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Message no. 1
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:57:50 -0700
> |Heck, how does the damage to an aura in astral space get
> |reflected in the body?
>

This got me thinking..You know it should be impossible for the damage to
appear as it occurs to the astral form as there is no link between the astral
form and the meat body..all the physical damage should appear the instant an
astral form returns to the body..If the mage knows he would instantly
die..Hmmmm I would delay until my meat got taken to a nice safe place where
treatment could be administered before I jumped back into my body...
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 2
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 03:55:20 +0000
On 10 Sep 96 at 10:57, GRANITE wrote:
> > |Heck, how does the damage to an aura in astral space get
> > |reflected in the body?

> This got me thinking..You know it should be impossible for the damage to
> appear as it occurs to the astral form as there is no link between the astral
> form and the meat body..all the physical damage should appear the instant an
> astral form returns to the body..If the mage knows he would instantly
> die..Hmmmm I would delay until my meat got taken to a nice safe place where
> treatment could be administered before I jumped back into my body...

Sorry, no way. SRII, p. 147: "Because of the occult phenomenon of
'repercussion,' the physical body manifests the damage.That means that if a
magician is wounded in astral space, the physical body is wounded at the same
moment."

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 3
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:28:15 -0500 (EST)
>> |Heck, how does the damage to an aura in astral space get
>> |reflected in the body?
>>
>
>This got me thinking..You know it should be impossible for the damage to
>appear as it occurs to the astral form as there is no link between the astral
>form and the meat body..all the physical damage should appear the instant an
>astral form returns to the body..If the mage knows he would instantly
>die..Hmmmm I would delay until my meat got taken to a nice safe place where
>treatment could be administered before I jumped back into my body...

Wondered about that myself.
That rule always smacked a little of the old D&D "silver cord" days.


FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"Help! The toad is kicking my butt!"
Message no. 4
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:23:24 -0700
GRANITE wrote:
>
> > |Heck, how does the damage to an aura in astral space get
> > |reflected in the body?
> >
>
> This got me thinking..You know it should be impossible for the damage to
> appear as it occurs to the astral form as there is no link between the astral
> form and the meat body..all the physical damage should appear the instant an
> astral form returns to the body..If the mage knows he would instantly
> die..Hmmmm I would delay until my meat got taken to a nice safe place where
> treatment could be administered before I jumped back into my body...

They covered this in S/R II Sourcebook (page 147).

"Because of the occult phenomenon of 'reprecussion' the physical body
manifests the damage. That means that is a magician is wounded in astral
space, the physical body is wounded at the same moment. If killed, the
astral and physical bodies die at the same moment. Healing techniques
used on one body also heal the other, whether the healing is magical or
mundane."

Yes...my library tends to be in easy reach. It also helps when I can
remember where I saw something...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 21:13:38 +1100
>This got me thinking..You know it should be impossible for the damage to
>appear as it occurs to the astral form as there is no link between the
>astral
>form and the meat body..all the physical damage should appear the instant an
>astral form returns to the body..If the mage knows he would instantly
>die..Hmmmm I would delay until my meat got taken to a nice safe place where
>treatment could be administered before I jumped back into my body...

No link, huh... hmm, mind if I throw this fireball spell at your astral
form?


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realized that a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 22:14:43 +1100
>That rule always smacked a little of the old D&D "silver cord" days.

The "silver cord" is supposedly a "genuine" pheneomen of astral
travel.
Read any of those new-age books on the subject, and it'll mention it.
Where did you think Gary Gygax got the idea from?


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 7
From: PDL@****.dacom.co.kr
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 09:15:35 PDT
---------------Original Message---------------
On 10 Sep 96 at 10:57, GRANITE wrote:
> > |Heck, how does the damage to an aura in astral space get
> > |reflected in the body?

> This got me thinking..You know it should be impossible for the damage to
> appear as it occurs to the astral form as there is no link between the astral
> form and the meat body..all the physical damage should appear the instant an
> astral form returns to the body..If the mage knows he would instantly
> die..Hmmmm I would delay until my meat got taken to a nice safe place where
> treatment could be administered before I jumped back into my body...

Sorry, no way. SRII, p. 147: "Because of the occult phenomenon of
'repercussion,' the physical body manifests the damage.That means that if a
magician is wounded in astral space, the physical body is wounded at the same
moment."

Sascha
----------End of Original Message----------
You can still heal the body though, and 'repercussion' would
heal both forms.

Patrick
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 12:55:39 +1100
>You can still heal the body though, and 'repercussion' would
>heal both forms.

You can apply First Aid, yeah... you can't cast healing spells, as the
aura of the body isn't present (it's off flitting around the astral
plane).


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realized that a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 9
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:00:04 -0700
Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> >You can still heal the body though, and 'repercussion' would
> >heal both forms.
>
> You can apply First Aid, yeah... you can't cast healing spells, as the
> aura of the body isn't present (it's off flitting around the astral
> plane).

Then what's the point of FASA (S/R II, pg 147) saying - "Healing
techniques used on one body also heal the other, whether healing is
magical or mundane."

It's in the same paragraph as the phenomenon of reprucssion and, amgical
healing would lead me think think of heal or treat spells.


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 19:20:27 +1100
>Then what's the point of FASA (S/R II, pg 147) saying - "Healing
>techniques used on one body also heal the other, whether healing is
>magical or mundane."
>
>It's in the same paragraph as the phenomenon of reprucssion and, amgical
>healing would lead me think think of heal or treat spells.

Heal and Treat would not work 'cause they are Mana based spells. To heal
a body without an aura, a physical spell would be needed. For example,
Cure Disease and Antidote could be used (to counter disease/poisons, of
course).

There's no ruling saying you couldn't design a heal spell that was
physical based. It could also do such things as repair wounds on corpses
(which may be a neat trick for getting around forensic evidence problems).


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 11
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:36:25 +0100
Robert Watkins said on 21:13/11 Sep 96...

> No link, huh... hmm, mind if I throw this fireball spell at your astral
> form?

I don't think people near the magician's physical body would like that...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Tourist, Rincewind had decided, meant 'idiot'.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 12
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:56:30 +0000
On 12 Sep 96 at 12:55, Robert Watkins wrote:

> >You can still heal the body though, and 'repercussion' would
> >heal both forms.
>
> You can apply First Aid, yeah... you can't cast healing spells, as the
> aura of the body isn't present (it's off flitting around the astral
> plane).
Saz who?
The rulebook doesn't.... SRII, p. 147: "Healing techniques used on one body
[either the physical or the astral projecting] also heal the other, whether
the healing is magical or mundane."

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 13
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: Re[2]: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 15:21:10 EST
----------------------

%Robert Watkins said on 21:13/11 Sep 96...

%> No link, huh... hmm, mind if I throw this fireball spell at your
%astral > form?

%I don't think people near the magician's physical body would like that...

--
%Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't think the sammies guarding the body within range of the grounding
fireball would like it either. :)
Ferri
Message no. 14
From: PDL@****.dacom.co.kr
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 22:50:55 PDT
---------------Original Message---------------

There's no ruling saying you couldn't design a heal spell that was
physical based. It could also do such things as repair wounds on corpses
(which may be a neat trick for getting around forensic evidence problems).


--
Robert Watkins
----------End of Original Message----------
I am going to break a major rule here. But it is different angle then has been asked
before. Can you ground a spell with a positive affect? For example, if a physical based
heal spell was created could you ground it through a spell lock?

Patrick
Message no. 15
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 17:18:27 +1100
>> There's no ruling saying you couldn't design a heal spell that was
>> physical based. It could also do such things as repair wounds on corpses
>> (which may be a neat trick for getting around forensic evidence problems).
>
>Nice idea. Problem I see is that how is the spells supposed to know what
>to heal first? If it heals the body as a whole, you might just loose
>some important forensice data in the process.

Umm, that's what I meant. Forensic evidence problems to runners usually
means things other people use to track them down.


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 16
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 17:18:47 +1100
>*near* the mage? I kinda remember a group that got truly annoyed with
>being grounded into every time the mage projected (Stupid mage). Got
>into a habit of staying ~10m away from the mage, with a loaded NarcoJet
>aimed at the mage...

Not a good idea... the shock of the narcoject dart impacting would kill
the mage.


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 17
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 17:19:36 +1100
>> You can apply First Aid, yeah... you can't cast healing spells, as the
>> aura of the body isn't present (it's off flitting around the astral
>> plane).
>Saz who?
>The rulebook doesn't.... SRII, p. 147: "Healing techniques used on one body
>[either the physical or the astral projecting] also heal the other, whether
>the healing is magical or mundane."

Yah, but Heal and Treat are mana based spells.


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 18
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 19:44:52 +1100
>Why do you all assume one can't cast a Heal or Treat on a projecting
>magician?
>Just because someone said so?

Simple: Mana spells target the aura. A projecting mage has taken his aura
away and is off elsewhere. Heal and Treat are mana based spells.


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)
Message no. 19
From: "Galen \"Marphod\" Silversmith" <argentum@****.isca.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:51:02 -0500
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:
> >*near* the mage? I kinda remember a group that got truly annoyed with
> >being grounded into every time the mage projected (Stupid mage). Got
> >into a habit of staying ~10m away from the mage, with a loaded NarcoJet
> >aimed at the mage...
> Not a good idea... the shock of the narcoject dart impacting would kill
> the mage.
>

Says whom? Narcojets are low-speed, low-momentum darts (why they use
impact, rather than ballistic armour). Furthermore, most animals and
humans CAN withstand a hit with a tranq dart at 40 feet. Or even less.

Hell, beating the mage over the head with a baseball bat when projecting
still has them make a body roll to resist damage. This sounds like some
LOUSY excuse not to make it work.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Galen Silversmith "Please relax and enjoy your shoes"--DNA
galens@*********.org argentum@****.isca.uiowa.ede galen-silversmith@*****.edu
http://www.isca.uiowa.edu/users/galen-silversmith/
"May the ducks of your life quack ever harmoniously"--Andromeda Yelton
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Message no. 20
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 96 08:32:26 +1100
>> Not a good idea... the shock of the narcoject dart impacting would kill
>> the mage.
>>
>
>Says whom? Narcojets are low-speed, low-momentum darts (why they use
>impact, rather than ballistic armour). Furthermore, most animals and
>humans CAN withstand a hit with a tranq dart at 40 feet. Or even less.
>
>Hell, beating the mage over the head with a baseball bat when projecting
>still has them make a body roll to resist damage. This sounds like some
>LOUSY excuse not to make it work.

Simple... SR II, p147, "Effects of Astral Projection".
"A magician's enemies could simple kill the physical body. Almost any
wound to the comatose form will drive it into fatal shock".


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 21
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: physical damage from the astral was:Fat-bac -Reply
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:01:03 +0000
On 15 Sep 96 at 17:19, Robert Watkins wrote:
> >The rulebook doesn't.... SRII, p. 147: "Healing techniques used on one body
> >[either the physical or the astral projecting] also heal the other, whether
> >the healing is magical or mundane."
>
> Yah, but Heal and Treat are mana based spells.
Which means?
Sorry, I have yet to see the rule "bodies of projecting magicians can only be
affected with physical spells." Maybe you point me to it? Else your statement
wouldn't make much sense, I am afraid.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

Further Reading

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