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Message no. 1
From: Ben Frech <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 13:29:26 -0700
I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:

Priorities
A Resources
B adept
C attrib
D skill
E race

Attributes:
6 in str

with the physad powers buy:
increased armed combat +4 dice
Increase reflexes +2D6

Gear:
buy a level 6 weapon focus (katana)

Skills: specialize in katana, you get 8 dice

This way you get (STR + 6 + 3)M damage, and 18 dice to roll in the
skill, without combat pool.

I'm sorry about this sad display of munchkinism. :(

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech
frech@********.com
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
Message no. 2
From: Amper <amper@****.DATANET.HU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:17:25 +0200
> I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
> as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:
>

It's depend of the GM. I don't konw any rule, but my opinion: no.

> Priorities
> A Resources
> B adept
> C attrib
> D skill
> E race
>
> Attributes:
> 6 in str
>
> with the physad powers buy:
> increased armed combat +4 dice
> Increase reflexes +2D6
>
> Gear:
> buy a level 6 weapon focus (katana)

And bond it about 24 karma or more (I don't know it exactly). And either
can he use the mage points from the resources or not, it's depend of the
GM, too.

> Skills: specialize in katana, you get 8 dice
>
> This way you get (STR + 6 + 3)M damage, and 18 dice to roll in the
> skill, without combat pool.

It's trouh in the astral combat, but in the mundane combat he has just
(STR + 3)M damage and 18 dice.

> I'm sorry about this sad display of munchkinism. :(

It's a wery experienced phys.ad after a lot of run, or a not very good
GM, who don't look the game ballance.

--
,--\/----\/----\/----\/----\/-,
l / l
l AmpeR by Hungary /_ l
l Programmer & RPG player / l
l amper@****.datanet.hu / l
l \/ l
l_/\/\__/\/\__/\/\__/\/\__/\/\l
Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:54:40 -0400
Ben Frech once dared to write,

>I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
>as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:

While it is possible to purchase such a weapon focus at CharGen the
PhysAd has no force points to bond with.

<MC23 sits pondering the original debate/flame where he made his
debut on ShadowRN>

Although it was apparently an oversight by FASA in the SRII rulebook
it is the FASA policy that PhysAds do not get force points at CharGen.
The original rule was from Grimoire 1st (where adepts were first
introduced) where it talked about adepts and resources. The rule was that
any adept that does not cast spells gets no force points at CharGen.

I wrote a lot on this subject on the validness and balance of such a
rule (and a lot of flames and replies to flames as well) and I hope I do
not have to again.

- MC23, who thinks his old war wound is acting up again -
<sitting on the porch>
"yup, I reckon it's gonna flame."
Message no. 4
From: Ben Frech <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:21:04 -0700
MC23 wrote:
>
> Ben Frech once dared to write,
>
> >I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
> >as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:
>
> While it is possible to purchase such a weapon focus at CharGen the
> PhysAd has no force points to bond with.
>
> <MC23 sits pondering the original debate/flame where he made his
> debut on ShadowRN>
>
> Although it was apparently an oversight by FASA in the SRII rulebook
> it is the FASA policy that PhysAds do not get force points at CharGen.
> The original rule was from Grimoire 1st (where adepts were first
> introduced) where it talked about adepts and resources. The rule was that
> any adept that does not cast spells gets no force points at CharGen.
>
> I wrote a lot on this subject on the validness and balance of such a
> rule (and a lot of flames and replies to flames as well) and I hope I do
> not have to again.
>

That's what I thought, though it never says (in the main rulebook) that
physads cant use force points. Thx.

> - MC23, who thinks his old war wound is acting up again -
> <sitting on the porch>
> "yup, I reckon it's gonna flame."

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech
frech@********.com
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
Message no. 5
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 00:20:53 +-200
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Weapon foci rating adds to skill only , not weapon power. I believe it =
is, if not in the rules, a very common house rule, that starting =
physads, mages and so on
may spend 'force points' on bonding equipment. Assuming the same physad
instead had armed combat 6, specialized in katana, uses a rating 6
weapon foci katana for 14 skill, then spends all his physad points on
edged weapons.. he'd roll 26 dice w.o. combat pool with that weapon.

Sad munchkinism... yes. He'd be able to do nothing else; if he lost his =
katana
and got a normal katana, he'd only get 16 dice base with it. (ONLY!!)
He also spent as much money on it that someone else could have spent
on making an attack gunship - it's a risky use of resources.

This assumes the following:
Weapon foci skill increase *IS* a skill increase, not just added =
dice,
and so increases the amount of dice that can be added from physad =
power
or combat pool.

Munchkinism? Seriously.. use a Halberd or similar weapon - THEN it'd
be munchkin... if the GM didn't stop him.

----------
From: Ben Frech[SMTP:frech@***.COM]
Sent: 26. april 1997 22:29
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Physads and weapon foci

I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:

Priorities
A Resources
B adept
C attrib
D skill
E race

Attributes:
6 in str

with the physad powers buy:
increased armed combat +4 dice
Increase reflexes +2D6

Gear:
buy a level 6 weapon focus (katana)

Skills: specialize in katana, you get 8 dice

This way you get (STR + 6 + 3)M damage, and 18 dice to roll in the
skill, without combat pool.

I'm sorry about this sad display of munchkinism. :(

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech
frech@********.com
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/



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Message no. 6
From: Ben Frech <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:57:50 -0700
Rune Fostervoll wrote:
>
> Weapon foci rating adds to skill only , not weapon power.

I misread the paragraph on weapon foci: it adds its rating to damage
in astral combat, not physical. My mistake. :\

> I believe it is,
> if not in the rules, a very common house rule, that starting physads, mages
> and so on may spend 'force points' on bonding equipment. Assuming the same
> physad instead had armed combat 6, specialized in katana, uses a rating 6
> weapon foci katana for 14 skill, then spends all his physad points on
> edged weapons.. he'd roll 26 dice w.o. combat pool with that weapon.
>

I thought the most you could get is 18 + combat pool:
8 for katana specialization + 4 from physad powers + 6 for weapon focus

> Sad munchkinism... yes. He'd be able to do nothing else; if he lost his katana
> and got a normal katana, he'd only get 16 dice base with it. (ONLY!!)
> He also spent as much money on it that someone else could have spent
> on making an attack gunship - it's a risky use of resources.
>
> This assumes the following:
> Weapon foci skill increase *IS* a skill increase, not just added dice,
> and so increases the amount of dice that can be added from physad power
> or combat pool.

I don't think this is the case...

>
> Munchkinism? Seriously.. use a Halberd or similar weapon - THEN it'd
> be munchkin... if the GM didn't stop him.
>
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech
frech@********.com
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
Message no. 7
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:35:09 +1000
> I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
> as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:

Not if you use the rule that stops them buying equipment with an
availability of over 6. Also, even if you had it, bonding it is another
thing. Some GM's allow the physads to spend force points to bond, others
don't.

> This way you get (STR + 6 + 3)M damage, and 18 dice to roll in the
> skill, without combat pool.

They don't add to your strength when you attack with a weapon focus, it
only gives you extra dice.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:31:53 +0100
Ben Frech said on 13:29/26 Apr 97...

> I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
> as starting equipment?

There was a BIG debate over this some months ago. Some people are against
allowing physads to buy any kind of foci, while others say "why not?" I'm
one of the latter, on the basis that the things cost so much money that
hardly any physad will take one.

> Otherwise you might get somthing like this:
[snip]
> This way you get (STR + 6 + 3)M damage, and 18 dice to roll in the
> skill, without combat pool.

The focus doesn't add its rating to the Power Level, but otherwise you're
right.

> I'm sorry about this sad display of munchkinism. :(

Well, if you actually make a character like this, (s)he'll be able to do
just about nothing except take a hack with the katana at whatever's going
on. Outside of melee combat, this character is dead meat -- and we all
know how fond bad guys are of guns, don't we? *GM grin*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I just know that something good is going to happen.
I don't know when...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:31:53 +0100
MC23 said on 17:54/26 Apr 97...

> <MC23 sits pondering the original debate/flame where he made his
> debut on ShadowRN>

Keep that one in mind before you try to do it again :)

> Although it was apparently an oversight by FASA in the SRII rulebook
> it is the FASA policy that PhysAds do not get force points at CharGen.
> The original rule was from Grimoire 1st (where adepts were first
> introduced) where it talked about adepts and resources. The rule was that
> any adept that does not cast spells gets no force points at CharGen.

However, IIRC, Mike (Mulvihill) liked the idea of giving physads Force
Points to buy a weapon focus from anyway.

Still, I'd say it is up to the individual GM to decide whether or not to
allow physads (and any other adepts) Force Points. I do, but I think I've
only seen two people play adepts of any kind over the years, and none of
them bought any foci for lack of money.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I just know that something good is going to happen.
I don't know when...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 10
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:45:54 -0400
Gurth once dared to write,

>MC23 said on 17:54/26 Apr 97...
>
>> <MC23 sits pondering the original debate/flame where he made his
>> debut on ShadowRN>
>
>Keep that one in mind before you try to do it again :)

Make another debut? B>]#
>
>However, IIRC, Mike (Mulvihill) liked the idea of giving physads Force
>Points to buy a weapon focus from anyway.

Like I've never butted heads with Mike before. He is also in favor
of the unbalanced meta-varients from the companion. Game mechanic balance
is not what I would call one of his strong points. Being against the
Immortal Elves conspiracy on the other hand.
<grumbling about the Companion under his breathe again>
>
>Still, I'd say it is up to the individual GM to decide whether or not to
>allow physads (and any other adepts) Force Points. I do, but I think I've
>only seen two people play adepts of any kind over the years, and none of
>them bought any foci for lack of money.

I ended up writing personally to Mike after the whole Force points
controversy suggesting a more political answer for it. (Being attacked by
everyone on this list for weeks for my stance on this really wore on me).
What I suggested for a new "company answer" is that non-spell casting
adepts receive no Force points at CharGen, but because of ommision of
that rule in the 2nd rules, GM's have the option of allowing it.
I'm still against force points at CharGen for non spell casters.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 11
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:51:59 -0400
Gurth once dared to write,

>Well, if you actually make a character like this, (s)he'll be able to do
>just about nothing except take a hack with the katana at whatever's going
>on. Outside of melee combat, this character is dead meat -- and we all
>know how fond bad guys are of guns, don't we? *GM grin*

Or how about how fond the really cool evil bad guys are of ritual
magic. "Work for me and I'll dispel my curse. And don't think about
crossing me because I can just as easily kill you the same way." <Insert
evil music or a maniacal laugh track here>


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:31:38 +0100
MC23 said on 10:45/27 Apr 97...

> >Keep that one in mind before you try to do it again :)
>
> Make another debut? B>]#

Why not? It's never too late to make a first impression and all that :)

> Like I've never butted heads with Mike before. He is also in favor
> of the unbalanced meta-varients from the companion. Game mechanic balance
> is not what I would call one of his strong points. Being against the
> Immortal Elves conspiracy on the other hand.
> <grumbling about the Companion under his breathe again>

I have to agree about the metahumans. Although Mike claims the metahumans
in SRII just "happened" to all end up with +3 Attribute points and some
other kind of bonus to compensate a lower running multiplier, I don't buy
it. It's too regular to be coincidence... The new types in the Companion
are, well, nice, but I didn't really like most of them because to me they
feel like they break the "rules" set by the other metahumans (and I'll add
that I don't strive for absolute game balance. Kind of wobbly is much
better IMHO, but let's not get into that :)

> I ended up writing personally to Mike after the whole Force points
> controversy suggesting a more political answer for it. (Being attacked by
> everyone on this list for weeks for my stance on this really wore on me).

You had yourself to blame for that, I think... Still, you've gotten much
better since then :)

> What I suggested for a new "company answer" is that non-spell casting
> adepts receive no Force points at CharGen, but because of ommision of
> that rule in the 2nd rules, GM's have the option of allowing it.
> I'm still against force points at CharGen for non spell casters.

I'm in favor of them having Force Points, but in the end it comes down to
whether the GM thinks it's appropriate, for whatever reasons (s)he cares
to come up with. You can argue over it, jump high and low, and it still
won't solve anything either way...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't tell me about the answer
'Cause then another one will come along soon
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 13
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:54:06 -0700
---Ben Frech wrote:
>
> I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon
foci
> as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:

Unless the GM has a limitation on starting gear that may be purchased
(as I do), there would be nothing to keep you from buying a weapon
focus to start. Hwever, you still need to bond it. Unless your GM also
allows you to convert starting force points into karma...it's gonna
take you a little while before your mage blade is gonna do you any
munchkinny good. ;o)

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 14
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 01:52:54 -0500
At 03:54 PM 4/27/97 -0700, you wrote:
>---Ben Frech wrote:
>>
>> I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon
>foci
>> as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:
>
>Unless the GM has a limitation on starting gear that may be purchased
>(as I do), there would be nothing to keep you from buying a weapon
>focus to start. Hwever, you still need to bond it. Unless your GM also
>allows you to convert starting force points into karma...it's gonna
>take you a little while before your mage blade is gonna do you any
>munchkinny good. ;o)
>

SR Companion does allow force points to be conmverted to karma.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: Loki <gamemstr@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:00:58 -0700
> >> I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon
> >foci
> >> as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:
> >
> >Unless the GM has a limitation on starting gear that may be purchased
> >(as I do), there would be nothing to keep you from buying a weapon
> >focus to start. Hwever, you still need to bond it. Unless your GM also
> >allows you to convert starting force points into karma...it's gonna
> >take you a little while before your mage blade is gonna do you any
> >munchkinny good. ;o)
> >
>
> SR Companion does allow force points to be conmverted to karma.
> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
> (c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|


As an optional rule. That's my whole point. In any given game a GM may or
may not allow the physad to bond the foci he's purchased.

Also Shadowrun Companion, page 21 under Build Point system says " Note that
physical adept characters do not begin the game with 30 Force Points."
Going by this ruling the physad would be stuck with a nice shiny toy he
can't bond.
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:29:38 +0100
Loki said on 15:54/27 Apr 97...

> Unless the GM has a limitation on starting gear that may be purchased
> (as I do), there would be nothing to keep you from buying a weapon
> focus to start. Hwever, you still need to bond it. Unless your GM also
> allows you to convert starting force points into karma...it's gonna
> take you a little while before your mage blade is gonna do you any
> munchkinny good. ;o)

You're forgetting that Force Points can be used to bond foci -- buy a
rating 6 power focus at character generation and it'll cost you 630,000
nuyen and 6 Force Points. If the GM allows Force Points for (physical)
adepts, the same rule applies.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't tell me about the answer
'Cause then another one will come along soon
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 17
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:36:23 GMT
Ben Frech writes

> I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
> as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:
>
Yes they can. Wether they can bond them seems to be a GM descision,
opinion seems in favour that the official position is probably not
but a bit of common sense allows physads force that can only be spent
on weapon foci and not anything else (or traded for build points etc.)

> A Resources
> B adept

> Attributes:
> 6 in str
>
> with the physad powers buy:
> increased armed combat +4 dice
> Increase reflexes +2D6
>
> Gear:
> buy a level 6 weapon focus (katana)
>
> Skills: specialize in katana, you get 8 dice
>
> This way you get (STR + 6 + 3)M damage,
The weapon focus does not add to physical damage code so it does 9M.
If the adept had astral perception and engaged in astral combat the
damage code is charisma plus 1/2 the focus rating rounded down
moderate.

> and 18 dice to roll in the
> skill, without combat pool.
>
yes :)

> I'm sorry about this sad display of munchkinism. :(
>
Not really, you have to close range, i'll just let you have a bit of
fun, gyromounted ingram valient, full auto, smartgun and GV4, 2's to
hit, incomming 17D enjoy please :) and anyone can have that!

Note lonestar is rather against folks with swords and LMG's wandering
about the streets and neither hurts the swat teams mobmaster :)

Mark
Message no. 18
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:23:29 -0400
Gurth once dared to write,

>You're forgetting that Force Points can be used to bond foci -- buy a
>rating 6 power focus at character generation and it'll cost you 630,000
>nuyen and 6 Force Points. If the GM allows Force Points for (physical)
>adepts, the same rule applies.

Whoah now. It will cost a lot more than 6 force points to bond with
a rating 6 power focus. Force Points spent this way would be the same as
if they were Karma. I expect better from you. Typing late?


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 19
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:26:43 -0400
Mark Steedman once dared to write,

>Yes they can. Wether they can bond them seems to be a GM descision,
>opinion seems in favour that the official position is probably not
>but a bit of common sense allows physads force that can only be spent
>on weapon foci and not anything else (or traded for build points etc.)

If you use build points from the companion then you should have
noticed that PhysAds get no force points so they would have none to trade
back in. Although I do not care for the point system I see no problems
with spending build points to get force points to bond with.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 20
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:31:05 -0400
Sam Thomas once dared to write,

>SR Companion does allow force points to be conmverted to karma.

The main book allows force points to be used like karma for bonding
at CharGen. My arguement was over who gets those force points at CharGen.
Only those adepts that cast spells are _supposed_ to. Unfortunately that
was overlooked when the rules when the 2nd edition came out which is
where the original arguement came from.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 21
From: MENARD Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:57:44 -0400
On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Gurth wrote:

> Loki said on 15:54/27 Apr 97...
>
> > Unless the GM has a limitation on starting gear that may be purchased
> > (as I do), there would be nothing to keep you from buying a weapon
> > focus to start. Hwever, you still need to bond it. Unless your GM also
> > allows you to convert starting force points into karma...it's gonna
> > take you a little while before your mage blade is gonna do you any
> > munchkinny good. ;o)
>
> You're forgetting that Force Points can be used to bond foci -- buy a
> rating 6 power focus at character generation and it'll cost you 630,000
> nuyen and 6 Force Points. If the GM allows Force Points for (physical)
> adepts, the same rule applies.
>
I thought force points acted as karma points for bonding foci. Meaning,
that force 6 weapon focus would have cost you 42 force points (assuming
weapon foci costs rating X7). At least, that's how we play it. Heck, we
even let mages and adepts spend 18 force points to become level 0
self-initiate at creation! Seemed only fair since other characters,
especially samurai, have the choice to go looking in other books
(shadowtech, street sam, and either cybertech or FoF).

> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> Don't tell me about the answer
> 'Cause then another one will come along soon
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
> -> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
>
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>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:47:47 -0700
---Gurth wrote:
>
> You're forgetting that Force Points can be used to bond foci -- buy a
> rating 6 power focus at character generation and it'll cost you
630,000
> nuyen and 6 Force Points. If the GM allows Force Points for
(physical)
> adepts, the same rule applies.

That's been my whole point all along. _IF_ the GM allows it for
physads. The operative word being _IF_. If the player is in a game
where he's able to use force poitns as karma with his physad, then
he's in luck and can bond his weapon foci. If he's in a game where the
GM doesn't allow this OPTIONAL rule, then he's outta luck and paid way
too much to start with a fancy sword.

That's all I'm trying to say, I haven't forgotten about the optional
rule for force points as karma. I'm just trying to point out it may
not apply in any given game.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 23
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:20:59 -0500
On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Gurth wrote:

> Loki said on 15:54/27 Apr 97...
>
> > Unless the GM has a limitation on starting gear that may be purchased
> > (as I do), there would be nothing to keep you from buying a weapon
> > focus to start. Hwever, you still need to bond it. Unless your GM also
> > allows you to convert starting force points into karma...it's gonna
> > take you a little while before your mage blade is gonna do you any
> > munchkinny good. ;o)
>
> You're forgetting that Force Points can be used to bond foci -- buy a
> rating 6 power focus at character generation and it'll cost you 630,000
> nuyen and 6 Force Points. If the GM allows Force Points for (physical)
> adepts, the same rule applies.
>
wouldnt that be 30 force points? (5 * raiting) SRII p137

Accually we have a <alert>HOUSE RULE</alert>, that all magical
characters startwith force points, but no more than 12 may be spent on
bonding and/or initation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"It's not the heat, it's the humidity.It's not the voltage, it's the current.
It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
- Jeff Vogel
Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:34:16 +0100
MC23 said on 11:23/28 Apr 97...

> Whoah now. It will cost a lot more than 6 force points to bond with
> a rating 6 power focus. Force Points spent this way would be the same as
> if they were Karma. I expect better from you.

Yep, you're right. A slight slip-up of me, a power focus would cost
630,000 nuyen and 30 Force Points to buy. The advantage over buying it
during play is in the Street Index of 2, which you now don't have to take
into account.

> Typing late?

I think I typed it in the morning, before I was fully awake (like, around
11 o'clock :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't tell me about the answer
'Cause then another one will come along soon
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 25
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:38:41 GMT
MC23 writes

> Mark Steedman once dared to write,
>
My Carp shelters quite intact thanks :)

> >Yes they can. Wether they can bond them seems to be a GM descision,
> >opinion seems in favour that the official position is probably not
> >but a bit of common sense allows physads force that can only be spent
> >on weapon foci and not anything else (or traded for build points etc.)
>
> If you use build points from the companion then you should have
> noticed that PhysAds get no force points so they would have none to trade
> back in.
Yes however as folks have pointed out SR2 does not ban them from
acquiring them.
By the book you may be correct but Physad is 15 build point and
phisical magician (Awakenings) is an A priority, hence 20 and gives
you 30 free force points worth 15 building points! plus heaps of
other advantages so i think it quite fair that a physical adept
should get 30 to spend on weapon foci only that CANNOT be traded in.
Having built various characters i find the building point system ok
for Human mundanes and any high resources characters but it breaks
down for low resources magicians in style mostly because A atts is 30
atts cost 60 point, A skills is 40 points only 40 building points,
and an A in magic only cost 20! this just does not work. Oh and meta
humans 10!
It does work very nicely for some types of characters though which is
pretty well done given the options it opens up.

> Although I do not care for the point system I see no problems
> with spending build points to get force points to bond with.
>
See above why this though reasonable is totally unfair to the poor
adept, the cost is ridiculous.

Mark
Message no. 26
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:37:55 -0400
Mark Steedman once dared to write,

>Yes however as folks have pointed out SR2 does not ban them from
>acquiring them.
Which was an over sight. FASA did come back and say PhysAds were not
supposed to have Force points. Grimoire 1st edition and the point system
from the companion both say no. People have still wanted to disregard
both sources just because they don't want to know that.
I hate rules lawyers especially when they disrupt game balance.
Jumping all over rules omissions and oversights just to take advantage of
it really irks me.

<snip on point system balance>
>See above why this though reasonable is totally unfair to the poor
>adept, the cost is ridiculous.
Poor reason for me since I thought the point system was flawed to
start with. Your observations just point out further examples to justify
my stance. I never bothered to read it once I saw that it was a linear
progression. PhysAds do seem to get the short end of the stick when it
comes to the early stages of CharGen (either one) but I do not believe
force points at CharGen are the answer.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 27
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:41:41 -0500
Date: 29 Apr 97 Time: 9:34
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci

TO: Gurth

> Yep, you're right. A slight slip-up of me, a power focus would cost
> 630,000 nuyen and 30 Force Points to buy. The advantage over buying
> it during play is in the Street Index of 2, which you now don't have
> to take into account.

Hmm. In the game I was playing over the weekend, the index was
listed as 3. :(

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Thought for the day:
Book (n): a utensil used to pass time while waiting
for the TV repairman.
Message no. 28
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:31:35 GMT
MC23 writes

> Mark Steedman once dared to write,
>
> >Yes however as folks have pointed out SR2 does not ban them from
> >acquiring them.
> Which was an over sight. FASA did come back and say PhysAds were not
> supposed to have Force points. Grimoire 1st edition and the point system
> from the companion both say no. People have still wanted to disregard
> both sources just because they don't want to know that.
I have not read 1st edition having played the game 2nded only and the
companions ommision could be taken as an oversight on that basis as
FASA seem from just 2nded material to ignore this proble. The
companion does not say physical adepts don't get force points it just
totally ignores the issue.
You could be correct fine, but i never tried to claim that the book
said they did get them, just i though they should regardless of how
you read the book. Sorry to go on but you appear to imply i'm getting
something wrong where i'm not trying to claim anything!

> I hate rules lawyers especially when they disrupt game balance.
> Jumping all over rules omissions and oversights just to take advantage of
> it really irks me.
>
And most folks.

> <snip on point system balance>
> >See above why this though reasonable is totally unfair to the poor
> >adept, the cost is ridiculous.
> Poor reason for me since I thought the point system was flawed to
> start with. Your observations just point out further examples to justify
> my stance. I never bothered to read it once I saw that it was a linear
> progression.
I had a look at it properly on the basis folks were bound to want the
GM's opinion and theres nothing that pisses me off more than GM's
that insist on say NO NO NO without even listening to my point of
view. Sorry i understand but not in my game, well thats the GM's
privildge but I'm not listening to you is not.

> PhysAds do seem to get the short end of the stick when it
> comes to the early stages of CharGen (either one) but I do not believe
> force points at CharGen are the answer.
>
Agreed. You can build decent physical adepts but they really don't
come out too well from character generation while some initation and
a freindly mage and quickening and they do supurbly.

Mark
Message no. 29
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:27:55 -0400
Mark Steedman once dared to write,

>MC23 writes
>> I hate rules lawyers especially when they disrupt game balance.
>> Jumping all over rules omissions and oversights just to take advantage of
>> it really irks me.
>>
>And most folks.
>
Umm, did you imply that most folks hate rules lawyers or that I just
hate most people? I guess both are correct.

>I had a look at it properly on the basis folks were bound to want the
>GM's opinion and theres nothing that pisses me off more than GM's
>that insist on say NO NO NO without even listening to my point of
>view. Sorry i understand but not in my game, well thats the GM's
>privildge but I'm not listening to you is not.
I've explained the rational in detail during my first two active
weeks on this list. I'm sorry that you missed the original
debate/flame/whatever. I was the only one to take this stand while under
seige for it (yeah so I wasn't so nice either) and I only had one person
offer anything like an apology after FASAMike said the official FASA
stand is that PhysAds do not get force points. There were a few daring
enough to mediate and even make friends with me during all that. And I
did eventually make peace with Gurth.
Anyway there is a rational for why only certain adepts get force
points. If you need one I'll reexplain myself.

- MC23, who misses those first list members that befriended him -
"I wonder if I'm still kill filed out there?"


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 30
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:01:53 +1000
> > Whoah now. It will cost a lot more than 6 force points to bond with
> > a rating 6 power focus. Force Points spent this way would be the same as
> > if they were Karma. I expect better from you.
>
> Yep, you're right. A slight slip-up of me, a power focus would cost
> 630,000 nuyen and 30 Force Points to buy. The advantage over buying it
> during play is in the Street Index of 2, which you now don't have to take
> into account.

... but according to the rules, all that using SI does is it lets you
take 2 off the availability target number. If you've got a decent street
et you can probably get the focus without street index anyway!
(of course, who knows what registration procedures you have to go to buy
it legally, but that's not the point).

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 31
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:15:15 GMT
>edged weapons.. he'd roll 26 dice w.o. combat pool with that weapon.
>
>Sad munchkinism... yes. He'd be able to do nothing else; if he lost his katana
>and got a normal katana, he'd only get 16 dice base with it. (ONLY!!)
>He also spent as much money on it that someone else could have spent
>on making an attack gunship - it's a risky use of resources.

If you want to make it worse, add in the dual weapon rules....with only a
special skill of 1, he could roll 52 dice before combat pool.

(Although depending on how you rule the weapon focus to work, he might need
two.)
-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 32
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:35:37 -0500
Lady Jestyr proclaimed:
> > Yep, you're right. A slight slip-up of me, a power focus would cost
> > 630,000 nuyen and 30 Force Points to buy. The advantage over buying it
> > during play is in the Street Index of 2, which you now don't have to take
> > into account.

> ... but according to the rules, all that using SI does is it lets you
> take 2 off the availability target number. If you've got a decent street
> et you can probably get the focus without street index anyway!
> (of course, who knows what registration procedures you have to go to buy
> it legally, but that's not the point).

Where's it say that?! If that is actually in the rules, then we've been
doing it wrong all this time. As I understand it, Street Index is the
multiplier of the cost of equipment when buying it illicitly. So that Street
Index of a 2 means it costs twice as much when you buy it on the street. If it
was subtracted from the availability, why wouldn't they have just taken it off
of the availability in the first place. Also, why do things like the Predator
have a street index of .75? You can't subtract decimals from die rolls. If your
rule is in the book somewhere, PLEASE tell me where, my GM and I are going to
be in for a suprise.

-The Immortal Mental
Message no. 33
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:53:19 +1000
> > ... but according to the rules, all that using SI does is it lets you
> > take 2 off the availability target number. If you've got a decent street
> > et you can probably get the focus without street index anyway!
> > (of course, who knows what registration procedures you have to go to buy
> > it legally, but that's not the point).
>
> Where's it say that?! If that is actually in the rules, then we've been
> doing it wrong all this time. As I understand it, Street Index is the
> multiplier of the cost of equipment when buying it illicitly. So that Street
> Index of a 2 means it costs twice as much when you buy it on the street. If it
> was subtracted from the availability, why wouldn't they have just taken it off
> of the availability in the first place. Also, why do things like the Predator
> have a street index of .75? You can't subtract decimals from die rolls. If your
> rule is in the book somewhere, PLEASE tell me where, my GM and I are going to
> be in for a suprise.

No, sorry, you misunderstood. Okay, take a mythical Gun x. Availability
5, cost 650 nY, SI 1.5

If you make a street etiquette roll TN 5, you buy the gun legally,
paying 650 ny (don't apply street index). If you only try for TN 3
(Availability - 2) then you have to apply street index. Ie it will cost
you 975 nY. And that means you've bought it on the street, so there's
never any record you own it.

Applying street index to the price lets you take two off the
AVAILABILITY, the target number to find it.

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 34
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:54:14 -0400
At 06:35 PM 4/29/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Lady Jestyr proclaimed:
>> > Yep, you're right. A slight slip-up of me, a power focus would cost
>> > 630,000 nuyen and 30 Force Points to buy. The advantage over buying it
>> > during play is in the Street Index of 2, which you now don't have to take
>> > into account.
>
>> ... but according to the rules, all that using SI does is it lets you
>> take 2 off the availability target number. If you've got a decent street
>> et you can probably get the focus without street index anyway!
>> (of course, who knows what registration procedures you have to go to buy
>> it legally, but that's not the point).
>
> Where's it say that?! If that is actually in the rules, then we've been
>doing it wrong all this time. As I understand it, Street Index is the
>multiplier of the cost of equipment when buying it illicitly. So that Street
>Index of a 2 means it costs twice as much when you buy it on the street. If it
>was subtracted from the availability, why wouldn't they have just taken it off
>of the availability in the first place. Also, why do things like the Predator
>have a street index of .75? You can't subtract decimals from die rolls. If your
>rule is in the book somewhere, PLEASE tell me where, my GM and I are going to
>be in for a suprise.
>
>-The Immortal Mental
>

Do you really think I'd change the way I've been doing it for 6 years now if
there is such a rule.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ah at last! The TRANSFORMATION is complete!
For YEARS they mocked me! They took the name EMMANUEL LEWIS in vain!
But tonight RETRIBUTION will be mine!
For I am REBORN as --WEBSTER--, The adorable scamp of DOOM!
Ma'am's and Georges beware Webster walks the earth and he's got a
HANKERIN' for some SPANKERIN'!

Man did I nail this mad doctor routine or WHAT?
"Deadpool #4"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 35
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:31:05 EDT
On Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:27:55 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:

> "I wonder if I'm still kill filed out there?"

Yup.... I for one NEVER read your posts....oh..wait...

:)
~Tim (who's just kidding... Juno is too cheap, to enable filtering, and
it just takes too long to log into school to use Eudora.)
Message no. 36
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:31:06 EDT
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:53:19 +1000 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:

>No, sorry, you misunderstood. Okay, take a mythical Gun x.
>Availability
>5, cost 650 nY, SI 1.5
>
>If you make a street etiquette roll TN 5, you buy the gun legally,
>paying 650 ny (don't apply street index). If you only try for TN 3
>(Availability - 2) then you have to apply street index. Ie it will cost
>you 975 nY. And that means you've bought it on the street, so there's
>never any record you own it.

(this makes sense for things that are MORE expensive on the street, but
why bother rolling against a higher target number when something has a SI
of .75?)

>
>Applying street index to the price lets you take two off the
>AVAILABILITY, the target number to find it.

I always thought Availability was how hard it was to find PERIOD. And
BTW where is this "Availability -2, and apply SI" rule come from? I
don't remember seeing it.

SI is also why I buy certain things AFTER chargen... that way you can
take advantage of those things that have a SI that is less than 1 (why
pay full price when it's CHEAPER on the street?).

~Tim (OK, so what... everybody Min/Maxes a little...)
Message no. 37
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:44:44 GMT
MC23 writes

> Mark Steedman once dared to write,
>
> >MC23 writes
> >> I hate rules lawyers especially when they disrupt game balance.
> >> Jumping all over rules omissions and oversights just to take advantage of
> >> it really irks me.
> >>
> >And most folks.
> >
> Umm, did you imply that most folks hate rules lawyers or that I just
> hate most people? I guess both are correct.
The former, the latter would be quite an assumption based on what
little about someone can be gleaned from this very limited
environment. 'As do most folks' would have been better what come of
replying to mail at speed because i don't have large amounts of time
to send on it.

>
> >I had a look at it properly on the basis folks were bound to want the
> >GM's opinion and theres nothing that pisses me off more than GM's
> >that insist on say NO NO NO without even listening to my point of
> >view. Sorry i understand but not in my game, well thats the GM's
> >privildge but I'm not listening to you is not.
> I've explained the rational in detail during my first two active
> weeks on this list. I'm sorry that you missed the original
> debate/flame/whatever.
I saw all the origonal stuff about this. This comment was not aimed
at you rather an explanation of why i spent some time dismantling the
points system and working out where the flaws are and how usable it
really is. You have plenty of valid complaints but. I get annoyed by
GM's who seem to think that 'i will not discuss that subject' is a
valid answer to a player who is pretty certain he has found a point
that the GM has not considered. I have had this problem in games
other than SR.

> I was the only one to take this stand while under
> seige for it (yeah so I wasn't so nice either) and I only had one person
> offer anything like an apology after FASAMike said the official FASA
> stand is that PhysAds do not get force points.
I think i said at one point in this that i had a feeling that was the
case. This is what is keeping me going, from your mail it seems to me
that you are implying i am trying to cliam that this is not true. I
didn't try and claim that the book says they should get force points,
just that i don't see why they should not assuming common sense is
used by the GM to avoid rules munchkinous players and the companion
taking advantage of the fact in ways that were never intended.
I see it as very unfair that a mage or shaman can buy and bond a
weapon focus at startup and that a physical adept cannot. Adepts
already get a raw enough deal out of character generation as it is
thanks. Sure the book might agree with this position i didn't set out
to both about what the actual rules are.
Finaly although carry overs from 1st edition can be useful the 1sted
rulebook, Grimoire and virtual realities are obsolete and rules they
may contain may not carry over, come the 'magicians and decking
penalties' debate. Now can you leave alone the point i never tried to
make in the first place :)

> There were a few daring
> enough to mediate and even make friends with me during all that. And I
> did eventually make peace with Gurth.
That one eventually settled down peacefully. :)

> Anyway there is a rational for why only certain adepts get force
> points. If you need one I'll reexplain myself.
>
Yes but, see long comments above.

Mark
Message no. 38
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:20:09 +0100
TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.ED said on 18:35/29 Apr 97...

[snip Lady Jestyr's street index stuff]
> Where's it say that?! If that is actually in the rules, then we've been
> doing it wrong all this time. As I understand it, Street Index is the
> multiplier of the cost of equipment when buying it illicitly. So that Street
> Index of a 2 means it costs twice as much when you buy it on the street. If it
> was subtracted from the availability, why wouldn't they have just taken it off
> of the availability in the first place. Also, why do things like the Predator
> have a street index of .75? You can't subtract decimals from die rolls. If your
> rule is in the book somewhere, PLEASE tell me where, my GM and I are going to
> be in for a suprise.

Depending on where you look, LJ is right and wrong. The rules from page
184 of the Black Book give a +2 modifier for buying something illegally,
whereas Shadowtech says it's -2 (page 102). The Street Index is a
multiplier, as she explained already.

However, my SRII hardback says it's +2, which may be a typo and perhaps
should be -2. What do later printings (of the softback) say?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...and I make a difference too.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 39
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:31:37 +0100
Shaun Sides said on 8:41/29 Apr 97...

> > Yep, you're right. A slight slip-up of me, a power focus would cost
> > 630,000 nuyen and 30 Force Points to buy. The advantage over buying
> > it during play is in the Street Index of 2, which you now don't have
> > to take into account.
>
> Hmm. In the game I was playing over the weekend, the index was
> listed as 3. :(

Only for weapon foci, and although that's what the subject line says, I
was talking about power foci. SRII page 263 has all you need to know,
unless your GM starts modifying the Street Indices...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...and I make a difference too.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 40
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:31:37 +0100
MC23 said on 13:27/29 Apr 97...

> I've explained the rational in detail during my first two active
> weeks on this list. I'm sorry that you missed the original
> debate/flame/whatever.

Mark was around back then, I think... He's been here as long as I can
remember :)

> I was the only one to take this stand while under seige for it (yeah so
> I wasn't so nice either) and I only had one person offer anything like
> an apology after FASAMike said the official FASA stand is that PhysAds
> do not get force points.

Not trying to start another thread like that, but IMHO that's because Mike
feels they shouldn't have, while Tom Dowd possibly/probably thought "Let
'em have 'em." The only books that support your statement are the original
Grimoire (which has been superseded by the 2nd ed) and the Companion, and
even that only mentions it when referring to physads made with Building
Points.
In the end, ask your GM to see if you can make a physad with Force Points
or not, I'm not going to commit myself either way on this list apart from
saying that in _my_ game they get FPs.

> There were a few daring enough to mediate and even make friends with me
> during all that. And I did eventually make peace with Gurth.

That's not hard to do, I think... Unless you'd seriously offended me,
which you hadn't.

> - MC23, who misses those first list members that befriended him -
> "I wonder if I'm still kill filed out there?"

Let's see if anyone who has you killfiled replies to your post :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...and I make a difference too.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 41
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:34:10 GMT
Gurth writes

> Depending on where you look, LJ is right and wrong. The rules from page
> 184 of the Black Book give a +2 modifier for buying something illegally,
> whereas Shadowtech says it's -2 (page 102). The Street Index is a
> multiplier, as she explained already.
>
I knew i'd seen a rule like that someplace.

> However, my SRII hardback says it's +2, which may be a typo and perhaps
> should be -2. What do later printings (of the softback) say?
>
I don't think its changed but as i don't have the book here i cannot
check. I certainly don't remember it being on the Errata but then 1/2
the errata that is supposed to be in the soft cover isn't and there
are lots of problems (generally trivial so they don't matter) with
the Archtype characters that are not mentioned though FASA found an
error there my checks had not so.

My general policy is to use the Street indexes given for acquiring
stuff off the black market. This is on the policy that getting things
off your fixer should be the base method for runners who typically
need untraceable equipment. So it would be a bit silly to have you
modifying nearly every roll.
I typically have the fixer roll his equipment acquisition skill to
find things rather than the PC roll their etiquette, How well you can
talk your fixer round has little effect on his chances of finding a
'spare' panther cannon at short notice though it certainly can
influence the chances of him saving it for you. Therefore etiquette
can sometimes be worth calling for for unusual items.

A lot of the equipment listed should have an availablity of always if
you are buying it legally, sure security armour is rare on the
streets but if you are a licensed security firm with a legal copy of
the Ares security catalouge (street sams) then ringing up Ares is
kind of likely to get 'when would you like it by' rather than 'i'm
not sure if we have any in stock this month...'.

There are also rules someplace for increasing the likeihood of
getting something by offering more money. Its a -1TN per increment,
which is reasonable because if someone figures they can get 50K for
going on a run with a bit of kit or 100K profit off selling it they
are more likely to take the option involving you not them getting
shot at by corporate security.

Mark
Message no. 42
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:44:49 -0400
Gurth once dared to write,

>Not trying to start another thread like that, but IMHO that's because Mike
>feels they shouldn't have, while Tom Dowd possibly/probably thought "Let
>'em have 'em." The only books that support your statement are the original
>Grimoire (which has been superseded by the 2nd ed) and the Companion, and
>even that only mentions it when referring to physads made with Building
>Points.
Umm, you reversed Tom and Mike but you you I don't always agree with
Mike. Anyway two books directly say no and the others say nothing.
Therefore I could argue (who me argue?) that the others only approve it
through omission only.

>> - MC23, who misses those first list members that befriended him -
>> "I wonder if I'm still kill filed out there?"
>
>Let's see if anyone who has you kill filed replies to your post :)

They do all the time just to piss me off. B>]#

Actually I remember only one member who actually did, but there was a lot
more who advocated it, mostly for you to do.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 43
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:30:00 +0100
MC23 said on 9:44/30 Apr 97...

> Umm, you reversed Tom and Mike

I thought Mike was the one who said physads don't get Force Points... Oh
wel, who cares what a game designer thinks anyway? :)

[killfiling MC23]
> Actually I remember only one member who actually did, but there was a lot
> more who advocated it, mostly for you to do.

But then your messages would have ended up as unread in my Deleted Mail
folder, and I'd have checked them out as well (if I see a green folder
name, I _have_ to look in it :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...and I make a difference too.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 44
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:30:00 +0100
Mark Steedman said on 13:34/30 Apr 97...

> > However, my SRII hardback says it's +2, which may be a typo and perhaps
> > should be -2. What do later printings (of the softback) say?
> >
> I don't think its changed but as i don't have the book here i cannot
> check.

Shaun Sides told me that in his softcover book it's +2. Guess that's one
that slipped by the editors when it was time for a re-print...

> I certainly don't remember it being on the Errata but then 1/2 the
> errata that is supposed to be in the soft cover isn't and there are lots
> of problems (generally trivial so they don't matter) with the Archtype
> characters that are not mentioned though FASA found an error there my
> checks had not so.

The errata only solve the most obvious errors, and even then they manage
to get it wrong in a different way (the example on SRII page 93 being a
case in point). Plus there aren't errata for most books at all...

> My general policy is to use the Street indexes given for acquiring
> stuff off the black market. This is on the policy that getting things
> off your fixer should be the base method for runners who typically
> need untraceable equipment. So it would be a bit silly to have you
> modifying nearly every roll.

That's what I do too. If I have reason to believe the item can be found by
the PC in a store somewhere, I'll give them that option (if they ask for
it, of course) and charge them only normal price. On the black market it's
Street Index all the way.

> I typically have the fixer roll his equipment acquisition skill to
> find things rather than the PC roll their etiquette, How well you can
> talk your fixer round has little effect on his chances of finding a
> 'spare' panther cannon at short notice though it certainly can
> influence the chances of him saving it for you. Therefore etiquette
> can sometimes be worth calling for for unusual items.

My house rule stems from me interpreting the Availability in a bit of a
different way: I see it as the time the character takes to check
his contacts, let them know what he's looking for, and so on. In that way,
it's the Etiquette skill that counts because if you don't ask them the
right way, you're going to run into lots of negative answers.
Of course a character with Equipment Acquisition special skill can use
that instead.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...and I make a difference too.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 45
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:32:17 -0400
>Depending on where you look, LJ is right and wrong. The rules from page
>184 of the Black Book give a +2 modifier for buying something illegally,
>whereas Shadowtech says it's -2 (page 102). The Street Index is a
>multiplier, as she explained already.
>
>However, my SRII hardback says it's +2, which may be a typo and perhaps
>should be -2. What do later printings (of the softback) say?

Hmmm...IIRC, Shadowtech explains why it is -2......It's easier to find a
stolen item than to justify why you need one legally....and the costs of
stealing it are reflected in the Street index (for common items, if it is
all around easier to steal it, you get a SI less than 1)

They may have rethought this in going to srII....but if they don't explain,
I'd say it's a typo, since ST did explain....

Unless of course I am misremembering....

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 46
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:56:19 EDT
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:11:22 -0700 Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> writes:
>That's pretty much how we play it as well. Buying an item legally, I
>only require a credstick test to see if the Runner's fake ID comes up
>as D-code. Buying black market means there's no risk to the fake ID,
>but it requires the character make an etiquette test at the
>(unmodified) availabilty and you pay street index.

How would you run a credstick test? I always make characters do an
etiquette test when they decide they just need to have a monofilament
whip. Now, what would the availability be for finding a good teacher of
spells to learn a new one?


----------
The useless fact of the day is:
The word "girl" appears in the Bible only once.
Message no. 47
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:08:16 -0700
---Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:
>
> How would you run a credstick test? I always make characters do an
> etiquette test when they decide they just need to have a monofilament
> whip.

NAGRL tells all about credsticks and scanners.

Now this is all hypothetical, but let's say Gabriel goes through his
contact to pick up an SMG. After etiquette rolls are said and done, he
finds out it's gonna take a good four days to get ahold of the weapon.
After dropping some nu yen for their time, he says thanx but no thanx
and decides to risk buying the gun legit.

No he goes into the gun shop and spies a nice HK227 in stock. (Assume
gun shops are more liberal in 2057.) The shop owner slots the
credstick, and the store's rating four scanner goes to work on
Gabriel's rating five falsified credstick. Four dice are rolled by me
for the scanner, and the player rolls five dice for his credstick in
an opposed test. I come up with two successes, and he gets four.
Paperwork is filed and he walks out with the gun.

Had I rolled three successes and he only two, he would have come up
D-code: his SIN shows as that of someone who died at birth or never
existed. Use your evil GM imagination.

Anyways, I only have them make the credstick rolls when trying for
legit purchases. I assume going black market means they don't have to
deal with these legalities.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/


_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 48
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:17:07 +1000
Gweedo said:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:11:22 -0700 Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> writes:
> >That's pretty much how we play it as well. Buying an item legally, I
> >only require a credstick test to see if the Runner's fake ID comes up
> >as D-code. Buying black market means there's no risk to the fake ID,
> >but it requires the character make an etiquette test at the
> >(unmodified) availabilty and you pay street index.
>
> How would you run a credstick test?

There are rules for it in Sprawl Sites. Basically it's just a test between
the rating of the ID checker and the rating of the false ID.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 49
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:39:26 +0100
Gweedo The Killer Pimp said on 20:56/30 Apr 97...

> >That's pretty much how we play it as well. Buying an item legally, I
> >only require a credstick test to see if the Runner's fake ID comes up
> >as D-code.
>
> How would you run a credstick test?

What Loki means is that you get to roll a test when using a forged
credstick, to see if the stick stands up to the verification process. The
NAGRL explains it all, on the last two or three pages of the book.

> I always make characters do an etiquette test when they decide they just
> need to have a monofilament whip. Now, what would the availability be
> for finding a good teacher of spells to learn a new one?

That seems to be one FASA overlooked, yeah. Maybe (Force x 2)/14 days?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...and I make a difference too.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 50
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:44:07 GMT
Gweedo The Killer Pimp writes
>
> How would you run a credstick test?
Several folks have commented, but best answer is to refer to the back
of Neoanarchists guide to real life which also gives you an idea what
rating verifiers show up when and gives all the fake credstick costs.

> I always make characters do an
> etiquette test when they decide they just need to have a monofilament
> whip.
Yes the item folks very occasionally find but i have yet so see
bought successfully.

> Now, what would the availability be for finding a good teacher of
> spells to learn a new one?
>
GM's discretion.
Desired force or twice desired force might do.
At the moment i say no major deal for SR2 and GR2 spells at forces 1-
6, want force 7 or better or Awakenings stuff research it your self
or find a roleplaying solution. The easiest solution is borrow it off
an NPC or hope one of the few really hard NPC's about has the desired
spell at the desired force AND likes you enough :)

Mark
Message no. 51
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:01:00 -0700
---Shaun Sides wrote:
>
> > Now this is all hypothetical, but let's say Gabriel goes through
his
> > contact to pick up an SMG.
>
> Nah, no way. Gabriel only uses the Ares Viper.
>
> And I oughta know, since I've been playing him for at least 7 years,
> now.

Actually, Gabriel is Rookie's character in our current game. Who know
the stree name had become cliché. <shrug>

:o)

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 52
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:38:58 EDT
On Thu, 1 May 1997 14:04:00 MST Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
writes:
>>You want a cliche street name? Include one of the following words as
part
>>of your shadowrunning name: Black, Hawk, Fire, Death, Stalker, Night,
>>Kill, or Razor. Mix and match kiddies! It's fun!
>
>Totally true, but left out Ice, Blast, and Claw.

And Shadow! The most over-used word in _shadow_runner aliases (at least
it was around my group...at one point, there were at least _5_ such
characters)

>In cyberpunk and super-hero games its kind of hard to think up an
original
>name, unless you pick something like Chuck-Chuck Razool (cool name). If
I'm
>basing my character on a concept or idea and want a name to fit, I
pretty
>much accept that somebody has already used the name before.

A good point. I try to give the characters I create a 'real' name, since
I usually have serious trouble coming up with a 'cool' alias:) Usually,
names tend to fit in somehow with the character concept (the werewolf
named Lyle Canthros, for instance, who used the street alias 'Lobo'
(another cliched alias, but it was too good to pass up:) I've been known
to pull NPC aliases from songs, random letter combinations that sound
good, all kinds of things.

>Sometimes I'll name him something I figure nobody else would want. One
of
>my first characters took the extended volume lungs and a special skill
Luegy
>Hocking. We even figured how far he could spit ;-). He was a smelly,
>ornery ork named Camel.

LOL!

>I also used Tinman and Scarecrow, and one day looked through all the
books I
>had and found Scarecrow in the PAoNA (I think) and was pissed.

I really hate it when things like that happen.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 53
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 20:10:57 +0000
On 28 Apr 97 at 16:47, Loki wrote:
> That's been my whole point all along. _IF_ the GM allows it for
> physads. The operative word being _IF_. If the player is in a game
> where he's able to use force poitns as karma with his physad, then
> he's in luck and can bond his weapon foci. If he's in a game where the
> GM doesn't allow this OPTIONAL rule, then he's outta luck and paid way
> too much to start with a fancy sword.
>
> That's all I'm trying to say, I haven't forgotten about the optional
> rule for force points as karma. I'm just trying to point out it may
> not apply in any given game.

SRII, p. 46: "Force Points are used to purchase magic spells and to
acquire foci, items of magical power used by magicians. [...]
Characters purchasing a focus must pay the Bonding cost (p. 137) from
their available Force Points."

Glancing at the Compendium (really don't like that book) doesn't show
any contradictionary rules (<-euphemism for: doesn't mention it :-).

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| Stop! |
| \___ __/ | | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | Police! |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- ??? |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 54
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:30:24 -0500
Date: 1 May 97 Time: 13:01
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)

TO: Loki

> Actually, Gabriel is Rookie's character in our current game. Who
> know the stree name had become cliché. <shrug>

Didn't know it had. :)

I've been using it for a long time, though.

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

THE SIX PHASES OF A PROJECT
1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the guilty
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Praise and honours for the non-participants
Message no. 55
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:54:45 -0700
| >I also used Tinman and Scarecrow, and one day looked through all the
| books I
| >had and found Scarecrow in the PAoNA (I think) and was pissed.
|
| I really hate it when things like that happen.

We had a guy in our group running a Raccoon Shaman named Bandit before the
novels ever came out...'course Bandit is kind of obvious for a coon shaman,
but still it was a bummer when people thought he copied the character idea.

-Caric


What customer's say: "I have a dog and cat and i'm not computer literate
and my drive is broken and my computer beeps at me and I have a printer and
it ran out of ink..."

What I hear: "blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah drive
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah printer conflict blahblahblahblah"
Message no. 56
From: "Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr." <gilmeth@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:52:18 -0500
From: MC23 [SMTP:mc23@**********.COM]

> Gurth once dared to write,

> >Still, I'd say it is up to the individual GM to decide whether or not to
> >allow physads (and any other adepts) Force Points. I do, but I think I've
> >only seen two people play adepts of any kind over the years, and none of
> >them bought any foci for lack of money.

> I ended up writing personally to Mike after the whole Force points
> controversy suggesting a more political answer for it. (Being attacked by
> everyone on this list for weeks for my stance on this really wore on me).
> What I suggested for a new "company answer" is that non-spell casting
> adepts receive no Force points at CharGen, but because of ommision of
> that rule in the 2nd rules, GM's have the option of allowing it.
> I'm still against force points at CharGen for non spell casters.

I agree with you MC. Force points for Phys Ads just doesn't click with me. They just don't
use it the same as magicians.

Twinkie
gilmeth@*********.com
ICQ UIN: 514986
Microsoft Sitebuilder: 531896
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/3759/
Message no. 57
From: "Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr." <gilmeth@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:46:30 -0500
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

From: Ray & Tamara [SMTP:macey@*******.COM.AU]

> >I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon foci
> >as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:

> Not if you use the rule that stops them buying equipment with an
> availability of over 6. Also, even if you had it, bonding it is another
> thing. Some GM's allow the physads to spend force points to bond, others
> don't.

I thought the availability rule was 8, not 6.


Twinkie
gilmeth@*********.com
ICQ UIN: 514986
Microsoft Sitebuilder: 531896
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/3759/


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Message no. 58
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:10:34 EDT
On Fri, 2 May 1997 00:42:02 +0100 "Paul J. Adam"

>>You want a cliche street name? Include one of the following words as
>part
>>of your shadowrunning name: Black, Hawk, Fire, Death, Stalker,
>Night,
>>Kill, or Razor. Mix and match kiddies! It's fun!
>>
>>"What's your handle, kid?"
>>
>>"They call me Deathstalker."
>>
>>"Just a guess here. This is your first run, right?"
>
>Or there's the other extreme.
>
>"What's your name, kid?"
>
>"They call me Lynch."
>
>"Your _real_ name, not your handle."
>
>"Jason Running Wolf Lynch."
>
>
>It can work :)

I'm still thankful that I've seen nobody running a character with the
word Pimp in it. Or Guido, Or Gweedo for that matter. I like to pride
myself in being able to think up of original names. A couple of other
names that somebody forgot to add to the cliche list is:
Killer, Viper, Bandit, and the like.


----------
The useless fact of the day is:
The word "girl" appears in the Bible only once.
Message no. 59
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:10:12 EDT
On Thu, 1 May 1997 23:46:30 -0500 "Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr."
<gilmeth@*********.COM> writes:
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5689.E8C58BA0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>From: Ray & Tamara [SMTP:macey@*******.COM.AU]
>
>> >I had a question: is it possible for physical adepts to buy weapon
foci
>> >as starting equipment? Otherwise you might get somthing like this:
>
>> Not if you use the rule that stops them buying equipment with an
>> availability of over 6. Also, even if you had it, bonding it is
another
>> thing. Some GM's allow the physads to spend force points to bond,
others
>> don't.
>
>I thought the availability rule was 8, not 6.

All the GM's decision. I've heard 8, I use 6, myself, as does Ray, I
would guess. Six does a good job of limiting characters by ruling out
pretty much anything over an AR.

<snipping .sig>

And you're sending attachments, again. Just letting you know:)

>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5689.E8C58BA0
>Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
<snip>

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 60
From: Loki <gamemstr@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 12:33:37 -0700
> All the GM's decision. I've heard 8, I use 6, myself, as does Ray, I
> would guess. Six does a good job of limiting characters by ruling out
> pretty much anything over an AR.

We use 6 as the limit as well, and it seems to work quite well.

@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- A. C. Clarke


Poisoned Elves http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
Message no. 61
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:38:28 +1000
Twinkie wrote:
> > Not if you use the rule that stops them buying equipment with an
> > availability of over 6. Also, even if you had it, bonding it is
another
> > thing. Some GM's allow the physads to spend force points to bond,
others
> > don't.
>
> I thought the availability rule was 8, not 6.

The companion suggests the optional rule that makes the limit on equipment
availability 6, as opposed to not being able to get equipment above
_rating_ 6. Maybe 8 was just a house rule that your GM used?

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 62
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 11:04:41 EDT
On Sat, 3 May 1997 13:46:36 -0700 GRANITE <granite@**.net> writes:
>> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
>> GM: Oh well, roll an Athletics test to make sure you get the chute
open.
>> Player: Uh-oh. All ones.
>> GM: Oh. Ummm... well, that chute got snarled. Roll another Athletics
>> test to use the emergency chute.
>> Player: <wince> Would you believe all ones?
>> GM: Oh dear.

I do not envy his luck. Does he simply have bad luck (ie, rolls poorly no
matter what) or does he just roll low (in which case he'd kill at
something where you roll _under_ the TNs)?

>LOL....I've seen footage of this little problem recently that would
>allow the victi..er..PC a chance to survive...
<snip story of downright lucky as he!! parachuter>
>Any way the player could then roll all of his karma pool..or
>maybe his body rating or perhaps both..and depending on the rolls
>might just make it..there have been more than a few precedents for
>this type of survival...Weird but true... ;)

If you're not MC23, you could use the "Hand of God" Optional Rule from
the SR Companion...basically, the character expends all of his/her Good
Karma and Karma Pool in one glorious shot at life. There's a little more
to it than that, but that's the gist of it.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 63
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci)
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 12:18:43 +1000
> >LOL....I've seen footage of this little problem recently that would
> >allow the victi..er..PC a chance to survive...
> <snip story of downright lucky as he!! parachuter>
> >Any way the player could then roll all of his karma pool..or
> >maybe his body rating or perhaps both..and depending on the rolls
> >might just make it..there have been more than a few precedents for
> >this type of survival...Weird but true... ;)
>
> If you're not MC23, you could use the "Hand of God" Optional Rule from
> the SR Companion...basically, the character expends all of his/her Good
> Karma and Karma Pool in one glorious shot at life. There's a little more
> to it than that, but that's the gist of it.
>
We didn't have the Companion at that stage. it was about two years ago.
Message no. 64
From: "Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr." <gilmeth@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads and weapon foci
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 23:49:39 -0500
From: L Canthros [SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]

And you're sending attachments, again. Just letting you know:)

ARRGH!!
Sorry, people. I have to switch of MIME for each message that I send =
that I don't want it AND it is not easy to get to. (*Ducking any flame =
that may come his way*) Sorry.

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Thwap!