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Message no. 1
From: Richard Gaywood <richard.gaywood@**************.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject: Pointless magic questions
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:05:31 +0000
Some really nit-picking magic questions came up tonight... Just thought
I'd share them with all and sundry ;)

(1) Can a magician summon a spirit in Astral Space?
(Alright, not quite so nit-picking. Still, although game balance says
no, why not? Particularly for shamans, as the section of Astral Space
is in the same domain as the piece of real space.)

(2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?
(I never liked the 'only one heal allowed' rule. I applied a +2
escalating TN modifier, but it's not exactly an elegant solution...)

(3) What Domains to cars fall into? Assuming that they are not in whatever
domain they're currently in (City for streets, Hearth for garage, etc), do
they have distinct sub-domains? Could a city sprit, even if it couldn't
enter the car, rip the roof off and snatch someone out? I see a parallel
here to the 'closed top vehicles protect from magic' rule (and it's
because of rules titles like that that Steve writes for FASA and I don't
:]) Further, what about RVs which people live in? Do they get a hearth
sprit? What about caravans?

Sorry. Told you it was nit-picking, but my players were trying to take
their minds off the fact that they got shot up (badly) by a bunch of
sub-zero essence, non cybermantic hellions (basically, just meat puppets
remote controlled by riggers and with no living spirit ;) Boy, was the
mage with stun bolt surprised ;).

And, in case I don't have time to check my e-mail tomorrow, I will shortly
have to go no-mail as my father is too stingy to install e-mail at home.
If I don't get the chance again, Merry Christmas to everyone & I'll see
you when I return to Uni in the new year.

-=R=-
Message no. 2
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Pointless magic questions
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:43:37 -0700
> (1) Can a magician summon a spirit in Astral Space?

I have never seen anything that says no..I say why not..Although the
summoning might be something more in line with an astral quest..the
summoning magician jaunts off to the astral plane of the spirit in
question and drags them back to do their bidding..In saying all this
I assume that you are talking about a spirit that already owes
services..

> (2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?

One..Otherwise just forget about wounds if there is a healer in your
party..afterall they will be erased after the fight anyway...

> (3) What Domains to cars fall into? Assuming that they are not in whatever
> domain they're currently in (City for streets, Hearth for garage, etc), do
> they have distinct sub-domains?

That is something I have contemplated as well..And my answer is
similar to Colorado state law..a person's vehicle is an extension of
their home..This of course does not include stuff like a city bus..as
that is not a personal vehicle..Haven't you ever had a vehicle that
seemed to work better if you talked to it nice?? And don't look at me
like you never talked to your car..I -know- you have cursed it at
least once..

>Could a city sprit, even if it couldn't
> enter the car, rip the roof off and snatch someone out? I see a parallel
> here to the 'closed top vehicles protect from magic' rule

Why not..

> Do they get a hearth
> sprit? What about caravans?

See above..and as for caravans [we call then trailers in the US
:)]..looks like a home..acts like a home..it is a home..of course it
isn't as though spirits are issued at the manufacturing plant..they
have to actually be lived in to attract a spirit..

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Message no. 3
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Pointless magic questions
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:05:23 -0500
<comments on each query snipped, read the original post if you're
interested>

On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:05:31 +0000 Richard Gaywood
<richard.gaywood@**************.OXFORD.AC.UK> writes:

>(1) Can a magician summon a spirit in Astral Space?


Depends on the spirit. I'd say that Watchers are fair game, and Nature
Spirits, too, assuming that you're in the correct domain (as specified in
Awakenings and SR2) to summon the spirit. Elementals are a no-go, IMHO,
since I don't think you can create a hermetic circle without some sort of
physical representation or action. I would guess that you can call them
up off of stand-by, however.


>(2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?


Once. And if you've Treated it, you can't use Heal on it, either, IMHO.
That is what the rules say, it also feels right to me. But then, my
knowledge of RL magick is more-or-less nil, so I can't base anything off
of that.


>(3) What Domains to cars fall into? Assuming that they are not in
whatever
>domain they're currently in (City for streets, Hearth for garage, etc),
do
>they have distinct sub-domains? Could a city sprit, even if it couldn't
>enter the car, rip the roof off and snatch someone out? I see a parallel
>here to the 'closed top vehicles protect from magic' rule (and it's
>because of rules titles like that that Steve writes for FASA and I don't
>:]) Further, what about RVs which people live in? Do they get a hearth
>sprit? What about caravans?


Okay, didn't snip the above because it was still a bunch of questions:)

The domain that a car falls into is going to depend on how the car is
used. Most likely, you'll run into domain overlap with the car (for
instance, a rusted-out car that sits in some back-alley in the Barrens
could be considered part of the City domain (it is essentially part of
the alley) -- but could also be Hearth domain because of the homeless
family that lives in the car). Ditto for an RV. If the owners spend
enough time living out of the RV, then I'd say that it could count for
Hearth domain. Overlapping domains within it might depend on where it is.



--
John Pederson "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --South Park
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 4
From: Blade Hunter <bladehnt@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Pointless magic questions
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:07:06 -0500
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:05:31 +0000 Richard Gaywood
> <richard.gaywood@**************.OXFORD.AC.UK> writes:
> >(2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?
>
>
> Once. And if you've Treated it, you can't use Heal on it, either, IMHO.
> That is what the rules say, it also feels right to me. But then, my
> knowledge of RL magick is more-or-less nil, so I can't base anything off
> of that.

For those sadistic players, I allow Biotech checks to reopen the wound and
try for a better healing (with the potential of causing more harm, of
course). Of course, house rule as it is, and nevermind blood magic
potential...

As for RL magick, real life corresponds far worse in regards to SR magic
than all those questionable firearms/vehicle/etc. threads.

> >(3) What Domains to cars fall into? Assuming that they are not in
> whatever
> >domain they're currently in (City for streets, Hearth for garage, etc),
> do
> >they have distinct sub-domains? Could a city sprit, even if it couldn't
> >enter the car, rip the roof off and snatch someone out? I see a parallel
> >here to the 'closed top vehicles protect from magic' rule (and it's
> >because of rules titles like that that Steve writes for FASA and I don't
> >:]) Further, what about RVs which people live in? Do they get a hearth
> >sprit? What about caravans?
> Okay, didn't snip the above because it was still a bunch of questions:)

Personally, I'd say the City spirit can rip into the roof of the mobile
hearth domain RV, letting the City domain flow in until the RV runs off
the pier and enters the sea domain...but that's just my opinion.

> The domain that a car falls into is going to depend on how the car is
> used. Most likely, you'll run into domain overlap with the car (for
> instance, a rusted-out car that sits in some back-alley in the Barrens
> could be considered part of the City domain (it is essentially part of
> the alley) -- but could also be Hearth domain because of the homeless
> family that lives in the car). Ditto for an RV. If the owners spend
> enough time living out of the RV, then I'd say that it could count for
> Hearth domain. Overlapping domains within it might depend on where it is.

Alas, domains are only bounded by the opinions of the GM. House rules and
educated guesses and whatnot figure best here than trying to get concrete
ruling.

Anyway, five pesos and a bad 'net connection...
-me.
bladehnt@*********.net
Message no. 5
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Pointless magic questions
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:48:10 +0100
>(1) Can a magician summon a spirit in Astral Space?
> (Alright, not quite so nit-picking. Still, although game balance says
> no, why not? Particularly for shamans, as the section of Astral Space
> is in the same domain as the piece of real space.)

As I remember, it's specified you can't in SR2 but perhaps not. Otherwise,
in some novels, characters do summon spirits in astral space.
IMO this all depends on how you consider summoning works. If you think it's
something like a deal between the spirit and the mage, I think you could
summon in astral plane. If you consider summoning like 'spells' or formulas
you use to force the spirit to obey you (that's my point of view but I
sometime allow the first possibility which involves more roleplaying), then
I think you can't summon a spirit in astral plane but it must it is tied to
my interpretation of how magic works.

>(2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?
> (I never liked the 'only one heal allowed' rule. I applied a +2
> escalating TN modifier, but it's not exactly an elegant solution...)

I use only one treat to heal someone but I think you could use one heal per
wound (which means that if you get a moderate then a light, you could heal
the light and/or the moderate) but you would need to keep track on how many
wounds you have and which were allready healed. An other solution could be
to let a day between each try so the players would have to use heal instead
of treat. Another one could to allow the use of heal spell after the use of
a treat spell.
Don't forget that you can use (well... Perhaps it's house rules) first aid
before treat or heal. If you succeed in your biotec roll, this makes
healing much more easier.

>(3) What Domains to cars fall into? Assuming that they are not in whatever
>domain they're currently in (City for streets, Hearth for garage, etc), do
>they have distinct sub-domains? Could a city sprit, even if it couldn't
>enter the car, rip the roof off and snatch someone out? I see a parallel
>here to the 'closed top vehicles protect from magic' rule (and it's
>because of rules titles like that that Steve writes for FASA and I don't
>:]) Further, what about RVs which people live in? Do they get a hearth
>sprit? What about caravans?

OK. First, you need to think that domains rarely stops when it reaches
another domain. Thus, you could consider that domains do have some cross
over. For the car, which I would consider as hearth domain, a street spirit
could act on the vehicle because of this cross over. However, it wouldn't
be able to act on the passengers. IMO it could rip the roof off but I don't
think it could snatch the guy... This all makes use of great form spirits
easier.

>Sorry. Told you it was nit-picking, but my players were trying to take
>their minds off the fact that they got shot up (badly) by a bunch of
>sub-zero essence, non cybermantic hellions (basically, just meat puppets
>remote controlled by riggers and with no living spirit ;) Boy, was the
>mage with stun bolt surprised ;).

I like this idea.

>And, in case I don't have time to check my e-mail tomorrow, I will shortly
>have to go no-mail as my father is too stingy to install e-mail at home.
>If I don't get the chance again, Merry Christmas to everyone & I'll see
>you when I return to Uni in the new year.

Merry Christmas ! Bon Noel !


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Pointless magic questions
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:32:52 +0100
Richard Gaywood said on 0:05/ 4 Dec 97...

> (1) Can a magician summon a spirit in Astral Space?
> (Alright, not quite so nit-picking. Still, although game balance says
> no, why not? Particularly for shamans, as the section of Astral Space
> is in the same domain as the piece of real space.)

This one keeps haunting me :) I'm sure I once read in an SR book that it's
NOT possible to conjure spirits while you're astrally projecting, but
since then I haven't been able to find it anywhere :/

> (2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?
> (I never liked the 'only one heal allowed' rule. I applied a +2
> escalating TN modifier, but it's not exactly an elegant solution...)

Once. For every "set" of wounds, you can be magically healed only one
time. As soon as you take more damage, you can be healed again, but only
the _new_ damage can be removed by this second spell.

> (3) What Domains to cars fall into? Assuming that they are not in whatever
> domain they're currently in (City for streets, Hearth for garage, etc), do
> they have distinct sub-domains? Could a city sprit, even if it couldn't
> enter the car, rip the roof off and snatch someone out? I see a parallel
> here to the 'closed top vehicles protect from magic' rule (and it's
> because of rules titles like that that Steve writes for FASA and I don't
> :]) Further, what about RVs which people live in? Do they get a hearth
> sprit? What about caravans?

A car is the domain it's in, except possibly an RV (or caravan, IMHO)
that's being continually lived in, as opposed to being used only for
vacations etc.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - 5044116
N.B. Please do not read the lyrics while listening to the recordings.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 7
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Pointless magic questions
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:55:38 -0700
> > (2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?
> > (I never liked the 'only one heal allowed' rule. I applied a +2
> > escalating TN modifier, but it's not exactly an elegant solution...)
>
> Once. For every "set" of wounds, you can be magically healed only one
> time. As soon as you take more damage, you can be healed again, but only
> the _new_ damage can be removed by this second spell.

LOL..Yea..We spotted this little loop hole once upon a time..before
FASA clarified it...Of course our GM would only let us do it a couple
of times before he nixed it..Oh I didn't quite erase all of the
damage you took..here..this is gonna pinch a bit..pull out pen
knife..stab..OK now I'll cast heal on you again..There isn't that
better..all the damage is gone ;)
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Message no. 8
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Pointless magic questions
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:49:00 GMT
on 03.12.97 lobo1@****.COM wrote:

l> >(2) How many times can you cast Treat on one wound?
l>
l>
l> Once. And if you've Treated it, you can't use Heal on it, either, IMHO.
l> That is what the rules say, it also feels right to me. But then, my
l> knowledge of RL magick is more-or-less nil, so I can't base anything off
l> of that.

Nice house rule: Additinally to the only-once-per-wound-rule you can only
cast heal on a person every 24 hours. So if Mr. Sammy gets his med wound
healed and takes a serious, he's in big problems...
(Well, this is ripped from the Midgard system...)



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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