasts for 3
>minutes (during which he cusses up a storm) and drops down to Moderate
>Pain. The Moderate Pain lasts for a minute and a half (during which he
>slams the cupboard door a couple of times) and drops down to Light
>Pain. The character grumbles as he pours milk on his cereal. 30
>seconds later it's all over with (except for the bad mood the character
>is now in).
>
>Just a thought.

Nice idea. Now all we need are some decent rules for bleeding to death
once injured and we're set.


- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 3
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:14:16 EDT
In a message dated 10/14/98 11:00:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

>
> Pain Level Recovery Time
> Serious 6 Minutes
> Moderate 3 Minutes
> Light 1 Minute
>
> The recovery time can be reduced by making a Willpower test vs a 4.
>
> Recovery is done in stages. Serious Pain reduces to Moderate Pain,
> Moderate to Light, Light to none.
>
I like it, nice and simple, though it will probably be rarely used. I would
also add a damage overflow into Stun or such, for those really bad torture
sessions. The target number for pain would also apply to a willpower roll to
resist giving knowledge under torture.
Message no. 4
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:20:21 -0400
David Buehrer wrote:
> [Re: stubbing toes, slamming fingers in doors]
>
> When I've done this it hurt like hell for a few minutes (I would bet
> that any target numbers would've been at +3 the times I've caught my
> knee on the desk) but there was no physical damage, and the pain
> subsided within a few minutes (not the hour that recovering from a
> Light Stun would take). So, I was trying to think of a way to reflect
> pain without damage.

Recovering from Light Stun typically takes much less than an hour, if
you've got a decent Body and/or Willpower and don't roll many 1's. The
hour is just the BASE time. The TN to reduce it is 2.


> If you want to inflict pain on your players it's as simple as assigning
> a +1 to +3 Pain modifier to their target numbers based on the Level of
> Pain (Light, Medium, or Serious), you be the judge. [ . . . ]

Nice idea in principle, but I really don't see what these rules do except
reimplement Stun with shortened recovery times. As such I'm probably be
likely to make case-by-case alterations on Stun instead. (But then, I
don't make my players roll to see if the PC's hit any cabinet doors,
either.) >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 5
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:05:09 -0400
On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, David Buehrer wrote:

<snip pain rules>

I like them, but I'm having difficulty figuring out where to apply
them. When would these 'pain' modifiers come to use?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 6
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:34:22 EDT
In a message dated 10/14/98 2:56:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

> I like them, but I'm having difficulty figuring out where to apply
> them. When would these 'pain' modifiers come to use?

In situations where the player does something like jump over a fence and hurt
himself superfically during a run. The rules are perfect for those times you
want to give the player an injury but just don't feel justified for a lengthly
recovery.

-Bandit
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:12:35 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, M. Sean Martinez wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 10/14/98 2:56:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
/ fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:
/
/ > I like them, but I'm having difficulty figuring out where to apply
/ > them. When would these 'pain' modifiers come to use?
/
/ In situations where the player does something like jump over a fence and hurt
/ himself superfically during a run. The rules are perfect for those times you
/ want to give the player an injury but just don't feel justified for a lengthly
/ recovery.

Yep. Basically it's for those situations when something bizarre or
silly happens that should be painful, yet not cause a wound, or for
comic releif when the PCs do something stupid and you don't want to
cause a lot of damage ("I tell the woman holding the frying pan that I
just want to kill her husband." "She wacks you on the head, causing
Serious Pain.")

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 8
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:22:27 -0400
David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Yep. Basically it's for those situations when something bizarre or
> silly happens that should be painful, yet not cause a wound, or for
> comic releif when the PCs do something stupid and you don't want to
> cause a lot of damage ("I tell the woman holding the frying pan that I
> just want to kill her husband." "She wacks you on the head, causing
> Serious Pain.")

This still sounds like Stun damage to me.. These sorts of effects should
realistically last hours, not minutes. Especially if you're going to use
frying pans on the head as your example. ("Ooh, THAT'S gonna leave a
lump...")


Have Fun, (would Dikoted cooking surfaces do more damage?)
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:35:48 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Steve Eley wrote:
/
/ David Buehrer wrote:
/ >
/ > Yep. Basically it's for those situations when something bizarre or
/ > silly happens that should be painful, yet not cause a wound, or for
/ > comic releif when the PCs do something stupid and you don't want to
/ > cause a lot of damage ("I tell the woman holding the frying pan that I
/ > just want to kill her husband." "She wacks you on the head, causing
/ > Serious Pain.")
/
/ This still sounds like Stun damage to me.. These sorts of effects should
/ realistically last hours, not minutes. Especially if you're going to use
/ frying pans on the head as your example. ("Ooh, THAT'S gonna leave a
/ lump...")

Note, I said for *comic relief* :)

/ (would Dikoted cooking surfaces do more damage?)

Oh, that would definitely increase the pain to Deadly ;)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 10
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:49:07 +0200
And so it came to happen that Fixer wrote:
----------
> On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, David Buehrer wrote:
>
> <snip pain rules>
>
> I like them, but I'm having difficulty figuring out where to
apply
> them. When would these 'pain' modifiers come to use?

"So Mr. Bolognese, you certainly do not want to share with our employer the
recipe for that nice pasta? Are you that sure of it? Hm, I see. Well I
truly do not want to hurt you, but as you insist... Igor, slap Mr.
Bolognese a bit, please."
"IGOR slap-ping! Igor slapping real ni-ze!"
SLAPP
"So you see, Mr. Bolognese, that did hurt you, didn't it? So, are we now in
for some conversation about that recipe, or... Ah, I understand...Igor,
would you please?"
SLAAPP
"Ah, thats the tune I like, thank you kindly, Mr. Bolognese. That wasn't
that difficult, wasn't it? My Employer will be gratefull, thank you."

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 11
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:38:23 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Steve Eley wrote:
/
/ David Buehrer wrote:
/ > [Re: stubbing toes, slamming fingers in doors]
/ >
/ > When I've done this it hurt like hell for a few minutes (I would bet
/ > that any target numbers would've been at +3 the times I've caught my
/ > knee on the desk) but there was no physical damage, and the pain
/ > subsided within a few minutes (not the hour that recovering from a
/ > Light Stun would take). So, I was trying to think of a way to reflect
/ > pain without damage.
/
/ Recovering from Light Stun typically takes much less than an hour, if
/ you've got a decent Body and/or Willpower and don't roll many 1's. The
/ hour is just the BASE time. The TN to reduce it is 2.

Let's say I've got a Body of 4. If I roll four successes the pain from
a light stun will last 15 minutes. The kind of pain I'm talking about
doesn't work that way. I'm just trying to come up with a simple set of
rules to reflect that :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 12
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:17:21 EDT
In a message dated 10/14/1998 1:56:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

> <snip pain rules>
>
> I like them, but I'm having difficulty figuring out where to apply
> them. When would these 'pain' modifiers come to use?
>
How about during Interrogation and their related techniques???

-K
Message no. 13
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:20:43 EDT
In a message dated 10/14/1998 3:23:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
sfeley@***.NET writes:

>
> Have Fun, (would Dikoted cooking surfaces do more damage?)
> - Steve Eley
> sfeley@***.net

Possibly, and they'd leave no trace of the stickier traces left in the messier
situations ... ;)

-K
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Pain
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:53:28 +0200
According to Steve Eley, at 16:22 on 14 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> This still sounds like Stun damage to me.. These sorts of effects should
> realistically last hours, not minutes. Especially if you're going to use
> frying pans on the head as your example. ("Ooh, THAT'S gonna leave a
> lump...")

You obviously don't get Shooting Stars on TV :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

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