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Message no. 1
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:59:02 +0100
I'm toying with the idea of a postapocalyptic setting - that is, a not - too
distant future where nuclear war has almost, but not quite, destroyed the
earth. The main source of inspiration is the setting as depicted in
Fallout, Fist of the North Star, Damnation Alley, Mad Max and similar -
one where patches of high technology remain as items of religion, where
tribes and gangs, scavengers, nomads is the 'norm' for society. Population
would be reduced to a thousandth of current or less.

The war has caused mutations, a shattering of barriers, which is the cause of
this setting's 'awakening'.

I assume some of you have done something similar before, or considered it.

How did you handle problems like play balance (In shadowrun, magic is balanced
by chrome.. in this setting, chrome would be rare.) ?

The world that got hit by the 'war' was in 2070 or so - very, very advanced.
fifty years later, tech has been reduced to 19th or early 20th century - with a
few remaining 'artifacts' of hightech remaining, a few groups with more
advanced tech. (And quite a number of tech barbarians - they scavenge and use
tech but has no idea how it works or its intended use or maintenance.).

Suggestions, comments, thoughts?

--
Fade, runefo@***.uio.no
----------------------------------
ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
-Ambrose Bierce
Message no. 2
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:39:44 -0500
On Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 03:59:02PM +0100, Rune Fostervoll wrote:
> I'm toying with the idea of a postapocalyptic setting - that is, a not - too
> distant future where nuclear war has almost, but not quite, destroyed the
> earth. The main source of inspiration is the setting as depicted in
> Fallout, Fist of the North Star, Damnation Alley, Mad Max and similar -
> one where patches of high technology remain as items of religion, where
> tribes and gangs, scavengers, nomads is the 'norm' for society. Population
> would be reduced to a thousandth of current or less.
>
> The war has caused mutations, a shattering of barriers, which is the cause of
> this setting's 'awakening'.

> I assume some of you have done something similar before, or considered it.
> How did you handle problems like play balance (In shadowrun, magic is balanced
> by chrome.. in this setting, chrome would be rare.) ?
>
> The world that got hit by the 'war' was in 2070 or so - very, very advanced.
> fifty years later, tech has been reduced to 19th or early 20th century - with a
> few remaining 'artifacts' of hightech remaining, a few groups with more
> advanced tech. (And quite a number of tech barbarians - they scavenge and use
> tech but has no idea how it works or its intended use or maintenance.).
>
Hmm..ways to balance magic..1st I'd loose initiation's all together.
I'd also limit availibility of any focus with a rating over 2 or 3.
By limiting spell selection, you could probably control the rest.
However someone like a PA with increased reflexes, would be lethal
in a game like this, so you'd have to use those sparingly.
It would take some adaption, since many of SR's creatures, are
also geared towards the high end of things.
I've seen an adventure run, where a few SR players got "shifted"
to an alternate earth similiar to this for a few game sessions.
It worked fine, until they ran out of ammo, had their sword break, etc.
Then it got fairly interesting. However the mage was limited.
Focuses got "unbonded" in the transition, and the only spirits
he could find were either toxics, or force 1-3.
Basically it would require alot of work on the GM's part, and some
willing players, but could easily be done. (Although riggers and deckers
may have some problems then).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Uh-Oh Toto, it doesn't look like we're gods anymore."
Message no. 3
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:36:25 GMT
Just to add a few points on what I had in mind..

I'll describe a few characters I had in mind - either as PC's or NPC's.

Oldtimer
- someone surviving from the prewar times, having lived his or her entire
life in one of the shelters. (Anyone unsheltered would die from cancer long
before). These people, having lived their entire life in underground bunkers,
can have very verying pasts depending on who they were before the war. First
of all, the bunker could have been a high-tech shelter housing hundreds, with
advanced facilities for survival, education, and so on. The oldtimers are few,
and more often than not hold fairly high positions... but they are also old,
has had more than their share of cancer. Their knowledge of technology
is far beyond anyone else, and also their irreverent attitude towards it
is unique. (Not that they might not smile with happiness if they found,
say, a powered armor or similar.).

Undergrounder
- Someone that grew up in an underground, self - contained shelter (Vault).
Until they left the vault they had no challenges for survival. The vault
provided everything, although might have been crowded. This sheltered
environment could have provided education, but as likely a certain apathy
and carelessness. They could have been sent on some sort of mission.


Scavenger
- Someone living off the wasteland, either bound to certain sites
with rich pickings, or travelling widely in search of such sites.

Raider
- someone living off the inhabitants of the wasteland. Usually living with
a group of likeminded people, they live a harsh, brutal, often short life,
but with more material wealth than most.

Farmers
- These live the harshest life of all. Agriculture, being near impossible,
yields little for much work. The dangers of the burnt land is always
near, and most must be prepared for them. Still, they live short,
hard lives with little promise of improvement. And they are the only
hope for the future, because sooner or later the caches of hoarded food
will run dry... and it looks like sooner.

Rangers
- The sons and grandsons(or daughters) from one of the military vaults, these
has grown up with a lot more rigid, stiff upbringing, with prewar military
values.. but also training. Has more often than not gone into the wasteland
to try to bring order to the world, and they have a hard job ahead of them.
They might have limited access to cyber.

Steel Brothers
A religious order praying to the God known as Tech and his son, the Machine.
His apostles are Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry and Biology... they have
no understanding of technology, but make use of it still. The incantations
to work a computer are done by rote, the scriptures are followed closely...
and they pray that the miracle of Science might happen again, and that its
second coming will bring paradise to earth. They have access to frightening
technology, and is capable of reproducing some of it. THey are reclusive.


Well, that's a few ideas and thoughts.
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:46:45 -0700
Rune Fostervoll wrote:
/
/ I'm toying with the idea of a postapocalyptic setting - that is, a not - too
/ distant future where nuclear war has almost, but not quite, destroyed the
/ earth. The main source of inspiration is the setting as depicted in
/ Fallout, Fist of the North Star, Damnation Alley, Mad Max and similar -
/ one where patches of high technology remain as items of religion, where
/ tribes and gangs, scavengers, nomads is the 'norm' for society. Population
/ would be reduced to a thousandth of current or less.

FYI, the earth's population hovered at about 800,000 prior to the
technological advances of the 1800s. That'd be a good benchmark to
follow for population.

/ How did you handle problems like play balance (In shadowrun, magic is balanced
/ by chrome.. in this setting, chrome would be rare.) ?

I'd balance magic by making it even rarer, or giving it a negative
aspect (maybe using magic has a possiblity of summoning something
similar to the Bugs, or every spell cast increases the background
count of the area by 1/10 of it's force (cumulative) and when a
threshold is reached bad things happen and magicians are feared and
hated because of this). Or, increase the drain codes.

Also, I'd make any cyber- or bioware available Delta grade (military
installations). Of course it would be rare as hell, and strings
would be attached (that AI that gave you the wired reflexes has an
L-Sat watching your everymove).

/ Suggestions, comments, thoughts?

Sounds like fun :)

-David
--
"I don't think of all the misery,
but of all the beauty that still remains."
- Anne Frank
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 5
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:55:13 -0700
Rune Fostervoll wrote:
/
/ Just to add a few points on what I had in mind..
/
/ I'll describe a few characters I had in mind - either as PC's or NPC's.

Apostles of the Machine

People who come from advanced military vaults which still have
operating computers (expert systems or AIs). If the vault has an
operating AI then it is running the show. Being a military AI it's
views are warped. If the vault is running off an expert system then
the high priest(s) interpret it's commands.

Apostles of the Machine have access to high technology. However,
they are members of a strict religion that is often at odds with the
rest of Earth's population.

-David
--
"I don't think of all the misery,
but of all the beauty that still remains."
- Anne Frank
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 6
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 17:41:59 GMT
Dbuehrer wrote:
>Also, I'd make any cyber- or bioware available Delta grade (military
>installations). Of course it would be rare as hell, and strings
>would be attached (that AI that gave you the wired reflexes has an
>L-Sat watching your everymove).

One of the things I thougt was that most cyberware would be 'used' - the
resources to manufacture it is lost, but what still exists can be
reimplanted once the host is killed... preferrably before, since most
cyberware needs a body to work in and supply it with electricity and stuff.
(House rule particular for the campaign). Of course, deplanting cyberware
kills the host. It's also done by one of the few computer expert systems -
noone has the skill to do such surgery.

Also, what has happened to the rest of the world? Any moon/orbital bases?
Is some parts more or less unaffected? I'd leave that to think about later.
Might be fun if one of them, (a self-sustained research station?) had
not only survived, but created totally alien technology even by SR standards..
something like the organic tech used by the Vorlons, perhaps... and
might land as an 'Angel'. (Or a shadow....).

A campaign idea I had was to let the players be a team of raiders, or
possibly 'rangers'... let them build a bad kickass band of raiders, 20-30
strong, then suddenly hint that things are happening somewhere in the
south - a large raider group is moving slowly north, looting, subjugating,
killing and raping everyone in their path. (Not necessarily in that order, but
usually.). Will they stand aside and let 'THEIR' towns burn (loosing them
their livelihood) or fight.. or join them? Or perhaps introduce Paladins..
the few remaining immortal*(see below) full-conversion cyborgs, in powered
military armor, using miniguns, lasers and similar... as guards for a caraven
they are raiding. Or other encounters - a strange mix of widely varying
social orders, tech levels and madness would give a large range of interesting
or dangerous situations. (Preferrably both.).

* Assuming that full conversion cyborgs no longer age.. they might require
some sort of maintenance, so they might be in varying states of disrepair,
but then again, they might not. Once there's two, and they have the skills
needed, and has scavenged some gear, they're almost there...
(Check one of my earlier posts on beta cyber and cyberzombies. In either
case, they might not abide by all the SR rules, to fit the setting.).

Would Twilight/Merc 2000 be better? Possibly.. I don't think so, though,
as it is less useful for things strange and out of the ordinary.
As magic should be a part of this campaign, SR is a good base. Obviously, I
haven't quite figured out its part yet, though. For a pure 'mad max' style
campaign it might be better, though, I dunno. If anyone's seen
'Fist of the North Star' that might be one way to go... well, enough.
Message no. 7
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:55:31 -0500
As for balancing magic in this Mad Max world, have you thought about
borrowing from the similar world shown in Harlequin's Back? In that one,
the magic level was low or worked differently. If I remember right, all
drain was physical and there was a strong blood magic element.

That would almost certainly bring the power of the mages down.

Erik J.
Message no. 8
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:42:28 -0600
Well, It may be just me, but this sounds amazingly similar to the plots of both
Gamma World and Rifts...

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
ICQ 8108186 , AIM handle Nexx3
************
A beautiful woman is the hell of the soul, the purgatory of the purse, and the
paradise of the eye.........
***********
Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been
poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find
that money cannot be eaten.
- Cree Indian Prophecy
***********
Am Moireach Mor!
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:58:14 -0700
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ As for balancing magic in this Mad Max world, have you thought about
/ borrowing from the similar world shown in Harlequin's Back? In that one,
/ the magic level was low or worked differently. If I remember right, all
/ drain was physical and there was a strong blood magic element.

This is starting to sound like "Shadowrun GURPS" ;)

-David
--
"I don't think of all the misery,
but of all the beauty that still remains."
- Anne Frank
--
ShadowRN GridSec
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 10
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:13:34 EST
In a message dated 98-03-16 11:54:45 EST, dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

<snipped the Military AI/Expert System option>

> Apostles of the Machine have access to high technology. However,
> they are members of a strict religion that is often at odds with the
> rest of Earth's population.

This kind of sounds like what I was trying to describe to Rune earlier
offline. Does anyone else remember or have ever seen/watched..."Cadillacs and
Dinosaurs?"

The "Apostles of the Machine" sound like a more disciplined/structured version
of C&D's "Mechanics."

-K
Message no. 11
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:16:40 -0500
At 10:39 AM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hmm..ways to balance magic..

{snip}
Also, maybe limit magicians to adepts, rather than full-mages. It'll help
balance the fact that there's no tech to let other people 'catch up' to the
magical characters.


losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.




the damned."


TMBG
Message no. 12
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 05:06:03 +0000
Buehrer wrote:
> / As for balancing magic in this Mad Max world, have you thought about
> / borrowing from the similar world shown in Harlequin's Back? In that one,
> / the magic level was low or worked differently. If I remember right, all
> / drain was physical and there was a strong blood magic element.
>
> This is starting to sound like "Shadowrun GURPS" ;)
Nexx also commented it sounded awfully like Rifts or Gamma World.

I've seen none of the abovementioned gaming systems. I guess I should
take it as a compliment that what I write's comparable to published
game worlds. ;)
Are either of the systems any good?

As for Harlequin's Back, I've been led to believe I'll be a player in
it sometime in the not too distant future, so the less known about it
the better.

Using F(drain) instead of F/2(drain) seems reasonable. So does
limiting foci. Physical drain doesn't sound too good.



--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 13
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:24:32 -0600
> Nexx also commented it sounded awfully like Rifts or Gamma World.
>
> I've seen none of the abovementioned gaming systems. I guess I should
> take it as a compliment that what I write's comparable to published
> game worlds. ;)
> Are either of the systems any good?
Depends on who you ask and which version <g>. Rifts was good in the
beginning, but anything after World Book 5 gets so munchkin its not even
funny... Gamma World I haven't play in several years, so I don't remember (but
I remember it being really fun)
Message no. 14
From: Benjamin Eriksen <benjamin.eriksen@******.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:19:39 +0100
At 15:59 16.03.98 +0100, you wrote:
>I'm toying with the idea of a postapocalyptic setting - that is, a not - too
>distant future where nuclear war has almost, but not quite, destroyed the
>earth. The main source of inspiration is the setting as depicted in
>Fallout, Fist of the North Star, Damnation Alley, Mad Max and similar -
>one where patches of high technology remain as items of religion, where
>tribes and gangs, scavengers, nomads is the 'norm' for society. Population
>would be reduced to a thousandth of current or less.
>
>The war has caused mutations, a shattering of barriers, which is the cause of
>this setting's 'awakening'.
>
>Suggestions, comments, thoughts?
>
>--
>Fade, runefo@***.uio.no
>----------------------------------
> ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
> -Ambrose Bierce
>
>
Uh-oh, I got a really bad feeling about my next run with Fade as GM...
("What do you mean they've pressed the button?") If I see any really large
missiles in this campaign, I'll bend down and kiss myself right between the
buttcheeks, is that it?
Seriously, cyberware doesn't have to be gone in this setting. Firstly, as
you pointed out, it's 2070 and cyberware must have progressed in the ten
plus years since the Shadowrun storyline. Secondly, cyber clinics could
have proliferated since the fall of civilization, but their competence
level could have been seriously degraded. Imagine the mutants in "Judge
Dredd", with Mean Machine as prime example... That's right: a lot of
cheap, high-grade cyberware that you wouldn't want to trust in a tight
spot. It might malfunction, get knocked out of whack, get damaged or
simply stop working. Besides, getting the settings tweaked and keeping up
with SOTA might be all the more vital in this campaign. Also, any
settlements and colonies with a resident cybertechnician would probably do
their best to keep him in one piece so he could keep their cybered guards
top-notch.
Nice movies for inspiration could also be Judge Dredd (which I know you
have...), "Salute of the Juggers" (to cover that techno angle),
"Waterworld" (Waterbreathing a two-point physad power...) or simply the old
Biker babes of the apocalypse movies...
Anyway, I'll see you later today, so we can elaborate on it then...
B.
Message no. 15
From: Benjamin Eriksen <benjamin.eriksen@******.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Post - Apocalyptic Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:36:08 +0100
At 18:13 16.03.98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-03-16 11:54:45 EST, dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:
>
><snipped the Military AI/Expert System option>
>
>> Apostles of the Machine have access to high technology. However,
>> they are members of a strict religion that is often at odds with the
>> rest of Earth's population.
>
>This kind of sounds like what I was trying to describe to Rune earlier
>offline. Does anyone else remember or have ever seen/watched..."Cadillacs
and
>Dinosaurs?"
>
>The "Apostles of the Machine" sound like a more disciplined/structured
version
>of C&D's "Mechanics."
>
>-K
>
>

As a digression, Iid like to add that there's a Swedish post-apocalyptic
roleplaying game called "Mutant" that's set in a future Sweden. I used to
GM it a couple of years ago, but I got bored and so did the players. The
rules have their weaknesses, but the concept is basically just what Fade
describes - a post-nuke age with mutant humans and animals, cyberware
non-existent in early versions (of the game), rare in later ones. In this
game, the fallout of the blasts had resulted in both benign and malign
mutations, causing animals to skip a couple of million years of evolution
and walk erect, speak, use technology and so on. (See "Tank Girl"). A
little thin, I agree, but an amusing idea if your feasability factor is
approaching zero... :)
Also, societies have begun to arise among the ashes, resulting in small
cities where mutants are unwanted and, in some places, outlawed. The blast
zones still contain technological artifacts, incomprehensible to most but
still functioning, as well as huge amounts of radiation. Rad suits might
still be around. I've still got the rules if anyone's interested in a
copy. Might take a while as the books are at my parents' place - in
swedish (you have *no* idea...).
Just my five cents' worth.
B.

Further Reading

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