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Message no. 1
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Plate Mail
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 00:09:23 +1000
What would you rate plate mail for ballistic and impact?

Damion
Message no. 2
From: Bryan Prince <WALAB@******.HH.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 12:31:08 -0600
If you are asking for Ballistic/Impact for Medieval Armor, I'd say
Ballistic 2-4, Impact 4-6. Remember, the crossbow is what put the Knights
out of business....
Shadowmaster
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 14:20:39 -0400
>>>>> "Bryan" == Bryan Prince
<WALAB@******.HH.VANDERBILT.EDU> writes:

Bryan> If you are asking for Ballistic/Impact for Medieval Armor, I'd say
Bryan> Ballistic 2-4, Impact 4-6. Remember, the crossbow is what put the
Bryan> Knights out of business....

Actually, it was the Brittish and Saracen longbows with arrows tipped with
stilettos instead of the standard broadheads that did it, followed by
cannon. At the time a longbow had greater power than the best crossbows
did; high-powered crossbows came later. Even then, an arrow from a yew
longbow had nearly as much energy behind it as a modern rifle slug.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "Carpe Joltem! (Seize the Caffeine)"
--Me
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
Message no. 4
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 17:15:56 -0400
On Fri, 24 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> What would you rate plate mail for ballistic and impact?
>
Um...munchkin/poser? *grin*
Message no. 5
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 13:41:32 +1000
Jai (who doesnt put his name on the bottom of his posts) writes:

> > What would you rate plate mail for ballistic and impact?
> >
> Um...munchkin/poser? *grin*

Munchkin I fail to see; plate mail would be less effective than a full suit,
and much more fun with the right character. Poser I dont get at all - please
explain the significance.

Damion
Message no. 6
From: John Stawarz aka Chaos Manager <jstawarz@******.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 11:01:20 -0400
> Jai (who doesnt put his name on the bottom of his posts) writes:
>
> > > What would you rate plate mail for ballistic and impact?
> > >
> > Um...munchkin/poser? *grin*
>
> Munchkin I fail to see; plate mail would be less effective than a full suit,
> and much more fun with the right character. Poser I dont get at all - please
> explain the significance.
>
> Damion
>
A poseur is somebody that dresses ina certain way to fit into a certain
crowd. There are poseur gangs that all dress like elves, for example.
They have surgical mods to their ears to give them points on the tips if
they aren't already pointed. There are other incocious stuff that is
done, such as dressing in platemail, carrying sword and shield and
riding a Honda Viking for a warhorse. Hmm... Interesting picture....
8D




--
*****************************************************************
* John Stawarz aka Chaos Manager *
* jstawarz@******.gmu.edu jstawarz@***.edu *
*****************************************************************
* Dawn: The time when men of reason go to bed. *
*****************************************************************

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Message no. 7
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 12:02:01 -0400
On Fri, 24 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> What would you rate plate mail for ballistic and impact?
>
> Damion
>

Pitifully inadequate in the ballistic department.

Marc
Message no. 8
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 12:58:21 -0400
There are stats for the elven type in some book or another. I saw them,
but can't remember where. It was to exactly medieval style steel armor,
but more like modern materials shaped to look that way. Most medieval
steel armor made of plates was aprox. 18 gauge. IMHO that would not stop
any type of bullet from the SRII world. I am a member of the SCA and
have seen rattan dent 18 gauge steel.

FYI: Interlocking rings in a commonly accepted pattern, made of steel,
was known as mail. There is no plate mail, or banded mail. Try using the
word armor instead of mail.

Nigel
Message no. 9
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 15:51:44 -0400
At the end of the era of metal armor, breastplates were made that could
withstand musket balls at close range; so called proof-plate (because the
maker left the dents from the proof shots in it). It was just fairly heavy,
too heavy to be really practical.

You might be able to make a medieval-appearing suit of plate in the
time of Shadowrun that was close to as good but a lot lighter; you'd
have to use modern materials, of course, and you might have a lot of
trouble getting it made.

- cks
Message no. 10
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 18:57:07 -0700
Well Damion,

On Fri, 24 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> What would you rate plate mail for ballistic and impact?
>
> Damion
>
I rated it at 1 Ballistic and 7 Impact (Cut/Crush actually) for Hard World.

Ivy
Message no. 11
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 12:00:48 +1000
cks writes:

> You might be able to make a medieval-appearing suit of plate in the
> time of Shadowrun that was close to as good but a lot lighter; you'd
> have to use modern materials, of course, and you might have a lot of
> trouble getting it made.

I was thinking more along the lines of a character whos spending karma to
get an "armourer" skill. He's a minotaur troll and wants to make himself a
set of _proper_ plate armour.

Nigel writes:

>FYI: Interlocking rings in a commonly accepted pattern, made of steel,
>was known as mail. There is no plate mail, or banded mail. Try using the
>word armor instead of mail.

Really? I spose thats what I get from playing AD&D eh? :-) misinformation.

A question on the accuracy of AD&D; the morning star in the arms and
equipment guide looks rather like what I would call a mace. A long stick
with a bulbous head, possibley with spikes. A morning star I thought was a
shaft with a chain and a spiked ball on the end of the chain.

Damion
Shadowrun shits on AD&D!
Message no. 12
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 01:42:11 -0400
On Fri, 24 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A (who has a drek-inspired
mail-reader which doesn't show the header at the top) wrote:

> Jai (who doesnt put his name on the bottom of his posts) writes:
>
> > > What would you rate plate mail for ballistic and impact?
> > >
> > Um...munchkin/poser? *grin*
>
> Munchkin I fail to see; plate mail would be less effective than a full suit,
> and much more fun with the right character. Poser I dont get at all - please
> explain the significance.
>
It all depends on the type of game you play. In any Shadowrun
game I've been a part of, anybody wearing plate would be fragged as soon
as they looked alone on the streets -- that kind of thick metal is worth
a pile o' nuyen, chummer, and it sure as hell ain't gonna let you move
quiet.
Here in the U.S. (not sure about other countries), the term
"poser" is applied to those who try to act "cool" but aren't doing a
very
good job of it -- for example, all those teeny-boppers (pre-teen rock
fans) who are moaning about Eddie Vetter are what could be called "grunge
posers."
'Twas mainly meant as a joke...if your gameworld can handle
people wearing plate mail in Shadowrun, feel free to enjoy it.

/-----------------\
"Time is so old." | Jai Tao |
-Tony Bennett | jdfalk@****.com |
\-----------------/
Message no. 13
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 14:27:37 -0400
On Sat, 25 Jun 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION wrote:

> A question on the accuracy of AD&D; the morning star in the arms and
> equipment guide looks rather like what I would call a mace. A long stick
> with a bulbous head, possibley with spikes. A morning star I thought was a
> shaft with a chain and a spiked ball on the end of the chain.
>
> Damion
> Shadowrun shits on AD&D!
>

It is a question of nomeclature, really. Depending on who you ask, you
will get different answers. By far, the majority of the medieval weapons
historians, "experts", etc. a "morning star" is a shafted hand weapon
with a spiked or studded ball on the end. A true "mace" has a flanged
head, no spikes. The chain doesn't come into play until you start
talking about flails. Now realize that all of this makes little actual
difference in the effect these weapons have on the human body. They all
break bones, contuse internal organs, and rip flesh and muscle. Not pretty,
but effective.

And yes, Shadowrun shits all over AD&D.

Marc
Message no. 14
From: John Stawarz aka Chaos Manager <jstawarz@******.GMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 1994 20:17:43 -0400
> FYI: Interlocking rings in a commonly accepted pattern, made of steel,
> was known as mail. There is no plate mail, or banded mail. Try using the
> word armor instead of mail.
Uhm, Nigel, assuming that he's trying to come up with a "modern" version
of what's commonly called plate mail, it's a suit of chain mail with
armoured plates over the strategic areas (arms, legs, torso...) The
plate armour is what knights wore. This is the full suit of steel that
you see in European museums and history texts. As a member of the
Society, you probably knew that... 8) ( <--- Note smiley... 8)

> Nigel

--
*****************************************************************
* John Stawarz aka Chaos Manager *
* jstawarz@******.gmu.edu jstawarz@***.edu *
*****************************************************************
* Dawn: The time when men of reason go to bed. *
*****************************************************************

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f? g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
Message no. 15
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 16:56:50 -0400
Damion,
Actually, a "morning star" comes from morgenstern. A morgenstern was a
large pole with a spiked end, (kinda like a baseball bat with nails in
the end) I don't know about the chain thingingy, I think it was just
called a chain mace or holy water sprinkler. Not sure on that so don't
quote me.

Also on someone else's post...

Even Proof plates let through the ocasional musket ball. The problem was
that the metal was worked in uneven thicknesses, so a lucky shot to a
thinner area was very painful. Still, I like the idea of modern materials.
MMMMMMmmm, kevlar plate? Cool. Would look cool with one of those axe
thingingys from SSC.

Nigel
Message no. 16
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Plate Mail
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 17:20:48 -0400
On Sun, 26 Jun 1994, John Stawarz aka Chaos Manager wrote:

> > FYI: Interlocking rings in a commonly accepted pattern, made of steel,
> > was known as mail. There is no plate mail, or banded mail. Try using the
> > word armor instead of mail.
> Uhm, Nigel, assuming that he's trying to come up with a "modern" version
> of what's commonly called plate mail, it's a suit of chain mail with
> armoured plates over the strategic areas (arms, legs, torso...) The
> plate armour is what knights wore. This is the full suit of steel that
> you see in European museums and history texts. As a member of the
> Society, you probably knew that... 8) ( <--- Note smiley... 8)
>
> > Nigel
>
> --
> *****************************************************************
> * John Stawarz aka Chaos Manager *
> * jstawarz@******.gmu.edu jstawarz@***.edu *
> *****************************************************************
> * Dawn: The time when men of reason go to bed. *
> *****************************************************************
>
> Geek Code (1.0.1) GCS/O -d+ p c++(c---) l u+ e+ m+(*) s+/++ n---(!n) h--
> f? g+ w++ t+ r+ !y
>
Well yea, but...
Whenever I see the term "Plate Mail" when reading about, or discussing
RPG's, I instantly think of the D&D explanation. So I used a simplified
explanation. If you don't like it, cane me. Question, does 1" 1/2
rattan hurt more than 1/2" rattan? :-)

Nigel
SKA Gunther Freud
Ambassador to AEthelmark
Great Dark Horde

Further Reading

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