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Message no. 1
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Plastic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:55:25 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: _HeX_ <gyro@********.co.za>
To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@*********.org>
Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 5:42 AM
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost


:Was wondering what kind of Essence cost would be involved with massive
:cosmetic surgery procedures. I'm talking about the person going under
:the knife not resembling the one who comes out the other side. Are
:there any canon references to cosmetic surgery.. costs in terms of
:money, time and essence?
:
:Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands so
:that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour alteration
:without tattooing?



AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGH!
This is to much, I'm just going "no-mail" until MaM is released. Shouldn't
be to long, and I'm busy anyhow.

Mongoose
Message no. 2
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Plastic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:38:06 EDT
In a message dated 10/6/1999 8:48:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*********.com writes:

> :Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands so
> :that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour alteration
> :without tattooing?
> AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGH!
> This is to much, I'm just going "no-mail" until MaM is released.
Shouldn't
> be to long, and I'm busy anyhow.

(sounds of K falling out of his chair, pointing and laughing at Sebastian
with a vengeance only few people could begin to understand)

"Welcome to the Jungle....."

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
Message no. 3
From: Martin Steffens (Berlitz) v-marts@*********.com
Subject: Plastic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 02:44:22 -0700
From: David Cordy [mailto:david.cordy@****.com]

> Not to sound like a jerk, but you just contradicted yourself.
> You are saying that plastic surgery should not cost essence
> because it does not 'add' anything. But if you shorten
> someone's arms then there is a new interaction, the body has to
> get used to this 'new' body part. And as for the sex change,
> you will have to add something to someone either direction you go.

I disagree with the way you interpret this. If you take away bone
you would not lose essence for the same reason that losing an arm
would not cost essence. If you break the bone, use pins to keep
the two end apart and then allow the body to fill up the area in
between with new bone tissue that still would leave you with no
new material added for the purpose of essence cost. It is all
natural to the body like a 100% pure cloned organ (which costs no
essence either).

Note that I didn't say anything about sex changes, last time I
watched a Laurel & Hardy movie they were both of the same gender :).
I agree that there might justification for an essence loss with
that, unless you support the feeling that a fair amount of the
people who undergo that operation actually do it because they feel
captured in the wrong body in which case it would correct the aural
template.


Martin Steffens
e-mail: v-marts@*********.com
phone: 70 666 44
Message no. 4
From: David Cordy david.cordy@****.com
Subject: Plastic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:55:41 -0700
> I disagree with the way you interpret this. If you take away bone
> you would not lose essence for the same reason that losing an arm
> would not cost essence.
<SNIP>
Ah but you can lose essence from losing an arm. Just add a hook. As for
the thought about pins in the leg not costing essence, I guess that could
fall under the same, "there is no connection to the nervous system, and it
is not adding anything to the character, so it shouldn't cost any essence"
argument used for cranial bombs. Except the pins are adding a foreign
material to the body that are helping the person heal. IIRC, they are
mounted to the bone and eventually become part of the bone. Sort of like
the non-retractable cyber-spurs or hand razors, which do cost essence.

> Note that I didn't say anything about sex changes, last time I
> watched a Laurel & Hardy movie they were both of the same gender :).
Yeah, I thought that the name didn't sound right, but it was used in the
original example. :-)

> I agree that there might justification for an essence loss with
> that, unless you support the feeling that a fair amount of the
> people who undergo that operation actually do it because they feel
> captured in the wrong body in which case it would correct the aural
> template.
So then he would have started at a lower essence, and she would only have
recovered the lost essence once the operation was complete. Interesting
idea. Like I said, I hope that M&M clears things up a bit more.

DavidC
Message no. 5
From: Martin Steffens (Berlitz) v-marts@*********.com
Subject: Plastic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:46:14 -0700
From: David Cordy [mailto:david.cordy@****.com]
> Ah but you can lose essence from losing an arm. Just add a hook.

Since when is that the case? I don't have all the newer books, but
everything I do own indicates that as long as there's no interaction
involved and/or functionality change, no essence is lost, with a few
exceptions (the biggest one being bone lacing). I assume you mean
the cyber hook from Cyber Pirates (which I don't have. The book
I mean, not the hook, although I don't have that either :) )?

>As for the thought about pins in the leg not costing essence, I guess
> that could fall under the same, "there is no connection to the
> nervous system, and it is not adding anything to the character, so
> it shouldn't cost any essence" argument used for cranial bombs.

I personally think that cranial bombs should be free essence wise.
Only if you want to set up something twisted like when the victim
thinks about pink elephants it goes boom, or more relevant, when he
copies a certain data file in his memory to a disk that doesn't give
the right confirmation code. IIRC the consensus of most list members
was also that it should be essence free.
If you look however at it from a point of interaction and/or
functionality change, the essence cost does sound reasonable because
the owner does get the added functionality to blow himself up, whether
he wanted that or not.

> Except the pins are adding a foreign material to the body that are
> helping the person heal. IIRC, they are mounted to the bone and
> eventually become part of the bone. Sort of like the non-retractable
> cyber-spurs or hand razors, which do cost essence.

Not in the program I saw. The pins were screwed into the bone at a 90
degree angle and were attached to a ring which was connected to a
similar ring connected to the other end of the leg. Steel pins outside
the leg kept the two bone parts apart and the natural healing process
would grow new bone to fill up the gap. Once it was strong enough the
pins would be removed.
I think the pins that you are talking about are used in multiple
fractures. These do become a part of the bone, but do not interact
with it in the way that cyber does, nor does it add any new
functionality, which the cyber spurs would do.


Martin Steffens
e-mail: v-marts@*********.com
phone: 70 666 44

Further Reading

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Thwap!