Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Drea O'Dare <dreaodare@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Players vs GMs (Bad, or no?)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:26:22 PDT
>I have now been approached by my players several times requesting that
>I ease up on them and "just let them kill things." I ask the list, I
>am being a bad GM?

After reading your entire post, I have come to this conclusion. You
run a group of Power Gamers<tm>. You know, the guys that want bigger
better faster not to WIN, per se, but just so they can trounce anything
in their way.
Not the same as a munchkin, really, but damn close. I myself am a
power gamer cause I just plain like cool stuff. One of my characters
owns a PAC. Does she walk with it downtown though? Hell no. Does she
walk with it uptown either? Nope. That's insane. Not only are the
cops gona come after you, but so will everyone else what wants a PAC.
As to Lone Star, this is the same thing I was talking about before.
Your players don't seem to realize that cops don't like people that walk
around looking like they're about to shoot someone else, or people who
are insolent towards them. Sure, your team might be able to take out
this bunch, but hope beyond hope that no one finds out that they did it,
or the cops WILL be on their collective butts, heavy firepower brought
to bare. If they're unwilling to realize this sort of thing, dismiss
them to playing AD&D (which I'm sure they'll love, even if they've never
played it before) and join the online gaming movement. Or find another
group. These guys and gals seem like nothing but trouble.
Or, throw 'em totally to the wolves. If they have internet access,
encourage them to run in one of Jett's games, or Pan's. Or mine.
Though I doubt they'll make it into any of them.
As for the sniper rifle - they're darn hard to get a hold of in any
time, much less one where such weapons are scarce, like Shadowrun. Just
because he was in the military, that doesn't mean he's got ready access
to one - it doesn't even mean that he knows how to use one of the
things. Unless he's an assassian (not something that lends itself
readily towards the group mentality of an SR team) the rifle isn't
really something that will be of much use in a firefight. They're good
for ambushes, that's about it.
Anyway, that's my advice, take it or leave it. :)

Pink`

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: Rook <rook@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Players vs GMs (Bad, or no?)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:21:28 -0700
> >I have now been approached by my players several times requesting that
> >I ease up on them and "just let them kill things." I ask the list, I
> >am being a bad GM?
>
> After reading your entire post, I have come to this conclusion. You
> run a group of Power Gamers<tm>. You know, the guys that want bigger
> better faster not to WIN, per se, but just so they can trounce anything
> in their way.

I think the biggest problem is incompatable styles. Though I will say
that I think things work best when the world is neither overly hostile
and impossible nor a simple walk in the park. Balance works best.

> As for the sniper rifle - they're darn hard to get a hold of in any
> time, much less one where such weapons are scarce, like Shadowrun. Just
> because he was in the military, that doesn't mean he's got ready access
> to one

This is true. I'm a veteran myself and they sure didn't give me a box
of weapons when I got out. All I got was a letter saying 'honorable', a
plane ticket back to the USA, and some nifty education and home loan
benifits. Plus something to add to my resume. :)
If I was supposed to get a free sniper rifle at the door what form was
that on? Maybe I'll go down to the VA and see if they've got any extras
they could hand out to those of us who didn't get ours when we got out.
A free Humvee might be nice too while I'm at it. :)
On second thought; maybe your player's just got a warped sense of
reality. Or is some young kid that doesn't know better. Man I miss the
days when I thought all GI's drove tanks and had bazookas. There's
nothing like being 7. :)

> - it doesn't even mean that he knows how to use one of the
> things. Unless he's an assassian (not something that lends itself
> readily towards the group mentality of an SR team) the rifle isn't
> really something that will be of much use in a firefight. They're good
> for ambushes, that's about it.

This is also true. For my 'honorable assassin' character I was looking
them over this morning. They're only good if you are far away and get
the complete drop on your target. I ended up taking just a pistol and
lots of skill.
As for group usable assassins; look at the anime "Lupin III". The 'PCs'
are an international thief, a Japanese assassin who was supposed to kill
him but instead hangs out and saves his butt left and right, and a drunk
American ex-mobster that work's as his sidekick. Every now and then he
has a catburglar/femm fatale girlfriend show up.
For a team of 'nogoods' they run around saving the world every episode.

--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â WebRPG TownHall Magistrate
townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ Nothing vast enters the life of mortals without a curse.
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site
Message no. 3
From: Drea O'Dare <dreaodare@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Players vs GMs (Bad, or no?)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:16:00 PDT
will say
>that I think things work best when the world is neither overly hostile
>and impossible nor a simple walk in the park. Balance works best.

Styles are all well and good, but I see an almost distrubing trend
among players like this. It's fun sometimes to play a game where you
just do a lot of hack and slash, and get away with it all. But that's
not the way that SR is set up, really. Least, to my mind.

>> As for the sniper rifle - they're darn hard to get a hold of in any
>> time, much less one where such weapons are scarce, like Shadowrun.
Just
>> because he was in the military, that doesn't mean he's got ready
access
>> to one
> This is true. I'm a veteran myself and they sure didn't give me
a box
>of weapons when I got out.

Exactly. It just don't happen.

> As for group usable assassins; look at the anime "Lupin III".
The 'PCs'
>are an international thief, a Japanese assassin who was supposed to
kill
>him but instead hangs out and saves his butt left and right, and a
drunk
>American ex-mobster that work's as his sidekick. Every now and then he
>has a catburglar/femm fatale girlfriend show up.
> For a team of 'nogoods' they run around saving the world every
episode.

Yep, saw it. In fact, in a lot of anime you get much the same stuff -
an ineffective police force is present, so you have to kind of take
matters into your own hands. Of course, then you have stuff like
Patlabor - which shows that yeah, you might be big and bad, but the
police are going to get bigger and badder on your butt post haste.
Check out Ghost in the Shell for this type of thing as well.

Pink`

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 4
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Players vs GMs (Bad, or no?)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:23:32 -0500
On Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:16:00 PDT "Drea O'Dare" <dreaodare@*******.COM>
writes:
<SNIP>
>>> As for the sniper rifle - they're darn hard to get a hold of in any
>>> time, much less one where such weapons are scarce, like Shadowrun.
Just
>>> because he was in the military, that doesn't mean he's got ready
access
>>> to one

>> This is true. I'm a veteran myself and they sure didn't give me
a box
>>of weapons when I got out.

> Exactly. It just don't happen.

I had a char who was in the military (Special Ops) and had a sniper
rifle, not because she was in the military but instead because she got it
through connections she made in the military. (And thus got it after her
military service but before game play.) Only problem was I forgot to
check the availability on a Sniper Rifle ... 12 ... DOH! Now I have to
scrounge up 4 points for the appropriate SOTA edge or ditch the rifle ...
:/ BTW, if you want a good reason to start with a sniper rifle, forget
military history, have organized crime connections. Of course, that may
be too much of a price to pay for a measley sniper rifle .... <eGMg>

>> As for group usable assassins; look at the anime "Lupin III".
The 'PCs'
>>are an international thief, a Japanese assassin who was supposed to
kill
>>him but instead hangs out and saves his butt left and right, and a
drunk
>>American ex-mobster that work's as his sidekick. Every now and then he
>>has a catburglar/femm fatale girlfriend show up.
>> For a team of 'nogoods' they run around saving the world every
episode.

> Yep, saw it. In fact, in a lot of anime you get much the same stuff -
>an ineffective police force is present, so you have to kind of take
>matters into your own hands. Of course, then you have stuff like
>Patlabor - which shows that yeah, you might be big and bad, but the
>police are going to get bigger and badder on your butt post haste.
>Check out Ghost in the Shell for this type of thing as well.

Actually, I thought BGC and AD Police Files were also good. In BGC
(Bubble Gum Crisis and Bubble Gum Crash), the AD Police weren't
ineffectual but they were so effective that they took the spotlight away
from the hero(ines :) of the story, the Knight Sabers. In AD Police, the
AD Police was portrayed as quite capable (but didn't deal with anything
like what was in BGC). However, the regular police was portrayed as
rather inadequate in both flicks (Though, all things considered, this is
quite logical.).

Any of the anime movies where the police are the stars, they are
portryaed as capable, generally with one or two or sometimes a handful of
individuals that are portrayed in heroic proportions (For example. Leon
from BGC and AD Police Files). This was the case in Burn-Up (I think ...
the tape had a preview called Burn-Up W or it could be the other way
around ...), and Mad Bull (I think that's the name ... I haven't seen it,
only the preview.). I can't think of any others ...

Gotta bring this on topic ... Ah! If you want to get your players to
stop blowing up cops (or stop trying/wanting to blow up cops):
1) Watch some movies like the above with them. If they ask "Why won't
you let us do that?" (Run rampant like the cops do), reply, "What? Get
shot up by the cops? Sure, I'll work it into the next run since you
asked."

2) Use relatives of the PCs and their Contacts. Have a PC's
brother/sister get engaged to a LS Cop (and have the PC meet her/him) and
then while on a run, the spouse is one of the cops responding to the
<insert what the PCs are doing> call. Or, have their fixer, for example,
gushing before a run about his/her new
girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife/other and then after a run where the
PCs kill some cops, have the fixer drop out of the biz because "the love
of his/her life" was slain by a group of shadowrunners (Or this could be
a great place to pick up an enemy!) ...

3) If they search a dead cop's body for keys, access cards, etc, let them
find his wallet with pictures of his wife and kids (or husband and kids).

Just some thoughts :)

Btw, a friend of mine wanted to kill LS Cops as they came on the scene
because "they were corp guys and all corps are evil." (not exact phrasing
but similar intent :) I sat him down and pointed out that HE was a
security guard and he's does not neccisarily share the views and stuff of
his empolyer or his employer's employer. He's just some guy paying his
way through college.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 5
From: Rook <rook@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Players vs GMs (Bad, or no?)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:11:38 -0700
> I had a char who was in the military (Special Ops) and had a sniper
> rifle, not because she was in the military but instead because she got it
> through connections she made in the military. (And thus got it after her
> military service but before game play.) Only problem was I forgot to

There's a section of the military known as 'supply'. Generally to have
such a contact youy'd have to have worked there. Special Ops wouldn't
help here. However having a contact in supply would let you do it via
the friend of a friend situation.

> 2) Use relatives of the PCs and their Contacts. Have a PC's
> brother/sister get engaged to a LS Cop (and have the PC meet her/him) and
> then while on a run, the spouse is one of the cops responding to the
> <insert what the PCs are doing> call. Or, have their fixer, for example,
> gushing before a run about his/her new
> girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife/other and then after a run where the
> PCs kill some cops, have the fixer drop out of the biz because "the love
> of his/her life" was slain by a group of shadowrunners (Or this could be
> a great place to pick up an enemy!) ...

Or:

Matt looked over his day planner as he sipped his morning coffee. Today
was the meet with the new J. over the upcoming Aztlan Inc. hit. Joe and
Carmella should be returning from their recon of the place any minute in
fact.
The phone rang.

"Mathew!!! Matheew Bartholemu Johnson! This is your mother you low life
ingrate! Where have you been; I haven't gotten a call or a letter in 6
months. Your father's worried about you! Why can't you be more like your
brother instead of hanging out with those elf punk friends of yours."
"You know he just graduated from the academy. Got a job out there in
Seattle working for Aztlan security. You should really give him a call.
You two used to be so close before you ran off with that gang. I gave
him your number."

More babbling back and forth. As Matt hung up the phone Kenjiro walked
in with new smartlinked Uzi. "man we really gonna grease us some pig's
today eh matt?" he made motions as if firing off his gun. "I love to see
the look on their faces when I give it to them. better than sex man. I
tell you. Ain't nothing like doing in a pig."
Kenjiro failed to notice Matt's worried look as Joe and Carmella walked
in. Joe's rifle showed faint burn marks at the muzzle.
"Hey Matt; we think we can get in good, thoug security's gonna be a
little tight for the next few days. You know one of those pig's looked
kinda like you." Joe patted his rifle. "After I shot off his helmet that
is..."

(Ok, I'm not a professional writer... :) )

--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â WebRPG TownHall Magistrate
townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ Nothing vast enters the life of mortals without a curse.
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Players vs GMs (Bad, or no?), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!