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Message no. 1
From: Charles D Neely <cdneely@****.COM>
Subject: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:48:14 EDT
What are the results of a physical adepts having modifications. I know
that some mages/shamans have cyberware (i.e. Sam in the first Trilogy). I
have never seen anything about the results of modifications to magic.
I was wondering how a physical adept would deal with having his arm
destroyed in combat and replaced with cyberware.
Kage Aruki
Message no. 2
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:09:47 -0700
<<What are the results of a physical adepts having modifications. I know
that some mages/shamans have cyberware (i.e. Sam in the first Trilogy).
I
have never seen anything about the results of modifications to magic.
I was wondering how a physical adept would deal with having his arm
destroyed in combat and replaced with cyberware.>>

Er... I thought these were pretty obvious.. a physad has bonus powers
equal to his magic rating. When the magic rating drops (from cyberware,
stimpatches, whatever) he loses some of those powers - and an evil GM
will do the choosing for the player.

Since magic and cyber are incompatible (usually), and bonuses the
cyberarm might provide would be incompatible with any physad bonuses.
And man, would I hate to see that guy's character sheet....
Message no. 3
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:49:46 -0400
Greetings!!!

Unless the physical adept followed a totem that forbib him to have cyberware,
he could. Remember, now there is a such a thing as shametic physical adepts.

However, as Gurth said the cyberware would reduced his/her magic rating by
the essence cost.

-Bandit

"At my lemonade stand I used to give the first glass away free and charge
five dollars for the second glass. The refill contained the antidote."
Message no. 4
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:06:41 -0400
This thread has been going for quite a while. Why trade something
natural in for something artificial? I mean physical adept powers can
emulate "almost" everything cyberware can do adn there are chances for
advancement. Why lose a lot by taking the quick and easy road (cyberware)
when you can be patient and improve yourself through initiation.

Dust
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:21:09 +0100
M. Sean Martinez said on 14:49/ 4 Jun 97...

> However, as Gurth said the cyberware would reduced his/her magic rating by
> the essence cost.

Are you by any chance psychic? I read this message after I wrote my reply
to the original "Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??" question by Charles
D. Neely, but _before_ I sent it out... Weird...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:21:09 +0100
Charles D Neely said on 11:48/ 4 Jun 97...

> What are the results of a physical adepts having modifications. I know
> that some mages/shamans have cyberware (i.e. Sam in the first Trilogy). I
> have never seen anything about the results of modifications to magic.

The Magic rating is equal to Essence rounded down (and then modified for
some other factors, like initiation grades and magic loss from deadly
wounds). For example, a magician with Essence 5.6 will have a Magic rating
of 5.

> I was wondering how a physical adept would deal with having his arm
> destroyed in combat and replaced with cyberware.

As above, the Magic rating of the physad will drop. The physad must then
give up one or more powers until the total Magic cost of the powers is
less than, or equal to, his or her new Magic rating.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:45:05 -0700
---Charles D Neely wrote:
>
> What are the results of a physical adepts having modifications. I
know
> that some mages/shamans have cyberware (i.e. Sam in the first
Trilogy). I
> have never seen anything about the results of modifications to magic.
> I was wondering how a physical adept would deal with having his arm
> destroyed in combat and replaced with cyberware.
> Kage Aruki

Magic = Essence (rounded down)

Therefore as his Magic is reduced by the presence of Cyberware, he
would lose physad abilities bought with the lost point(s).

Likewise, Body Index also reduces Magic. So Bioware augementation
would cost the physad some of his abilities as well.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 8
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:20:24 -1000
>Why lose alot
Because it's quick and easy, and there are somethings cyberware can do
that physad abilities can't. If you're going to make a physad you
probably aren't gonna put much cyberware in him anyway.
I know a physad who's into guns, and he got cybereyes for the optimag:3
and he picked up a smartlinkII. He's had a diff of 3 on a shot once.
Message no. 9
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:47:55 EDT
On Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:06:41 -0400 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG> writes:
<< This thread has been going for quite a while. Why trade
something natural in for something artificial? I mean physical adept
powers can emulate "almost" everything cyberware can do adn there are
chances for advancement. Why lose a lot by taking the quick and easy
road (cyberware) when you can be patient and improve yourself through
initiation.>>

Uhh...because we're not all patient? Because the potential results may be
greater than the resulting penalties? Because some of us (myself
included) like to get the most we possibly can out of a given character,
and that includes min-maxing as much as we can (without violating the
basic laws of reality, physics or the game itself)? The Burned-Out mage
is a particularly dangerous character, especially if he's given a Power
Focus with a rating of 3 or 4 and enough spell locks:) He can't lose much
more than one point of Magic, after all, and there are lots of ways to
use that cyber to your advantage:)

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 10
From: Charles D Neely <cdneely@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:15:36 EDT
On Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:47:55 EDT L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM> writes:
>On Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:06:41 -0400 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
>writes:
><< This thread has been going for quite a while. Why trade
>something natural in for something artificial? I mean physical adept
>powers can emulate "almost" everything cyberware can do adn there are
>chances for advancement. Why lose a lot by taking the quick and easy
>road (cyberware) when you can be patient and improve yourself through
>initiation.>>
>Uhh...because we're not all patient? Because the potential results may
>be
>greater than the resulting penalties? Because some of us (myself
>included) like to get the most we possibly can out of a given
>character, and that includes min-maxing as much as we can (without
>violating the basic laws of reality, physics or the game itself)? The
>Burned-Out mage is a particularly dangerous character, especially if
>he's given a Power Focus with a rating of 3 or 4 and enough spell
>locks:) He can't lose much more than one point of Magic, after all,
>and there are lots of ways to use that cyber to your advantage:)
>--
>-Canthros
The question was becaused of a character of mine getting hurt really bad
in a fire-fight. He had to replace some things i.e. his left arm(flesh to
goo). I was wondering how that would affect his powers. Is having you arm
re-grown the same as adding wetware.
KageAruki
Message no. 11
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:56:07 EDT
On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 00:15:36 EDT Charles D Neely <cdneely@****.COM>
writes:
<< The question was becaused of a character of mine getting hurt really
bad in a fire-fight. He had to replace some things i.e. his left
arm(flesh to goo). I was wondering how that would affect his powers. Is
having you arm re-grown the same as adding wetware.
KageAruki>>

Having a body part replaced with a clonal (or maybe even Forced Growth)
replacement part doesn't cause Essence loss, unless the surgeon screws up
when attaching the new arm/eye/whatever. It was (I think, my mind doesn't
seem to be working so well today) even stated in that chapter of the SR2
main book that having a cyberarm installed in the interim period between
losing the original (or previous, in some cases <cough>Bull<cough> :)
limb and when the replacement became available would allow a character to
regain the Magic lost in the installation of the cyberarm (ie, assuming
the srugeon doesn't screw up either time, the character loses one point
of Magic with the installation of the cyberarm, the new arm is finally
finished growing in the vat, the surgeon takes off the cyberarm, puts on
the new flesh arm and the character regains the lost Magic point). This
is, however, in contradiction to what was stated in Shadowtech <shrug>
OTOH, I'm not exactly batting a hundred today, so you can take all that
with a large grain of salt, I suppose.

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 12
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 01:10:23 EDT
Only a few moments ago I wrote:

<<OTOH, I'm not exactly batting a hundred today, so you can take all that
with a large grain of salt, I suppose.>>

Case in point: I think the expression I used is actually 'batting a
thousand' (can anyone guess who doesn't play baseball?) In any case, I'm
up _way_ too late for my taste. Goodnight, everybody.

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:16:55 +0100
Charles D Neely said on 0:15/ 5 Jun 97...

> The question was becaused of a character of mine getting hurt really bad
> in a fire-fight. He had to replace some things i.e. his left arm(flesh to
> goo). I was wondering how that would affect his powers. Is having you arm
> re-grown the same as adding wetware.

Shadowrun doesn't relaly know the concept of "wetware," so I'll assume you
mean cyberware by it. In that case, then no: having your arm re-grown from
your own tissue and grafted back onto your shoulder doesn't cost Essence,
since to your body it's a natural arm. Likewise, if you go through life
with only one arm, your also don't lose Essence because the arm is
missing. Only if you go for a cyber replacement will it cost you a point
of Essence.

However, implanting a new limb is drastic invasive surgery, causing a
Deadly wound to the character. This means you have to check for Magic loss
(SRII page 115).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:16:55 +0100
L Canthros said on 22:47/ 4 Jun 97...

> << This thread has been going for quite a while. Why trade
> something natural in for something artificial? I mean physical adept
> powers can emulate "almost" everything cyberware can do adn there are
> chances for advancement. Why lose a lot by taking the quick and easy
> road (cyberware) when you can be patient and improve yourself through
> initiation.>>
>
> Uhh...because we're not all patient? Because the potential results may be
> greater than the resulting penalties?

A good example of that is initiative boosts for physads. Assuming a
character with a natural Reaction of 6, these are the costs:

Cyberware Adept ability
+2+1D6 2 2 (Reaction: 2x.5, Dice: 1)
+4+2D6 3 6.5 (Reaction: 3x.5+1x1, Dice: 4)
+6+3D6 5 11.5 (Reaction: 3x.5+2x1+2, Dice: 6)

This only goes up if your Reaction is lower than 6... IMHO a clear case
where, if you want to be the best, you go for the cyberware, especially
since getting the equivalent of wired reflexes level 3 takes a LOT of
patience (6 initiate grades of it, to be precise).

> The Burned-Out mage is a particularly dangerous character, especially if
> he's given a Power Focus with a rating of 3 or 4 and enough spell
> locks:) He can't lose much more than one point of Magic, after all,

And that one point can't be lost due to Deadly wounds, so Magic loss is
something he'll rarely have to deal with.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 15
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:05:42 -0400
In a message dated 97-06-04 19:19:33 EDT, you write:

<< Are you by any chance psychic? I read this message after I wrote my reply
to the original "Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??" question by Charles
D. Neely, but _before_ I sent it out... Weird...
>>

Its one of those strange, unexplainable things that always seem to happen to
me. (As I could swear I saw your post before I responded, but when I went
back to look it wasn't there.)

-Bandit

"At my lemonade stand I used to give the first glass away free and charge
five dollars for the second glass. The refill contained the antidote."
Message no. 16
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:07:15 -0400
I'm curious how people apply the negatives of cyber.

o Do low essence individuals get penalties when dealing with
high essence contacts. ( he twitches, he seemed cold,
uncaring like he would cut off his own arm for an
edge)
o Do you have cops hassle Sams with visible smart links?
o Do you have some places say sorry sir, you have to much
cyber to be allowed in the club.
o Airports or other secure locations, do they say "Sorry Madame,
you'll have to wait for a special flight." or "Please
put
these on and don't move too fast or stand near
transmitters or microwave ovens."
o Do you remember to check for cyber damage after they take
damage.
o I'm sorry but the treat spell just does not work to well on
you.

These are all reasons why I might not get cyber. Being able to
walk through any mundane security and still be able to defeat
average guards can be an advantage, if the GM's balance the
cyber advantages.

In general cyber/bodyware can definately do a better job than
physad power where strength, quickness, body, int, reaction,
init, or smartlinks are what your going for. This is especially
true if Delta clinics and delta inplants are more available than
the karma a physad would need to get the equivalent powers.


What are the other checks people use for cyber individuals?
EMP grenades?



--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
Message no. 17
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:59:52 EDT
On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:07:15 -0400 Lorden <westln@***.EDU> writes:
>I'm curious how people apply the negatives of cyber.
>
>o Do low essence individuals get penalties when dealing with
> high essence contacts. ( he twitches, he seemed cold,
> uncaring like he would cut off his own arm for an
> edge)


Actually, _very_ low Essence individuals do suffer on the Charisma rolls,
at least, there's a modifier for it the Companion:)


>o Do you have cops hassle Sams with visible smart links?


I got the impression that the smart link used an induction jack already
and wasn't normally visible. But, guys with obvious cyber should be
hassled by the local law enforcement, especially after seeing the
legalities on the stuff.


>o Do you have some places say sorry sir, you have to much
> cyber to be allowed in the club.


I haven't had the situation come up, but I'm sure that if a) the club has
a cyberware scanner or b) the guy has lots of obvious cyber it would be
quite plausible for a club to deny entrance to such a person.


>o Airports or other secure locations, do they say "Sorry Madame,
> you'll have to wait for a special flight." or "Please put
> these on and don't move too fast or stand near
> transmitters or microwave ovens."


Actually, I think that several places in the FASA-official world are like
this, Britain, probably lots of large airports, international ones most
certainly.


>o Do you remember to check for cyber damage after they take
> damage.


Haven't known about the cyber-damage rules long enough to use them.


>o I'm sorry but the treat spell just does not work to well on
> you.


And the Heal spell works even worse:)


>These are all reasons why I might not get cyber. Being able to
>walk through any mundane security and still be able to defeat
>average guards can be an advantage, if the GM's balance the
>cyber advantages.


The truth of the matter is that Physads and Sammies are really pretty
well balanced already, so long as a decent sense of reality is preserved
(ie, delta ware isn't considered standard grade:)


>In general cyber/bodyware can definately do a better job than
>physad power where strength, quickness, body, int, reaction,
>init, or smartlinks are what your going for. This is especially
>true if Delta clinics and delta inplants are more available than
>the karma a physad would need to get the equivalent powers.


However, they shouldn't be. Delta ware is _extremely_ hard to find. If it
becomes so common that characters have more access to it than they do to
Karma, it loses the one thing that makes it so spectacular, it's rarity.


>
>What are the other checks people use for cyber individuals?
> EMP grenades?

Where are the rules for those, anyway? Are they in the SSC?


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 18
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 18:57:51 -0400
Greetings!!!

Generally I harass heavy cyber characters in many of the ways mentioned. I
even used the cyber damage tables, much to my players dismay. I can also
think of more than one episode where a samuari got to wear those special
cyber cuffs (the ones that shock you when you activate your cyberware) during
a flight.

Another check is to introduce cyber upkeep. Cyberware needs to be maintained,
just like any electronic device.

As for EMP weapons, well I did some research (talking to NASA, OMNI etc) and
have concluded that by 2050's hand help EMP generators still would not exist.
Currently EMP generators fill a large shipping barge. Highly non-man
portable. There is also the problem of the radiation created from an EMP. The
military also uses EMP generators to test the radar intergity of aircraft.

However, I could see a site EMP weapon built into the building. But that
could play havok with the buildings own system.

Though, if you really want to get technical, all explosions produce an EMP.
Unfortunetly, they are not strenough to disrupt most electronics, only the
really, really sensitive ones.

Also, depending on who you talk to, cyberware may or may not be affected by
EMPs. Some say that most cyberware is alreday shielded. Then there are some
that claim fiber obtics are used instead of wiring.

-Bandit

"At my lemonade stand I used to give the first glass away free and charge
five dollars for the second glass. The refill contained the antidote."
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:48:12 +0100
Lorden said on 15:07/ 5 Jun 97...

> o Do low essence individuals get penalties when dealing with
> high essence contacts. ( he twitches, he seemed cold,
> uncaring like he would cut off his own arm for an
> edge)

That's CP2020's cyberpsychosis slipping in again. Rat isn't around AFAIK,
you're lucky there... :) Cyberpsychosis has no basis in reality, it was
introduced in the Cyberpunk game system as a quick fix to prevent players
from taking too much cyberware, and has since been copied by many other
games.

> o Do you have cops hassle Sams with visible smart links?

The only visible part is the induction pad in the palm of the hand, and I
see no reason why that can't be covered over with a layer of skin (after
all it's an _in_duction pad, not a _con_duction pad). But to answer the
question, I don't think I've had cops hassle players with smartlinks.

> o Do you have some places say sorry sir, you have to much
> cyber to be allowed in the club.

Not yet, but I might. I have no PCs with lots of cyberware ATM.

> o Airports or other secure locations, do they say "Sorry Madame,
> you'll have to wait for a special flight." or "Please put
> these on and don't move too fast or stand near
> transmitters or microwave ovens."

Yes. Put on some bracelets (from Harlequin) and if you try to activate
your cyber, the taser circuitry fires.

> o Do you remember to check for cyber damage after they take
> damage.

Definitely.

> o I'm sorry but the treat spell just does not work to well on
> you.

Of course, its TN is 8 - Essence so anyone with cyberware is a more
difficult target for this spell.

> What are the other checks people use for cyber individuals?
> EMP grenades?

I've got a set of house rules that say tasers have a much greater chance
of damaging cyberware than other weapons. In short, every time a
cybered character takes damage from a taser, regardless if the actual
wound level inflicted is L, M, S, or D, a check is made for cyberware
damage. Non-electronic cyberware like dermal plating or bone lacing won't
get damaged, but anything else is fair game.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 20
From: David Mark Woods <david.w@****.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:15:36 +0100
My experience is that a high Magic Rating is very difficult to maintain.
Perhaps our GM gave out Deadly wounds more often than many on this list,
but I would be surprised if a grade 6 initiate had a MR of 12. And think
how easy it would be to lose it.

Even with clonal limbs restoring lossed essence (on successful B/T roll)
my grade 3 Mage only had a MR of 5 at the end of the campaign. A PhyAd
in the same position would have ended the campaign with less abilities
than he started.

It seems to me that only roleplaying considerations and possibly money
prevents most PhyAds going for Cyber. Even if the they lose an extra MR
point from the surgery itself their are still better-off overall.

Smartlink and Wire reflexes are the two most tempting items as I see it.
With the reduced MR the character is less likely to lose more when he
takes Deadly, and he can keep the abilities he has.

I am missing something?

- David Mark Woods
_________
| |
_o_ _| ___=___ |_ _o_
/`-'\( ) ( )/`-'\
| |-| ___"___ |-| |
| | | (-+-+-+-) | | |
| |--\_KAR120C_/--| |
`---' `---'
Http://www.reading.ac.uk/~spuwdsda
Message no. 21
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:03:40 GMT
David Mark Woods writes

> My experience is that a high Magic Rating is very difficult to maintain.
> Perhaps our GM gave out Deadly wounds more often than many on this list,
> but I would be surprised if a grade 6 initiate had a MR of 12. And think
> how easy it would be to lose it.
>
I suspect you either should use more cover to avoid deadly wounds or
they were rather common in your game. I have not seen to much of PC's
losing magic attribute due to this problem though maniacs that stand
in front of big guns have been know to on occasion. Yes i have seen a
grade 6 MA 12 character. The trick is duck, if you are having regular
trips to hospital due to deadly woulds find a safer lifestyle before
you get something the Doc cannot cure.

> Even with clonal limbs restoring lossed essence (on successful B/T roll)
> my grade 3 Mage only had a MR of 5 at the end of the campaign. A PhyAd
> in the same position would have ended the campaign with less abilities
> than he started.
>
I can think of reasons for this.
1) you need to find more cover, my first action in combat is often
duck!
2) the GM ambushed you a lot so you got shot before you could do
anything about it. Ok if you like deadly games but often little you
can do about it.
3) overly deadly runs, many causes, bad guys pumped up to tackle the
munchkin hit the wrong target, mad PC tactics etc etc.
Without knowing a LOT more about your game though comments have to be
guesses.

> It seems to me that only roleplaying considerations and possibly money
> prevents most PhyAds going for Cyber. Even if the they lose an extra MR
> point from the surgery itself their are still better-off overall.
Very true.
Overall THE way to destroy the system involves taking a physical
adept lots of karma and money to the Grimoire and Shadowtech. They
can have everything a semmie can have and more and mask spell locks
etc! (and cyberware for that matter)

> Smartlink and Wire reflexes are the two most tempting items as I see it.
> With the reduced MR the character is less likely to lose more when he
> takes Deadly, and he can keep the abilities he has.
>
Yep, though enhanced aim spells (awakenings) and a good mage may
reduce the former, and spell locked initiative with initiation to
mask it can be good though as you say magic loss is a problem.

> I am missing something?
No.
I and quit a lot of folks like to play 'pure' magicians often for
roleplaying, but also because mixing the grimoire and shadowtech is
terribly powerful.

Mark
Message no. 22
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:10:56 -1000
>other checks for cybered individuals?
Friend of mine developed an EMP spell.
Drain was a fragger, but worth it on occassion.
Message no. 23
From: Jason Forbes <jayfor@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:36:57 -0400
On June 6, 1997 Mark wrote;

>I and quit a lot of folks like to play 'pure' magicians often for
>roleplaying, but also because mixing the grimoire and shadowtech is
>terribly powerful.

It would seem that way but the actual rules for bioware in Shadowtech
state that magically active characters who take bioware have to pay an
essence cost equal to the body index as well as add to their body
index. My group has chosen to ignore this rule since the GM thinks it
is stupid since a magically active character with a high body (troll
physad, for example) can't even take as much bioware as a highly
conditioned human.

Khan
Message no. 24
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:03:43 GMT
Jason Forbes writes
> >I and quit a lot of folks like to play 'pure' magicians often for
> >roleplaying, but also because mixing the grimoire and shadowtech is
> >terribly powerful.
>
> It would seem that way but the actual rules for bioware in Shadowtech
> state that magically active characters who take bioware have to pay an
> essence cost equal to the body index as well as add to their body
> index.
Yes but given enough initiation you can get the magic back. Yes its
expensive but if you are cunning lots of trouble can be caused with
small bits of ware.

> My group has chosen to ignore this rule since the GM thinks it
> is stupid since a magically active character with a high body (troll
> physad, for example) can't even take as much bioware as a highly
> conditioned human.
>
Common rule. Do still reduce thier magic however.

Mark
Message no. 25
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:34:53 -0700
<<I've got a set of house rules that say tasers have a much greater
chance of damaging cyberware than other weapons. In short, every time a
cybered character takes damage from a taser, regardless if the actual
wound level inflicted is L, M, S, or D, a check is made for cyberware
damage. Non-electronic cyberware like dermal plating or bone lacing
won't
get damaged, but anything else is fair game.>>

There was an (American) broadcast this week about the AirTaser, where
the inventors claimed it stood no chance of interfering with a
pacemaker.
It was on one of the newsmagazines, can't remember the name of it.

-Matt
Message no. 26
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:09:07 +0100
Matb said on 3:34/ 6 Jun 97...

> > I've got a set of house rules that say tasers have a much greater
> > chance of damaging cyberware than other weapons.
>
> There was an (American) broadcast this week about the AirTaser, where
> the inventors claimed it stood no chance of interfering with a
> pacemaker.
> It was on one of the newsmagazines, can't remember the name of it.

Obviously, I haven't seen that, but it's similar to comments others have
made about these house rules; still, I'll keep using them for the simple
reason that it can make life just a bit more difficult for characters with
a lot of cyberware ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 27
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts and Cyber/WetWare??
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 07:21:02 -0600
Matb wrote:
|
| <<I've got a set of house rules that say tasers have a much greater
| chance of damaging cyberware than other weapons. In short, every time a
| cybered character takes damage from a taser, regardless if the actual
| wound level inflicted is L, M, S, or D, a check is made for cyberware
| damage. Non-electronic cyberware like dermal plating or bone lacing
| won't
| get damaged, but anything else is fair game.>>
|
| There was an (American) broadcast this week about the AirTaser, where
| the inventors claimed it stood no chance of interfering with a
| pacemaker.
| It was on one of the newsmagazines, can't remember the name of it.

Dateline on NBC. Good point though. Anything that can interfere
with pace makers has to have a warning label on it. And for
something like a taser, if it's being issued to law enforcement it
can't interfere with a pace maker (at least in the US's legal system
:). So I'm guessing that in SR the same still applies (mostly, you
can never trust a corp).

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

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