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Message no. 1
From: "Lindblom Fredrik, Training" <fredrik.lindblom@*******.TELIA.SE>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:17:00 PDT
Sorry if I can't help you, but I haven't used bugs to any greater extent in
my campaigns.

An idea (wierd): What about a bio-smoke grenade spreading, in addition to
normal smoke, some kind of living particles? Barcteria or Algae, perhaps.
Living things are opaque in astral space as we all know... Could be worth
some research... :-)


MxM
Message no. 2
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:13:19 GMT
> From: "Lindblom Fredrik, Training"
<fredrik.lindblom@*******.TELIA.SE>

> Sorry if I can't help you, but I haven't used bugs to any greater extent in
> my campaigns.
>
> An idea (wierd): What about a bio-smoke grenade spreading, in addition to
> normal smoke, some kind of living particles? Barcteria or Algae, perhaps.
> Living things are opaque in astral space as we all know... Could be worth
> some research... :-)
>
>
> MxM
>
1) smoke blocks LOS on the physical, same as a wall does so therefore
it would block LOS on the astral as astral LOS is drawn the same as
the physical world. (astral percet is however a supurb solution to
minimal light situations as auras do 'glow').

2) note that flesh from bugs typically have reduced senses sight
anyway, though i have let folks use flash packs on them (one PC
dropped a flash pack about 3 initatives before 3 bugs ripped him limb
from limb and lived as a result).

3) bacteria that block only astral LOS is a very nasty idea against
something with automatic dual nature. It sees loads of bacteria as it
must look in the astral while the Merc with the gun hoses everything
because he cannot and can therefore see the poor bug no problems.
Solution only rule blocking astral LOS if something is thick enough
to block physical plane on you will have folks filling hives full of
'astral only' smoke and killing everything as they get normal target
numbers and the bugs +8's for blinded! (or maybe only +4 as they can
do quite well by sound alone and therefore would not suffer as badly
as humans for whom only sight is accurate enough for targeting when
unable to see - still very 1 sided)

Mark
Message no. 3
From: Niels Broberg <ncb@***.KU.DK>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:09:49 +0100
On Thu 20 jul Lindblom Fredrik wrote:

>An idea (wierd): What about a bio-smoke grenade spreading, in addition to
>normal smoke, some kind of living particles? Barcteria or Algae, perhaps.
>Living things are opaque in astral space as we all know... Could be worth
>some research... :-)
>
>
>MxM
>
Someone already did that, it's in the novel "Lone Wolf" by the late Nigel
Findly
They use it in motar grenades in an attack of a site to block both the
astral and physical(radar) sight by mixing some sort of chaff with some
funny bacteria or was it algea ? (I haven't got the book with me)


Just my 2 oere

Niels Broberg
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:15:19 +0200
>An idea (wierd): What about a bio-smoke grenade spreading, in addition to
>normal smoke, some kind of living particles? Barcteria or Algae, perhaps.
>Living things are opaque in astral space as we all know... Could be worth
>some research... :-)

A fab idea! *grin*


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's tv-speak, Andycam!
GC3.0: GS/AT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y
PGP- t(+) 5 X R+++>? tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial
Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 5
From: Ian Smith <KildTheCat@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:45:35 -0400
>An idea (wierd): What about a bio-smoke grenade spreading, in >addition to
>normal smoke, some kind of living particles? Barcteria or >Algae, perhaps.
>Living things are opaque in astral space as we all know... >Could be worth
>some research... :-)

Non-living things are also opaque on the astral, junst not solid. Read:
smoke is also smoke on the astral, and has all the same visual modifiers.
Heh heh heh.
What you're talking about would be smoke that would 'trap' an astral body.
If it was alive, he couldn't move through it. They got stuff like this in
the CorpSec book, but it is muy expensive ( both the book and the gas :D ).
Message no. 6
From: Charles KcKenzie <kilroy@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:10:07 -0500
> What you're talking about would be smoke that would 'trap' an astral body.
> If it was alive, he couldn't move through it. They got stuff like this in
> the CorpSec book, but it is muy expensive ( both the book and the gas :D ).
>
There are a lot of ways to get past this stuff...

1. Have a nice friendly elemental sidekick manifest and blow/burn/etc.
it out of the way.
2. Have something set up to deliver a Deadly Stun attack to your body if
you're not back to shut it off in 5 hours...pulling you back into your body.
3. Use a mind control spell on the wagemage who shows up to interogate
you...

(I have more but I forgot em...)

Kilroy
Message no. 7
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:34:51 +1000
Charles KcKenzie writes:

> 2. Have something set up to deliver a Deadly Stun attack to your body if
> you're not back to shut it off in 5 hours...pulling you back into your body.

Quite a few people I know have this idea, but I've never seen the rule that
says it is the case. Could you perhaps point me to a reference?

BTW, it's GREAT to be back! (Gurth must be edging ahead in the numbers...
<grin>)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 8
From: Charles KcKenzie <kilroy@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:19:08 -0500
> Charles KcKenzie writes:
>
> > 2. Have something set up to deliver a Deadly Stun attack to your body if
> > you're not back to shut it off in 5 hours...pulling you back into your body.
>
> Quite a few people I know have this idea, but I've never seen the rule that
> says it is the case. Could you perhaps point me to a reference?

It meantions it in Harlequin. I don't have the book here, but it says
(in the torture part) that a mage who goes astral to escape torture will
be knocked out cold and snapped back into his body.
(I was wondering if stun damage had the same effect on an astral mage as
physical, ie., shock etc.)
(I was also wondering why damage from astral spellcasting, always
physical, didn't cause shock and death the way normal physical damage does.)

Kilroy
aka
Chuck McKenzie (Not KcKenzie...the server people screwed up...)
Message no. 9
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:11:00 +1000
Charles KcKenzie writes:

> It meantions it in Harlequin. I don't have the book here, but it says
> (in the torture part) that a mage who goes astral to escape torture will
> be knocked out cold and snapped back into his body.

Aha, so that's where it comes from. Thanks for then reference. I wonder
exactly what it means when it says "snapped back to his body". Would the
magician be literally dragged back through astral space to the location of
his body, or would he be magically and instantly returned? (Important
distinction when considering escaping from FAB containment zones.)

> (I was wondering if stun damage had the same effect on an astral mage as
> physical, ie., shock etc.)

I'd imagine so. Stun damage is a wound too (although some Stun damage can be
considered as fatigue, bruising from blows comes under the umbrella of Stun
damage too). But remember that the rules say "Almost any wound to the
comatose form...". Remember the "Almost".

> (I was also wondering why damage from astral spellcasting, always
> physical, didn't cause shock and death the way normal physical damage does.)

Probably because it originates from an astral source. Like a whack received
from an astral opponent, it won't cause the comatose body to curl up and die
instantly, but repercussion will still cause it to be hurt exactly the same
as the astral form was.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 10
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:31:00 GMT
> From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>

> Charles KcKenzie writes:
>
> > It meantions it in Harlequin. I don't have the book here, but it says
> > (in the torture part) that a mage who goes astral to escape torture will
> > be knocked out cold and snapped back into his body.
>
> Aha, so that's where it comes from. Thanks for then reference. I wonder
> exactly what it means when it says "snapped back to his body". Would the
> magician be literally dragged back through astral space to the location of
> his body, or would he be magically and instantly returned? (Important
> distinction when considering escaping from FAB containment zones.)
>
Another FASA sort of left. It implies if i remember the book
correctly that if you fall unconcious you are instantly taken back to
your body. Considering that astral movement has finite spedd i assume
this is effectively a 'teleport'. It is then very handy for escaping
FAB, if all else fails, stunbolt yourself and don't resist, you end
you unconcious in the riggers car (safest place to project from
usually because of fast getaways) the soul monitoring you notes you
fell asleep, assumes the worst and scrubs. LAY RUBBER, we are
compromised, results, bad headache and alerted opposition but you are
all still alive and safe.

> > (I was wondering if stun damage had the same effect on an astral
mage as > > physical, ie., shock etc.)
>
> I'd imagine so. Stun damage is a wound too (although some Stun damage can be
> considered as fatigue, bruising from blows comes under the umbrella of Stun
> damage too). But remember that the rules say "Almost any wound to the
> comatose form...". Remember the "Almost".
>
It states that sentient astral entites may inflict either stun or
physical damage with astral attacks, thier choice.

> > (I was also wondering why damage from astral spellcasting, always
> > physical, didn't cause shock and death the way normal physical damage does.)
>
> Probably because it originates from an astral source. Like a whack received
> from an astral opponent, it won't cause the comatose body to curl up and die
> instantly, but repercussion will still cause it to be hurt exactly the same
> as the astral form was.
>
a deadly wound from any source starts you dying, even if drain,
though another freindly magician and a treat spell is usually an
effective cure. (well by the rules, i usually don't allow magical
healing of D wounds, only stabilisation or else 'treat mage' target
number 2 gives them a grossly unfair advantage over Samurai etc on
healing.

> --
> Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
>
Mark
Message no. 11
From: "Lindblom Fredrik, Training" <fredrik.lindblom@*******.TELIA.SE>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:49:00 PDT
>(well by the rules, i usually don't allow magical
>healing of D wounds, only stabilisation or else 'treat mage' target
>number 2 gives them a grossly unfair advantage over Samurai etc on
>healing.

Why not? If not for the reason of being easier to heal, why would a samurai
think twice about burning 100% of his essence? (yes this is munchy, and I
know there are roleplaying aspects to having essence 0)

Funny thing is: I have 7 players in my campaign. The last team was retired
in the beginning of this summer, because they weren't fun to play with
anymore. They had an average essence of 1.1 including the single mage. Then
everyone created new characters, and even with my restrictions on starting
equipment they could easily have used up all their essence on cyberware.
Instead we got an average essence of 5.8... Now, this means the group is
low-powered and not as invulnerable as the last one, but it's a damn lot
easier to heal. The guy with most cyber has a SmartlinkII and cybereyes, and
why? Because he wanted to be easier to heal. When the players realize that,
I think it's fair to let them heal even deadly wounds. But then again, your
players might be different. After all it IS your game.:)

Of course I had to drop the threat level in this new campaign since the new
characters had more personality than combat abilities, but that doesn't mean
the game cannot be fun. It's all a matter of how you want to play. The
characters include a refugee British nobleman and a burned-out ork sorcerer
that picks his nose with a crowbar. I think that is more fun than "the
godzillas against the helpless victims". But I'm rambling again. This is off
subject. Hope you don't see this as a flame or something. I just feel the
need to writewritewrite today. Dunno why. Gonna have to try and stop myself.
Now. (smack crash wooosh bang!) There. I think it worked.


'nuff


MxM
Message no. 12
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:39:22 GMT
"Lindblom Fredrik, Training" writes

> >(well by the rules, i usually don't allow magical
> >healing of D wounds, only stabilisation or else 'treat mage' target
> >number 2 gives them a grossly unfair advantage over Samurai etc on
> >healing.
>
> Why not? If not for the reason of being easier to heal, why would a samurai
> think twice about burning 100% of his essence? (yes this is munchy, and I
> know there are roleplaying aspects to having essence 0)
>
healing from 9 boxes fine, i may point out that on 9 boxes a single
success on first aid with a medkit will drop that sam to 3 boxes
(serious all the way to moderate) the 'treat deadly' is unfair only
once you note this as medkits cut off at deadly damage.
It is still well worth keeping essence high for healing purposes as
the vasy majority of wounds taken by PC's are either moderate or
serious.

> Funny thing is: I have 7 players in my campaign. The last team was retired
> in the beginning of this summer, because they weren't fun to play with
> anymore. They had an average essence of 1.1 including the single mage. Then
> everyone created new characters, and even with my restrictions on starting
> equipment they could easily have used up all their essence on cyberware.
> Instead we got an average essence of 5.8... Now, this means the group is
> low-powered and not as invulnerable as the last one, but it's a damn lot
> easier to heal. The guy with most cyber has a SmartlinkII and cybereyes, and
> why? Because he wanted to be easier to heal. When the players realize that,
> I think it's fair to let them heal even deadly wounds. But then again, your
> players might be different. After all it IS your game.:)
>
That sounds like a nice change of pace. well done. I have basically
issued a 'continuous campain limited' to the experienced PC's as some
will pass 200 Karma after HB, fine i will run adventures at that but
trying to keep players going every week for long would be tricky.

> Of course I had to drop the threat level in this new campaign since the new
> characters had more personality than combat abilities, but that doesn't mean
> the game cannot be fun.
It sound very good actually, i am trying to get enough support to run
SR sometime with some serious limits on kit (ie no wired, locked +3D6
etc) but am not getting very far as yet.

> It's all a matter of how you want to play. The
> characters include a refugee British nobleman and a burned-out ork sorcerer
> that picks his nose with a crowbar. I think that is more fun than "the
> godzillas against the helpless victims". But I'm rambling again. This is off
> subject. Hope you don't see this as a flame or something.
no

> I just feel the
> need to writewritewrite today.
fine

> Dunno why. Gonna have to try and stop myself.
> Now. (smack crash wooosh bang!) There. I think it worked.
>
>
> 'nuff
>
>
> MxM
>

Mark
Message no. 13
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Playing Smoke and Mirrors with Insec
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 21:50:32 +0300
On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Lindblom Fredrik, Training wrote:

> >(well by the rules, i usually don't allow magical
> >healing of D wounds, only stabilisation or else 'treat mage' target
> >number 2 gives them a grossly unfair advantage over Samurai etc on
> >healing.
>
> Why not? If not for the reason of being easier to heal, why would a samurai
> think twice about burning 100% of his essence? (yes this is munchy, and I
> know there are roleplaying aspects to having essence 0)
>
> Funny thing is: I have 7 players in my campaign. The last team was retired
> in the beginning of this summer, because they weren't fun to play with
> anymore. They had an average essence of 1.1 including the single mage. Then
> everyone created new characters, and even with my restrictions on starting
> equipment they could easily have used up all their essence on cyberware.
> Instead we got an average essence of 5.8... Now, this means the group is
> low-powered and not as invulnerable as the last one, but it's a damn lot
> easier to heal. The guy with most cyber has a SmartlinkII and cybereyes, and
> why? Because he wanted to be easier to heal. When the players realize that,
> I think it's fair to let them heal even deadly wounds. But then again, your
> players might be different. After all it IS your game.:)
maybe it is a good idea to use a treat spell but with the restriction
that this will be use against voluntary targets I think this goes down the
drain level by one as it is written in grimoire so a heal deadly wounds
would have a drain f/2 S rather than f/2 D>so a mage can put all his pool
in succesees test rather than in drain resistance one

> Of course I had to drop the threat level in this new campaign since the new
> characters had more personality than combat abilities, but that doesn't mean
> the game cannot be fun. It's all a matter of how you want to play. The
> characters include a refugee British nobleman and a burned-out ork sorcerer
> that picks his nose with a crowbar. I think that is more fun than "the
> godzillas against the helpless victims". But I'm rambling again. This is off
> subject. Hope you don't see this as a flame or something. I just feel the
> need to writewritewrite today. Dunno why. Gonna have to try and stop myself.
> Now. (smack crash wooosh bang!) There. I think it worked.
>
>
> 'nuff
>
>
> MxM

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