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Message no. 1
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:49:33 +0200
Has anyone considered (or actualy used) the thought of letting the Physad
with that Improved Reflexes 2 make his check weather or not he slashes at
his friend with his weapon for patting him on the back?

If named Physad has to check for reaction or Willpower like a Sam, is there
a Power that grants the Physad the same effects like the Reflextrigger for
the Sam?

I mean, O.K. The Atributes that a Physad raises by his Magic are considered
natural, but does that mean he can handle the situation more carefeully as
he simply has a better understanding of his abilities than a Sam par
example has?

Or comes the Trigger with the Power for no extra cost?

I came to that question as even the Physad has to take the Sound Dampening
Power if he not wants to let his ears bleed to death if he has the Improved
Hearing Power.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 2
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:56:04 -0400
On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Steadfast wrote:

->Has anyone considered (or actualy used) the thought of letting the Physad
->with that Improved Reflexes 2 make his check weather or not he slashes at
->his friend with his weapon for patting him on the back?

No. The physad is so in tune with his instincts that when someone
surprises him his instincts identify the target first, then take the
instinctivly approrpiate response. No active though is necessary because
the instinct/reflexes/reaction of the physad are so 'in-tune' with the
conscious thoughts.

->I came to that question as even the Physad has to take the Sound Dampening
->Power if he not wants to let his ears bleed to death if he has the Improved
->Hearing Power.

Where does it say that? I just say if the physad DOESN'T get the
power and is attacked by a sonic attack, the power of the attack in
increased by 2, whereas the Damper would reduce it by two and ignore the
hearing amp penalty.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 3
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:47:14 -0400
At 05:49 PM 10-10-98 +0200, you wrote:

>Has anyone considered (or actualy used) the thought of letting the Physad
>with that Improved Reflexes 2 make his check weather or not he slashes at
>his friend with his weapon for patting him on the back?
>
>--->Steadfast

As a rule of thumb, adepts almost never have negative consequences for
possessing their abilities. Unlike a sam who's got a piece of hardware
telling his brain and body to do things they're not equipped for (and
possibly can't handle), part of the adept's magic is being perfectly
adapted to his abilities. That's part of the reason why the adept spends a
B priority and the sam doesn't.

Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 4
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:00:23 +0200
And so it came to happen that Fixer wrote:
----------
> ->Has anyone considered (or actualy used) the thought of letting the
Physad
> ->with that Improved Reflexes 2 make his check weather or not he slashes
at
> ->his friend with his weapon for patting him on the back?
>
> No. The physad is so in tune with his instincts that when
someone
> surprises him his instincts identify the target first, then take the
> instinctivly approrpiate response. No active though is necessary because
> the instinct/reflexes/reaction of the physad are so 'in-tune' with the
> conscious thoughts.
>
> ->I came to that question as even the Physad has to take the Sound
Dampening
> ->Power if he not wants to let his ears bleed to death if he has the
Improved
> ->Hearing Power.
>
> Where does it say that? I just say if the physad DOESN'T get the
> power and is attacked by a sonic attack, the power of the attack in
> increased by 2, whereas the Damper would reduce it by two and ignore the
> hearing amp penalty.

Thats it. Even the Physad have to take Sounddampening in order to do not
get the +2 if he has Improved Hearing. Same as the Sam has to if gets his
cybered Hearing Augmentation. There the Physad is not so in tune with
his... ah, I see now what you mean.
So the Physad has a higher Intelligence Rating for using the Improved
Reflexes as he would deem a friend not a valid target. Hm, but that sounds
to me like wasting time as this thinking could cost you your neck.
"Hm, don't I know this guy? Oh, no it's not Timmy, I will have to half him
in... BANG..."
OTOH I will live with this, sounds fair, better don't make the Physads a
bit weaker by now.
;o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 5
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:00:25 +0200
And so it came to happen that Starjammer wrote:
----------
> >Has anyone considered (or actualy used) the thought of letting the
Physad
> >with that Improved Reflexes 2 make his check weather or not he slashes
at
> >his friend with his weapon for patting him on the back?
> >
> >--->Steadfast
>
> As a rule of thumb, adepts almost never have negative consequences for
> possessing their abilities. Unlike a sam who's got a piece of hardware
> telling his brain and body to do things they're not equipped for (and
> possibly can't handle), part of the adept's magic is being perfectly
> adapted to his abilities. That's part of the reason why the adept spends
a
> B priority and the sam doesn't.

Yes, but than the Physad can get cyber while the Sam can't get Adepts
powers like Killing Hands or Astral Perception. I Allways thought thats why
the Physad have to take the B Priority. And there does it state that Adepts
don't get the badside of things, although it sounds logic in a way.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 6
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:33:17 -0400
At 04:00 AM 10-11-98 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Yes, but than the Physad can get cyber while the Sam can't get Adepts
>powers like Killing Hands or Astral Perception. I Allways thought thats why
>the Physad have to take the B Priority. And there does it state that Adepts
>don't get the badside of things, although it sounds logic in a way.
>
>--->Steadfast

I don't know that it's written anywhere; it just seems to be one of those
things that everyone agrees on by fiat. In any case, I'm not going to even
touch the whole "sams and adepts" argument. Just consider that the upside
of cyber is that anyone can get significant amounts of it for money, while
adept powers have the upside that they're effectively natural for the
adept, no side effects. Cyber has the downside of side effects, and adept
powers have the downside of requiring a magic priority and being limited by
the adept's magic rating.


Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 7
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 00:22:05 -0500
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Date: Saturday, October 10, 1998 9:04 PM

>Yes, but than the Physad can get cyber while the Sam can't get Adepts
>powers like Killing Hands or Astral Perception.

Of course, if the adept gets the cyber, he starts to lose adept powers.
Gotta ask yourself it it's worth the trade-off.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 8
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 00:30:04 -0500
On Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:33:17 -0400 Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
writes:
>At 04:00 AM 10-11-98 +0200, you wrote:
<SNIP>
>I don't know that it's written anywhere; it just seems to be one of
those
>things that everyone agrees on by fiat. In any case, I'm not going to
even
>touch the whole "sams and adepts" argument. Just consider that the
upside
>of cyber is that anyone can get significant amounts of it for money,
while
>adept powers have the upside that they're effectively natural for the
>adept, no side effects. Cyber has the downside of side effects, and
adept
>powers have the downside of requiring a magic priority and being limited
by
>the adept's magic rating.

Adepts have more limitations than most people realize, I think:
1) As someone mentioned on another thread, sams can buy different grades
of cyberware, adepts are stuck at base cost unless they want to restrict
the use of their powers (ie, take a geas.).

2) A sam can switch implanted cyberware for other ware while an adept is
stuck with his powers once the points have been assigned. (I even make
adepts replace lost magic points through intiation before they can get
new powers. [For this, adepts list their powers as they're assigned and
in what order they will be lost.])

I also, btw, believe that physical adept abilities, and magical abilities
in general, do not sufer from the same handicaps as technological
versions of the same. I believe this based off the effectiveness of
natural vision enhancements versus technological vision enhancements (see
"Low-Light and Thermal Systems" on pages 79-81 of FoF.).

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid

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Message no. 9
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:49:58 EDT
In a message dated 10/10/98 7:05:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
laughingman@*******.DE writes:

> > As a rule of thumb, adepts almost never have negative consequences for
> > possessing their abilities. Unlike a sam who's got a piece of hardware
> > telling his brain and body to do things they're not equipped for (and
> > possibly can't handle), part of the adept's magic is being perfectly
> > adapted to his abilities. That's part of the reason why the adept spends
> a
> > B priority and the sam doesn't.
>
> Yes, but than the Physad can get cyber while the Sam can't get Adepts
> powers like Killing Hands or Astral Perception. I Allways thought thats why
> the Physad have to take the B Priority. And there does it state that Adepts
> don't get the badside of things, although it sounds logic in a way.
See I always thought a Sam with wired-2 had to take Resources at priority A or
B to get some of those nifty little gadgets?
I use a modified rule, that uses an intelligence roll (target number half-
reaction);
the subject loses a number of actions based on 2-successes for an adept,
3-successes for a cyber-junkie, 4- successes for a spell enhanced reflexes.
(this is mainly to reflect the amount of time and training with such a
reflex boost, and the natural-ness of the actions)
(note also that the spell-enhanced character will usually be totally unused
to having such reflexes, but ill still <usually> have a low reaction <hence
target number> and so will not be too bad off)
The lost actions are based on a flight or fight setting, depending on the
character.
Message no. 10
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:56:30 -0400
On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Starjammer wrote:

->At 04:00 AM 10-11-98 +0200, you wrote:
->>
->>Yes, but than the Physad can get cyber while the Sam can't get Adepts
->>powers like Killing Hands or Astral Perception. I Allways thought thats why
->>the Physad have to take the B Priority. And there does it state that Adepts
->>don't get the badside of things, although it sounds logic in a way.
->>
->>--->Steadfast
->
->I don't know that it's written anywhere; it just seems to be one of those
->things that everyone agrees on by fiat. In any case, I'm not going to even
->touch the whole "sams and adepts" argument. Just consider that the upside
->of cyber is that anyone can get significant amounts of it for money, while
->adept powers have the upside that they're effectively natural for the
->adept, no side effects. Cyber has the downside of side effects, and adept
->powers have the downside of requiring a magic priority and being limited by
->the adept's magic rating.

As well as being generally less skilled in the long term because
they spent their Karma on their magical abilities rather than their
skills. Money, for an adept, isn't of great use except for lifestyles,
contacts & perhaps a few minor toys, but it's not of the use that cyber is
to a samurai.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 11
From: Jonathan P Martin <devotelyapathetic@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and Improved Reflexes
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:07:57 -0400
On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:15:16 -0400 Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
writes:

>I have 2 words for you:
> Weapon Focus

Oh yes, because I forgot that Phyads have so much extra karma
lying
around to bond the silly thing. Not to mention the ability to defend
something with
a large astral presense so effectively. In base SR2 rules they aren't
really worth it
after chargen, the Karma should go towards initiation or even, <Gasp>
skills. If you
use "Force points-to-iniatiate" during chargen they aren't worth it at
all. Weapon focus's
are really dangerous, but can be taken away and rendered really useless
if you get pinned
down by gunfire. They were a neat idea but just in the wrong game.

When I make a physad, I try and give him some science background
and also some tech skills. I use my extra gobs of money to design new
toys. No
karma involved but lots of neat things to keep ya occupied.

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Further Reading

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