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Message no. 1
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:26:10 +0200
At 05:26 PM 24-07-97 -0400, you (J. Keith) wrote:

>>
>> Except that a physad can't enchant, and can't use most magical skills
>> except for mundane effects (which is to say, in the same way(s) a mundane
>> could use them).
>>
>>
>True, but a Physical Mage can, and these rules apply to them as well. Also,
>a Physical Adept -CAN- enchant, even a mundane can make fetishes. As such,
>the skills could go in that direction as well.
>-Keith

I'd like someone to check me here please.
The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a little
unbelieved according to the source material, right? I dont have the paper
work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus. Just how many GM's are
allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal and unnesassary (sp?
oooooh!) archetype?

It smacks of "best of both worlding"

Thanks
BRUCE
Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
Message no. 2
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:08:00 -0500
You wrote:
> I'd like someone to check me here please.
> The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a little
> unbelieved according to the source material, right? I dont have the paper
> work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus. Just how many GM's are
> allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal and unnecessary archetype?
Was the physad 'necessary' in the first place? Not in my opinion. It was a
way to be a magical samurai when first introduced. I think the physical
magician could be a very interesting character type, and isn't as subject to
munching as people may think.

> It smacks of "best of both worlding"
Yeah, but they're nowhere as good as either, they're middleground. And it
makes perfect sense to me that one could pursue both spellcasting/conjuring and
physadept powers in study. It's no different than the burned-out mages that
end up being basically samurai/mages.

losthalo
Message no. 3
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:24:29 +1000
> Was the physad 'necessary' in the first place? Not in my opinion. It was a
> way to be a magical samurai when first introduced. I think the physical
> magician could be a very interesting character type, and isn't as subject to
> munching as people may think.

Agreed. To be as good a mage as the party mage AND as good a PA as the
party physad, you need quite a bit of initiation. And doubtless they'll
be initiating too, putting the "catch-up" mark further out of your
reach.

To be a bit more eloquent: Phys Mages are, as many have said, a nice
middle ground rather than the best of both worlds. They allow you a
nicely customisable character, while limiting the available power. Sure,
a PhysMage with enough karma can do ANYTHING any other character can do
(including summoning a nature spirit if you allow certain
highly-disputed edges), but that's a lot of karma. In the meantime,
they're fun characters to play. Our group has had two: I played an
ex-army Physical Sorceror Adept, and we currently have a Physical Snake
Shaman called Hissy Fit^H^H^H^H^H^H Backstrike. Sorry Guardian. :)

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:52:21 +0200
At 10:08 AM 28-07-97 -0500, you (Wendy W.) wrote:
>
>> It smacks of "best of both worlding"
>Yeah, but they're nowhere as good as either, they're middleground. And it
>makes perfect sense to me that one could pursue both spellcasting/conjuring and
>physadept powers in study. It's no different than the burned-out mages that
>end up being basically samurai/mages.
>
>losthalo

I would have to say that a phys/mage is vastly different to a burnout both
in powers and the way that these are aquired. A phys/mage aquires all his
physical and magical powers at chargen. The burnout has to suffer for his
speed so to speak.

If I were to find out about a magical talent that I possessed I would follow
the one that suited me. I dont know many people that could apply themselves
to ful time martial arts study and full time magical research. No matter
what is said in its defence I still want to know how common these phys/mages
are according to canon anyway.

Thanks

BRUCE
Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
Free your mind and the rest will follow!
Message no. 5
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:19:07 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-29 07:52:48 EDT, you write:

> I would have to say that a phys/mage is vastly different to a burnout both
> in powers and the way that these are aquired. A phys/mage aquires all his
> physical and magical powers at chargen. The burnout has to suffer for his
> speed so to speak.
>
> If I were to find out about a magical talent that I possessed I would
follow
> the one that suited me. I dont know many people that could apply
themselves
> to ful time martial arts study and full time magical research. No matter
> what is said in its defence I still want to know how common these
phys/mages
> are according to canon anyway.

From what I understand of it, according to canon physmages are really rare.
And as a matter of fact, they don't study both physad powers and magic full
time, as is demonstrated by the geasa requirements on their magic. They get
burned heavily if they take cyberware in the spellcasting department, and
they cannot astrally percieve or project. Essentially, they're almost
limiting you to an elemental or shamanic adept for your spellcasting. As far
as following the one that suited you, if you'll remember, the ninja were the
"first" example of a physmage, which means that both fields of study would
have long ago been integrated with the clan's teachings.

Wolfstar
Message no. 6
From: Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:31:32 PDT
--lot's of stuff snipped--
Enverone's been saying that the Phys/Mage is really limited.
I beg to differ.

1}==> True, he/she loses the astral advantage(at least until he/she gets
the astral perception power). But, the PhysMage CAN summon watcher
spirits to do his/her astral work for him/her. Ally spirits can also
perform this function, as well as others.
2}==> People keep saying that the PhysMage must accept a Geas on every
two points spent on adept powers. This is only partially right.
You can always get rid of a Geas by way of initiation...
3}==> True you can't cast high force spells w/out taking physical drain,
but then again, how often do you NEED to cast that Force: 10 Hellblast.
Wouldn't a force: 6 Sleep spell accomplish the same?
4}==> Enhanced Centering (Magical Skills) 'nuff said...

Well, that's what I wanted to say... C U L8r..

By the way, what the heck does "IMHO" mean?

===========================================================
An upturned tortise is the nineth most pathetic thing in
the entire multiverse.
An upturned tortise that knows what is going to happen next
is, well, at least up there at number four.
--Small Gods


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Message no. 7
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:23:26 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-29 15:54:04 EDT, you write:

> Enverone's been saying that the Phys/Mage is really limited.
> I beg to differ.
>
> 1}==> True, he/she loses the astral advantage(at least until he/she gets
> the astral perception power). But, the PhysMage CAN summon watcher
> spirits to do his/her astral work for him/her. Ally spirits can also
> perform this function, as well as others.

Or you can pick up Astral Sight Edge for a measly 3 points - well, measly if
yer using point generation.

> 2}==> People keep saying that the PhysMage must accept a Geas on every
> two points spent on adept powers. This is only partially right.
> You can always get rid of a Geas by way of initiation...

Right, but if you're allowing initiation at character creation, you're
either insane or are running a high-powered game.

> 3}==> True you can't cast high force spells w/out taking physical drain,
> but then again, how often do you NEED to cast that Force: 10 Hellblast.
> Wouldn't a force: 6 Sleep spell accomplish the same?

I prefer physical enhancement spells such as Invisibility and others that
reduce the physmage's detectability. blowing yer force on combat and DM
spells is almost a waste.

> 4}==> Enhanced Centering (Magical Skills) 'nuff said...

Ummm, am I missing something here? You can't get Enhanced Centering(at least
in the games I'm in) until you initiate, and once you initiate, you can use
the Centering metamagic ability on magical skills, so what good would
enhanced centering do?

Wolfstar
Message no. 8
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:41:37 -0400
>By the way, what the heck does "IMHO" mean?
>
In my humble opinion

Also:

IMO = In my opinion (WHen you aren;t quite humble)
IMNSHO = In my not so humble opinion (When you're not humble about it at all)


Ok, now onto PhysMage stuff-

Physical Mages DO work, and they can be VERY powerful, especially if they
choose their spells carefully...

I have a PhysMage in my group, who started with 1 Magic Point, and 5 Physad
power points. This meant that all his spells (He didn't take any force 1
spells) cause him physical drain.

Yet, he has yet to take physical damage from drain? Why?

Well, he's careful about what he casts, and usually reserves most of his
pool for drain.

Plus, there are several VERY powerful spels out tehre just begging to be
abused because of pathetic drain codes that he's currently abusing, thus
prompting me to start instituting a modified drain code. The main spells
I'm thinking of are Sleep and Stun Cloud. FOr something that tends to be
more effective than a Fireball, it's half as cheap.

Anyways, I agree that PhysMages can be overpowered, big time, if the player
knows how to abuse the rules, and it's completely legal.

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

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Message no. 9
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:40:27 +1000
> themselves
> > to ful time martial arts study and full time magical research. No matter
> > what is said in its defence I still want to know how common these
> phys/mages
> > are according to canon anyway.

Point 1: Who says that Phys Ads all have to be martial artists?

Point 2: It's NOT full time... they're a jack-of-all-trades, master of
none.

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:10:18 +0200
At 10:40 AM 30-07-97 +1000, you (Lady J) wrote:

>Point 1: Who says that Phys Ads all have to be martial artists?
>
>Point 2: It's NOT full time... they're a jack-of-all-trades, master of
>none.
>
>Lady Jestyr
>
Reply 1 : PHYSAD implies some time of physical endeavour. That requires
almost constant training, practice and general time investment. And besides
how many
physad dancers or athletes become shadowrunners anyhow?

Reply 2 : yet they can throw down with the best of them both physically and
magically?

Repeat original Question : Just how common are Physical Mages both in games
being played by listmembers and according to canon????

Thanks

BRUCE
Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
Free your mind and the rest will follow!
Message no. 11
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:38:55 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-30 11:26:24 EDT, gyro@********.CO.ZA (Bruce) writes:

>
> I would have to say that a phys/mage is vastly different to a burnout both
> in powers and the way that these are aquired. A phys/mage aquires all his
> physical and magical powers at chargen. The burnout has to suffer for his
> speed so to speak.
>
> If I were to find out about a magical talent that I possessed I would
follow
> the one that suited me. I dont know many people that could apply
themselves
> to ful time martial arts study and full time magical research. No matter
> what is said in its defence I still want to know how common these
phys/mages
> are according to canon anyway.
>
Uhm, guys....it does mention in the Awakenings under the Physical Mage that
any points NOT spent on regular (aka, spellcasting/conjuring) magic must be
applied the geasa rules as well. Sounds like the same as a Burnout to me.
Message no. 12
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:00:10 +1000
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:38:55 -0400 J. Keith Henry wrote:

> Uhm, guys....it does mention in the Awakenings under the Physical Mage that
> any points NOT spent on regular (aka, spellcasting/conjuring) magic must be
> applied the geasa rules as well. Sounds like the same as a Burnout to me.
>
IIRC it says that for every two points not spent on an active magic
rating at char. gen., you gain a geasa on your spellcasting/conjuring
skills. This stricture only applies at char gen and not when you decide
to apply that new initiation level to physad abilities instead of active
magic. You can also strip those geasa through initiation at a later date
in time. However, if you suffer magic loss at some point in time, it
will affect your active magic rating first, thereby opening yourself up
to all new geasa. Really, your only a Burnout if you choose to be.

Pilgrim

Further Reading

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