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Message no. 1
From: "P. Steele" <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 10:13:06 BST
> Do Phys Adepts get a magic pool ? If not why ?

Got a couple of responses on this one from The Minoutar and Similing Wolf.
The general consensus of those 2 was that it shouldn't be allowed, cause
a: The Phys Ad isn't a true magician b: Too unbalancing.

But surely these are just excuses. I mean a character who can (if he picks
it) enter astral space, fight spells or other stuff in there, and has so many
inate magical abilities, would in my opinion have very strong links to the
astral plane.

Now while he may not be able to call upon astral energies to cast spells he
would in my opinion (I hate using IMHO) be much more capable of resisting
spells than the average mundane. Now it may not be practical to give the
Phys Ad a magic pool that he can use to help others, as in my opinion he does
not have enough magical ability to extend protection to others, but I believe
he should have a personal magic pool to represent his inate magical abilities.

Comments and views anyone ?



--- The Powerhouse.
Message no. 2
From: "Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat"
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 09:52:59 EDT
>>>>> "PS" == P. Steele <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
writes:

PS> Now while he may not be able to call upon astral energies to cast
PS> spells he would in my opinion (I hate using IMHO) be much more
PS> capable of resisting spells than the average mundane. Now it may
PS> not be practical to give the Phys Ad a magic pool that he can use
PS> to help others, as in my opinion he does not have enough magical
PS> ability to extend protection to others, but I believe he should
PS> have a personal magic pool to represent his inate magical
PS> abilities.

This is why PAs may study Sorcery, to fight in Astral Space. He will
get an Astral Pool equal to his grade when he initiates, tho.

Non-riggers don't get a Driving Pool, non-deckers don't get a Hacking
Pool, so ][ don't see why a non-spellcaster should get a spellcaster's
Pool. Unless you want to allow spellcasters to acquire autosuccesses;
][ mean, they *are* magically active after all... (NOT!--^)

--Rat
||||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat ratinox@******.coe.northeastern.edu
And now we meet again, for the first time, for the last time. --Dark Helmet
Message no. 3
From: Kurt Rausher <kjrausch@*******.CS.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 09:51:06 -0400
Personally, in my game and in the vast majority of my friend's games
Physical adepts are definately allowed a magic pool for defensive purposes
only. they may use this to defend themselves or others and they may shield if
they
are initiated. They are not allowed to concentrate or specialize thier sorcery.
It makes thing simpler. however, in response to anyone who thinks that this is
over balancing, most of the physical adepts do not bother to spend the karma to
raise their skill higher than 3,4, or 5. I This represents that they know more
about spells and how to resist them, and can use their innate magical abilities
to do so. They can WILLfully decide to use their ability to protect others.
All of this requires some training, but no more than they would receive from a
competent mage teaching them.

-Datatorch <I'm just so/Gr-ea-t!>
Message no. 4
From: "Erekosse, Magelord of Amber Keep" <dsk@*****.CACS.USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 92 10:11:37 -0600
In my game, I'd allow a phys ad to have a magic pool with the following
provisions:
1) prereq: astral perception
2) pool limit: character's sorcery skill
3) pool purchased on the following basis
a) personal pool .5(or 1) magic/die
b) standard pool 2 magic/die

The personal pool could only be used in the character's own defense. The
large discrepency in cost between personal and standard is that in general
most (if not all, I don't have the book with me) are personal in nature.
The standard pool allows the magical protection of other people which I
personally don't think is in the realm of phys ad powers. I'd allow it
since it opens up the realm of astral investigator/exorcist etc to an
adept, in contrast to the more usual martial artist concept.

Erekosse
erekosse@***.edu

Member (good standing) Nonsequitur Society of America:
We may not make sense, but we have outstanding parties!
Message no. 5
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@****.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Phys Adepts
Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 15:35:55 EST
What's the point in being a physical adept other than the 'killing hands' feature?

It seems to me that one could create a martial artist using cyber/bio ware with the
same functions as a phy ad, and not have to blow a high priority on magic.

What have I missed?

Chris
Message no. 6
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 11:30:37 -0700
Chris asked:

What's the point in being a physical adept other than the 'killing hands'
feature?

It seems to me that one could create a martial artist using cyber/bio ware with
the same functions as a phy ad, and not have to blow a high priority on magic.

What have I missed?

Chris, you've missed alot.

When was the last time you tried to use a heal spell on a maxed bio/cybered
character? It's nearly impossible. Once these guys take damage they have to
live with it for the entire adventure. Physical Adepts bounce over to the party
magicians and are better in no time.

There is also astral perception. I'd like to see a samurai do that.

Then there's Initiation. Sure you begin with six points of magic and getting
two extra initiative dice cost 4 of them, but with time and karma you can get
unmearsureable amounts of magic and the power that goes with it.

Then there is centering and advanced centering. Now it takes a good bit of
karma to get these powers, but if you get Advanced Centering on combat skills,
you can start ignoring combat modes like damage and cover. Wouldn't it be nice
to have Target Number of 3 verses a target with partial cover? Physical Adepts
can get that but samurai's can't.

The rule is really simple, any thing a samurai can do a Physical Adept can do
better, it just takes a ton of karma to do it.

See Ya in Shadows,
Jason J Carter
The Nightstalker
Message no. 7
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@****.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 14:43:29 EST
Jason replied:

> Chris, you've missed alot.

That's certainly possible - I've only just started playing in a SR2 campaign. ;-)

> When was the last time you tried to use a heal spell on a maxed bio/cybered
> character? It's nearly impossible. Once these guys take damage they have to
> live with it for the entire adventure. Physical Adepts bounce over to the party
> magicians and are better in no time.

Agreed, this is something I had forgotten. Does bioware affect essence (point to
the person who hasn't really read Shadowtech yet... :-) )? If it doesn't, I believe
you could make your martial artist via this and not have the healing problems. Of
course money, etc could be a hassle, but that's another story.

> There is also astral perception. I'd like to see a samurai do that.

A nice advantage, but one that isn't really necessary to a 'martial artist'.

> Then there's Initiation. Sure you begin with six points of magic and getting
> two extra initiative dice cost 4 of them, but with time and karma you can get
> unmearsureable amounts of magic and the power that goes with it.

That karma could be put into skills and attributes instead, and given the cost of
initiation, it probably would be more useful to do so (of course I don't have the
rules with me to check it out, so I can't be sure). Initiating gives you an extra
magic point (i.e. when you've finally got to grade 1) to use on the phys ad
abilities.

Is it worth it? The costs for the phys ad abilities seem to really chew up the
good ol' magic points. To get the two extra initiative dice and a decent level
of killing hands (say S) costs 8 (from memory), hence you have to be a grade 2
initiate - and this is before you get into the other nifty bits of extra dice or
pain resistance, etc.

> Then there is centering and advanced centering. Now it takes a good bit of
> karma to get these powers, but if you get Advanced Centering on combat skills,
> you can start ignoring combat modes like damage and cover. Wouldn't it be nice
> to have Target Number of 3 verses a target with partial cover? Physical Adepts
> can get that but samurai's can't.

This is something I can't comment on, because I've yet to read this part of the rules.
From your example above it seems quite interesting. Maybe this could be the area that
makes them significantly different to martial artist street sam.

> The rule is really simple, any thing a samurai can do a Physical Adept can do
> better, it just takes a ton of karma to do it.

And it seems to me: *lots* more karma.

Chris
Message no. 8
From: Chris Ryan <chrisr@****.FIT.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 11:44:32 EST
Badger:
> Doesn't anybody ROLE Play on this net. True you can get a more powerful
> character using cyber and make a street sam. BUT the Physical Adept is NOT a
> Street Sam. They have different motivations and they ROLE Play different.
> The powers of the Pys-ad are obtained through extensive training and
> dedication this makes them see things differently than a street sam who when
> he needs something just goes out and buys it. Basically you can't compare a
> Street Sam to a Phys-Ad because they are not even close to alike. (apples to
> oranges both are fruits but completely different otherwise)

I was wondering when someone would drag this in. Indirectly my reason for asking
this question was on a roleplaying issue. If I could create a martial artist that
did not require blowing a high priority on magic, then I could use that priority to
gain more skills. When I roleplay a character, I try to keep within the bounds of
knowledge and skills I've selected. For example, if I forego Biotech, then I think of
my character as having little or no skill in that area (I know one can default via
skill webs, but when that happens I consider it as 'peripheral' knowledge).

This can affect how you deal with certain situations. Continuing the example,
perhaps my character would become nervous/panic when required to do first aid.
It's my way of fleshing out the character.

Chris
Message no. 9
From: Joe Block <JPB1@******.COM>
Subject: Physadepts
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 00:10:50 -0400
I've been thinking over some of the recent posts on new powers for physads,
such as shattering blow (and the original ones like killing hands). It
seems to me that most of the damaging physad powers should have their damage
based on Will rather than Strength.

My reasoning for this is that (using the example of the martial arts master,
my idea of a classic physad) most of these powers seem (to me at least) to
be based on the adept focusing his will on shattering the bricks, his will
on catching the arrow, ignoring the pain of blows, etc etc. This also
explains why the sterotypical feeble looking little old sensei is able to be
such a bad ass. Sure, the typical student is in much better shape, but
sensei has a stronger will and the training to use it.

Any comments?

Joe <jpb1@******.com>

Every candle ever lit; every home, bridge, cathedral, or city ever built;
every act of human kindness, discovery, daring, artistry, or advancement
started first in someoneUs imagination. You have that power -- use it! -
Gil Atkinson
Message no. 10
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physadepts
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 11:55:11 -0700
Joe Said:

>>I've been thinking over some of the recent posts on new powers for physads,
>>such as shattering blow (and the original ones like killing hands). It
>>seems to me that most of the damaging physad powers should have their damage
>>based on Will rather than Strength.

Interesting idea, but even in the martial arts, strength is a very important
factor.

>>My reasoning for this is that (using the example of the martial arts master,
>>my idea of a classic physad) most of these powers seem (to me at least) to
>>be based on the adept focusing his will on shattering the bricks, his will
>>on catching the arrow, ignoring the pain of blows, etc etc. This also
>>explains why the sterotypical feeble looking little old sensei is able to be
>>such a bad ass. Sure, the typical student is in much better shape, but
>>sensei has a stronger will and the training to use it.

I always thought that first of all the sensei's were just stronger than they
looked. You don't have to be Arnold Swartzenagger to be strong. I also thought
that the rest of their apparent strength was just higher skill compensating for
their lower physical strength. The student had youth and strength while the
master had skill and experience. Skill and experience always win out over
youth and strength. Only when the student gained enough skill could he hope
to beat the master.

See Ya in Shadows,
Jason J Carter
The Nightstalker
Message no. 11
From: mike klein <klein@******.OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject: phys adepts
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 16:54:09 -0500
For those individuals who like the burnt-out mage and phsical adepts, is
it possible to combine the aspects of the two?

For example: combining the potency of synaptic accelerators and the adept
power to increase his initiative dice? I found that this is the
cheapest/essense friendliest way to kick butt.

i'm listening

mk
Message no. 12
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: phys adepts
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 17:55:28 -0600
>For those individuals who like the burnt-out mage and phsical adepts, is
>it possible to combine the aspects of the two?

I assume you mean the elements of lowering Essence and thus Magic Rating,
rather than combining the spellcasting ability of a true mage with the
physical prowess of an adept.

It is a workable solution, though not one I chose for my adept (it didn't
fit the character concept). Another variation is Alpha smartgun link and
cybereyes, which comes to just under 1 Essence.

I'm not sure if you can combine such initiative enhancements as you mentiononed,
though.


J Roberson
Message no. 13
From: Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: phys adepts
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 11:06:17 +1100
>
>For those individuals who like the burnt-out mage and phsical adepts, is
>it possible to combine the aspects of the two?
>
>For example: combining the potency of synaptic accelerators and the adept
>power to increase his initiative dice? I found that this is the
>cheapest/essense friendliest way to kick butt.
>mk

I done think that the SA and adept powers (ie increased dice) will work
together. You may be able to get the increase base reaction, but I don't think
you can get these double dice access. Otherwise whats to stop the Adept
haveing, after a number of runs and initiations, SA-2 and increase initiative 4.
Giving the charecter 7d6 dice to roll, on a base of about 5, about 29
average, with a max of 40.

Adeus.
Message no. 14
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: phys adepts
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 17:04:53 -0700
>>For those individuals who like the burnt-out mage and phsical adepts, is
>>it possible to combine the aspects of the two?
>
>I'm not sure if you can combine such initiative enhancements as you mentiononed,
>though.
>
>J Roberson

Jeremy - you are right in asumming that you cannot combine initiative
enhancements. ALL the reflex enhancements are exclusive.

no wired + boosted
no increase relfex + wired
no increase relfex(spell) + increased reflex(phys ad)

interesting thing though - you can increase reflex(spell) on something with a
natural upped reflex (ie big cats, dragons and such - those things with * + **
next to their reaction attributte)


BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Daniel Waisley + SCA - March of Ered Sul - Flagstaff AZ
DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU + Nau fencing club.
"Nightfox" + Brotherhood of the Cryptic Demesne -household
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
GE - d+(-) -p+@ c++(++++) !L u(--) e+(*) m+ s+/ !n+(-) h* f+ g+ w+++ t+ r+ y+
"infinity = zero" - Daniel Waisley "Nightfox"
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Message no. 15
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 21:14:51 +1000
Paul Jonathan Adam writes:

> A physical adept can become better in specialised areas than most samurai
> ever could,

Hey, hey, somebody agrees with me! Yay! <much rejoicing occurs in computer
lab>

> has some really nifty powers already, and can percieve astral space -
> including beating up incoming spells!

But not. It is only possible to intercept incoming spells if you are
astrally projecting, pg 148 SRII.

--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 16
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Phys Adepts
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 20:23:41 GMT
I wrote that a physad -
> > has some really nifty powers already, and can percieve astral space -
> > including beating up incoming spells!
>
> But not. It is only possible to intercept incoming spells if you are
> astrally projecting, pg 148 SRII.

Oops. Still playing SR1, where astral perception and killing hands let
an adept beat up on incoming spells. Since my adept never did have either
power I didn't notice the change :-(


--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or
for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Phys Adepts, you may also be interested in:

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