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Message no. 1
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Police History Flaw
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:10:35 -0500
The Police Record flaw in the Companion is -NASTY- much more so than the
registered equipement flaw ...

Anyway, I want to give a character a police file and a pretty unshakable
(in a bad way) SIN and the Police Record Flaw is not it ... The Police
Record flaw is for someone just paroled out of prison ... so how about
someone out of prison and not on parole? (ie, arresting youg for maybe
petty theft and now is off parole and everything .... (though maybe not
for long considering this is a Shadowrunner ...)

So what would be the point cost for the flaw? 4?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 2
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:20:23 PDT
>The Police Record flaw in the Companion is -NASTY- much more so than
the >registered equipement flaw ...
>
>Anyway, I want to give a character a police file and a pretty
unshakable >(in a bad way) SIN and the Police Record Flaw is not it ...
The Police
>Record flaw is for someone just paroled out of prison ... so how about
>someone out of prison and not on parole? (ie, arresting youg for maybe
>petty theft and now is off parole and everything .... (though maybe not
>for long considering this is a Shadowrunner ...)
> >So what would be the point cost for the flaw? 4?
>
I would have 2 variations based on prior conviction, a shadowrunner
convicted for petty theft with unshakeable SIN would have about a 3 pt
flaw, a Ex-murderer off parole with no acces to legal weapons or
anything else like that would come up about a 5 pt flaw.
Cool idea
MRhaPPYThESMILEyman

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 3
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:36:57 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/98 11:31:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mad_bomb@*******.COM writes:

> a Ex-murderer off parole with no acces to legal weapons or
> anything else like that would come up about a 5 pt flaw.

You don't just have to be an ex murder to not have access to legal gun
ownership. All you have to do is commit a federal Felony. (I think)

A friend of mine in the army down in Texas made a big mistake by sleeping with
an underling and she said that he raped her. He got 36 month's in Levanworth
with a dishonaorbale discharge and can never oen a gun agian if I remember
correctly.
Message no. 4
From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:47:12 +1000
>The Police Record flaw in the Companion is -NASTY- much more so than
the
>registered equipement flaw ...

Last time i checked, registered equipment was an edge, not a flaw.

>
>Anyway, I want to give a character a police file and a pretty
unshakable
>(in a bad way) SIN and the Police Record Flaw is not it ... The
Police
>Record flaw is for someone just paroled out of prison ... so how
about
>someone out of prison and not on parole? (ie, arresting youg for
maybe
>petty theft and now is off parole and everything .... (though maybe
not
>for long considering this is a Shadowrunner ...)
>
>So what would be the point cost for the flaw? 4?
>
>D. Ghost

<snip sig>

Yeah, that sounds about right, if you do some nasty things to them:)

For example, you could have them being called up to line-ups all the
time, police have a "go slow" policy when going to help the player,
but a "go fast(er)" policy when they think they may be involved in
some crime.

Chameleon,

I'm Always Here, You Just Don't See Me:)
Message no. 5
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:00:31 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/98 8:42:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ElBandit@***.COM
writes:

> You don't just have to be an ex murder to not have access to legal gun
> ownership. All you have to do is commit a federal Felony. (I think)
you're right, felony conviction, dishonorable discharge (as you also note) the
new (well relatively) domestic violence misdemeanor clause, renounce your
citizenship (though if you never were a citizen, you still can get one as long
as you are a resident) no illegal aliens or "mentally incompetent" and if you
actually answer yes to either "Do you take drugs" or "are you a fugitive
from
justice" then you a really too stupid to have a gun.
Message no. 6
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:59:25 -0500
On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:47:12 +1000 Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
writes:
>>The Police Record flaw in the Companion is -NASTY- much more so than
the
>>registered equipement flaw ...

>Last time i checked, registered equipment was an edge, not a flaw.

Whoops. Err... Edge, I mean :) Even so, shouldn't a 6 point edge balance
a 6 point flaw?

>>Anyway, I want to give a character a police file and a pretty
unshakable
>>(in a bad way) SIN and the Police Record Flaw is not it ... The Police
>>Record flaw is for someone just paroled out of prison ... so how about
>>someone out of prison and not on parole? (ie, arresting youg for maybe
>>petty theft and now is off parole and everything .... (though maybe not
>>for long considering this is a Shadowrunner ...)
>>
>>So what would be the point cost for the flaw? 4?
>>
>>D. Ghost

><snip sig>
>
>Yeah, that sounds about right, if you do some nasty things to them:)
>
>For example, you could have them being called up to line-ups all the
>time, police have a "go slow" policy when going to help the player,
>but a "go fast(er)" policy when they think they may be involved in
>some crime.
>
>Chameleon,
>
>I'm Always Here, You Just Don't See Me:)

I don't see why the response time would vary...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 7
From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:27:56 +1000
>On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:47:12 +1000 Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
>writes:
>>>The Police Record flaw in the Companion is -NASTY- much more so
than
>the
>>>registered equipement flaw ...
>
>>Last time i checked, registered equipment was an edge, not a flaw.
>
>Whoops. Err... Edge, I mean :) Even so, shouldn't a 6 point edge
balance
>a 6 point flaw?

Yeah, it should, but that would be on edges and flaws that were
opposites to each other, which i dont think police record and
registered equipment are. (says he who doesn't have the book with him)

>
>>>Anyway, I want to give a character a police file and a pretty
>unshakable
>>>(in a bad way) SIN and the Police Record Flaw is not it ... The
Police
>>>Record flaw is for someone just paroled out of prison ... so how
about
>>>someone out of prison and not on parole? (ie, arresting youg for
maybe
>>>petty theft and now is off parole and everything .... (though maybe
not
>>>for long considering this is a Shadowrunner ...)
>>>
>>>So what would be the point cost for the flaw? 4?
>>>
>>>D. Ghost
>
>><snip sig>
>>
>>Yeah, that sounds about right, if you do some nasty things to them:)
>>
>>For example, you could have them being called up to line-ups all the
>>time, police have a "go slow" policy when going to help the player,
>>but a "go fast(er)" policy when they think they may be involved in
>>some crime.
>>
>>Chameleon,
>>
>>I'm Always Here, You Just Don't See Me:)
>
>I don't see why the response time would vary...
>
>D. Ghost


It would vary because Lone Star wouldn't bother racing to defend a
known criminal and wound race to recapture a known criminal.
Message no. 8
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:29:08 PDT
>You don't just have to be an ex murder to not have access to legal gun
I should have been clearer, a serious federal offence that has
harsh penalties etc.
MRhaPPYthESMilEYmAN

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 9
From: Viking Lord <da_viking@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:31:42 PDT
>From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>

>>You don't just have to be an ex murder to not have access to legal gun
> I should have been clearer, a serious federal offence that has
>harsh penalties etc.
> MRhaPPYthESMilEYmAN
>
You mean like jaywalking?



Forwards My Loyal Vikings!
The Waterlogged Viking Lord


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Message no. 10
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:22:47 EDT
In a message dated 9/7/98 12:33:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU writes:

>
> >I don't see why the response time would vary...
> >
> >D. Ghost
>
>
> It would vary because Lone Star wouldn't bother racing to defend a
> known criminal and wound race to recapture a known criminal.
>
I can see the response slowing when the address of a known-criminal flashes
up, especially if it something that they have responded to before. (After the
fourth call for a domestic dispute at the same address, how fast do you
drive?)
Them racing to a crime scene if they think the crim is involved, doesn't
seem right. General harrasment maybe (stopping on street, because they have
the right to search whenever they want, or questioning the character whenever
there is a crime fitting his MO.
"but officer I didn't do anything, and if we don't hurry up I will be late
for the shadowrun I got planned later!"
Message no. 11
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:36:07 -0700
> You don't just have to be an ex murder to not have access to legal gun
> ownership. All you have to do is commit a federal Felony. (I think)

All it has to be is a simple felony..Although it is different in
every state..some states let you accumulate 3..some ony revoke your
privlages for a specific period..It is not uniform at all...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 12
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:36:06 -0700
> Anyway, I want to give a character a police file and a pretty unshakable
> (in a bad way) SIN and the Police Record Flaw is not it ... The Police
> Record flaw is for someone just paroled out of prison ... so how about
> someone out of prison and not on parole?

While I have not read this particular flaw..I will give you a quick
low down on how it works in RL..
In RL..this particular flaw works against a whole lot more that those
that go off to DOC..Actually going off to DOC get these individuals
out of the minds of patrol cops..

The folks that likely to tread the other side of the law become -very-
recognizable to officers..I can and do spot people that have spent
even a small amount of time in our county facility..It takes only a
flash in the corner of my eye to spot these people...then I recognize
where I know this person from..It works the same for the patrol
guys..they catch a glimpse of a guy they have regular contact with
..and it is all over but the booking..these folks are -usually- up to
something..and when you spot more than one together..it is almost
definite..So watch for a little while..and let them do the things
that they do..and they are caught in the act..

I see it working much the same in SR..any time a LS is in the area..a
PC with this flaw has a very good chance of at least being
followed..if not immediately rousted..Any player in a game I run
should thank twice before taking such a flaw..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 13
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:35:47 -0700
>In a message dated 9/6/98 8:42:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ElBandit@***.COM
>writes:
>
>> You don't just have to be an ex murder to not have access to legal gun
>> ownership. All you have to do is commit a federal Felony. (I think)
>you're right, felony conviction, dishonorable discharge (as you also note) the
>new (well relatively) domestic violence misdemeanor clause, renounce your
>citizenship (though if you never were a citizen, you still can get one as long
>as you are a resident) no illegal aliens or "mentally incompetent" and if
you
>actually answer yes to either "Do you take drugs" or "are you a
fugitive from
>justice" then you a really too stupid to have a gun.

Worse than that. Nowadays in the U.S. there is a bill up that prevents you
from ever owning a gun if you have a misdemeanor conviction of domestic
violence.

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 14
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:53:31 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/98 12:26:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, granite@**.NET
writes:

> All it has to be is a simple felony..Although it is different in
> every state..some states let you accumulate 3..some ony revoke your
> privlages for a specific period..It is not uniform at all...
sorry in this (as I wrote earlier) you are wrong, the qualifications are
Federal (GCA of 68)
Message no. 15
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:21:28 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/98 5:39:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> >> You don't just have to be an ex murder to not have access to legal gun
> >> ownership. All you have to do is commit a federal Felony. (I think)
> >you're right, felony conviction, dishonorable discharge (as you also note)
>
*** the
***new (well relatively) domestic violence misdemeanor clause,
>renounce your
> >citizenship (though if you never were a citizen, you still can get one as
> long
> >as you are a resident) no illegal aliens or "mentally incompetent" and
if
> you
> >actually answer yes to either "Do you take drugs" or "are you a
fugitive
> from
> >justice" then you a really too stupid to have a gun.
>
> Worse than that. Nowadays in the U.S. there is a bill up that prevents you
> from ever owning a gun if you have a misdemeanor conviction of domestic
> violence.
>
see above :-)
Message no. 16
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:00:12 -0700
> > All it has to be is a simple felony..Although it is different in
> > every state..some states let you accumulate 3..some ony revoke your
> > privlages for a specific period..It is not uniform at all...
> sorry in this (as I wrote earlier) you are wrong, the qualifications are
> Federal (GCA of 68)

I happen to be in law enforcement and know at least a little of
which I speak..and While a Federal Felony conviction will get your
rights revoked..So will a state level Felony...Even the smallest
6F..And the penalties are not standard from state to state by any
means....I had some specific examples..I will have to see if I can
find them at work tomorrow night...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 17
From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:12:53 +1000
Not wanting to sound like a know-it-all, but these posts about
American legal system on the legal right to purchase guns after
committing a felony seem to be waaaaay OT and WAAAAY off Shadowrunn,
time to move it to private I think.

Chameleon, living in a land where it's so hard to get guns, people go
round with swords and the police are armed with taco toppings

I'm Always Here, You Just Don't See Me:)
Message no. 18
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:44:32 -0500
On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:12:53 +1000 Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
writes:
>Not wanting to sound like a know-it-all, but these posts about
>American legal system on the legal right to purchase guns after
>committing a felony seem to be waaaaay OT and WAAAAY off Shadowrunn,
>time to move it to private I think.

Nope. It's not [OT] because the disscussion is in response to a question
I asked about making a less severe version of the NASTY flaw in SRCo
about a Police Record.

>Chameleon, living in a land where it's so hard to get guns, people go
>round with swords and the police are armed with taco toppings
<SNIP Sig>

Btw, anybody else notice that in SR, you can get a permit to carry a gun
but a survival knife is illegal? (to even OWN one)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 19
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:53:39 -0400
Okay. You want a PC that has a police record, but not necessarily is fresh
out of jail. Right?

Easily enough done actually. Perhaps the PC is currently on probation and
has to check in once a week with his probation officer. And that probation
officer is free to break down the PC's door whenever he/she feels like.

Perhaps the PC is like the organized crime bosses. Everyone knows they are
dirty. They do get arrested. But the charges never stick. Nothing ever
goes to trial, for whatever reason.

Both scenarios are probably worth at least being a 4 point flaw. Both of
them mean they get a lot of unwanted attention, often at the most
inopportune times. Perhaps during a meet the PC is hassled by Lone Star or
a probation officer. Perhaps during a date, lovemaking, shopping at a
popular and crowded mall. Contacts would be less likely to agree to a
face-to-face meet (what, and risk getting nabbed too?).

So with this concept, the PC has a record and gets hassled, but it's not as
bad as the Flaw from the Companion. The record isn't as bad and the
hassling won't be as bad. But it'll be there.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 20
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:12:58 EDT
In a message dated 9/9/98 12:03:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, granite@**.NET
writes:

> > > All it has to be is a simple felony..Although it is different in
> > > every state..some states let you accumulate 3..some ony revoke your
> > > privlages for a specific period..It is not uniform at all...
> > sorry in this (as I wrote earlier) you are wrong, the qualifications are
> > Federal (GCA of 68)
>
> I happen to be in law enforcement and know at least a little of
> which I speak..and While a Federal Felony conviction will get your
> rights revoked..So will a state level Felony...Even the smallest
> 6F..And the penalties are not standard from state to state by any
> means....I had some specific examples..I will have to see if I can
> find them at work tomorrow night...
I sell guns (legally mind you :-)
any Felony for which you could have been sentenced to 1 year or more (even if
the judge did not actually sentence you to more than 1 year)
This is all a part of the Gun Control Act of '68.
Message no. 21
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Police History Flaw
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:24:19 -0400
Michael--

>any Felony for which you could have been sentenced to 1 year
>or more (even if the judge did not actually sentence you to more
>than 1 year)
>This is all a part of the Gun Control Act of '68.

Heh. If you were convicted of a Felony (which by
definition is any crime for which the minimum sentence is one
year), and the judge suspended sentence for whatever reason, the
simple fact that you were convicted of a Felony bars you from
purchasing or owning a firearm legally, even if you never spent a
day in jail. For that matter, if you were ever legally committed
to a mental institution, you're barred from having a firearm.

In Shadowrun, if you don't have a SIN, you can't buy a
firearm from a firearms dealer. If Lone Star pulls over a Street
Sam, but the SS manages to convince the cops that he's a loony,
then he gets hauled to the nearest mental hospital, tagged with
a SIN, and that SIN says "Mentally incompetent." You can bet that
the SS will be paying a *lot* of money to a friendly decker to
get that SIN wiped, even if the decker happens to think that the
"Mentally incompetent" tag fits the SS perfectly... <g>
If your SIN doesn't have the appropriate permits, then
again, you can't buy a gun from a gun store. Better hope that the
decker who set up that SIN is really good.

Shadowmage

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Police History Flaw, you may also be interested in:

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