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Message no. 1
From: Jason Mulligan Jason Mulligan <manwe@*******.HNA.COM.AU>
Subject: Predator Stats
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 11:35:07 EST
So, here's what we have so far...

-
B: 9
Q: 12
S: 9

C: 2
I: 4
W: 4

R: 8+1D6 ???

Toys:
~~~~~
Metal Collapsable Spear*
Net-gun (metal net ?)
Shoulder Blaster
'Deadly Disc'*
Metal 'prong' darts*
Metal Spurs*
Helmet (which includes vision mods and breather)
Self Destruct mechanism (nuke?)
Body Armor (what rating?)

* All made of some wierd alien alloy which is extremely strong
-

So, with regard to reaction and initiative. Should the predator have
multiple dice OR just a high base initiative.

I think Im going to have to re-watch predator2 and take a few notes.


-
Jason Mulligan
E-Mail to: manwe@*******.hna.com.au

"The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe.
You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."
- Grand Moff Tarkin
Message no. 2
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Predator Stats (fwd)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:42:35 MET
>
> So, here's what we have so far...
> -
> B: 9
> Q: 12
> S: 9
Good.

> C: 2
Yes, he's not nice to talk with...

> I: 4
More. Something like 6 or 7. Remember that Int is not directly related to
intelligence but has something to do with awareness and perception. A good
hunting beast should have high int.

> W: 4
>
> R: 8+1D6 ???
More. With this reaction, he's dead meat against a average samurai.

> Toys:
> ~~~~~
> Body Armor (what rating?)
At least 3.

> So, with regard to reaction and initiative. Should the predator have
> multiple dice OR just a high base initiative.

Both. I'd say a 18+2D6. This number falls from the sky and it's not
related at any calc, but it is the minimum (init between 20 and 30) at
which someone can try to survive at least 1 round. Hey, my players have
3 or 4 dice (wired 3 or incr. react. or...). They (correctly) start from
the quote: "who shoots (manablasts, cuts, drops-building-on-enemy) first,
ALWAYS wins".

> I think Im going to have to re-watch predator2 and take a few notes.
Hey, I think I have only seen it twice... (run to the video rent..)

> Jason Mulligan
Bye, Paolo
--
________________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci
marcucci@***.ts.astro.it
http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci/home.html
"Reboot it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" - Gareth Owen :)
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Predator Stats
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:49:10 -0500
>>>>> "Jason" == Jason Mulligan Jason Mulligan
<manwe@*******.hna.com.au>
>>>>> writes:

Jason> Net-gun (metal net ?)

It's mono-wire, BTW.

Jason> 'Deadly Disc'*

Called a "smartdisc" because, well, it is.

Jason> Body Armor (what rating?)

Hmm... well, the stuff is made from Hard Meat ("Aliens") exoskeletons, so
figure from that.

Jason> So, with regard to reaction and initiative. Should the predator have
Jason> multiple dice OR just a high base initiative.

Both. Also, his Int should be higher, at least 5 or 6 for a blooded warrior.

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Message no. 4
From: Samuel Jones <sjones1@***.UNICOMP.NET>
Subject: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 01:04:53 CDT
I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit me
that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about making
or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? Maybe that cameleon
armor from Shadowtech(an advanced derivitive thereof) along with lasers,
optical sights, thermographic vision, low Charisma("you're an ugly son of a
b**ch"), high Body and Strength, etc.. Anybody? I'd love to send this
guy(or a party thereof) into my Seattle campaign and watch the runners try
to figure out what's going on and which corp(It never enters their minds as
to IF) is to blame. Add to that some other stuff(maybe an Alien or insect
spirit?) and I'll be making Paranoia look like child's play<evil insane grin>
Message no. 5
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 10:50:13 +0300
On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Samuel Jones wrote:

> I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit me
> that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about making
> or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? Maybe that cameleon
> armor
WHERE IS THAT ARMOR ? IN WHICH ACCESORRY????????????!!!!!!!!
from Shadowtech(an advanced derivitive thereof) along with lasers,
> optical sights, thermographic vision, low Charisma("you're an ugly son of a
> b**ch"), high Body and Strength, etc.. Anybody? I'd love to send this
> guy(or a party thereof) into my Seattle campaign and watch the runners try
> to figure out what's going on and which corp(It never enters their minds as
> to IF) is to blame. Add to that some other stuff(maybe an Alien or insect
> spirit?) and I'll be making Paranoia look like child's play<evil insane grin>
I think this guy is every street samurai Pcharacter in seatle
(heheheheheheh) ;) :)

I am the Way,the Truth and the Life (Gospel of john 14,6)
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:27:01 +0200
>I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit me
>that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about making
>or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun?

If I remember correctly, a little over a year ago people were making stats
for the Predator here on this list. I don't know if the logs still exist,
but you could check those if they do (no, I don't have them, and I also
haven't got the stats saved anywhere).


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 7
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:17:13 +0200
> > I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit me
> > that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about making
> > or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? Maybe that cameleon
> > armor
> WHERE IS THAT ARMOR ? IN WHICH ACCESORRY????????????!!!!!!!!

There is no "armor" they just imply that someone could use that stuff to
make a suit if I am not mistaken.

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Message no. 8
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 06:12:03 -0700
>
>> > I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit me
>> > that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about making
>> > or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? Maybe that cameleon
>> > armor
>> WHERE IS THAT ARMOR ? IN WHICH ACCESORRY????????????!!!!!!!!
>
> There is no "armor" they just imply that someone could use that stuff to
>make a suit if I am not mistaken.
>

The coating is what they are talking about. It's called Ruthenium (sp?), and
it's from the Shadowtech source book. But I haven't read it for a while, so
I don't know if it works exactly like the Predator "stealth" system.

Later.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 9
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 16:33:07 +0300
On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, WILLIAM FRIERSON wrote:

> >
> >> > I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit
me
> >> > that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about
making
> >> > or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? Maybe that
cameleon
> >> > armor
> >> WHERE IS THAT ARMOR ? IN WHICH ACCESORRY????????????!!!!!!!!
> >
> > There is no "armor" they just imply that someone could use that stuff
to
> >make a suit if I am not mistaken.
> >
>
> The coating is what they are talking about. It's called Ruthenium (sp?), and
> it's from the Shadowtech source book. But I haven't read it for a while, so
> I don't know if it works exactly like the Predator "stealth" system.
>
> Later.
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
THANKS A LOT
Message no. 10
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 10:22:44 -0400
Conversions have to be tailored to the power level of your campaign. A
yautja scaled to be competitive in a game without bioware or anything
better than standard-grade cyberwear is going to be a pushover in one in
which characters have access to cultured bioware and beta or better
cyber.

That aside, your average blooded yautja is fast, strong, tough, and
cunning. A seasoned warrior will be a bit slower but a whole heck of a
lot smarter.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 11
From: Ian Smith <KildTheCat@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 10:47:02 -0400
>> I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time >>when it hit me
>> that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody >>thought about
making
>> or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? >>Maybe that
cameleon
>> armor

>WHERE IS THAT ARMOR ? IN WHICH >ACCESORRY????????????!!!!!!!!

Actually I picked up SR stats for this pugugly off aol not a few days ago.
Except I don't know how to get it to y'all. If anyone can enlighten me on
how to move files though the 'net, then I'll go on ahead and get that to you.

The armor he was referring to isn't actually an armor, it's a very good
treatment applied to armor. The treatment is called "Ruthenium Fibers".
It's in Shadowtech. Basically it turns any normal suit of armor ( or
anything really ) into a chameleon, but it halves all your armor ratings.
That means even clad in full mil-spec or sec armor, your not protected much
better than you would be with non-camo *legal* armor . . .
Message no. 12
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 00:56:06 +0930
Ioannis Pantelidis wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Samuel Jones wrote:
>
> > I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit me
> > that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about making
> > or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? Maybe that cameleon
> > armor
> WHERE IS THAT ARMOR ? IN WHICH ACCESORRY????????????!!!!!!!!

Ruthenium Polymers, from ShadowTech. A material which can change to any
colour desired. Combined with an optical scanner system to sample the
nearby terrain, and layered over armour, it gives you a "chameleon suit".

However, it wouldn't be feasible for personal armour, in any (unknown)
terrain, due to the layout of the scanners. However, for a large vehicle,
or for armour in a friendly location (where the scanners can be
pre-placed), it would be suitable. Expensive, though, and "The gel packs
that power the chameleon uints are only good for about 30 minutes."
(According to the Hatchetman himself).

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 13
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:51:00 -0500
> Ruthenium Polymers, from ShadowTech. A material which can change to any
> colour desired. Combined with an optical scanner system to sample the
> nearby terrain, and layered over armour, it gives you a "chameleon suit".
>
> However, it wouldn't be feasible for personal armour, in any (unknown)
> terrain, due to the layout of the scanners. However, for a large vehicle,
> or for armour in a friendly location (where the scanners can be
> pre-placed), it would be suitable. Expensive, though, and "The gel packs
> that power the chameleon uints are only good for about 30 minutes."
> (According to the Hatchetman himself).

The scanners are very light wieght, and are integrated into the outfit. The
gel packs can be recharged, and any competent electronics tech can hook up
bigger bateries. For Snipers, an extension cord and your charging unit will
let you sit there all day. Not much good against thermo, sonar, or dual
presence critters, however.
Mongoose
Message no. 14
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 16:06:57 -0500
>
> The armor he was referring to isn't actually an armor, it's a very good
> treatment applied to armor. The treatment is called "Ruthenium Fibers".
> It's in Shadowtech. Basically it turns any normal suit of armor ( or
> anything really ) into a chameleon, but it halves all your armor ratings.
> That means even clad in full mil-spec or sec armor, your not protected much
> better than you would be with non-camo *legal* armor . . .
>
The solution for that is to buy something big and loose you can wear over
your armor, and put the stealth tech into that. I Kinda like the london fog
cloak I have. More expensive, and once you start fighting, you gotta open the
front, but at least you ain't a camoflaged sieve.
Mongoose

Typical outfit; form 3, armor jacket, ruthenium london fog cloak with 6
scanners. Armor; 5/3 + .5 (4/1 + .5 (2/2))= 7/4, total balistic 11 is less
than quickness, so no combat pool penalty. Oh, and 9 dice for urban stealth.
Message no. 15
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 16:16:42 -0500
>
> > > I was just watching Predator on TV for the umpteenth time when it hit me
> > > that here was the perfect Shadowrun NPC! Has anybody thought about making
> > > or converting a Predator character over into Shadowrun? Maybe that
cameleon
> > > armor
> > WHERE IS THAT ARMOR ? IN WHICH ACCESORRY????????????!!!!!!!!
>
> There is no "armor" they just imply that someone could use that stuff to
> make a suit if I am not mistaken.
>

There was that rediculous aracnho weave stealth suit in one of the NAGEE's.
Sorry if the inventor is reading this, but it was a bit much for our campaign
to swallow. I believe it had like 8/8 HARDENED value (except some wierd blunt
trauma rules). That is the only real stealth armor I know of. Would't a
cloak type thing be better anyhow, so yopu can cover all your eqiopment and
gear? Not many ruthenium coated pistol and holster rigs out there, I think.
Message no. 16
From: Samuel Jones <sjones1@***.UNICOMP.NET>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 21:59:01 CDT
>Conversions have to be tailored to the power level of your campaign. A
>yautja scaled to be competitive in a game without bioware or anything
>better than standard-grade cyberwear is going to be a pushover in one in
>which characters have access to cultured bioware and beta or better
>cyber.
>
>That aside, your average blooded yautja is fast, strong, tough, and
>cunning. A seasoned warrior will be a bit slower but a whole heck of a
>lot smarter.
>
I hate to sound stupid, but what the heck is a yautja?
Message no. 17
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:59:38 +0930
Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>
> The scanners are very light wieght, and are integrated into the outfit.

Says you... I have it slightly different. It's not the WEIGHT that counts,
it's the positioning... you aren't going to get _full surround information_
on a person. (And since when were wide-angle cameras light weight, anyway?)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 18
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 05:09:23 -0700
>
>Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>>
>> The scanners are very light wieght, and are integrated into the outfit.
>
>Says you... I have it slightly different. It's not the WEIGHT that counts,
>it's the positioning... you aren't going to get _full surround information_
>on a person. (And since when were wide-angle cameras light weight, anyway?)
>

They have wide angle lenses built right onto chips, as of 2 years ago (in
Britain). This is in real life. Think what 60 years of advancement would do.
If you can interface electronic circuits with brains, I doubt that a small,
wide-angle lens is going to be a problem.

Later

>--
> Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
> Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
> are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
> *** Finger me for my geek code ***
>
>

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 19
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 09:58:34 -0400
>>>>> "Samuel" == Samuel Jones <sjones1@***.UNICOMP.NET>
writes:

Samuel> I hate to sound stupid, but what the heck is a yautja?

It's what that particular species calls itself.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ of skin.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 20
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 10:12:25 -0400
On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:

> Typical outfit; form 3, armor jacket, ruthenium london fog cloak with 6
> scanners. Armor; 5/3 + .5 (4/1 + .5 (2/2))= 7/4, total balistic 11 is less
> than quickness, so no combat pool penalty. Oh, and 9 dice for urban stealth.

I have many problems with this, though most are purely from a
"by-the-book" rules stance.
1. The section on Ruthenium polymers in Shadowtech implies that
the scanners are emplaced rather than built into the garment. This would
make sense as they know what the scene looks like without the object and
thus have a better chance to effectively camouflage the suit. If you
make the assumption that the technology is sufficient to build small,
effective, light-weight scanners into the garment, then you're golden.
The scanners probably aren't covered with the polymer, however, and thus
you have something on your suit that is not camoflaged and may be very
obvious depending on the size and number of scanners.
2. You are layering three pieces of armor. I see by your
calculations that you are layering in stages so you only get a quarter of
the third piece, which is a pretty spiffy way to do it, but technically only
two pieces can be layered. But hey, your house, your rules.
3. The ballistic armor rating is 7, not 11 (you don't add the
two), and the point is moot because a reduction in quickness only comes
from *heavy* armors. Now granted, three layers may be a tad on the bulky
side, so you may want to treat it as heavy armor, but you don't have to.
Again, your house, your rules.
4. It says something under the section on the polymers about
reducing the armor rating due to heat. I don't remember the amount right
off hand, but it seems as though it might have been as much as half.

While this is a cool idea, I would not allow it. Or rather I
would allow it, but with more limitations and less total armor value

Marc
Message no. 21
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 12:31:10 -0500
>
> On Mon, 10 Jul 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>
> > Typical outfit; form 3, armor jacket, ruthenium london fog cloak with 6
> > scanners. Armor; 5/3 + .5 (4/1 + .5 (2/2))= 7/4, total balistic 11 is less
> > than quickness, so no combat pool penalty. Oh, and 9 dice for urban stealth.
>
> I have many problems with this, though most are purely from a
> "by-the-book" rules stance.
> 1. The section on Ruthenium polymers in Shadowtech implies that
> the scanners are emplaced rather than built into the garment. This would
> make sense as they know what the scene looks like without the object and
> thus have a better chance to effectively camouflage the suit. If you
> make the assumption that the technology is sufficient to build small,
> effective, light-weight scanners into the garment, then you're golden.
> The scanners probably aren't covered with the polymer, however, and thus
> you have something on your suit that is not camoflaged and may be very
> obvious depending on the size and number of scanners.
Hmm, never really thought about that. Stationary scanners seem pretty
useless, And i would figure a few imiging chips as pretty tough to notice.
Those scanners are 5000 a piece- a lot more than a camera.
> 2. You are layering three pieces of armor. I see by your
> calculations that you are layering in stages so you only get a quarter of
> the third piece, which is a pretty spiffy way to do it, but technically only
> two pieces can be layered. But hey, your house, your rules.
Actually, the third piece (the cloak), was reduced because of the ruthenium
built into it (the circuitry mucks with the Kevlar weave). But, yeah, often I
don't count it at all.
> 3. The ballistic armor rating is 7, not 11 (you don't add the
> two), and the point is moot because a reduction in quickness only comes
> from *heavy* armors. Now granted, three layers may be a tad on the bulky
> side, so you may want to treat it as heavy armor, but you don't have to.
> Again, your house, your rules.
This is our house rule: wear as much armor as you want. You get the
protection of the best, plus 1/2 the rest. Tota up all the unmodified
ballistic (or impact ) values, and if it excedes your quickness, reduce combat
pool as per heavy armor. I wasn't aware that any armor layering outside of
the specific NAGRL outfits was anything but a house rule.
> 4. It says something under the section on the polymers about
> reducing the armor rating due to heat. I don't remember the amount right
> off hand, but it seems as though it might have been as much as half.
The polymers reduce the value of the armor you build them in. That was the
point of this getup- wear one really big cloak over all your real, unmodified
armor.
> While this is a cool idea, I would not allow it. Or rather I
> would allow it, but with more limitations and less total armor value
>
> Marc
>
Hell, half the time i'm afraid to go out wearind a 50,000 (before street
index !) cloak.
Message no. 22
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Predator stats?
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 21:25:48 +0930
WILLIAM FRIERSON wrote:
>
> They have wide angle lenses built right onto chips, as of 2 years ago (in
> Britain). This is in real life. Think what 60 years of advancement would do.
> If you can interface electronic circuits with brains, I doubt that a small,
> wide-angle lens is going to be a problem.

Really? Hmm... didn't know that. My (limited) knowledge of optics suggested
a minimum size.

With that restriction gone, I remove my objection, but point out that there
are still some severe practical difficutlties. (Such as what do you do
about the view from straight above... :) )

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***

Further Reading

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Thwap!