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Message no. 1
From: Jeff McRae <Lucifer7X@***.COM>
Subject: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:19:22 -0500
OK.......Here it is.
I don't usually participate in the discussions, but the one I did, I got
flamed for. Can we please stop talking about Munchkins?? It's getting quite
annoying.
I have a question. When a character has both an internal smart-gun link,
and a gun with a buit-in smart link, what do the players eyes show?? I've
been told that cross hairs show where the guns pointing, I've also been told
that there are flashing cross hair where ever the player looks, and that they
become solid cross hairs when the gun is pointing in the right direction.
Which (if any) is it?? I'm asking because I've created an NPC to harrass my
players, and I was gonna rig him up so that the gun never fired until the
cross hair were on an enemy. is this possible?? thank you.

Oh yeah, does anyone play Magic: the Gathering?? E-mail me personaly at
lucifer7x@***.com
Message no. 2
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 18:26:29 +0100
> I have a question. When a character has both an internal smart-gun link,
> and a gun with a buit-in smart link, what do the players eyes show?? I've
> been told that cross hairs show where the guns pointing, I've also been told
> that there are flashing cross hair where ever the player looks, and that they
> become solid cross hairs when the gun is pointing in the right direction.

In nights Pawn Tom Down describes is as a small red dot moving in the
field of vision of the guy holding the gun (he is the only one who can
see it). Thats all, no crosshairs - no frills :)

> Which (if any) is it?? I'm asking because I've created an NPC to harrass my
> players, and I was gonna rig him up so that the gun never fired until the
> cross hair were on an enemy. is this possible?? thank you.

The Tir NaN Og corps have got a gun that works like this, but it would
be considered munchkinous (here we go again :) to unleash it upon your
players/let them have it.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 3
From: Blade Hunter <rjc5646@*****.NJIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 13:52:46 -0500
On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, John Fikouras wrote:

> > Which (if any) is it?? I'm asking because I've created an NPC to harrass my
> > players, and I was gonna rig him up so that the gun never fired until the
> > cross hair were on an enemy. is this possible?? thank you.
>
> The Tir NaN Og corps have got a gun that works like this, but it would
> be considered munchkinous (here we go again :) to unleash it upon your
> players/let them have it.

The Tir NaN Og morph sniper rifle is quite more complex than that! (and
a real essence muncher to boot!) Check out the back pages of Tir NaN Og
source again and note the anti-'munchkin-aquisition device. (Getting the
device out is sure to mess the rifle though.)

Note they didn't give any more rules on this rifle other than damage code
and essence loss for special smartlink. Unless somebody found something
augmenting the Tir NaN Og source, I figure it's all dependent on
armor/barrier and whether or not the sniper can actually flub that shot
(ie: not a chance).
Message no. 4
From: Jason Ustica <usticaj@**.ERAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 14:08:17 -0700
On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, Jeff McRae wrote:

> I have a question. When a character has both an internal smart-gun link,
> and a gun with a buit-in smart link, what do the players eyes show??

Well from how I understand it, wherever your weapon is projected to hit,
a small dot is projected upon the retina, there by superimposing the
image to your vision. I think a large crosshair would be much too
distracting. I'm not sure whether the dot is where you barrel is pointing
or if it has other ballistic factors computed in as well.

> Oh yeah, does anyone play Magic: the Gathering?? E-mail me personaly at
> lucifer7x@***.com
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I believe Magic should be a controlled substance.

/------------------------\/-------------\
|Jason Ustica || Embry-Riddle|
|usticaj@**.erau.edu || Aeronautical|
|GO L.A. KINGS!! || University |
\------------------------/| Prescott,AZ |
\-------------/
Message no. 5
From: THEY ONLY WIN IF WE LET THEM <MKNABUSCH@****.ALBION.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 21:31:16 -0500
The smartgun works a lot like the morph rifle in the fact it will
not fire at friendly units. Unlike the morph, it will fire into
open air, and any target not designated friendly. The SR (2?) book
has a diagram of Ghost walking his fire though Sally without hitting
her (probably a good idea for Ghost). The idea being that the gun refuses
to funtion while aimed at a friendly target, if the dot is pointing at
an enemy or into open space, it will still fire.

Michael
aka Harlequin
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 16:12:49 +0930
Once upon a time, Jeff McRae wrote:
>
> OK.......Here it is.
> I have a question. When a character has both an internal smart-gun link,
> and a gun with a buit-in smart link, what do the players eyes show?? I've
> been told that cross hairs show where the guns pointing, I've also been told
> that there are flashing cross hair where ever the player looks, and that they
> become solid cross hairs when the gun is pointing in the right direction.
> Which (if any) is it?? I'm asking because I've created an NPC to harrass my
> players, and I was gonna rig him up so that the gun never fired until the
> cross hair were on an enemy. is this possible?? thank you.
>

From the description for the smartlink:
"Targetting information appears on the user's retina or cybereye as a small
dot or cross hairs that corresponds to the smartweapon's current line of
fire."

As for the last part: There is no way you can rig that up. Image
recognition techniques aren't that advanced. However... the gun shoots in
response to neural impulses. So, you can shoot at the speed of thought as
soon as you've identified the target as a enemy. It is this kind of trick
that allows you to walk fire around without hitting people.

> Oh yeah, does anyone play Magic: the Gathering??

Not anymore...

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 7
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 16:24:15 +0930
Once upon a time, THEY ONLY WIN IF WE LET THEM wrote:
>
> The smartgun works a lot like the morph rifle in the fact it will
> not fire at friendly units. Unlike the morph, it will fire into
> open air, and any target not designated friendly. The SR (2?) book
> has a diagram of Ghost walking his fire though Sally without hitting
> her (probably a good idea for Ghost). The idea being that the gun refuses
> to funtion while aimed at a friendly target, if the dot is pointing at
> an enemy or into open space, it will still fire.
>

No, no, no... it shoots when you want it to, but for the benefits of
full-auto, you have to keep up the stream of fire. If you want to avoid
shooting at a particular spot, you can get it to fire early or late, thus
missing it. It's got nothing to do with any sort of recognition, except for
the user's recognition that they don't want to shoot at that person.

If Ghost had wanted to avoid the two Mitshuma jerks as well, he could have
done the sweep of autofire and missed them. The key thing here is that it
allows you to vary the autofire slightly, but if you want the benefits (ie,
a lot of bullets shooting very fast), you have to keep it up.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 11:26:23 +0100
> I have a question. When a character has both an internal smart-gun link,
>and a gun with a buit-in smart link, what do the players eyes show?? I've
>been told that cross hairs show where the guns pointing, I've also been told
>that there are flashing cross hair where ever the player looks, and that they
>become solid cross hairs when the gun is pointing in the right direction.
>Which (if any) is it??

In the first-edition SR rules, a smartgun worked by projecting a flashing
crosshair at the point the character was looking, and once the gun was also
pointed there, the crosshairs became solid. In second edition, they changed
this to crosshairs centered on where your gun is pointing, like in RoboCop.
I don't think anyone would see the crosshairs, unless they are looking
straight into his eyes perhaps.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oooh! Smells like a job for ... TOILETMAN!!
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 9
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 15:27:07 EST
Robert writes:

> As for the last part: There is no way you can rig that up. Image
> recognition techniques aren't that advanced. However...

I beg to differ. Maybe UCAS tech is not that high, but in Tir Na nOg,
The Cu assassains use a special "morph-seeking" weapon. If you
have a specific target, then you can only hit him, even if he has a
twin. The accuracy rate is 99%. And yes Virginia, there is a TacCom
built into it.


------------------------------
||||| Today's Quote |||||
------------------------------
Society is like a slab of meat on a radiator.
If you do not use it, it rots.

Shadowdancer<BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:18:39 +0930
Shadowdancer wrote:
>
> Robert writes:
>
> > As for the last part: There is no way you can rig that up. Image
> > recognition techniques aren't that advanced. However...
>
> I beg to differ. Maybe UCAS tech is not that high, but in Tir Na nOg,
> The Cu assassains use a special "morph-seeking" weapon. If you
> have a specific target, then you can only hit him, even if he has a
> twin. The accuracy rate is 99%. And yes Virginia, there is a TacCom
> built into it.
>

And check out the essence cost. Also, the Tir "morph guns" use highly
specific cyberware which is yet to be duplicated.

Oh, if you REALLY want, you could shove a computer in your skull, add lots
of MP of storage for the image crunching algorithims, a link directly
between this computer and your smartgun, and what not. But why would you?

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
Message no. 11
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:32:17 +1100
Robert Watkins wrtes:

> Oh, if you REALLY want, you could shove a computer in your skull, add lots
> of MP of storage for the image crunching algorithims, a link directly
> between this computer and your smartgun, and what not. But why would you?

Sounds like a Tactical Computer to me. Most players I know want one for
their sammie.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 12
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:07:27 +0930
Damion Milliken wrote:
>
> Robert Watkins wrtes:
>
> > Oh, if you REALLY want, you could shove a computer in your skull, add lots
> > of MP of storage for the image crunching algorithims, a link directly
> > between this computer and your smartgun, and what not. But why would you?
>
> Sounds like a Tactical Computer to me. Most players I know want one for
> their sammie.
>

The Essence cost is ridiculous considering the relatively small benefits.
Gimme Wired 2 any day. Easier to get hold off, less illegal, and cheaper in
both Essence and cost.

If I _really_ wanted to do the "see that guy and shoot him" trick, I'd wire
up a computer to a building's security system (with Sentry guns, of
course), and do it that way. Of course, I'd be much more likely to just get
my Firearms skill up to the point where I can do it myself.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
Message no. 13
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:49:09 +1100
Robert Watkins writes:

> > Sounds like a Tactical Computer to me. Most players I know want one for
> > their sammie.
>
> The Essence cost is ridiculous considering the relatively small benefits.
> Gimme Wired 2 any day. Easier to get hold off, less illegal, and cheaper in
> both Essence and cost.

True, it is prohibitievely expensive, illegal and hard to get, but it has a
lot more potential than wired reflexes. Not to mention a lot more style.
There are other ways to make yourself faster (bioware, magic), and if you
have those as well, then you are much better off. One of my players has been
saving nuyen for well over half his career so as he can purchase a Tactical
computer. Sure, he's a slug at the moment (unless he can con the mage into
sustaining a + 3 Initiative Dice spell on him), but he's going for it. Next
on his shopping list is Synaptic Accelerators. [What he doesn't realise is
that he won't be bopping into the clinic and getting his Tac Computer like
he thinks he will be <evil GM grin>]. But after he's actually got the thing,
he'll have a superior character (stat wise), and by going through the
protracted process of saving moeny and getting the cyberware, he'll have a
much more fleshed out character too. Sure, he could've purchased wired
refleses 2 about 5 runs ago, but he didn't. Tactical Computers are a long
term solution, Wired Relfexes are more short term gain orientated (as in you
pay rather a lot of essence for something you can do with bioware just as
effectively - even though with more cost).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 14
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:36:31 +0930
Damion Milliken wrote:
>
> > > Sounds like a Tactical Computer to me. Most players I know want one for
> > > their sammie.
> >
> > The Essence cost is ridiculous considering the relatively small benefits.
> > Gimme Wired 2 any day. Easier to get hold off, less illegal, and cheaper in
> > both Essence and cost.
>
> True, it is prohibitievely expensive, illegal and hard to get, but it has a
> lot more potential than wired reflexes. Not to mention a lot more style.
> There are other ways to make yourself faster (bioware, magic), and if you
> have those as well, then you are much better off. One of my players has been
> saving nuyen for well over half his career so as he can purchase a Tactical
> computer. Sure, he's a slug at the moment (unless he can con the mage into
> sustaining a + 3 Initiative Dice spell on him), but he's going for it. Next
> on his shopping list is Synaptic Accelerators. [What he doesn't realise is
> that he won't be bopping into the clinic and getting his Tac Computer like
> he thinks he will be <evil GM grin>]. But after he's actually got the thing,
> he'll have a superior character (stat wise), and by going through the
> protracted process of saving moeny and getting the cyberware, he'll have a
> much more fleshed out character too. Sure, he could've purchased wired
> refleses 2 about 5 runs ago, but he didn't. Tactical Computers are a long
> term solution, Wired Relfexes are more short term gain orientated (as in you
> pay rather a lot of essence for something you can do with bioware just as
> effectively - even though with more cost).

*grin* sounds like what I tried for my Decker character. (Deckers are ideal
for this... gives them something to do in the meantime). Mind you, Synaptic
Accelerators are no match for the venerable Wired Reflexes. To quote the
Shadowtalk on it: First place in the subtlety department, but dead last in
performance (even behind Boosted reflexes).

However, the entire concept of the Tactical computer is a bit awkward. I'd
rather go for a computer _outside_ the skull (say, within the body armour),
communicating with your cybereyes via a data jack, maybe even a dedicated
one. Sure, it's got a chance of being damaged, but not much more than you
do.


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
Message no. 15
From: SilverFire <SSHERMAN@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 03:09:43 -0500
With regards to the tactical comp and sammies wanting to get a hold
of it, I found that a high combat pool and a high firearms skill with enhanced
articulation that you can get someone pretty good with your gun. Through in a
smartlink (I or II) and smartlinked gun (depending on the gun, of course) I
don't think that you need the TacComp, but that's my opinion. Each to his/her
own.

SilverFire

"Why is destiny always beckoning to every PUNK who comes along?"

Wolverine

"Scorpio Rising"

PS sorry 'bout the spelling, been along day...*sigh*
Message no. 16
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 18:18:15 +0930
IMHO, the best use for the Tac Comp is to be intergrated into the BattleTac
system from FoF. 100% accurate data for positions of units (taken from the
cyber eye and the range finder on the gun) would allow for soooooo much
fun.

Still doesn't need to be internal, though. Like I said before, I'd build it
into the battle armour.


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
Message no. 17
From: Jeff McRae <Lucifer7X@***.COM>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 07:12:06 -0500
Why would I?!?! To be the greatest maksman alive of course!!!!!
Message no. 18
From: Quicksilver <jhurley1@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: PLEASE read!!!!!
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:22:17 -30000
On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Robert Watkins wrote:

> Damion Milliken wrote:
> >
> > > The Essence cost is ridiculous considering the relatively small benefits.
> > > Gimme Wired 2 any day. Easier to get hold off, less illegal, and cheaper in
> > > both Essence and cost.

As a GM who runs a permanent NPC w/ a level 1 (Effective 5) system, I
must say, when I do bother to use it (it's a pain for me to keep track
of, and I don't really want the NPC dominating the combat) it is an
OK deal against anything less than hardened armor.
(4 skill+4 pool + Enhanced Art. + Custom gun + around 3 successes w/
the comp dice vs a 2 (SGII) + 2(called shot) + environmental
mods=around 7 successes.) However, having a higher skill is marginally
better than the TC, as you are ALWAYS guaranteed the skill dice, the
taccomp may not get a good lock. A firearms 6 or so beats out this
taccomp by one die on average. And remember, visibility mods count
double against the guy with the taccomp.....

> for this... gives them something to do in the meantime). Mind you, Synaptic
> Accelerators are no match for the venerable Wired Reflexes. To quote the
> Shadowtalk on it: First place in the subtlety department, but dead last in
> performance (even behind Boosted reflexes).

Which is why SynAcs are the most popular reflex enhancements in my game.
The PC's do a lot of travel by air......

>
> However, the entire concept of the Tactical computer is a bit awkward. I'd
> rather go for a computer _outside_ the skull (say, within the body armour),
> communicating with your cybereyes via a data jack, maybe even a dedicated
> one. Sure, it's got a chance of being damaged, but not much more than you
> do.

Potential......


Chavez:"I want to see his eyes when it happens."
Clark:"So use a good scope on the rifle."
Message no. 19
From: Mark McLaughlin <mmclaugh@*******.EENG.DCU.IE>
Subject: Please read!!
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:46:51 -0800
Due to something which I had little damn control over I lost 86 mail
this morning, the majority of which probably came from this SR list. If
anyone replied to any of my messages could they please email me (since
everyone else saw them already...) and tell me about it.

I know I`m asking a lot here... Thanks.

Mark McL
Message no. 20
From: Scott Taylor Spencer <sts100z@****.ODU.EDU>
Subject: please read
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:33:04 -0500
This is a test to see if my messages are getting through. Please respond.

Thanks,

Scott


"The sights on this gun must be off all I keep hitting are coffee
mugs." -John Cleese
Message no. 21
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: please read
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 17:02:04 -0500
At 01:33 PM 3/30/97 -0500, Scott Taylor Spencer wrote these timeless words:
>This is a test to see if my messages are getting through. Please respond.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
Well... I got it...:]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max
Message no. 22
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: please read
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:13:01 EST
On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:33:04 -0500 Scott Taylor Spencer
<sts100z@****.ODU.EDU> writes:
>This is a test to see if my messages are getting through. Please
>respond.
>

Nope. Nothing's coming through. I'm afraid you're messages are just
lost:) Just joking:) Came through fine over here.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 23
From: Amper <amper@****.DATANET.HU>
Subject: Re: please read
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:22:22 +0100
Scott Taylor Spencer wrote:
>
> This is a test to see if my messages are getting through. Please respond.

Hail, I see you. :)
--
,--\/----\/----\/----\/----\/-,
l / l
l AmpeR by Hungary /_ l
l Programmer & RPG player / l
l amper@****.datanet.hu / l
l \/ l
l_/\/\__/\/\__/\/\__/\/\__/\/\l
Message no. 24
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: please read
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:32:22 +1000
> This is a test to see if my messages are getting through. Please
respond.

Most say 'This is a test. Please don't respond'. I suppose it's always
good to be different though.

Anyway, I got it no probs.

Ray
Message no. 25
From: Walker of Shadows <OABBrother@***.COM>
Subject: Re: please read
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 12:51:49 -0500
It works fine.

Walker of Shadows

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about PLEASE read!!!!!, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!