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Message no. 1
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:13:18 +1100
Hoi Chummers, I've been thinking of pulling together a cyberpirate campaign
for some time now, does anybody have any experience with them? Got any
suggestions at all?

Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting? What is in it (besides rules
for the hooks! weehee!)?

Well, that' my question, I'll sit back and read the responses (hopefully).

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 2
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 02:31:26 -0700
At 07:13 11/11/99 +1100, Raije wrote:
>Hoi Chummers, I've been thinking of pulling together a cyberpirate campaign
>for some time now, does anybody have any experience with them? Got any
>suggestions at all?
>
>Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting? What is in it (besides rules
>for the hooks! weehee!)?

Really nice book. I'm not yet finished it, but IMO it's a must-read if you
wish to run a pirate based game, unless you already have alot of your own
ideas for it.

Adam
< http://shadowrun.html.com/tss / adamj@*********.html.com / ICQ# 2350330 >
Message no. 3
From: 00DNA mcmanus@******.albany.edu
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:27:45 -0500
At 07:13 AM 11/11/99 +1100, Raije wrote:
>Hoi Chummers, I've been thinking of pulling together a cyberpirate campaign
>for some time now, does anybody have any experience with them? Got any
>suggestions at all?
>
>Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting? What is in it (besides rules
>for the hooks! weehee!)?

If you're going with a pirates campaign then way yes it's worth it. I've
never run a pirate campaign and I still like the book. Generally when I've
read a negative review of the book or heard someone say something bad about
it, it was always because they say that you won't use the book unless you
are running a pirate campaign. But I think it's a good book even if you're
not.

It has information on parts of the world, the Ivory Coast of Africa and
Madagascar. Info on the Caribbean League and the Philippines.
They describe the pirate action of each area. Each area has it's own type
of pirates and is worth reading even if you set the group in a different
area since you'll now have a better understanding of what types of pirates
are out there.

It also has information on Underwater Habitats (ties into Dunkelzahn's
Secrets).

It's got rules on underwater combat and things like that but I think all
those rules are replicated in the SR3 version of the Shadowrun Companion.
It's also got new vehicle and equipment of course.

All and all I think a good book and if you are running a pirate campaign
then a definate must.


--00DNA
"...user connection terminated."
Message no. 4
From: Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:12:23 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:13 AM 11/11/99 +1100, Raije wrote:
:Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting?

In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA publishes the Ship
Construction Rules that they developed for it. At first, we were told
that they would be released on-line. Then we were told that they'd be
included in Target: Smugglers' Havens, but that didn't come to pass
either, they were cut for space at the last minute. Now the rumor is
that they'll be incorporated into Rigger Redux. Until the Ship
Construction Rules are available, I'm just not buying Cyberpirates or
Target Smugglers' Havens.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 5
From: Lee Decker deckerl@******.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:17:42 -0500
> At 07:13 AM 11/11/99 +1100, Raije wrote:
> :Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting?
>
> In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA publishes the Ship
> Construction Rules that they developed for it. At first, we were told
> that they would be released on-line. Then we were told that they'd be
> included in Target: Smugglers' Havens, but that didn't come to pass
> either, they were cut for space at the last minute. Now the rumor is
> that they'll be incorporated into Rigger Redux. Until the Ship
> Construction Rules are available, I'm just not buying Cyberpirates or
> Target Smugglers' Havens.
>

I don't know if I'd take it that far. Both are fairly well written books,
with good
source material. Hell at that point, I just fudge the rules and make up my
own until
FASA gets its act together. (I've been doing it for awhile anyway waiting on
M&M etc).
I actually have a minor epic campaign I'm working on for my group (probably
kick it off in January), that includes a very nice tour of the carribean
coast, and later California.
(I figure its cold, its a good time to visit the tropics).
The scuba diving rules are even reasonable and decently thought out for an
rpg of course.
Message no. 6
From: Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:38:08 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:17 AM 11/11/99 -0500, Lee Decker wrote:
:::Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting?
::
::In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA publishes the Ship
::Construction Rules that they developed for it.
<<Snip>>
::Until the Ship Construction Rules are available, I'm just not
::buying Cyberpirates or Target Smugglers' Havens.
:
:I don't know if I'd take it that far.

Oh, most people wouldn't. I'm just seizing upon a unique opportunity
here. Most of the time Shadowrun players don't find out there's
something they don't like about a new sourcebook until after they buy
it. At that point, one of the most powerful methods for expressing
their displeasure to FASA: not buying the sourcebook, is unavailable
for them, as they've already bought the thing. So instead, they
express their displeasure by other, much less effective means
(usually by complaining online to other players). In this case, I
know without having to buy the book, that there's something that I
won't like, so I've decided to vote with my wallet.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 7
From: Oliver McDonald oliver@*********.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:18:47 -0800 (PST)
On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:13:18 +1100, Raije wrote:

>Hoi Chummers, I've been thinking of pulling together a cyberpirate campaign
>for some time now, does anybody have any experience with them? Got any
>suggestions at all?

Well, it is different from the normal shadowrun adventure...

>Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting? What is in it (besides rules
>for the hooks! weehee!)?

Well worth getting, has good rules for ship combat, plus other cool goodies. (My rigger
WANTS the underwater exosuit!). But
most of all it has background on the various areas of the world that piracy abounds in,
and has a good rule set and examples
for the type of campaign you are looking at running. Get it.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://www.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.

"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."

ICQ: 38158540
Message no. 8
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:37:22 +0100
According to Paul Gettle, at 10:12 on 11 Nov 99, the word on the street
was...

> In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA publishes the Ship
> Construction Rules that they developed for it.

We've been running a Cyberpirates! campaign for the past year or so, and
are doing quite well without ship construction rules. In fact, we hardly
use vehicle rules at all, instead winging almost everything when it comes
to our PCs trying to board a ship, or the other way around. IMHO you can
run a pirates campaign perfectly well without ship construction rules --
although I immediately admit I would very much like to have those rules
anyway...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Destiny is a state of mind
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:55:41 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:37 PM 11/11/99 +0100, Gurth wrote:
::In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA publishes the Ship
::Construction Rules that they developed for it.
:
:We've been running a Cyberpirates! campaign for the past year or so,
: and are doing quite well without ship construction rules. In fact,
:we hardly use vehicle rules at all, instead winging almost
:everything when it comes to our PCs trying to board a ship, or the
:other way around. IMHO you can run a pirates campaign perfectly
:well without ship construction rules -- although I immediately
:admit I would very much like to have those rules anyway...

I would very much like to have those rules too. I just happen to be
in a position where I can withhold my money from FASA (by not
purchasing Cyberpirates or T:SH) until they put those rules out. :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 10
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 21:06:55 -0200
On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:12:23 -0500
Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> At 07:13 AM 11/11/99 +1100, Raije wrote:
> :Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting?
>
> In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA publishes the Ship
> Construction Rules that they developed for it. At first, we were told
> that they would be released on-line. Then we were told that they'd be
> included in Target: Smugglers' Havens, but that didn't come to pass
> either, they were cut for space at the last minute. Now the rumor is
> that they'll be incorporated into Rigger Redux. Until the Ship
> Construction Rules are available, I'm just not buying Cyberpirates or
> Target Smugglers' Havens.

I feel like buying it just for the world info... You can always
come with new ships without using oficial rules (or any rules at all :)
), and lack of consistency on the vessels wouldn't be a problem if the
designer has experience with standard vehicles. At the very least, some
creative playtesting will point out the problems :) .

Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455
Message no. 11
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 21:06:57 -0200
On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:17:42 -0500
Lee Decker <deckerl@******.com> wrote:

> The scuba diving rules are even reasonable and decently thought out for an
> rpg of course.
>

And I at least look for nothing else (rules that are good for
the game :) ).

Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455
Message no. 12
From: Bull bull@***********.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:48:13 -0500
At 07:13 AM 11/11/99 +1100, you wrote:
>Hoi Chummers, I've been thinking of pulling together a cyberpirate campaign
>for some time now, does anybody have any experience with them? Got any
>suggestions at all?
>
>Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting? What is in it (besides rules
>for the hooks! weehee!)?
>
>Well, that' my question, I'll sit back and read the responses (hopefully).

Cyberpirates is well worth it. An interesting read, and it fleshes out
several new sections of the Shadowrun world. It's worthwhile just for
that. But even more worth it if you plan to run a Cyberpirates campaign.

Another good source of material is the 7th Sea sourcebook, Pirate
Nations. Not necessary, but also an interesting read with some good info
on Pirates, and a handful of Pirate groups that you can easily transfer to
Shadowrun.

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net == bull22@***********.com == bull@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 13
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 20:42:10 -0400
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Paul Gettle."
] In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA publishes the Ship
] Construction Rules that they developed for it. At first, we were told
] that they would be released on-line. Then we were told that they'd be
] included in Target: Smugglers' Havens, but that didn't come to pass
] either, they were cut for space at the last minute. Now the rumor is
] that they'll be incorporated into Rigger Redux. Until the Ship
] Construction Rules are available, I'm just not buying Cyberpirates or
] Target Smugglers' Havens.

I think you're missing out...you should at least try to borrow those
two books. T:SH has neat sections on New Orleans, Vladivostok (sp?),
and overland smuggling. There's some stuff on underwater arcologies
which I didn't care for, but hey, to each their own. Anyway, it's a
decent book.
And not buying the books will cause them to go out of
print...hopefully not the desired reaction :)

-Boondocker
Message no. 14
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:48:10 -0800 (PST)
> :::Is the Cyberpirates sourcebook worth getting?
> ::
> ::In my opinion, it is not worth it until FASA
publishes the Ship Construction Rules that they
developed for it.
> <<Snip>>
> ::Until the Ship Construction Rules are available,
I'm just not buying Cyberpirates or Target Smugglers'
Havens.
> :
> :I don't know if I'd take it that far.
>
> Oh, most people wouldn't. I'm just seizing upon a
unique opportunity here. Most of the time Shadowrun
players don't find out there's something they don't
like about a new sourcebook until after they buy it.
At that point, one of the most powerful methods for
expressing their displeasure to FASA: not buying the
sourcebook, is unavailable for them, as they've
already bought the thing. So instead, they express
their displeasure by other, much less effective means
(usually by complaining online to other players). In
this case, I know without having to buy the book, that
there's something that I won't like, so I've decided
to vote with my wallet.
> -- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000

Hmmm...actually, the boy has a point here.

I thought Paul was just being silly as usual ( ;-) ),
but when I think about it...

As I mentioned, I'm starting a Cyberpirates game set
in the Carib. It's a pirate crew and they're starting
out with their own ship for general naughtiness.
However, when I made their ship, I had to fudge around
with the stats of a ship in Cyberpirates (Stuart class
corvette) and what I ended up with is probably TOTALLY
illegal according to the ship building rules. It
really is inconvenient for many GMs who want to run
this kind of campaign not to have those rules.

It's too late for me to make a "protest vote" by not
buying the books, though - and in any case I don't
think I would. I REALLY love Cyberpirates. Paul's
right - it sucks that it doesn't have the shipbuilding
rules. BUT...it's still a great book. And if you're
prepared to fudge the rules as I'm doing, or abstract
them as Gurth is, then go for it.

*"Shiver me hearties and hoist me mizzenmast on the
timbers!"

Doc' wonders if anyone will get the double meaning...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 15
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:11:54 -0600
:::Until the Ship Construction Rules are available, I'm just not
:::buying Cyberpirates or Target Smugglers' Havens.


How much do the vehicle construction rules in R2 (as opposed to the
customization rules) contribute to your game? If you use them a lot, theres
evidence the absence of ship construction rules might affect your use of the
book. If not, who cares? We don't use the vehicle construction rules at
all, because the stock drones (and customized versions of them) have pretty
much been all we have wanted in our game so far, so I've never cared about
the ship design rules, myself.

Mongoose
Message no. 16
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Pirates
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:24:38 +0100
According to Sebastian Wiers, at 15:11 on 11 Nov 99, the word on the
street was...

> How much do the vehicle construction rules in R2 (as opposed to the
> customization rules) contribute to your game? If you use them a lot, theres
> evidence the absence of ship construction rules might affect your use of the
> book. If not, who cares? We don't use the vehicle construction rules at
> all, because the stock drones (and customized versions of them) have pretty
> much been all we have wanted in our game so far, so I've never cared about
> the ship design rules, myself.

Well... there are a lot more drones (and other vehicles) in Rigger 2,
while in Cyberpirates! there are only a token number of ships -- one of
each, and that's about it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Destiny is a state of mind
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Pirates
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:24:38 +0100
According to Paul Gettle, at 13:55 on 11 Nov 99, the word on the street
was...

> I would very much like to have those rules too. I just happen to be
> in a position where I can withhold my money from FASA (by not
> purchasing Cyberpirates or T:SH) until they put those rules out. :)

The thing is, I think, that that won't work unless FASA knows you're not
buying those books until they publish the rules...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Destiny is a state of mind
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject: Pirates
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:25:20 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 03:11 PM 11/11/99 -0600, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
::Until the Ship Construction Rules are available, I'm just not
::buying Cyberpirates or Target Smugglers' Havens.
:
:How much do the vehicle construction rules in R2 (as opposed to the
:customization rules) contribute to your game? If you use them a
:lot, theres evidence the absence of ship construction rules might
:affect your use of the book.

The rules from R2 contribute quite a lot to games here, actually. :)
And I would like to point out that I was just expressing what was my
opinion, other points of view may vary.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

Further Reading

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