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Message no. 1
From: Necron necron@*********.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:01:14 -0400
I've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about power gaming,
and a lot of them were negative, so I'm curious, how many here have played
in a high powered campaign, not a normal one where you made a munchy
character, but a truly high powered campaign?
-Necron "If I hadn't killed him you would've!"
Message no. 2
From: Hunter griffinhq@****.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:17:23 -0400
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:01:14 -0400 "Necron" <necron@*********.com>
writes:
> I've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about power
gaming,
> and a lot of them were negative, so I'm curious, how many here have
played
> in a high powered campaign, not a normal one where you made a munchy
> character, but a truly high powered campaign?
>
<coughs politely>
That would be me.

*************************************************************************
Griffin Industries
"A Shadowrunner's Corp."

http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Griffin/index.html

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Message no. 3
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:34:04 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunter" <griffinhq@****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Power Gaming


> > I've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about power
> gaming,
> > and a lot of them were negative, so I'm curious, how many here have
> played
> > in a high powered campaign, not a normal one where you made a munchy
> > character, but a truly high powered campaign?
> >
> <coughs politely>
> That would be me.

*COUGH*

Okay, beware of the terminology usage here as well. "Munchy" and
"Munchkin"
seem to have a massive variety of intonations depending upon the game style
of the people *USING* the term. I will admit, both Hunter and Myself play
games of a "higher power category", but even within our gaming there are
significant differences in style of game play.

For instance, I know that Barbie also plays games of a significantly higher
power than even mine/ours (which can give Hunter nose-bleeds in all honesty
except at the corporate level of things). Many people term her games and
style of gaming as "Munchy". But it really doesn't matter as long as she
enjoys the games she and her group of players implement.

So I'll take a step right here beside Hunter and pull up a chair though (I
hate standing around all the time ;-) and listen to the questions and see
if I can help give some answers/clarifications as well from our perspective
here.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
NeoJudas ("K" to Friends)
"Children of the Kernel: Reborn"
(neojudas@******************.com)
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 4
From: Hunter griffinhq@****.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:59:39 -0400
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:34:04 -0500 "NeoJudas"
<neojudas@******************.com> writes:
>
> Okay, beware of the terminology usage here as well. "Munchy" and
"Munchkin"
> seem to have a massive variety of intonations depending upon the game
style
> of the people *USING* the term. I will admit, both Hunter and Myself
play
> games of a "higher power category", but even within our gaming there
are
> significant differences in style of game play.
>
Sorta, yeah.

> For instance, I know that Barbie also plays games of a significantly
higher
> power than even mine/ours (which can give Hunter nose-bleeds in all
honesty
> except at the corporate level of things).
>
You think? <points below>

*************************************************************************
Griffin Industries
"A Shadowrunner's Corp."

http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Griffin/index.html

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Message no. 5
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:18:01 -0500
From: "Hunter" <griffinhq@****.com>
Subject: Re: Power Gaming


> On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:34:04 -0500 "NeoJudas"
> <neojudas@******************.com> writes:
> > For instance, I know that Barbie also plays games of a significantly
> higher
> > power than even mine/ours (which can give Hunter nose-bleeds in all
> honesty
> > except at the corporate level of things).
> >
> You think? <points below>

I've been to your website Hunter. I know what you have there. All nice and
such. But I'm fairly certain that we could make the vast majority of people
get nervous. Most of that is simply because people have a hard time
considering stepping into a game/storyline that is going on several years
long now (anyone who's been to our website must surely realize that much
information is not generated from a collection of beginner games).

> http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Griffin/index.html

BTW: You colors on that eGroups join box absolutely suck. Yellow (Creme) on
Yellow (Banana) looks more like you are making a vanilla cookie cake or
something... ;-)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Winstar Tech Support and Provisioning (www.winstar.com)
Message no. 6
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 08:27:18 GMT
>From: "Necron" <necron@*********.com>
>I've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about power
>gaming,
>and a lot of them were negative, so I'm curious, how many here have played
>in a high powered campaign, not a normal one where you made a munchy
>character, but a truly high powered campaign?

We tried a Trained To Be Ghosts campaign once with an unlimited equipment
budget and maximum skill levels of eight. It probably would have worked
were it not for the fact that I have trouble creating characters of anything
more than average abilitys. As it was we gave up in favour of a lower
power-level cops campaign.

Phil

That's it; get out of my castle!
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Message no. 7
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 06:08:09 -0400
<Necron wrote:>
"I've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about power
gaming, and a lot of them were negative, so I'm curious, how many here have
played in a high powered campaign, not a normal one where you made a munchy
character, but a truly high powered campaign?"

<<end quotes>>

I have never run or played in a high powered SR game. In fact until I
started running I thought the system lent itself better to the "street
level" scale. I am now seeing things a bit differently..

My plans, should the characters live that long, in my own SR campaign have
the storyline eventually going to the "epic" scale. I thought about sharing
my campaign outline with the list, but am not exactly sure how interesting
(or desired) it would be..

I have run epic scale games in other systems (most notably White Wolf's
WoD) however everything my players have gained was through blood, sweat,
and tears (for vampires those are interchangeable). My White Wolf campaign
lasted 3 years (with about 8 hours of play every week) and the group did
everything from save reality from a technocratic doomsday device the size
of a baseball to time travel into a post apocalyptic future. In fact in one
storyline I had the Wyld, the Weaver, and the Wyrm cast into physical
bodies (think "Time of Troubles" from the Forgotten Realms) The Wyld and
the Wyrm were waging a war across the planet while the characters in my
game were charged with raising a child (the vessel of the Weaver) from an
infant into adolescence. ( suppose that counts as epic scale?). The last
character from the original game died about a year before the campaign
closed (A rank 5 Werewolf with a hefty fetish collection and an even better
collection of scars.) In the last game the character was remembered with
funeral services and his name and deeds entered into the silver record.
Players wept.. (I love my job)

I suppose the basic point of what I am saying is there is no right or wrong
way to role play.. high powered campaigns can be just as fun as low powered
ones.. you just have to maintain the power level consistently as a GM and
make sure that you do not sacrifice content and good storyline for cheap
thrills.

</End Rant>,
-- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle

"...courting death with black roses and bitter candies."
Message no. 8
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 09:44:24 CDT
"Necron" <necron@*********.com> said:
>I've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about power
>gaming, and a lot of them were negative, so I'm curious, how many here have
>played in a high powered campaign, not a normal one where you made a munchy
>character, but a truly high powered campaign?
>-Necron "If I hadn't killed him you would've!"


I have. The campagin started normally, but as the characters progressed
(mainly mine, the rest ended up dead or maimed...that's what you get for
playing a sami or a combat mage), the campagin's power level increased.

Check http://shadowrun.html.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000136-3.html
my name sakes stats are in my second post.

That's the power level we were at when Grim retired. We have since gone back
to a nice beginning level again.

Grim Shear
"Please don't hurt me."
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Message no. 9
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:59:26 EDT
While I've never really tried a high power campaign in SR, I have in other
games, most notably D&D.....They were enjoyable but sooner or later just got
a little stale. To reference the D&D example, I was in a 100th level
campagin, and we were going through pit fiends like most people go through
orcs. (I.E. "Oh, ANOTHER Titan.... ::sighs:: fine....who wants to kill him
this time?")

I think one of the motivations for anyone is the desire for self improvement,
and with a high level campaign you lose that. Granted, the Gm's running those
high level campaigns were pretty good, and we had a point for every
adventure, but eventually all we were doing was saving the world in
increasing degrees. That's why I enjoy playing characters who have something,
whether it be an addiction, a nemesis, or a bad habit, that they have to
conquer. Everyone has problems--that's a fact. And while some might argue
that the characters are heroes becuase they've beaten theirs, or don't have
any at all, I would remind them of the defintion of the tragic hero.

Syphon
Message no. 10
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:03:18 EDT
True...and that's one of the things I like about SR...while you may think you
have the ultimate bad-ass character, there's always something out there more
powerful than you. It makes it much more difficult to run a high power
campaign--assuming the GM isn't unimaginative to the point where he would let
you mow everyone down like wheat.

Syphon
Message no. 11
From: Hunter griffinhq@****.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 14:47:16 -0400
On Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:18:01 -0500 "NeoJudas"
<neojudas@******************.com> writes:
>
> BTW: You colors on that eGroups join box absolutely suck. Yellow
(Creme) on
> Yellow (Banana) looks more like you are making a vanilla cookie cake or
> something... ;-)
>
Mmm.....I'll look into it.

*************************************************************************
Griffin Industries
"A Shadowrunner's Corp."

http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Griffin/index.html

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Message no. 12
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:02:04 CDT
>SyphonAC@***.com said:
>That's why I enjoy playing characters who have something, whether it be an
>addiction, a nemesis, or a bad habit, that they have to conquer. Everyone
>has problems--that's a fact. And while some might argue that the characters
>are heroes becuase they've beaten theirs, or don't have any at all, I would
>remind them of the defintion of the tragic hero.
>Syphon


Same here. All of my character have had something "wrong" with them. Family
problems, nightmares of what they're done, flashbacks. Its always better
(IMO) to have a character that you can work through their problems.

Does anyone else have a character who has nightmares of everything they've
done?

Grim Shear
"I don't want to talk about it."
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Message no. 13
From: Jill jmenning@***********.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 13:50:30 -0500
At 11:02 AM 7/2/00, you wrote:

>Does anyone else have a character who has nightmares of everything they've
>done?

Yes, actually, or I did. I had a character who had nightmares - I'd
mentioned this to my GM in the character description - and as the game
progressed and the body count grew (among other things), they got really
bad - a lot of that was roleplaying on my part, but from time to time the
GM would tell me about a particularly bad one. I eventually had to retire
that character - she was going nuts, getting no sleep, and was getting to
the point where she couldn't work. She sold off a whole bunch of stuff and
took a six-month vacation. Then she stopped writing and I lost track of her :o)

On a side note, I'm in several PBEM games and lurk on a couple more, and I
tend to have these bizarre dreams that mix them all together, even if
they're not the same theme. And if I've seen any movies recently... :oP I
wouldn't call them nightmares, because they're usually more funny than
scary, but still... :o)

>Grim Shear

Jill
Message no. 14
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 18:48:13 CDT
>Jill <jmenning@***********.com> said:
>Yes, actually, or I did. I had a character who had nightmares - I'd
>mentioned this to my GM in the character description - and as the game
>progressed and the body count grew (among other things), they got really
>bad <snip>


That's about what I did. Grim has his "Ghosts". The first was his father,
and like your characters, as the body count grew, he collected more
"Ghosts".

The odd cold sweat in the night, a couple of nasty flashbacks, and other
such things sprinkled about gameplay got some great results from the GM. He
likes it when he can just give you stuff because you play the character. :)

Grim Shear
"Sometimes, late at night..."
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Message no. 15
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:54:47 +0200
According to Jill, at 13:50 on 2 Jul 00, the word on the street was...

> I eventually had to retire that character - she was going nuts, getting
> no sleep, and was getting to the point where she couldn't work. She
> sold off a whole bunch of stuff and took a six-month vacation. Then she
> stopped writing and I lost track of her :o)

Talking about that gamer psychology thread... ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Message no. 16
From: dbuehrer@******.carl.org dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 08:37:51 -0600
Necron wrote:
>I've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about power gaming,
>and a lot of them were negative, so I'm curious, how many here have played
>in a high powered campaign, not a normal one where you made a munchy
>character, but a truly high powered campaign?
>-Necron "If I hadn't killed him you would've!"

I have. Many years ago I played in a Fantasy Hero game that was a true
power game. The GM knowingly ran a power game in which the players had to
make power characters if they wanted any chance of surviving. And even
then there weren't any guarantees (my vampire character's encounter with an
angel did not end on a high note :).

Of course, Fantasy Hero lends itself to power gaming. One person made a
character that was a sentient mask that could possess people. He started
with a paladin as a pet. It was highly amusing when another PC defeated
the paladin, took the mask, and put it on (not knowing that the mask was
the real PC), and had his character possessed by the mask PC. The truly
sick part was that the mask granted it's wearer considerable power. That,
added to the power the possessed PC already had, made for a truly godlike
character. The GM killed him of course :)

And please note that the power level of the game was so high that
characters could be (and where) killed by a single stroke of an NPC. This
fostered roleplaying. It was one of the best roleplaying games I've ever
played in :) And that, IMHO, is the key to power gaming. Due to the power
levels involved and the megalomania of all the power characters (the NPCs
particularly) the threat of death should be significant enough to encourage
players to roleplay their way out of situations rather than fight their way
out.

YMMV.


To Life,
-Graht
http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3
--
"What you are doing at the moment must be exactly what
you are doing at the moment--and nothing else."
Message no. 17
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Power Gaming
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:56:47 -0400
>That's about what I did. Grim has his "Ghosts". The first was his father,
>and like your characters, as the body count grew, he collected more
>"Ghosts".
>
>The odd cold sweat in the night, a couple of nasty flashbacks, and other
>such things sprinkled about gameplay got some great results from the GM. He
>likes it when he can just give you stuff because you play the character. :)
>
>Grim Shear
>"Sometimes, late at night...


Tres "American Werewolf In London"... I love it! LoL! Wish I could remember
the line about his best friend spending eternity as a meatloaf...

Further Reading

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Thwap!