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Message no. 1
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:32:45 EST
> #This is based (as I remember) on the first edition method for creating
> #characters. I always thought it was stupid for a mundane human to have to
> #spend the D for nothing. In my version, he/she can spend all 10 points
> #among stats, skills, and resources.
>
> this was also brought back with the companion

I don't recall that existing in First Edition. It was in the
Mechwarrior game by FASA, which also has a creation table, but I
don't think it was in First Ed.

Support?
Message no. 2
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 18:18:20 -0500
At 05:32 PM 9/18/97 EST, Brett Borger wrote:
#> #This is based (as I remember) on the first edition method for creating
#> #characters. I always thought it was stupid for a mundane human to have to
#> #spend the D for nothing. In my version, he/she can spend all 10 points
#> #among stats, skills, and resources.
#>
#> this was also brought back with the companion
#
#I don't recall that existing in First Edition. It was in the
#Mechwarrior game by FASA, which also has a creation table, but I
#don't think it was in First Ed.
#

It was in 1st edition but I can't seem to find it ATM.

It was called the Sum to 10 system, as the table had 0,1,2,3,4 instead of
ABCDE.

--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:30:07 -0400
Brett Borger once dared to write,

>> #This is based (as I remember) on the first edition method for creating
>> #characters. I always thought it was stupid for a mundane human to have to
>> #spend the D for nothing. In my version, he/she can spend all 10 points
>> #among stats, skills, and resources.
>>
>> this was also brought back with the companion
>
>I don't recall that existing in First Edition. It was in the
>Mechwarrior game by FASA, which also has a creation table, but I
>don't think it was in First Ed.
>
>Support?

It indeed did and was then got vague about it and then contradicted it in
the examples. I think all the archetypes used priority instead of sum
generation (using some off values from the prototype system in some
cases).

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:36:57 -0500
At 12:30 AM 9/19/97 -0400, MC23 wrote:
#Brett Borger once dared to write,
#
#>> #This is based (as I remember) on the first edition method for creating
#>> #characters. I always thought it was stupid for a mundane human to
have to
#>> #spend the D for nothing. In my version, he/she can spend all 10 points
#>> #among stats, skills, and resources.
#>>
#>> this was also brought back with the companion
#>
#>I don't recall that existing in First Edition. It was in the
#>Mechwarrior game by FASA, which also has a creation table, but I
#>don't think it was in First Ed.
#>
#>Support?
#
#It indeed did and was then got vague about it and then contradicted it in
#the examples. I think all the archetypes used priority instead of sum
#generation (using some off values from the prototype system in some
#cases).

any idea what page it was on, I can't seem to find it ATM
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 5
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 01:01:24 -0400
Jaymz once dared to write,

>#It indeed did and was then got vague about it and then contradicted it in
>#the examples. I think all the archetypes used priority instead of sum
>#generation (using some off values from the prototype system in some
>#cases).
>
>any idea what page it was on, I can't seem to find it ATM

Top of page 53 in the original hardback. I talleyed up the archetype
examples way back when to see how they were created. Two point
assignments examples were given one of which clearly goes against the sum
method.
FASA, they're wacky! B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:06:23 +0100
MC23 said on 0:30/19 Sep 97...

> >I don't recall that existing in First Edition. It was in the
> >Mechwarrior game by FASA, which also has a creation table, but I
> >don't think it was in First Ed.
> >
> >Support?
>
> It indeed did and was then got vague about it and then contradicted it in
> the examples. I think all the archetypes used priority instead of sum
> generation (using some off values from the prototype system in some
> cases).

"To create an archetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
columns in the Master Character Table. All five Priority Levels (0, 1, 2,
3, 4) must be assigned." --SR1 page 53.

From that, from the fact that I found and can remember no mention of the
"sum to ten" system, and from the decker/elven decker examples, I'd say
the "sum to ten" system wasn't used in SR1.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:06:23 +0100
Brett Borger said on 17:32/18 Sep 97...

> > #This is based (as I remember) on the first edition method for creating
> > #characters. I always thought it was stupid for a mundane human to have to
> > #spend the D for nothing. In my version, he/she can spend all 10 points
> > #among stats, skills, and resources.
> >
> > this was also brought back with the companion
>
> I don't recall that existing in First Edition. It was in the
> Mechwarrior game by FASA, which also has a creation table, but I
> don't think it was in First Ed.

That is originally a MechWarrior rule, yes. First edition SR did use
numbers for the priorities instead of letters (E=0, D=1, etc.), like MW
and the Companion's optional rule, but it had NO rule that allowed the
"add up to 10" system that MW does. Another difference is that in first
edition, a metahuman _had_ to get an allergy, which was rolled on two
tables.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 8
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 08:29:31 -0500
At 12:06 PM 9/19/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
# "To create an archetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
# columns in the Master Character Table. All five Priority Levels (0, 1, 2,
# 3, 4) must be assigned." --SR1 page 53.
#
# >From that, from the fact that I found and can remember no mention of the
# "sum to ten" system, and from the decker/elven decker examples, I'd say
# the "sum to ten" system wasn't used in SR1.

I can remember the sum to ten, but cannot find it in my books...

I seem to recall it was in a very strange place.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 9
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:44:32 -0400
Gurth once dared to write,

>"To create an archetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
>columns in the Master Character Table. All five Priority Levels (0, 1, 2,
>3, 4) must be assigned." --SR1 page 53.

"To create an Achetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
columns in the Master Character Table. The sum of the priorities must
equal 10." -- SR hardback first edition first print.
It also went on to say
"(notice there is no reason to assign Priority 1 or 2 to Magic)"
and
"(there is no reason to assign Race a priority of 1, 2, or 3)"
and then contracdict it in the examples.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 10
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:13:29 -0800
At 08:29 9/19/97 -0500, Jaymz wrote:
>At 12:06 PM 9/19/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
># "To create an archetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
># columns in the Master Character Table. All five Priority Levels (0, 1, 2,
># 3, 4) must be assigned." --SR1 page 53.
>
>I can remember the sum to ten, but cannot find it in my books...
>
>I seem to recall it was in a very strange place.

I've seen it as a house rule, but never in an SR sourcebook.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%
%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%
Message no. 11
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:03:55 -0500
At 09:44 AM 9/19/97 -0400, MC23 wrote:
# Gurth once dared to write,
#
# >"To create an archetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
# >columns in the Master Character Table. All five Priority Levels (0, 1, 2,
# >3, 4) must be assigned." --SR1 page 53.
#
# "To create an Achetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
# columns in the Master Character Table. The sum of the priorities must
# equal 10." -- SR hardback first edition first print.
# It also went on to say
# "(notice there is no reason to assign Priority 1 or 2 to Magic)"
# and
# "(there is no reason to assign Race a priority of 1, 2, or 3)"
# and then contracdict it in the examples.

I've never actually had access to the 1st edition, but I know I've seen the
sum-to-10 system in some kind of optional rule place. I checked the Behind
the scenes and after the shadowrun pages and it's not there. Maybe it was
in an adventure?

Anybody else have a clue?
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 12
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:23:23 -0400
Jaymz once dared to write,

>I've never actually had access to the 1st edition, but I know I've seen the
>sum-to-10 system in some kind of optional rule place. I checked the Behind
>the scenes and after the shadowrun pages and it's not there. Maybe it was
>in an adventure?
>
>Anybody else have a clue?

Um, I just quoted the from p53 of the first printing of the the
Shadowrun rulebook (the one with the infamous sword and cyberdeck). It
was changed in the later editions it appears. Could another list member
with said book confirm it.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 13
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:32:07 -0500
At 04:23 PM 9/19/97 -0400, MC23 wrote:
# Jaymz once dared to write,
#
# >I've never actually had access to the 1st edition, but I know I've seen the
# >sum-to-10 system in some kind of optional rule place. I checked the Behind
# >the scenes and after the shadowrun pages and it's not there. Maybe it was
# >in an adventure?
# >
# >Anybody else have a clue?
#
# Um, I just quoted the from p53 of the first printing of the the
# Shadowrun rulebook (the one with the infamous sword and cyberdeck). It
# was changed in the later editions it appears. Could another list member
# with said book confirm it.

page 53 of the later editions says what Gurth quoted.

and that's it
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:06:54 +0100
Jaymz said on 8:29/19 Sep 97...

> I can remember the sum to ten, but cannot find it in my books...
>
> I seem to recall it was in a very strange place.

If it is in SR1 somewhere, then that may be why I haven't noticed it...
Otherwise, perhaps it could be a common house rule brought on by the use
of numbers for priorities.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:06:54 +0100
MC23 said on 9:44/19 Sep 97...

> >"To create an archetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
> >columns in the Master Character Table. All five Priority Levels (0, 1, 2,
> >3, 4) must be assigned." --SR1 page 53.
>
> "To create an Achetype, assign a priority from 0 to 4 to each of the five
> columns in the Master Character Table. The sum of the priorities must
> equal 10." -- SR hardback first edition first print.

Aha. Now we have the root of this whole business -- my SR1 softcover is
5th printing and my hardback 2nd printing, both of which have the text
that's double-quoted (> >) above in it, not the text that MC23's first
printing has.

Another thing I now noticed is that my softback doesn't list the examples,
and has the sentence, "Additionally, characters using magic receive only
150,000Y not 400,000Y for Tech priority 3." added in place of the
examples.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:06:54 +0100
Jaymz said on 15:03/19 Sep 97...

> I've never actually had access to the 1st edition, but I know I've seen the
> sum-to-10 system in some kind of optional rule place. I checked the Behind
> the scenes and after the shadowrun pages and it's not there. Maybe it was
> in an adventure?

In the SR Companion, on page 20 it talks about using this system for
creating characters. With it, if you make a mundane human you can get
a much more powerful character than with the normal system. If you want a
metahuman magician, I don't think there'll be all that much difference in
power levels, while mundane metahumans and human magicians hang in the
middle a bit.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 17
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 02:03:49 -0500
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, MC23 wrote:


>
>
> Um, I just quoted the from p53 of the first printing of the the
> Shadowrun rulebook (the one with the infamous sword and cyberdeck). It
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What is this "sword and cyberdeck"? a story? where can I get a
copy of it?

Czar Eggbert
.
>
>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
> Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
> more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
> answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
> it could be used against them.
> History repeats itself.
> Welcome to the Digital Age.
> I am MC23
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"It's not the heat, it's the humidity.It's not the voltage, it's the current.
It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
- Jeff Vogel
Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 18
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:53:23 -0500
At 22-Sep-97 wrote Czar Eggbert:

[snip some text AND MC23 sig]

Czar could you please cut the sig`s of the post you are replaying to.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #17:

When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
their advice.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 19
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 10:53:48 -0400
Czar Eggbert once dared to write,

> What is this "sword and cyberdeck"? a story? where can I get a
>copy of it?

It was just some illustrations that appeared in the equipment lists
that was only in the first printing. That's the easy way you can tell a
first printing of the original hardback. The illustrations were of no
real quality so there is no loss there.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 20
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phys Ad Creation (Was: Are PhysAds Balanced? (survey))
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:36:55 -0500
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Barbie wrote:

> At 22-Sep-97 wrote Czar Eggbert:
>
> [snip some text AND MC23 sig]
>
> Czar could you please cut the sig`s of the post you are replaying to.
>
> --
>
> Barbie

Woops! Sorry... wrote that at 3am :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"It's not the heat, it's the humidity.It's not the voltage, it's the current.
It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
- Jeff Vogel
Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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