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From:	Drea O'Dare <dreaodare@*******.COM>
Subject:	Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:13:31 PDT

Message no. 1 I am now going to do a little rant - don't worry Dagwood, it's just a
small one.
Does anyone else have players that just will NOT accept that a Johnson
doesn't have all the information about everything? I mean, this is the
guy that just pays you and tells you that there IS a run. It's supposed
to be up to you to figure out the hows and whys.
You're in the beginning of the run, the players have just met the
Johnson, took the price, and are now thinking about what they've gotten
themselves into. Admittedly, my players are paranoid because, let's
face it. a Blade Runner game is bound to bite them in the butt.
But why do they start asking the Johnson questions? I mean, this is
where stuff like your contacts comes into play, right? You have a
decker, use 'em. There's plenty of info available right on the street,
but they assume the Johnson, because s/he's basically the voice of the
GM, knows all.
I once had to have one say "Now just how the hell am I supposed to
know that?!" when they started asking specifics about the security.
It's one reason I don't use any PCs of mine as NPCs. You get too
tempted to help them along to much and baby them. Maybe they've just
gotten complacent?
Anyway, I was just wonderinf if anyone else had this prob. And what
they do about it. I'll hold off any talk about orgies and such.

Pink`

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From:	"Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:51:22 +1000

Message no. 2 > I am now going to do a little rant - don't worry Dagwood, it's just
> a small one.
> Does anyone else have players that just will NOT accept that a
> Johnson doesn't have all the information about everything? I mean,
> this is the guy that just pays you and tells you that there IS a run.
> It's supposed to be up to you to figure out the hows and whys.
> You're in the beginning of the run, the players have just met the
> Johnson, took the price, and are now thinking about what they've
> gotten themselves into. Admittedly, my players are paranoid because,
> let's face it. a Blade Runner game is bound to bite them in the butt.
> But why do they start asking the Johnson questions? I mean, this is
> where stuff like your contacts comes into play, right? You have a
> decker, use 'em. There's plenty of info available right on the
> street, but they assume the Johnson, because s/he's basically the
> voice of the GM, knows all.
> I once had to have one say "Now just how the hell am I supposed to
> know that?!" when they started asking specifics about the security.
> It's one reason I don't use any PCs of mine as NPCs. You get too
> tempted to help them along to much and baby them. Maybe they've just
> gotten complacent?
> Anyway, I was just wonderinf if anyone else had this prob. And what
> they do about it. I'll hold off any talk about orgies and such.
>
> Pink`
>
Hell yes - but they're not as bad as yours. A lot of mine tend to assume
that the decker is god and king and can find out anything. And that's
it's all there to be found out. The main decker in my game, who's
admittedly an Otaku and thus is rather good at getting into and out of
places in the matrix, sometimes gets a bit headstrong. She (the player
is a he) was trying to get into a Humanis datastore a little while ago.
I said, sure. Just don't forget, they aren't exactly pushovers - and
don't expect a lot. (I'd already given them a few hints and they'd
interrogated a few people and they basically knew that Humanis
headquarters knew jack about the details of what was going down - or at
least, they'd know that if they thought about it and put it all
together.) So she goes in - I even let her use her contacts at
Shadowland to find someone with a backdoor into the place (aren't I
nice? :) ). Takes moderate stun, gets just about everything there is to
find and jacks out. Okay, I'm fine with that. So I ask her (him?) what
she's going to do next.

"Oh, I'm gonna lie still and pretend I'm still jacked in until I've
gotten rid of all the stun, then go back in."

"Are you sure? I mean, you DID manage to start an active alert."

"Yup."

So, half an hour later, Super Otaku Girl hits the place again. "Bummer,"
I say. "The place is crawling with horrible black stuff. Seems they
haven't gone down off active alert."

SOG just shrugs. "They're just Humanis. I'm going in."

"Errr...are you sure? After all, it looks like you've gotten everything
that was in the datastores except for the super, super secret stuff."

"Yup."

So, a Deadly stun and Moderate physical wound later, SOG is out on her
back, having found nothing new (as I had hinted very, very strongly,
there wasn't anything else she was going to find at that time and place
anyway!) and the other players are none the wiser, because she can't
talk for the next two hours until she wakes up.

Well, that's not REALLY stupid - but if you keep bugging your GM he
isn't likely to give out more data than he's prepared to just to shut
you up. More likely you're going to get creamed and he'll sit there
ignoring you, telling you to shut up for the next two hours until your
character wakes up. Know what I mean?

I think I'm rather blessed, though. This is worst example I have so far
in my campaign.

As for what to do - just keep giving out hints - or if they keep asking
after you've repeatedly told them he doesn't know, have your Johnson get
frustrated and MAKE THINGS UP! When they come back to complain to him,
have him sit behind a large number of big men (as they'll likely be
rather pissed-off and well-armed) and say, "Well, I TOLD you that I
didn't know! None of my other teams are stupid enough to ask me
questions like that.", or something along those lines.

*Doc' flips burgers while whistling happily and donning an apron saying,
"Hail to the GM"*

Doc'

.sig Sauer

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:35:15 +0200

Message no. 3 According to Drea O'Dare, at 0:13 on 24 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> But why do they start asking the Johnson questions? I mean, this is
> where stuff like your contacts comes into play, right? You have a
> decker, use 'em. There's plenty of info available right on the street,
> but they assume the Johnson, because s/he's basically the voice of the
> GM, knows all.

Not necessarily. I think the main reasons to ask a Johnson questions are
the reasoning that 1) this is the person who hired you, so he/she is bound
to know _something_ about why you're being paid, and 2) anything you're
told now, you don't need to find out later (<hint>or you can double-check
it with your contacts later -- which my players usually don't do.</hint>
:)

> I once had to have one say "Now just how the hell am I supposed to
> know that?!" when they started asking specifics about the security.

OTOH not all Mr. Johnsons are the sae -- some may have the info the PCs
are asking for, and are willing to share that info with the runners, for
the simple reason that it'll get the job done sooner than when the runners
spend an extra few days checking these things out for themselves.

Still, a Mr. Johnson could use the same tactics to lie to the runners
about these things to make them do the things Mr. Johnson's employers want
them to do, but about which the runners haven't been told...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Unconsciousness is no excuse.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:37:24 +1000

Message no. 4 At 12:13 AM 9/24/98 PDT, Pinkling scribbled:
> I am now going to do a little rant - don't worry Dagwood, it's just a
>small one.
> Does anyone else have players that just will NOT accept that a Johnson
>doesn't have all the information about everything? I mean, this is the
>guy that just pays you and tells you that there IS a run. It's supposed
>to be up to you to figure out the hows and whys.

Don't flame me for saying this, but pretty much everyone I've ever gamed
with or have seen gaming has, at one point or another, assumed that the
Johnson knows _everything_ about the run (site security, personnel,
scheduling, political situation, relationship to those curious
disappearances of one sock out of every pair - _everything_) and that he
just requires some 'persuasion' to tell all that he knows (whether this be
cutting the fee for the services, asking him really nicely, promising to do
a better job, or <sob> threatening to shoot him).
Maybe that says something about the people I play with, or about people
in general, I don't know, but whatever way you want to look at, the point
stands that players will sometimes make the assumption that the Johnson
knows it all and is just waiting to tell them it. How you stop that
assumption is a matter of _educating_ the players (so it may take some
time). =)
There are players out there that will not accept a run from a Johnson who
doesn't offer them enough information up front. Obviously, there are
situations that arise where there is too little information even for
professional shadowrunners to risk taking the job (You don't know how big
the target is, what it does, where it is, or who owns it?), but all in all,
if a Johnson can give the character the name of the company, what he has to
do to the company, and an overview of the expected security, he should be
happy enough. If he's not, then there are problems.

> You're in the beginning of the run, the players have just met the
>Johnson, took the price, and are now thinking about what they've gotten
>themselves into. Admittedly, my players are paranoid because, let's
>face it. a Blade Runner game is bound to bite them in the butt.

All shadowrunners (and players of shadowrun for that matter) _should_ be
paranoid. If they aren't, they're simply just passing the time until their
deaths (or at least the death of their character). There's simply too much
to go wrong leading a life of crime - especially when you don't have
something like a SIN that affords you legal representation and the like.

> But why do they start asking the Johnson questions? I mean, this is
>where stuff like your contacts comes into play, right? You have a
>decker, use 'em. There's plenty of info available right on the street,
>but they assume the Johnson, because s/he's basically the voice of the
>GM, knows all.

Questions _are_ okay, in the right situations. Whether or not a
character should start asking questions depends on the type of runners and
the type of Johnson. Runners with reputations for being professionals
_shouldn't_ have to ask questions from the Johnson about the security of
the site, the situation in the shadows, and so on - they should have enough
contacts or enough clout to get the information they need (with a little
work of course). Street-level thugs, however, are a different matter.
Sure, they may have contacts in various places, but they're more likely to
require input from the Johnson (given that most of the shadowruns these
sort of people will commit are muscledowns, kidnappings, wetwork, break and
enters, and the like, all on low-level targets, this shouldn't be too much
of a problem - the Johnson will tell them the address, tell them that there
are most likely to be six or seven hired gang-thugs with Uzis, and then
just lets them go.)
In general though, the runners should be professional enough not to ask
anything but pertinent questions (how big is the target, what other factors
are involved, what exactly _aren't_ you tell us, and so on). Questions
about scheduling, personnel, security, corporate political situation, and
the like are definite no-nos. The runners are meant to find that out for
themselves - hell, half the reason the Johnson's hires them may be the fact
that they have better and more reliable sources of information than he,
himself does.

> I once had to have one say "Now just how the hell am I supposed to
>know that?!" when they started asking specifics about the security.
>It's one reason I don't use any PCs of mine as NPCs. You get too
>tempted to help them along to much and baby them. Maybe they've just
>gotten complacent?
> Anyway, I was just wonderinf if anyone else had this prob. And what
>they do about it. I'll hold off any talk about orgies and such.

The easiest way to stop characters from saying no to every run where they
don't get the answers they want is to simply have the Johnson walk away.
After a few Johnsons walk out, the characters will start to build
themselves a reputation. The worse their reputation gets, the fewer job
offers they'll receive and the less income they'll generate. Eventually
the characters will realize that they need the money to survive and will
_have_ to accept a shadowrun.
One of the other things you can do is organize a few of shadowruns
remotely - don't go for the stereotypical fixer-call and meeting, instead
send a parcel (via secure courier) to a fixer known to one of the
characters, consisting of nothing more than several locked credsticks, a
fee for the fixer, and a datachip containing the basics of the shadowrun
("Make Freefall Cybernetics look bad inside of ten days and those 10,000¥
credsticks you're holding in your hands will be unlocked, otherwise they
expire in ten days becoming completely worthless. If you cannot for some
reason accept this shadowrun leave a message on the Renraku Datatrack Mint
Coinage Chat Board for Ernest with a message containing the phrases 'went
to Tijuana' and 'way to munch Barbara'"). The fixer knows nothing except
that he's getting paid to get a job done, the characters know only what is
on the chip (though they could probably track the Johnson down if they
_really_ needed to) and that isn't much - the name of the corporation and
maybe a vague idea of how to make them look bad ("Food contamination is the
most feasible means of affecting said corporations reputation.") Then sit
back and watch the players squirm. If they're as used to asking questions
as I think they are, they'll be hating this.
Just as they're discussing whether or not to do the run, have something
turn up that offers the characters some basic information to do with the
run (one of the characters' decker contacts calls him up to borrow money
and just casually mentions that he needs the money to get a new X90-#E40
chip for his deck - since the old one got wasted on this fraggin' ICy
system over at Freefall, for example). (Yeah, I know it's heavy handed but
it works, so...) Then watch the players perk up. What's this? There's
information out there that just drops into your lap? If this is what we
get without trying.... what'll we get if we look? Drop a few hints here
and there that there might be more information out there (even have the
decker contact offer to set them up to debrief the ground team for his
previous Freefall escapade if you have to).
Continue this level of babying them for a few runs, making the
information steadily harder to get at - though much more extensive when
they do manage to get it. If you also throw in some decent character
interaction with various contacts, and cultivate minor storylines and
involvements with them and _their_ contacts, you'll eventually end up with
a group of characters who won't do _anything_ without first checking the
word on the street.
Anyway, so much for ranting and raving. If you are interested in more
of this sort of stuff, I've got a netbook underway on exactly this kind of
topic, you can check out the basics on my website under the Fiction
heading. Oh, and if you find any problems (and I know that you all will),
email me with them.

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

From:	Drea O'Dare <dreaodare@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:32:11 PDT

Message no. 5 > Don't flame me for saying this, but pretty much everyone I've ever
gamed
>with or have seen gaming has, at one point or another, assumed that the
>Johnson knows _everything_ about the run

No offense taken, don't worry. I'm talkin' not about the regular
questions like "How big is the target?" but stuff like "What's his third
cousin's last name?"

> The easiest way to stop characters from saying no to every run where
they
>don't get the answers they want is to simply have the Johnson walk
away.

Ah, if only that were possible. I'll make sure to make you watch as
they all glare at me for an hour or so afterwards for "Wasting their
time." :P

> One of the other things you can do is organize a few of shadowruns
>remotely - don't go for the stereotypical fixer-call and meeting,
instead
>send a parcel

hmmm...interesting premise.

>it works, so...) Then watch the players perk up. What's this?
There's
>information out there that just drops into your lap? If this is what
we
>get without trying.... what'll we get if we look

Ha! No, they'll wait for more info to fall in their laps while
secretly having orgies.

> Anyway, so much for ranting and raving. If you are interested in
more
>of this sort of stuff, I've got a netbook underway on exactly this kind
of
>topic, you can check out the basics on my website under the Fiction
>heading. Oh, and if you find any problems (and I know that you all
will),
>email me with them.

Checkin' it out now. thanks for the suggestions though. (I figured
I'd keep this thread public for a little while yet. i've gotten some
great suggestions on it so far)

Pink`

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From:	bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:03:51 -0400

Message no. 6 Just to add my $0.02 to this little discussion...

I really don't care how many questions they ask. There are some
they *shouldn't* ask but all in all I don't care about the questions
themselves.
What annoys me is when the players take a tone and attitude that
the Johnson is jerking them around just to get his jollies. While this
can be the case, the majority of J's are hiring cause they need
something done. not just to lure street folk into a discussion.
I've had players actually get offended that the J didn't spill
more info. Or that he didn't want to pay a group of starting runners
100k for a snatch and grab. (I was thinking around 20k and let them have
50k cause they had a good reference, the Don Enzo Cappinetti, Don of
Seattle)

From:	Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:19:25 -0400

Message no. 7 Drea O'Dare wrote:
>
> I am now going to do a little rant - don't worry Dagwood, it's just a
> small one.
> Does anyone else have players that just will NOT accept that a Johnson
> doesn't have all the information about everything? I mean, this is the
> guy that just pays you and tells you that there IS a run. It's supposed
> to be up to you to figure out the hows and whys.
> You're in the beginning of the run, the players have just met the
> Johnson, took the price, and are now thinking about what they've gotten
> themselves into. Admittedly, my players are paranoid because, let's
> face it. a Blade Runner game is bound to bite them in the butt.

We're still waiting on that, Pink...it's gonna happen, we know it's
gonna happen...no one offers that kinda money for a stroll in the
park...

> But why do they start asking the Johnson questions? I mean, this is
> where stuff like your contacts comes into play, right? You have a
> decker, use 'em. There's plenty of info available right on the street,
> but they assume the Johnson, because s/he's basically the voice of the
> GM, knows all.

I once, in a fit of evil-gmness, had the Johnson burst into tears when
the big bad shadowrunners pushed him too hard for info and more money.
The poor guy had had no sleep, no food, and no rest for almost four
days, and, well, they pushed a little too hard. At least they had the
decency to feel like heels about it when the waterworks started...

--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>

"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm

From:	Drea O'Dare <dreaodare@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:31:44 PDT

Message no. 8 >We're still waiting on that, Pink...it's gonna happen, we know it's
>gonna happen...no one offers that kinda money for a stroll in the
>park...

Depends on the park. Sides....um...when have I ever used the temas
own skills against 'em? Okay, pretend I didn't say that....uh....

>I once, in a fit of evil-gmness, had the Johnson burst into tears when
>the big bad shadowrunners pushed him too hard for info and more money.
>The poor guy had had no sleep, no food, and no rest for almost four
>days, and, well, they pushed a little too hard. At least they had the
>decency to feel like heels about it when the waterworks started...

I wish I was there for that. Instead I get the LOOK from Jett ceause
I happen to mention the Dwarf Shaver. Taught me a lesson. <whistles>

Pink`

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From:	Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:08:03 -0400

Message no. 9 Drea O'Dare wrote:
>
> >We're still waiting on that, Pink...it's gonna happen, we know it's
> >gonna happen...no one offers that kinda money for a stroll in the
> >park...
>
> Depends on the park. Sides....um...when have I ever used the temas
> own skills against 'em? Okay, pretend I didn't say that....uh....

How about just pretending I didn't HEAR that? :>

>
> >I once, in a fit of evil-gmness, had the Johnson burst into tears when
> >the big bad shadowrunners pushed him too hard for info and more money.
> >The poor guy had had no sleep, no food, and no rest for almost four
> >days, and, well, they pushed a little too hard. At least they had the
> >decency to feel like heels about it when the waterworks started...
>
> I wish I was there for that. Instead I get the LOOK from Jett ceause
> I happen to mention the Dwarf Shaver. Taught me a lesson. <whistles>

Hey, I never gave you a look, much less a Look! I was just
elucidating...really. I mean, Jett helped hold him down!

--Jett, who thinks she's really in for it now...

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>

"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm

From:	Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:21:20 +1000

Message no. 10 At 12:32 PM 9/24/98 PDT, Pinkers wrote:
> No offense taken, don't worry. I'm talkin' not about the regular
>questions like "How big is the target?" but stuff like "What's his
third
>cousin's last name?"
> Ah, if only that were possible. I'll make sure to make you watch as
>they all glare at me for an hour or so afterwards for "Wasting their
>time." :P

Well, you can always do what I do - abuse them after the session for
their shortcomings... Seriously though, you might want to point out to
them that _they're_ wasting their own time if they expect to be babyed
_all_ the time. If they don't accept the run that's on offer and can't
plan one of their own, then they're not going to get any work. Let them
sit around doing background interactions (no... not orgies...) for a while
and build up the attitude of the street, their friends, contacts, and so
on. Then try again.
If they won't take the next offered run for the same reasons, have
something spur them into action - you can always have their evil archenemy
Doug the Destroyer (or whatever) want retribution for something he has a
vague recollection of being told by some guy while half-drunk in a bar
somewhere.
Kidnap friends and family, one of the characters, or something - the more
cliched the better (he's kidnapped my girlfriend and wants 10,000¥ for her
release - he'll be waiting at the top of the watertower on old Kessledine
road?) and then have them figure out how to get through the situation. You
can even use this as an opportunity to fleece the characters of their
hard-earned nuyen/equipment, making it a _lot_ harder to say no to the
Johnson next time he offers them a run.

> hmmm...interesting premise.
> Ha! No, they'll wait for more info to fall in their laps while
>secretly having orgies.

Yeah, well I know the people you're talking about, and I figure we'll put
a stop to that in my campaign with a nasty case of some sexually
transmitted disease or other. Oops... Hope they're not reading this... \=
=)

> Checkin' it out now. thanks for the suggestions though. (I figured
>I'd keep this thread public for a little while yet. i've gotten some
>great suggestions on it so far)

Well, there isn't much there, but it's a start and I suppose it's
interesting enough if you're completely bored. =)

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

From:	Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things! -Reply
Date:	Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:57:32 -0400

Message no. 11 >I've had players actually get offended that the J didn't spill
>more info. Or that he didn't want to pay a group of starting
>runners
>100k for a snatch and grab. (I was thinking around 20k and let
>them have
>50k cause they had a good reference, the Don Enzo Cappinetti,
>Don of Seattle)

Hey that was last week!!! And the good reference was Shaft. :)

From:	bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things! -Reply
Date:	Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:33:00 -0400

Message no. 12 > >I've had players actually get offended that the J didn't spill
> >more info. Or that he didn't want to pay a group of starting
> >runners
> >100k for a snatch and grab. (I was thinking around 20k and let
> >them have
> >50k cause they had a good reference, the Don Enzo Cappinetti,
> >Don of Seattle)
>
> Hey that was last week!!! And the good reference was Shaft. :)
>
Damn I forgot i still had a player on the list. :)

And don't tell me who my Johnson got the referral
from..... :>

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:37:54 EDT

Message no. 13 In a message dated 9/24/98 3:14:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dreaodare@*******.COM writes:

> Does anyone else have players that just will NOT accept that a Johnson
> doesn't have all the information about everything? I mean, this is the
> guy that just pays you and tells you that there IS a run. It's supposed
> to be up to you to figure out the hows and whys.

Yep, sometimes my newbie group wants to turn down the run unless they are paid
100K each or they demand unrealistic bonuses. As a GM I remind them that so
far they do not have reputations as a good team and that they may not get
another run for a while.

Usually they tend to take the run and are more willing to do work that they
should be doing such as legwork.

> But why do they start asking the Johnson questions? I mean, this is
> where stuff like your contacts comes into play, right? You have a
> decker, use 'em. There's plenty of info available right on the street,
> but they assume the Johnson, because s/he's basically the voice of the
> GM, knows all.

The players think that the Johnsons know everything about the run and that the
team should be given all the information. If it was that simple, why hire
shadowrunjers in the first place? (Other than thier combat skills)

> I once had to have one say "Now just how the hell am I supposed to
> know that?!" when they started asking specifics about the security.

You could have the Johnson get up and leave at that point, saying something
like "I guess I have the wrong team, deal is off"

> It's one reason I don't use any PCs of mine as NPCs. You get too
> tempted to help them along to much and baby them. Maybe they've just
> gotten complacent?

I have a GM PC in my group, and he sometimes gives them bad advice as well as
incorrect information. Course so do the NPCs, you know how rumors are <g>

> Anyway, I was just wonderinf if anyone else had this prob. And what
> they do about it. I'll hold off any talk about orgies and such.

One of the problems I am running into now is that the newbie team is refusing
to have a leader for negotions and they all have to meet with Mr. Johnson and
argue IN FRONT of him or her!

I am going to correct this by having a Mr. Johnson who will only speak with
one team member, the leader, in private. If they refuse well Mr. J will say
something about finding another more organized team that trusts their
leadership :)

-Bandit

From:	Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:54:43 -0400

Message no. 14 >Damn I forgot i still had a player on the list. :)

> And don't tell me who my Johnson got the referral
>from..... :>

Hehe...yeah right you forgot. Just because MC23 has gone
nomail, some of us are still here sufferering day in and
day out. I'll leave you and your Johnson out of this discussion. :)

From:	Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Players say the darnedest things!
Date:	Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:59:59 -0400

Message no. 15 Drea O'Dare wrote:

> Does anyone else have players that just will NOT accept that a Johnson
> doesn't have all the information about everything? I mean, this is the
> guy that just pays you and tells you that there IS a run. It's supposed
> to be up to you to figure out the hows and whys.
> You're in the beginning of the run, the players have just met the
> Johnson, took the price, and are now thinking about what they've gotten
> themselves into. Admittedly, my players are paranoid because, let's
> face it. a Blade Runner game is bound to bite them in the butt.
> But why do they start asking the Johnson questions? I mean, this is
> where stuff like your contacts comes into play, right? You have a
> decker, use 'em. There's plenty of info available right on the street,
> but they assume the Johnson, because s/he's basically the voice of the
> GM, knows all.

HAHAA... a good dose of paranoia is always good in a Shadowrun game.. if
your players are always looking over their shoulders you're running a good
game. :) I guess my players somewhat have that problem.. except they want
to ask all the questions AFTER they've taken the job and the prepayment...
and because at times not all of the players (or even just one or two) are
usually present at the negotiations I've heard countless times "Did you ask
him about magical security?" "Do you know who he even works for?" ahahah..
I
like my Mr. J's to tell the minimum amount of information needed to do the
run and players have to ask him about it.. it's more often than not led to
some amusing (from the GMs perspective) inter-player conversations :)

--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Sysop LiMBo BBS 519 - 948 - 7400 TAG 2.7d
ICQ: 4050857

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