Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: _HeX_ gyro@********.co.za
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:40:30 +0200
Was wondering what kind of Essence cost would be involved with massive
cosmetic surgery procedures. I'm talking about the person going under
the knife not resembling the one who comes out the other side. Are
there any canon references to cosmetic surgery.. costs in terms of
money, time and essence?

Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands so
that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour alteration
without tattooing?

Thanks

- + - HeX
<hex@*************.com>

RULE NO 1
DONT GET CAUGHT
Message no. 2
From: Till K till_k@***.net
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:17:14 +0200
>Was wondering what kind of Essence cost would be involved with massive
>cosmetic surgery procedures. I'm talking about the person going under
>the knife not resembling the one who comes out the other side. Are
>there any canon references to cosmetic surgery.. costs in terms of
>money, time and essence?

In Shadowrun First Edition, p.145 there is an entry for "Minor Cosmetic
Surgery", including surgeon. The price is 1,000 nuyen. The entire table
section for surgery costs has been reused in Cybertechnology, p.53, so I
think the costs are still applicable. There are no essence costs, but the
character is left with a light wound (SRI, p.144).
But "this minor plastic surgery does not involve the eyes, muscles, or
nervous system. Examples are a nose job or an ear bobbing." I would simply
judge that drastic changes belong in the next category, Minor Invasive
Surgery, moderate wound, 5000 nuyen, "any cosmetic surgery involving the
whole body, or your eyes, muscles, or nervous system". (SRI, p.144) An
example is "a whole body skin graft". However, no essence costs are
mentioned, just that cyberware up to .4 belongs in this category.
Hope this helps


-- Till K ]B-]

-> http://www.stud.uni-hamburg.de/users/till <-
*** ICQ 47127051 ***

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK V3.12-----
GS d-@ s: a20 C+ U? P L E? W++(+) N o? K? w(-) O? M>+ V? PS+ PE++ Y+
PGP? t+@ 5- X- R+(++)* tv-- b+++(++) DI- D+ G e+>++++* h(+,*) r-- y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 3
From: Martin Steffens (Berlitz) v-marts@*********.com
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:32:42 -0700
From: _HeX_ [mailto:gyro@********.co.za]

> Was wondering what kind of Essence cost would be involved with
> massive cosmetic surgery procedures. I'm talking about the person
> going under the knife not resembling the one who comes out the
> other side. Are there any canon references to cosmetic surgery..
> costs in terms of money, time and essence?

Apart from the spot that Till K mentioned I can't think of anywhere
else. I would be very loathe to have this type of surgery cost
essence though; you're not adding anything that creates a new
interaction with the natural body. As for costs and time use your
own judgement on the complexity of the surgery and then assign a
wound level to it. For example a light wound for nose jobs, breast,
lipo-suction; a medium for a facial reconstruction involving some
structural bone changes, shortening arms and legs; and a serious
for more extreme cases where you put Stan on the table and end up
with Laurel at the end. YKMV (like that one Gurth :). The costs
could be 1000 for light; 5000-10,000 for medium and 20,000 up for
serious.

All depending on how big a part you have nanites play in your game,
but I personally dislike players trying to get it cheap by having
the nanites fix them.

> Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands
> so that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour
> alteration without tattooing?

The first one would be pretty simple, although keep in mind that
even if you like, for example, chocolate, having the taste 24-7
in your mouth should make any one sick.
IIRC the skin colour is a case of changing your melanin (sp?)
density under your skin. It could be pretty straightforward to
have them chemically altered into a different colour and/or
set up a procedure to increase/decrease the density. Note that
you would look very weird if you only change your skin colour
from white to black without some minor surgery to adapt your
facial features too.
Message no. 4
From: dbuehrer@****.org dbuehrer@****.org
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 07:59:40 -0600
Martin Steffens (Berlitz) wrote:
\ From: _HeX_ [mailto:gyro@********.co.za]
\
\ > Was wondering what kind of Essence cost would be involved with
\ > massive cosmetic surgery procedures. I'm talking about the person
\ > going under the knife not resembling the one who comes out the
\ > other side. Are there any canon references to cosmetic surgery..
\ > costs in terms of money, time and essence?
\
\ Apart from the spot that Till K mentioned I can't think of anywhere
\ else. I would be very loathe to have this type of surgery cost
\ essence though; you're not adding anything that creates a new
\ interaction with the natural body. As for costs and time use your
\ own judgement on the complexity of the surgery and then assign a
\ wound level to it. For example a light wound for nose jobs, breast,
\ lipo-suction; a medium for a facial reconstruction involving some
\ structural bone changes, shortening arms and legs; and a serious
\ for more extreme cases where you put Stan on the table and end up
\ with Laurel at the end. YKMV (like that one Gurth :). The costs
\ could be 1000 for light; 5000-10,000 for medium and 20,000 up for
\ serious.

I would only consider a chance for essence loss if the surgery was "Deadly"
(and then I'd probably have the PC check for essence loss the same way a
mage checks for magic loss if he receives a Deadly wound).

\ All depending on how big a part you have nanites play in your game,
\ but I personally dislike players trying to get it cheap by having
\ the nanites fix them.

Heh :) I remember when I first found out about nanites when I was a
player, and wanted to use nanites to do everything. The novelty has since
worn off (especially now that I GM most of the time).

\ > Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands
\ > so that they produce flavoured saliva?
\
\ The first one would be pretty simple, although keep in mind that
\ even if you like, for example, chocolate, having the taste 24-7
\ in your mouth should make any one sick.

Actually, you'd get used to it and your enjoyment of real chocolate would
decrease considerably. It's along the same lines of why you can't really
smell/taste your own breath/mouth. If you're exposed to a flavor or aroma
long enough the brain (or sensory organs, can't remember which) will ignore
it (it hasn't killed you yet, it must not be a threat, it doesn't matter
anymore).

-Graht
--
"The light is reached not by turning back from the darkness,
but by going through it."
Message no. 5
From: Aaron saarons@*****.colostate.edu
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:11:18 -0600
At 07:59 AM 10/06/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>Martin Steffens (Berlitz) wrote:
>\ From: _HeX_
>\ the nanites fix them.
>
>Heh :) I remember when I first found out about nanites when I was a
>player, and wanted to use nanites to do everything.

A sci-fi I read a while back had nanites used for this purpose as well as
"un-aging" the individual, but there was the risk of the little machines
doing too much damage to the body. At the end of the story one of the
characters gets reduced to a fetal stage. I guess they would have to have
womb shadows to run in from that point on....




S. Aaron Spriggs, Bugologist
Entomologists know how to spread 'em and pin 'em.
Message no. 6
From: David Cordy david.cordy@****.com
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:29:35 -0700
> I would be very loathe to have this type of surgery cost
> essence though; you're not adding anything that creates a new
> interaction with the natural body.
> <SNIP>
> a medium for a facial reconstruction involving some
> structural bone changes, shortening arms and legs; and a serious
> for more extreme cases where you put Stan on the table and end up
> with Laurel at the end.
>
Not to sound like a jerk, but you just contradicted yourself. You are
saying that plastic surgery should not cost essence because it does not
'add' anything. But if you shorten someone's arms then there is a new
interaction, the body has to get used to this 'new' body part. And as for
the sex change, you will have to add something to someone either direction
you go. So Laurel should take an essence hit, because her new physical
shape sure as hell does not match Stan's astral template (or whatever).
I sure hope that M&M clears some of this up. Anyone see the final released
version in the stores yet?

DavidC
Message no. 7
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:42:06 -0400
> From: Martin Steffens (Berlitz) [mailto:v-marts@*********.com]
> Sent: October 6, 1999 09:33
>
> From: _HeX_ [mailto:gyro@********.co.za]
> > Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands
> > so that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour
> > alteration without tattooing?
>
> The first one would be pretty simple, although keep in mind that
> even if you like, for example, chocolate, having the taste 24-7
> in your mouth should make any one sick.

Nah, you'd just ignore the taste after a while - the human brain
filters out stuff that never changes. Besides which, I don't
think that was the point... I think it was more along the lines
of a flavour for *other* people to taste...

Which means you'd want something light and subtle. Strawberry,
for instance; maybe peach or even a hint of lemon...

James Ojaste
Message no. 8
From: dbuehrer@****.org dbuehrer@****.org
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:54:31 -0600
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
\ > From: Martin Steffens (Berlitz) [mailto:v-marts@*********.com]
\ > Sent: October 6, 1999 09:33
\ >
\ > From: _HeX_ [mailto:gyro@********.co.za]
\ > > Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands
\ > > so that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour
\ > > alteration without tattooing?
\ >
\ > The first one would be pretty simple, although keep in mind that
\ > even if you like, for example, chocolate, having the taste 24-7
\ > in your mouth should make any one sick.
\
\ Nah, you'd just ignore the taste after a while - the human brain
\ filters out stuff that never changes. Besides which, I don't
\ think that was the point... I think it was more along the lines
\ of a flavour for *other* people to taste...
\
\ Which means you'd want something light and subtle. Strawberry,
\ for instance; maybe peach or even a hint of lemon...

...or a touch of cherry with a hint of vanilla :)

Anyway, I'm sure you could have something installed that would squirt a
flavor into your mouth when you wanted to (as opposed to permanently
altering the flavor of your saliva).

In addition to using this for instant flavor (making that soy burger taste
like real beef), or use in intimate situations, one could use it as a
trigger. A street sam might use the flavor of strawberry to put himself in
a meditative trance/combat mode.

Or, a corp NPC might be hypnotised to become calm when he tastes almonds,
and stress triggers the flavor injector, so he's a more efficient worker.

Or an assassin might use flavors to trigger different personalities
(established under hypnosis).

I runner might be kissing the new girl in his life (a fun, bubbly
personality) and suddenly taste mint instead of strawberrys, and find
himself staring down the barrel of a gun being held by a cold hearted killer.

Just some thoughts :)

-Graht
--
"Warm nights, good food, kindred spirits....great life!"
Message no. 9
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:07:40 -0400
> From: dbuehrer@****.org [mailto:dbuehrer@****.org]
> Sent: October 6, 1999 11:55
>
> Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> \ > > Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands
> \ > > so that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour
> \ > > alteration without tattooing?
[snip]
> \ think that was the point... I think it was more along the lines
> \ of a flavour for *other* people to taste...
> \
> \ Which means you'd want something light and subtle. Strawberry,
> \ for instance; maybe peach or even a hint of lemon...
>
> ...or a touch of cherry with a hint of vanilla :)

Doh! How could I forget cherry and vanilla!? ;-)
Butterscotch, apple, coconut... Now I'm getting hungry!

> Anyway, I'm sure you could have something installed that
> would squirt a
> flavor into your mouth when you wanted to (as opposed to permanently
> altering the flavor of your saliva).

Hmm. I was thinking that this'd have to be cyber, but you could
probably bio-up some poison sacs or something... This would solve
the problem of getting used to the taste, but you'd only have so
many "squirts" a day.

> In addition to using this for instant flavor (making that soy
> burger taste
> like real beef), or use in intimate situations, one could use it as a

Or even as a digestive aid - lactose intolerant? Just remember to
squirt before you drink that milk...

> trigger. A street sam might use the flavor of strawberry to
> put himself in
> a meditative trance/combat mode.

Hmm. I'd choose a stronger flavour myself, but... :-)

> Or, a corp NPC might be hypnotised to become calm when he
> tastes almonds,

Hah! That's just too funny!

> and stress triggers the flavor injector, so he's a more
> efficient worker.

Yeah, subconscious triggers would be cool... An alternate sort
of Display Link; a bitter taste for No, a sweet one for Yes? A
distinctive taste when you get paged (for times when even Vibrate is
too loud)...

> Or an assassin might use flavors to trigger different personalities
> (established under hypnosis).
>
> I runner might be kissing the new girl in his life (a fun, bubbly
> personality) and suddenly taste mint instead of strawberrys, and find
> himself staring down the barrel of a gun being held by a cold
> hearted killer.

Heh. I must admit, this would be one cool piece of ware!

James Ojaste
Message no. 10
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:41:12 -0400
> > Or, a corp NPC might be hypnotised to become calm when he
> > tastes almonds,
>
> Hah! That's just too funny!

Even more funny; whenever someone gave him cyanide, he'd just get very
calm...and then dry up and die.

"Ah. I see you've poisoned me." Pause. "Well, that seems unfortunate. I'd
rather you hadn't done that." Pause. "Oh, well. I don't suppose you'd like
some coffee, perhaps, or tea? I keep a fully stocked wet bar, as well, you
should know. Would you like anything?" Pause. "Oh, my." Thud.
Message no. 11
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:13:46 -0400
> From: abortion_engine [mailto:abortion_engine@*******.com]
> Sent: October 6, 1999 12:41
>
> > > Or, a corp NPC might be hypnotised to become calm when he
> > > tastes almonds,
> > Hah! That's just too funny!
> Even more funny; whenever someone gave him cyanide, he'd just get very
> calm...and then dry up and die.

Uh, not to steal your thunder or anything, but that's what I meant... :-)

James Ojaste
Message no. 12
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:32:55 -0400
> > > > Or, a corp NPC might be hypnotised to become calm when he
> > > > tastes almonds,
> > > Hah! That's just too funny!
> > Even more funny; whenever someone gave him cyanide, he'd just get very
> > calm...and then dry up and die.
>
> Uh, not to steal your thunder or anything, but that's what I meant... :-)
>
Oh. Well then.
Message no. 13
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:09:47 +0200
According to Martin Steffens (Berlitz), at 6:32 on 6 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> Apart from the spot that Till K mentioned I can't think of anywhere
> else. I would be very loathe to have this type of surgery cost
> essence though

Same here. Unless it involves things like unnatural materials being
inserted into the body (I'm sure I don't have to name the prime example),
there should be no Essence cost, and even when things are added, the
Essence cost would be negligible. Depending on the materials used, it
might even be a Body cost.

> YKMV (like that one Gurth :)

We're not Americans, we don't use miles... *must... resist... urge to
rant...*

> The costs could be 1000 for light; 5000-10,000 for medium and 20,000 up
> for serious.

I'd just use the surgery costs from Cybertechnology, though I'd probably
make many things a step up from what you mentioned -- full body
reconstruction I would classify as Deadly damage, with the accompanying
250,000 nuyen price tag.

> > Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands
> > so that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour
> > alteration without tattooing?
>
> The first one would be pretty simple, although keep in mind that
> even if you like, for example, chocolate, having the taste 24-7
> in your mouth should make any one sick.

Or not taste it anymore at all except in large doses. Although taste isn't
smell, if you smell something for long enough you won't notice it unless
there's a large concentration. Case in point: I don't smell paint unless
I'm actually sniffing at the tin or bottle.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I would have it all if I'd only have this much
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject: Platic Surgery Essence Cost
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:06:37 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 06:32 AM 10/6/99 -0700, Martin Steffens (Berlitz) wrote:
:> Also, would 2060 tech make it possible to enhance saliva glands
:> so that they produce flavoured saliva? How about skin colour
:> alteration without tattooing?
:
:The first one would be pretty simple, although keep in mind that
:even if you like, for example, chocolate, having the taste 24-7
:in your mouth should make any one sick.

Actually, you'd just become de-sensitized to that particular taste.
After a period of acclimation, you wouldn't taste it any more,
because the particular chemio-receptors would just stop firing.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>;

iQCVAwUBN/udsqPbvUVI86rNAQHrhwP+NgZbNq12nMyERC2BvtW2GELwKp6zUd8v
JynUAjDJz0FuWSl53sIZV6Ls7UMcevVGmf9hLroiPo2MBfw8jsqQ7MNVXC871KYD
mRPCiDYTAnfFQP4AJSJav2nQE5wP91fKFckqfrIHDrQLelR1hSL96nIYsBNnS9MX
A8tu2yxXTuAÜR+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Platic Surgery Essence Cost, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!