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Message no. 1
From: Mike Trebbien <mvt@*************.com>
Subject: Payment for shadowruns (what's the going rate?)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:16:49 -0500
has anyone created a listing of average prices for runners of varying levels of skill for
different runs? Ie.

compensation Job Type Runner's Difficulty
per runner Rep

x nuyen extraction Wannabe easy
y nuyen extraction Solid moderate
z nuyen extraction Pro hard

where x, y, and z represent a range of nuyen values.

If anyone has a listing like this please send it to me, or post it. I would really like
to see what other GM's are offering their runners.
My runners have asked for a list like this so they know if they are being fleeced (of
course they are, but that's the price for a life in the Shadows), and I would like to see
what other campaigns are using for prices, before I set one up that is too munchkin (or
too lean).


Mike

mvt@*************.com

Decaffeination: A bodily function
Message no. 2
From: Gallas William <gallas@**.ec-lyon.fr>
Subject: Re: Payment for shadowruns (what's the going rate?)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 15:43:31 MET
> Mike:
>
> has anyone created a listing of average prices for runners of varying levels of skill
for different runs? Ie.
>
> compensation Job Type Runner's Difficulty
> per runner Rep
>
> x nuyen extraction Wannabe easy
> y nuyen extraction Solid moderate
> z nuyen extraction Pro hard
>
> where x, y, and z represent a range of nuyen values.
>
> If anyone has a listing like this please send it to me, or post it. I would really
like to see what other GM's are offering their runners.
> My runners have asked for a list like this so they know if they are being fleeced (of
course they are, but that's the price for a life in the Shadows), and I would like to see
what other campaigns are using for prices, before I set one up that is too munchkin (or
too lean).

Well, I'll try it but remember those are average prices. They can vary widely
from time to time and from the employer. And this doesn't cover what the players
discover during the run (especially the deckers...) :)

I don't care about the rule calculating the rep, so I'll give levels to theirs.

Runner's rep. Difficulty Nuyen
Wannabee easy 1,000
moderate 3,000
hard don't ask him!
Average easy 3,000
moderate 5,000
hard 10,000
Pro easy 5,000
moderate 10,000
hard 25,000 to 50,000
Legend easy he has a rep to maintain!
moderate 100,000
hard 500,000 to no limit...
I hope this will help... :)

- Cobra.

_______
/ \
| _ )
\_/ \ /
/ ) /
/| / /
/ /
/ /
/ /
/ /
/ /
/ / __
/ /______/ )
(___________/\|
Message no. 3
From: Lars M Ericson <lericson@***.edu>
Subject: Re: Payment for shadowruns (what's the going rate?)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:49:29 (CST)
It's hard to have a "universal" pay scale since GMs run campaigns quite
a bit differently. Nevertheless, starting characters can usually expect
around 5-10k nY and intermediate level characters general consider 10k a
reasonable pay. If characters are wondering whether the offer is fair,
have them roll some Etiquette (Street) to see how well they know the going
rate. Considering that it is an integral part of all shadowrunning, I
would say that it would be an average roll. You could also have the
employer make a Negotiations (4) roll with every success raising the
difficulty on the Street Etiquette roll. This would correspond to the
employer convincing the characters that it is a fair amount.

-- Lars Ericson
Message no. 4
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Payment for shadowruns (what's the going rate?)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 12:19 EST
>has anyone created a listing of average prices for runners of varying
levels of skill for different runs? Ie.
>
>compensation Job Type Runner's Difficulty
>per runner Rep
>
>x nuyen extraction Wannabe easy
>y nuyen extraction Solid moderate
>z nuyen extraction Pro hard
>
>where x, y, and z represent a range of nuyen values.
>
>If anyone has a listing like this please send it to me, or post it. I
would >really like to see what other GM's are offering their runners.
>My runners have asked for a list like this so they know if they are being
>fleeced (of course they are, but that's the price for a life in the
Shadows), >and I would like to see what other campaigns are using for
prices, before I >set one up that is too munchkin (or too lean).
Mike,
When deciding on how much to pay a character for a run, you must think
what will that character do with the money? How easy do you want it to be
for the street sams buy that delta grade move-by-wire 4, or the party's
shaman to buy that force 20 power focus that's he's been wanting (these are
all exagerated examples of course; I am not calling anyone a munchkin.)
Another question to ask is how badly do their employers want the job done.
I know I may hate myself in the future for doing this, but heres something I
just thought of off the top of my head

Compensation for runner
base: 5,000-20,000 (Depends on how generous you want to be)

Job type multiplier:
Babysitting: 1
Extraction (where the extraction is from):
non-corp or govt:2
Corp or govt: 3

Assination (reflects penalty for murder):
non-corp or govt: 2.5
Corp or Govt: 5
Dragon, Harlequin, or Ehran: 10

Runners Rep multiplier:
Newbie: 1
Desperate:.5
Solid: 2
Desperate: 1
Pro: 4
Desperate: 2
Difficulty multiplier:
Easy: 1
Moderate: 2
Hard: 3

Note: Sometimes a character may not want money, but equipment instead. So,
you might want to use the money that they would get paid to by the
equipment, if you think what they are asking for is reasonable. Also some
runners may want to negotiate a price, if so allow them to do so and follow
the negotion rules in the Behind the Scenes section in the SR2 book.

What do you all think?
---Sedah Drol

--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 5
From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
Subject: Re: Payment for shadowruns (what's the going rate?)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:37:34 -0500 (EST)
> If anyone has a listing like this please send it to me, or post it. I would
> really like to see what other GM's are offering their runners.

I, too, would be interested in hearing such feedback.. How 'bout yourself,
Mike? What do YOUR Johnsons offer? >8-> I'd also like to hear something
about average Karma awards per run.

As the group gained experience, my rewards have gone up a bit.. Now they
tend to range between 10,000 =Y= and 40,000 =Y= per runner per job. I'd say
average at 20,000. It depends partly on the difficulty of the run, largely
on who's backing the Johnson and the incentive they think they need to
offer. (My players have gotten quite good at smelling a setup behind a
large offer..) >8-> The published modules (notably _Harlequin_) tend to
offer the runners more than I usually do, which have been all the 40,000 =Y=
payoffs so far.

Karma, tends to be 3-6 points each per adventure, I'd say average about 5.
More if the adventure runs multiple sessions or is unusually difficult or
heroic. I stopped giving so much Individual Karma and started incorporating
individuals' actions into Team Karma, because otherwise the runners whose
personalities take center stage get an unbalanced amount of Karma each week.
I _usually_ tone down the Karma awards from published adventures, which I
feel to be insanely high.



> My runners have asked for a list like this so they know if they are being
> fleeced (of course they are, but that's the price for a life in the Shadows), >
and I would like to see what other campaigns are using for prices, before I
> set one up that is too munchkin (or too lean).

Why should your runners care? Your campaign is your campaign, it doesn't
have to conform to anyone else's. If they're going to use it as leverage
to demand higher pay from you, don't tell them.

In general, pay them according to how quickly you want them to advance and
get new equipment. If you want to keep them at "street level," give them
small paychecks. If you want them to turn professional (my runners have
rented a warehouse under ganger protection and are loading it up with
security and communications gear for a HQ, but heavy cyberware and magic
foci are still long-term goals), give 'em more.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|Eley's Indicator of Truth:
my opinions are my opinions. |"Having more questions than you started
Please don't blame anyone else. | with is a good sign you're onto something."
Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Payment for shadowruns (what's the going rate?)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 12:14:36 +0100
Mike Trebbien said on 7 Dec 95...

> has anyone created a listing of average prices for runners of varying
> levels of skill for different runs? Ie.

Could you press enter at the end of the screen? Makes reading the message
a bit easier :)

> My runners have asked for a list like this so they know if they are
> being fleeced

I wouldn't give something like that to your players. It's up to them to
decide whether or not they're being paid enough for what they do or not --
if they want to find out going rates let them make an Etiquette test or
something and say "Yeah, in your experience, this counts as good payment"
without saying that the player has been paid too little all his life :)
Or if they want, they could go around asking other people. But they'd have
to live with the consequences :)

> and I would like to see what other campaigns are using for
> prices, before I set one up that is too munchkin (or too lean).

I don't really hav any set prices. Hell, it's been at least half a year
(real time) since any runners I know got paid for a job, and I can't
really remember what they were paid... I'd say make it a few thousand (2
or 3) for a simpel run, up to double that for a very involved one, for
inexperienced runners who aren't really known on the street.

Increase as you see fit -- perhaps you could base it on their Karma Pool?
1000 x Karma Pool^2, for instance, as a means of calculating average
payment, then roll some dice and add or subtract from that figure as you
like... For instance, add 1D10% then subtract 1D10%, applyin the Rule of
Six to the D10s (OK, rename it Rule of Ten for this :)

So, we have a character with a Karma Pool of 7, which means average
payment for a run for him would be 49,000 nuyen, according to the formula
I just thought up. With my first D10 I just rolled 10, so I throw it again
for a 9. The second D10 comes up as 1, so the actual payment is 49,000 x
1.18 = 57,820 nuyen, rounded to 57,500 to make a neater figure.

Then you could adjust this for how hard the run is expected to be (from
the Johnson's point of view, not from the GM's *GM grin*) -- Easy x.75,
Average x1.00, and Hard x1.25, for instance.

Tweak these figures as you see fit, if you want to use them (I don't, but
now that I think about it I might do so in the future...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Turn on a million blinding brilliant white incendiary lights
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Helge Diernaes <ecocide@***.econ.cbs.dk>
Subject: Re: Payment for shadowruns (what's the going rate?)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 19:45:20 +0100 (MET)
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, S.F. Eley wrote:

> > If anyone has a listing like this please send it to me, or post it. I would
> > really like to see what other GM's are offering their runners.
>
> I, too, would be interested in hearing such feedback.. How 'bout yourself,
> Mike? What do YOUR Johnsons offer? >8-> I'd also like to hear something
> about average Karma awards per run.

> [runs award between 10k and 40k]
> [Karma award 3-6 pr session]
>
> In general, pay them according to how quickly you want them to advance and
> get new equipment. If you want to keep them at "street level," give them
> small paychecks. If you want them to turn professional (my runners have
> rented a warehouse under ganger protection and are loading it up with
> security and communications gear for a HQ, but heavy cyberware and magic
> foci are still long-term goals), give 'em more.
>
This is also my advice: you awards depend entirely upon your gamers style
and how you want to mold them.

I run quite high-power games, ie my gamers are well equipped, quite
smart, but they run in circles where that is just the requirement. And
they can still die from light pistols.
For a powerrun, where the brain activity level is rather significant, I
tend to reward 150-500 k, fringe benefits and (-5) to 25 karma.
It should be noted, that mucking PC's get next to nothing karmawise in my
session. I wanna be entertained too :). If a PC wants karma from killing,
that killing has to be done artistic, like roleplayed a fight (including
dice, ofcourse) or setting very smart traps.

Second, I play with intelligent NPC's.

Third, if my gamers make fatal mistakes, the world is cruel.
Last time, we had been playing for around 13 hours, and I asked my gamers
wether they wanted to stop. They didn't, and stepped out of an elevator
on a hit mission, and started blowing away. They were too tired to think
of an concealed person behind them in the corridor, who might be carrying
granades. Which actually was the case. They killed lots (they were cool
and definitely better than their opponents) but the damage taken by the
granade were sufficient to down all but one of the party.
By then the HongKong "SWAT" had arrived. As the gamers were impersonating
the Yaks (feintx3 story), the SWATS weren't merciful. The sole surviving PC
tried a backward tumble but these babes were as wired as him. He died.
As for the rest of them, the SWATS simply killed them. My Hongkong swats
have suffered enough from the Yak, so they are merciless. Would probably
not have happened in UCAS, but they were warned.

Where was I?.. oh yes, fourth. I give much and I take much. One of my
lamentable traits is that I can give one PC 500k which is much, and
then make his old "friends" come back at him unless he is smart, and
vapourise most of that money. Consequnetly, my PC's tend to be very
socially popular after runs as they burn off most of their money so that
I can't steal it.

Phew what a narrative. Sorry if anyone is snoring :), a distinct
possibility.

Wonders what use anyone can actually make of this...

--
Regards,

Silhouette

******************************--------------**********************************
" ?"
Myself, 1195
______________________________**************__________________________________

Helge Diernaes
ecocide@***.econ.cbs.dk

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