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Message no. 1
From: Loki <gamemstr@********.COM>
Subject: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:22:17 -0700
We had a couple of unique questions come up in last nite's gaming session,
and I wanted to bring them to the list for opinions...

During a fight with some elven physads and a mage, Caric's character was
hit by a Paralyze spell. The description of Paralyze according to
Awakenings is:

The Paralyze spell overrides and paralyzes all of a subject's
voluntary muscles (yes, the target can still breathe), rendering the
subject unable to move or speak while the spell is sustained. To resist the
spells effects, the subject can make a Willpower Test each round against a
target number equal to the spell's force. If any of the subject's Willpower
Tests yield more successes than the caster's Spell Test successes, the
Paralyze spell is broken.
Cyberware may continue to work as long as it can function
independantly of the body's function, such as a datajack, dermal plating,
or tactical computer.

The questions that came up were:

1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the effects
of the spell?

2. On one of his initiative rounds Caric's character beat the mage's Spell
Test successes, and freed himself from the paralyzation. Would this have
taken Caric's whole combat phase?

At the time I ruled as follows:

1. No, he couldn't project. In my mind, doing so requires more than just
involuntary body function...something like meditative breathing, muscle
relaxtion, entering a zen like state.

2. No, it would be more along the lines of a free action to shake it off. I
compared it to shaking the effects of other spells like Agonizing Pain, or
Control Thoughts.

Other GM/Player thoughts???

@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
Message no. 2
From: Jonathan Wright <jwrigh01@********.CA>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:00:30 -0400
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Loki wrote:

> We had a couple of unique questions come up in last nite's gaming session,
> and I wanted to bring them to the list for opinions...
>
> During a fight with some elven physads and a mage, Caric's character was
> hit by a Paralyze spell. The description of Paralyze according to
> Awakenings is:
>
> The Paralyze spell overrides and paralyzes all of a subject's
> voluntary muscles (yes, the target can still breathe), rendering the
> subject unable to move or speak while the spell is sustained. To resist the
> spells effects, the subject can make a Willpower Test each round against a
> target number equal to the spell's force. If any of the subject's Willpower
> Tests yield more successes than the caster's Spell Test successes, the
> Paralyze spell is broken.
> Cyberware may continue to work as long as it can function
> independantly of the body's function, such as a datajack, dermal plating,
> or tactical computer.
>
> The questions that came up were:
>
> 1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the effects
> of the spell?
>
> 2. On one of his initiative rounds Caric's character beat the mage's Spell
> Test successes, and freed himself from the paralyzation. Would this have
> taken Caric's whole combat phase?

1) I don't see why he couldn't project, it's considered a Complex Action
to do so, obviously that couldn't require too much physical preparation.
In fact, this might be beneficial, as the mage would remain frozen in
whatever position he was Paralyzed in instead of slumping unconscious to
the ground. (Come to think of it that would be kind of nifty in some
circumstances.)

2) I'd say it's a simple action, much like getting up. If one was
paralyzed by magic you'd be fighting like hell to move your muscles
(especially in the company of nasties firing automatic weapons at your
general vicinity). As so as you broke the spell you'd begin thrashing
around (like you were attempting to up until the point where the spell
broke). Getting yourself under control again would take a bit of action
on your part during the combat phase.

This has given me an idea though about concealing your projection. Get
another mage to Paralyze and then project. ("Whaddya mean he's
projecting, he's _standing_ over there by the door!")

Jon Wright
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:56:29 -0400
Loki Wrote:

<Snip>

> 1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the
effects
> of the spell?

I would say "yes". I don't see it as anything more than a matter of will
to project. Thus, a mage could leave the physical portion of his being
while paralyzed.

> 2. On one of his initiative rounds Caric's character beat the mage's
Spell
> Test successes, and freed himself from the paralyzation. Would this have
> taken Caric's whole combat phase?

I would say it takes a complex action to break free.

<Snip>

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:15:46 +1000
> 1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the effects
> of the spell?

I'd say yes. I'd also say yes to, say, a quadriplegic mage on a
ventilator entering astral projection. To me it's an effort of will, not
body.

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:07:40 GMT
Loki (gamemstr@********.COM) wrote:
: We had a couple of unique questions come up in last nite's gaming session,
: and I wanted to bring them to the list for opinions...

*grin* I know those kinds of situations... ;-)

: Other GM/Player thoughts???

I am sorry, but I think you were wrong this time. Paralyze is just not
a spell to take out mages (blindness is MUCH more effective) - the
spell does not affect the mind at all - and that is what the mage
basically needs to use his astral abilities. So I'd say yes, he could
have projected -although I assume he didn't see the guy casting that
spell upon him, because otherwise I'd say he could have just fried him
for being so stupid...

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.hanse.de |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 http://www.on-line.de/~steffen.lassahn/greve/ |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 6
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:53:46 +0200
>I am sorry, but I think you were wrong this time. Paralyze is just not
>a spell to take out mages (blindness is MUCH more effective) - the
>spell does not affect the mind at all - and that is what the mage
>basically needs to use his astral abilities. So I'd say yes, he could
>have projected -although I assume he didn't see the guy casting that
>spell upon him, because otherwise I'd say he could have just fried him
>for being so stupid...

About spellcasting while paralyzed, btw...

In the description about 'noticing spellcasting' it states that it assumes
the tn to notice spellcasting is (magic rating - force) *2. What is noticed
is, if i remember correctly, the minor gesticulations, movements, words that
has to be used to cast the spell. This implies that the mage has to do
*SOMETHING* more than just look at the target to cast the spell. Unless
the mage has a geas, though, that 'something' isn't restricting enough that
it'd be impossible to do with tied hands, for instance, but wouldn't
paralyzation be enough?

No, I don't have the rulebook here, so I might be wrong, but it's a thought
at least. (Someone else said that is the chant of someone about to put
their foot in their mouth... probably.).

Rune Fostervoll, runefo@***.uio.no
----------------------------------
ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
-Ambrose Bierce
Message no. 7
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:18:01 +1000
> About spellcasting while paralyzed, btw...
>
> In the description about 'noticing spellcasting' it states that it assumes
> the tn to notice spellcasting is (magic rating - force) *2. What is noticed
> is, if i remember correctly, the minor gesticulations, movements, words that
> has to be used to cast the spell. This implies that the mage has to do
> *SOMETHING* more than just look at the target to cast the spell. Unless

This came up on the list a while ago. IIRC, the decision was that that
TN was to notice the "astral ripples" the spell made before it hit you,
NOT to notice any gesturing on part of the mage. Apart from Gesture
geasa, I don't think there's anything in the rulebooks that says a mage
must make any movements or say anything while casting.


Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:47:29 +0100
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Georg Greve wrote:

> basically needs to use his astral abilities. So I'd say yes, he could
> have projected -although I assume he didn't see the guy casting that
> spell upon him, because otherwise I'd say he could have just fried him
> for being so stupid...

I wouldn't say it was stupid to cast a Paralyse spell on a mage, if the
mage didn't see him (his back was to teh caster) then it prevents the
mage turning around and getting LOS to the caster (no return fire). And
even if he was seen he could just duck out of sight once he has cast the
spell (movement) leaving the mage standing in teh middle of teh
battlefield ready to be eaten up by all that cross fire. -1 TN Stationary
target, no combat pool to 'dodge', no getting behind cover etc.

The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 9
From: Gossamer <jrsnyder@********.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:13:58 -0500
[snip]
>1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the effects
>of the spell?
>
>2. On one of his initiative rounds Caric's character beat the mage's Spell
>Test successes, and freed himself from the paralyzation. Would this have
>taken Caric's whole combat phase?
>
>At the time I ruled as follows:

[snip]

Wow, that's cool. I would have ruled exactly the opposite of you
although I find no fault with the way you did rule. I thought
you gave a very balanced ruling.

I would have allowed a magickal type character to astrally project
because I feel that enough of a meditative state can be had while
under this spell's influence. I mean, in SR it only takes a
complex action to leave your body, and if you want to say that
that involves one deep breath and an exhale to relax, that's fine
because the Paralyze spell states that breathing is not cut off.

I would also have ruled that to shake off the spell would have
taken a complex action. My reason is that I see this type of
thing like actually fighting the spell. And since it says you
can try once per phase, I say it's a complex action.

Again, my reasons for ruling my way are, I feel, no more valid
than your rulings, and I think you were fair. I would have done
it my way.

Be well,

Gossamer
Message no. 10
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:30:16 -0400
Loki once dared to write,

>1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the effects
>of the spell?

If a Decker can still deck then a mage can astrally project. Now
that unfortunately lead back to the grounding issue. Without an active
focus or a dual natured being there the projecting mage can pretty much
just watch.

>2. On one of his initiative rounds Caric's character beat the mage's Spell
>Test successes, and freed himself from the paralyzation. Would this have
>taken Caric's whole combat phase?
Nope. It would just be like making the test when it was first cast.
You don't penalize the target when the spell doesn't work now do you.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 11
From: Jonathan Wright <jwrigh01@********.CA>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:40:06 -0400
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Rune Fostervoll wrote:

> >I am sorry, but I think you were wrong this time. Paralyze is just not
> >a spell to take out mages (blindness is MUCH more effective) - the
> >spell does not affect the mind at all - and that is what the mage
> >basically needs to use his astral abilities. So I'd say yes, he could
> >have projected -although I assume he didn't see the guy casting that
> >spell upon him, because otherwise I'd say he could have just fried him
> >for being so stupid...
>
> About spellcasting while paralyzed, btw...
>
> In the description about 'noticing spellcasting' it states that it assumes
> the tn to notice spellcasting is (magic rating - force) *2. What is noticed
> is, if i remember correctly, the minor gesticulations, movements, words that
> has to be used to cast the spell. This implies that the mage has to do
> *SOMETHING* more than just look at the target to cast the spell. Unless
> the mage has a geas, though, that 'something' isn't restricting enough that
> it'd be impossible to do with tied hands, for instance, but wouldn't
> paralyzation be enough?

This notice spell casting roll is to see the faint physical aura of a high
force spell (or a low force spell being poorly slung by a burnt-out mage)
as it is cast and grounds out into the target. A mage with no geas can
literally cast a spell merely be summoning his/her will and synching the
auras. The target is suddenly hit by a a mana bolt (or what have you) and
the mage is just sitting quietly in the corner. The only hope of tracing
the spell if your a mundane is to catch a glimpse of the astral aura as it
travels from the caster to the target.

Jon Wright
Message no. 12
From: Benjamin Pflugmann
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:10:15 +0100
> This has given me an idea though about concealing your projection. Get
> another mage to Paralyze and then project. ("Whaddya mean he's
> projecting, he's _standing_ over there by the door!")

Hm. I do not know the spell description, but as far as I understand the
spell freezes all your "normal" muscles? So you would fall and NOT stand any
longer. Ever tried to stand without using your muscles to balance? :-)

But if you are with your back to a wall and your feets are pushed against
the ground (like a V upside down), you should not fall.

Bye,

Benjamin.


--
pfb08188@*****.physik.uni-regensburg.de
benjamin@*****.leibniz.in-passau.de
Message no. 13
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:59:52 -0500
Date: 20 Apr 97 Time: 18:22
Subject: Paralyze and Projection

TO: Loki

> 1. No, he couldn't project. In my mind, doing so requires more than
> just involuntary body function...something like meditative
> breathing, muscle relaxtion, entering a zen like state.
>
> 2. No, it would be more along the lines of a free action to shake it
> off. I compared it to shaking the effects of other spells like
> Agonizing Pain, or Control Thoughts.

I don't think I'd have gone with you on either account.

The Magi of the sixth world being so accustomed to that astral input,
I wouldn't think it'd take a lot to be able to sense or visit the
astral.

On the second thing, since the subject of the spell is only able to
make one roll per round, rather than one per action phase, I would
rule that shaking off the effect takes the whole round.

Just my .02 and all. :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Thought for the day:
Communist (n): one who has given up all hope
of becoming a Capitalist.
Message no. 14
From: Benjamin Pflugmann
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:14:57 +0100
> About spellcasting while paralyzed, btw...
>
> In the description about 'noticing spellcasting' it states that it assumes
> the tn to notice spellcasting is (magic rating - force) *2. What is noticed
> is, if i remember correctly, the minor gesticulations, movements, words that
> has to be used to cast the spell. This implies that the mage has to do
> *SOMETHING* more than just look at the target to cast the spell. Unless
> the mage has a geas, though, that 'something' isn't restricting enough that
> it'd be impossible to do with tied hands, for instance, but wouldn't
> paralyzation be enough?

I understand it as: The mage's movements (of bady and face) when he
concentrates on that spell. You just have difficulties in trying to look
like doing nothing while thinking (concentrating) on something else.

> No, I don't have the rulebook here, so I might be wrong, but it's a thought
> at least. (Someone else said that is the chant of someone about to put
> their foot in their mouth... probably.).
>
> Rune Fostervoll, runefo@***.uio.no
> ----------------------------------
> ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
> -Ambrose Bierce
>

Bye,

Benjamin.

--
pfb08188@*****.physik.uni-regensburg.de
benjamin@*****.leibniz.in-passau.de
Message no. 15
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:57:00 MST
MC23 said:
> If a Decker can still deck then a mage can astrally project. Now
>that unfortunately lead back to the grounding issue. Without an active
>focus or a dual natured being there the projecting mage can pretty much
>just watch.

Couldn't he attack the spell that is paralyzing him? Or, if he is an
initiate, dispel it?

Rune Fostervoll said:
> In the description about 'noticing spellcasting' it states that it assumes
> the tn to notice spellcasting is (magic rating - force) *2. What is
noticed
> is, if i remember correctly, the minor gesticulations, movements, words
that
> has to be used to cast the spell. This implies that the mage has to do
> *SOMETHING* more than just look at the target to cast the spell. Unless
> the mage has a geas, though, that 'something' isn't restricting enough
that
> it'd be impossible to do with tied hands, for instance, but wouldn't
> paralyzation be enough?

Do the noticing spellcasting rules stem from the need of verbal or somatic
components, or are they just side-effects of the concentration involved?
You don't need to speak or gesture to astrally percieve, but I would rule
that a perceptive mundane might notice you are distracted. Not because they
can tell you are astrally percieving, but that you are distracted. I would
make a similar ruling if a sammy was listening to a headphone conversation.
Generally, the bigger the distraction modifier (+2? for aura reading), the
easier it is to notice.

Someone else mentioned that maybe it's the spell energy itself that could be
spotted, like noticing an spirit present only in astral space. That could
work, too. But that would mean they could percieve sustained spells as
well, which I would say they couldn't.

Georg said:
>Paralyze is just not
>a spell to take out mages (blindness is MUCH more effective) - the
>spell does not affect the mind at all - and that is what the mage
>basically needs to use his astral abilities.

Does a blindness spell affect a magician's astral sight? I didn't think it
would. I always thought that you see astral space with your astral self.
There was an adventure (Eye Witness) that had a mage who gouged his own
eyes out, but could still astrally percieve. I assume the blindness spell
is an illusion, and illusions don't work in the astral plane.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 16
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:32:51 -0700
> I am sorry, but I think you were wrong this time. Paralyze is just not
> a spell to take out mages (blindness is MUCH more effective) - the
> spell does not affect the mind at all - and that is what the mage
> basically needs to use his astral abilities. So I'd say yes, he could
> have projected -although I assume he didn't see the guy casting that
> spell upon him, because otherwise I'd say he could have just fried him
> for being so stupid...

Oh I could see him alright, but he made my character look like a total
chump in the magic dept. (which he is, but this guy was/is GOOD) I just
wanted to fight the spell as it had myself and our other best gunman down
on the ground (we had taken out all the other opposition accept the mage
which should testify to his nastyness)

-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 17
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:15:25 -0700
> Loki once dared to write,
>
> >1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the
effects
> >of the spell?
>
> If a Decker can still deck then a mage can astrally project. Now
> that unfortunately lead back to the grounding issue. Without an active
> focus or a dual natured being there the projecting mage can pretty much
> just watch.

Or fight the spell that is being sustained on him keeping him paralyzed.

-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 18
From: Peter Andersen <andersep@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:43:27 -0700
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In the same vein, in my last session a player attempted to use the =
X-Ray Vision spell (from Awakenings) to see through smoke what was =
filling the cabbin of an airplane. The spell description makes refrence =
to the spell successes determining the barier rating that the caster can =
see through.

My problem: What's the barrier rating of smoke?

This may be a little strange but it also has effect on targets such as =
trying to see through a curtain covering a door way, a tarp over an =
object, seeing through a coat to find if someone has concealed weapons, =
etc.

Since there was nothing to be discovered by using the spell, I =
recomended the player not cast it and wait until some solution has been =
found to the question.

Any ideas?


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AABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAALABKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMA
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AA00/TcAABKH

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4E75.0D18CAC0--
Message no. 19
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:26:04 -0700
---Shaun Sides wrote:
>
> The Magi of the sixth world being so accustomed to that astral input,
> I wouldn't think it'd take a lot to be able to sense or visit the
> astral.
>
> On the second thing, since the subject of the spell is only able to
> make one roll per round, rather than one per action phase, I would
> rule that shaking off the effect takes the whole round.

Quite a few have shared the same opinion, and the explanations from
you guys have been maiking sense. I think I'm inclined to move into
the same camp as well.

Next time the situation should arise, Astral projection will be
allowed while under the effects of the spell. However, physically
fighting or shaking off the hold of the spell would encmopass an
entire complex action.

Thanx for all the input.

==
@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/


_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 20
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:45:05 -0700
---The Digital Mage wrote:
>
> On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Georg Greve wrote:
>
> > basically needs to use his astral abilities. So I'd say yes, he
could
> > have projected -although I assume he didn't see the guy casting
that
> > spell upon him, because otherwise I'd say he could have just fried
him
> > for being so stupid...

My, aren't we cocky. ;o)

He saw the mage, but the mage wasn't being stupid. He's an initiate of
a respectable level and more than decent stats. Not someone to tangle
with toe-to-toe.

The NPC is one featured in the Super Tuesday "amnesia/key" adventure
if you know what I refer to.

@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/




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Message no. 21
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:50:51 -0700
> I understand it as: The mage's movements (of bady and face) when he
> concentrates on that spell. You just have difficulties in trying to > look like
doing nothing while thinking (concentrating) on something > else.

Just to add my own ha'penny - Everyone's mentioned mages so far; the
"notice spellcasting" roll also takes into account shamanic masking (ie,
looking Wolf-like when casting that combat spell)

A mage may not *have* to make gesticulations to cast a spell, but I'd be
sure there's some unconscious movement going on, too.

-Matt
Message no. 22
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:27:00 EDT
On Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:22:17 -0700 Loki <gamemstr@********.COM> writes:
>The questions that came up were:
>
>1. Could Caric's character enter astral projection while under the
effects
>of the spell?

>1. No, he couldn't project. In my mind, doing so requires more than just
>involuntary body function...something like meditative breathing, muscle
>relaxtion, entering a zen like state.

And you don't consider complete muscle paralysis as anything akin to
muscle relaxation?
AFAIK entering a zen state is pretty much body independant (other wise
why the hell would people practice yogi or the like?).... isn't the point
of it to transcend/escape the body's influence?

Personally (in case you hadn't guessed that already) I'd say that astral
projection is completely fair game.

~Tim
Message no. 23
From: Smedley <smedley@***.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:01:33 +1000
Peter Andersen wrote:
>
> In the same vein, in my last session a player attempted to use the X-Ray Vision
spell (from Awakenings) to see through smoke what was filling the cabbin of an airplane.
The spell description makes refrence to the spell successes determining the barier rating
that the caster can see through.
>
> My problem: What's the barrier rating of smoke?

i would call it a barrier rating of 0 for normal smoke, a low rating
for IR/etc smoke.

--

Stupid Fact No.143: Santa is an anagram of Satan.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 24
From: Christian Werner <i21axray@*******.RZ.UNIBW-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:13:09 +0200
> In the same vein, in my last session a player attempted to use the X-R=
ay
> Vision spell (from Awakenings) to see through smoke what was filling t=
he
> cabbin of an airplane. The spell description makes refrence to the
> spell successes determining the barier rating that the caster can see
> through.

> My problem: What's the barrier rating of smoke?

> This may be a little strange but it also has effect on targets such as
> trying to see through a curtain covering a door way, a tarp over an
> object, seeing through a coat to find if someone has concealed weapons=
,
> etc.

> Since there was nothing to be discovered by using the spell, I
> recomended the player not cast it and wait until some solution has bee=
n
> found to the question.

> Any ideas?

In my opinion, there should be no problem to view through smoke with X-Ray=
-vision, so assume a base target number of 2 or 4.
Message no. 25
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:31:13 +0100
Loki said on 17:45/21 Apr 97...

[Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it yet!]













> The NPC is one featured in the Super Tuesday "amnesia/key" adventure
> if you know what I refer to.

My players managed to solve that without firing a shot at the bad guys,
except in the alley behind the club. A three-sided stand-off at the end
worked wonders to confuse them: both the elves and the Illuminates were
going "If you give them the key, we'll kill you." In the end they dropped
the key in the middle, and tried to back out, then tried to go back while
everybody shifted positions, and finally managed to get out and leave the
others to fight over the key :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I hate playing Solitaire by myself.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 26
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:45:04 -0500
Date: 21 Apr 97 Time: 17:26
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection

TO: Loki

> Thanx for all the input.

Hey, it feels good to help, neighbor. :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Married an ugly woman. Never do that. It sucks the life right
out of you.
-- Red, from Roadhouse
Message no. 27
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:41:30 -0700
---Gurth wrote:
>
> Loki said on 17:45/21 Apr 97...
>
> [Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it yet!]

[This ESPECIALLY means Loki's players]

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The NPC is one featured in the Super Tuesday "amnesia/key"
adventure
> > if you know what I refer to.
>
> My players managed to solve that without firing a shot at the bad
guys,
> except in the alley behind the club.

<sigh>

UInfortunately my players defaulted to their "shoot first and let the
spirits sort 'em out" approach, not thinking any side involved might
be helpful or a possible ally...

They're currently still at the epsiode in the alley, but all they've
done so far is run back there...spy elves chasing their contact and
immediately go lethal, drawing first blood. You know typical
Shadowrunner testosterone levels. ;o) We had to rap up in the midst
of the alteracation, and the mage is still working to end it capturing
the runners alive. However, they're not making it easy...

<closing sigh>

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 28
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:52:09 +0100
Loki said on 9:41/22 Apr 97...

> > [Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it yet!]
>
> [This ESPECIALLY means Loki's players]
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My players managed to solve that without firing a shot at the bad guys,
> > except in the alley behind the club.
>
> <sigh>
>
> UInfortunately my players defaulted to their "shoot first and let the
> spirits sort 'em out" approach, not thinking any side involved might
> be helpful or a possible ally...

Mine didn't think of that either, until they woke up on the elves'
tables... And then they conveniently forgot to call them up once a meeting
had been arranged with the Illuminates. Unfortunately for them, the Ghosts
already knew about it and showed up a few minutes after the players got
there. I decided to let them get away in the end, because it wasn't
necessary for either group to kill them -- though the Ghosts did try this
when they played dumb about the key. One shotgun blast was enough to
suddenly have one of them get the key out of his pocket :) (Of course he'd
already sustained a Serious wound before, and took another Moderate from
the shotgun *grin*)

> They're currently still at the epsiode in the alley, but all they've
> done so far is run back there...spy elves chasing their contact and
> immediately go lethal, drawing first blood. You know typical
> Shadowrunner testosterone levels. ;o)

We had some good fun there because the Ghosts had captured Bono already,
and one of them was holding him some distance behind the other elves. When
the shooting started, I asked the players "Do you want to play with the
stray rounds rule, or without it?" They said "with," and even when I
rolled the dice where they could see them, they ended up giving Bono an
unintentional Deadly wound... :)

> <closing sigh>

Best of luck... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
walkman generation
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 29
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:14:03 GMT
Gurth enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>Loki said on 9:41/22 Apr 97...
>
>> > [Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it yet!]
>>
>> [This ESPECIALLY means Loki's players]
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>necessary for either group to kill them -- though the Ghosts did try this
>when they played dumb about the key. One shotgun blast was enough to
>suddenly have one of them get the key out of his pocket :) (Of course he'd
>already sustained a Serious wound before, and took another Moderate from
>the shotgun *grin*)

"I have no key"
"Fezzik, tear his arms off"
"Oh, you mean this key?"

Name that movie.
(If anyone hasn't seen this, I'll cry. This is the greatest movie in history.)

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 30
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:41:24 EDT
On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:14:03 GMT Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU> writes:
>Gurth enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>>Loki said on 9:41/22 Apr 97...
>>
>>> > [Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it
>yet!]
>>>
>>> [This ESPECIALLY means Loki's players]
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>necessary for either group to kill them -- though the Ghosts did try
his
>>when they played dumb about the key. One shotgun blast was enough to
>>suddenly have one of them get the key out of his pocket :) (Of course
he'd
>>already sustained a Serious wound before, and took another Moderate
from
>>the shotgun *grin*)
>
>"I have no key"
>"Fezzik, tear his arms off"
>"Oh, you mean this key?"
>
>Name that movie.

Hmmm...Maybe "The Princess Bride" ? I'm not sure. It's been forever since
I saw it...

"I am Enego Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 31
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:54:42 -0700
---Brett Borger wrote:
>
> Gurth enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
> >Loki said on 9:41/22 Apr 97...
> >
> >> > [Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it
yet!]
> >>
> >> [This ESPECIALLY means Loki's players]
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >necessary for either group to kill them -- though the Ghosts did
try this
> >when they played dumb about the key. One shotgun blast was enough to
> >suddenly have one of them get the key out of his pocket :) (Of
course he'd
> >already sustained a Serious wound before, and took another Moderate
from
> >the shotgun *grin*)
>
> "I have no key"
> "Fezzik, tear his arms off"
> "Oh, you mean this key?"
>
> Name that movie.
> (If anyone hasn't seen this, I'll cry. This is the greatest movie
in history.)
>
> -=SwiftOne=-

Princess Bride

'Allo, my name is Indigo Montoya...
I name'd the movie...prepare to die!

:o)

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 32
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:32:37 -0500
Date: 23 Apr 97 Time: 20:41
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection

TO: L Canthros

> Hmmm...Maybe "The Princess Bride" ? I'm not sure. It's been forever
> since I saw it...

That's right. :) One of Shaun's favorites.

> "I am Enego Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

STOP SAYING THAT!!

Heh. My six-fingered man impression. :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Evolution is proven by people who're too stupid to live.
-- Archangel
Message no. 33
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:29 GMT
L Canthros enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:14:03 GMT Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU> writes:
>>Gurth enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>>>Loki said on 9:41/22 Apr 97...
>>>
>>>> > [Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it
>>yet!]
>>>>
>>>> [This ESPECIALLY means Loki's players]
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>Name that movie.
>
>Hmmm...Maybe "The Princess Bride" ? I'm not sure. It's been forever since
>I saw it...
>
>"I am Enego Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

(Wince) well, you are right....but with such confidence!

BTW, it's Inigo

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 34
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:26:00 MST
>>>Name that movie.
>>
>>Hmmm...Maybe "The Princess Bride" ? I'm not sure. It's been forever
since
>>I saw it...
>>
>>"I am Enego Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
>
>(Wince) well, you are right....but with such confidence!
>
>BTW, it's Inigo
>
>-=SwiftOne=-

I have this thing I do when the game gets a little slow, usually when we are
planning our raid on a research lab or something. We are trying to figure
out how to get in, planning our escape route, etc. When there is a pause,
I'll slam my fist down on the table and say "If only we had a wheelbarrow!
Now that would be something!"

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 35
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:49:18 -0700
> >>>> > [Super Tuesday Spoilers! Don't read on if you haven't played it
> >>yet!]
> >>>>
> >>>> [This ESPECIALLY means Loki's players]
> >>>>


CURSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Anonymous player in Loki's game


> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>Name that movie.
> >
> >Hmmm...Maybe "The Princess Bride" ? I'm not sure. It's been forever
since
> >I saw it...
> >
> >"I am Enego Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
>
> (Wince) well, you are right....but with such confidence!
>
> BTW, it's Inigo
>
> -=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 36
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:21:57 EDT
On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:29 GMT Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU> writes:
<snip Spoiler space>
>>>Name that movie.
>>
>>Hmmm...Maybe "The Princess Bride" ? I'm not sure. It's been forever
>since
>>I saw it...
>>
>>"I am Enego Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
>
>(Wince) well, you are right....but with such confidence!
>
>BTW, it's Inigo

Did I not say it had been a long time since I had seen the film? :)
Shoot, even then, I spent a _very_ long time thinking his name was Diego
('cause I've still never heard of anyone named 'Inigo' or whatever it
was:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 37
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:06:48 -0700
---L Canthros wrote:
>
> On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:29 GMT Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
writes:
> <snip Spoiler space>
> >>>Name that movie.
> >>
> >>Hmmm...Maybe "The Princess Bride" ? I'm not sure. It's been forever
> >since
> >>I saw it...
> >>
> >>"I am Enego Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
> >
> >(Wince) well, you are right....but with such confidence!
> >
> >BTW, it's Inigo
>
> Did I not say it had been a long time since I had seen the film? :)
> Shoot, even then, I spent a _very_ long time thinking his name was
Diego
> ('cause I've still never heard of anyone named 'Inigo' or whatever it
> was:)

Actually the name is Indigo (as in the color) from what I remember
seeing in the script.

The Princess Bride Staring: Mandy Patinkin as Indigo Montoya

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 38
From: ASROSENBERG@******.COM
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:39:59 -0400
Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> wrote:

>Actually the name is Indigo (as in the color) from what I remember
>seeing in the script.
>The Princess Bride Staring: Mandy Patinkin as Indigo Montoya

As much as I hate to argue with my GM,;) it's Inigo.
http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~pringle/princessbride has a copy of the
script, check it out.
Message no. 39
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:54:23 -0700
---ASROSENBERG@******.COM wrote:
>
> Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> >Actually the name is Indigo (as in the color) from what I remember
> >seeing in the script.
> >The Princess Bride Staring: Mandy Patinkin as Indigo Montoya
>
> As much as I hate to argue with my GM,;) it's Inigo.
> http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~pringle/princessbride has a copy of the
> script, check it out.

So my copy of the script is at home. I still remembered the spelling
as the color Indigo. I'll check the actual video when I get off shift
here in a half hour or so.

Also, when I posted earilier, I did a quick search of the net myself,
and referenced the following page. So there. :ob

http://www.greenapple.com/~mobrien/movie/p-z.html

Don't worry, if I find according to the video I'm wrong...I'm a man I
can admit it. I can also handle public humiliation by one of my
players. I can also change the two astrally lurking fire elementals
that the mage your group is fighting still has up his sleeve into
five...

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/


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Message no. 40
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:41:18 -0500
Date: 24 Apr 97 Time: 10:26
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection

TO: Denzil Kruse

> I have this thing I do when the game gets a little slow, usually
> when we are planning our raid on a research lab or something. We
> are trying to figure out how to get in, planning our escape route,
> etc. When there is a pause, I'll slam my fist down on the table and
> say "If only we had a wheelbarrow!
> Now that would be something!"

How about a holocaust cloak? :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Thought for the day:
The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
is not having to pay income tax.
Message no. 41
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:17:58 -0500
Date: 24 Apr 97 Time: 23:54
Subject: Re: Paralyze and Projection

TO: Loki

> Also, when I posted earilier, I did a quick search of the net
> myself, and referenced the following page. So there. :ob

Can't say I'm too impressed with it. Wesley's name is misspelled,
too. :)

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force
of arms forever. There is no greater power in the Universe than the
need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and
armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once; we will
teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be
free.
-- G'Kar, Babylon 5: The Long, Twilight Struggle

Further Reading

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Thwap!