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Message no. 1
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:15:58 -0500
Ok, here they are, Tell me what I need to fix (Gurth, when the stats are
finalized I'll add some IC text to it and send it to you, okies?)

Note: I used a military Mark up of x5 ... if you don't think that's
appropriate, explain :)

CAS "Stonewall" LABT (Low Altitude Battle Tank)
Handling Speed Accel Body Armor Sig
5 150/650 40 6 20 3
Autonav Pilot Sensor Cargo Load
4 - 8 0 4000

Seating: 1 ejection Setup/Breakdown: NA
Entry Points: 1h + 1d +1r Landing/Takeoff: VSTOL
Fuel: Jet (8,000 liters) Economy: .3 km/liter
Point Value: 46,229.58 Cost: 69,345,000
Template: Thunderbird Reference: RBB
Other Features:
Datajack Port
ECM 8, ECCM 8
ED 5, ECD 5
Medium AA turret (mounting 120 mm Railgun [stats = Relampago] with room
for 162 rounds + a Victory Assault Cannon with room for 602 rounds both
with smartlink II integration)
RAM 3
Rigger Adaptation
Smart Materials

Ok ... The Econ may be a bit high but I think it NEEDs it ... I wasn't
sure how space the ammo took up also, if it's not 1 CF per 20 rounds for
both weapons, this bugger I'll have to adjust the CF ... Can anyone find
it in R2? I can't :(

Also does the Armament make sense? additionally, I ma need to up the
crew (though 1 rigger COULD manage ...)

All-in-all, what do you think?

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

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Message no. 2
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:12:56 EDT
In a message dated 7/18/1998 5:56:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Ok, here they are, Tell me what I need to fix (Gurth, when the stats are
> finalized I'll add some IC text to it and send it to you, okies?)
>
> Note: I used a military Mark up of x5 ... if you don't think that's
> appropriate, explain :)

Sounds okay to me ... for something cutting edge, it would have to be
expensive.

> CAS "Stonewall" LABT (Low Altitude Battle Tank)
> Handling Speed Accel Body Armor Sig
> 5 150/650 40 6 20 3
> Autonav Pilot Sensor Cargo Load
> 4 - 8 0 4000
>
> Seating: 1 ejection Setup/Breakdown: NA

Only one person flying and doing everything for this thing ... did you
consider adding in a gunner and a seat for a mage ?!? Or is the gunner
replaced by a variant Sentry Gun system which takes of all of the firing of
the onboard weapon systems?

> Entry Points: 1h + 1d +1r Landing/Takeoff: VSTOL
> Fuel: Jet (8,000 liters) Economy: .3 km/liter
> Point Value: 46,229.58 Cost: 69,345,000
> Template: Thunderbird Reference: RBB
> Other Features:
> Datajack Port
> ECM 8, ECCM 8
> ED 5, ECD 5
> Medium AA turret (mounting 120 mm Railgun [stats = Relampago] with room
> for 162 rounds + a Victory Assault Cannon with room for 602 rounds both
> with smartlink II integration)
> RAM 3
> Rigger Adaptation
> Smart Materials
>
> Ok ... The Econ may be a bit high but I think it NEEDs it ... I wasn't
> sure how space the ammo took up also, if it's not 1 CF per 20 rounds for
> both weapons, this bugger I'll have to adjust the CF ... Can anyone find
> it in R2? I can't :(

No, an economy of 0.3 is something I consider excepatable for this thing. I
try to max the fuel economy whenever I can, this way fuel costs are relatively
lower per kilometer of travel.

> Also does the Armament make sense? additionally, I ma need to up the
> crew (though 1 rigger COULD manage ...)

The Relampago (let's call it that), could fit on it's own in a medium turret
mounted topside. The Victory could be in an undermount small turret on it's
own.

Did you consider Drive-By-Wire to enhance the Handling ?

How about Structural Agility to give the rigger(s) onboard a slight edge over
their opposition?

It has a good armor rating.

There is not much else I can think of at the moment, but it looks good so far.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 3
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:28:35 -0500
On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:12:56 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 7/18/1998 5:56:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>> Ok, here they are, Tell me what I need to fix (Gurth, when the stats
are
>> finalized I'll add some IC text to it and send it to you, okies?)
>>
>> Note: I used a military Mark up of x5 ... if you don't think that's
>> appropriate, explain :)

>Sounds okay to me ... for something cutting edge, it would have to be
>expensive.

That's what I thought ... also, it had so many "Adding this to a vehicle
makes it Security/Military Grade" type features :)

>> CAS "Stonewall" LABT (Low Altitude Battle Tank)
>> Handling Speed Accel Body Armor Sig
>> 5 150/650 40 6 20 3
>> Autonav Pilot Sensor Cargo Load
>> 4 - 8 0 4000
>>
>> Seating: 1 ejection Setup/Breakdown: NA

>Only one person flying and doing everything for this thing ... did you
>consider adding in a gunner and a seat for a mage ?!? Or is the gunner
>replaced by a variant Sentry Gun system which takes of all of the firing
of
>the onboard weapon systems?

Well ....
1) This thing has Rigger Adaptation so 1 Rigger could possible "do it
all"
2) I was going to mess with adding crew after I got everything (Like
weapon systems) finalized ... I was thinking 1 Rigger (Pilot) + 1 Rigger
(Gunner) + 1 Rigger (Electronics) ... does it need anybody else? ( I may
add some extra room for back up personel and/or troops ...)

>> Entry Points: 1h + 1d +1r Landing/Takeoff: VSTOL
>> Fuel: Jet (8,000 liters) Economy: .3 km/liter
>> Point Value: 46,229.58 Cost: 69,345,000
>> Template: Thunderbird Reference: RBB
>> Other Features:
>> Datajack Port
>> ECM 8, ECCM 8
>> ED 5, ECD 5

Is it overkill/redundant to include BOTH ECM/ECCM & ED/ECD suites in this
thing? Now that I think about it the ED could be used to make it look
like it was the bigger ground MBT ...

>> Medium AA turret (mounting 120 mm Railgun [stats = Relampago] with
room
>> for 162 rounds + a Victory Assault Cannon with room for 602 rounds
both
>> with smartlink II integration)

Okay someone somewhere (I think it was Gurth on RN but could have been
someone on IRC) mentioned that tanks to now carry 40-50 rounds of their
main guns ... so I'll change the 120 mm Railgun ammo to that ...

>> RAM 3
>> Rigger Adaptation
>> Smart Materials
>>
>> Ok ... The Econ may be a bit high but I think it NEEDs it ... I
wasn't
>> sure how space the ammo took up also, if it's not 1 CF per 20 rounds
for
>> both weapons, this bugger I'll have to adjust the CF ... Can anyone
find
>> it in R2? I can't :(

>No, an economy of 0.3 is something I consider excepatable for this
thing. I
>try to max the fuel economy whenever I can, this way fuel costs are
relatively
>lower per kilometer of travel.

>> Also does the Armament make sense? additionally, I ma need to up the
>> crew (though 1 rigger COULD manage ...)

>The Relampago (let's call it that), could fit on it's own in a medium
turret
>mounted topside. The Victory could be in an undermount small turret on
it's
>own.

Well, the idea was that there was a ground-based MBT (Tracked) that had a
similar appearance ...

>Did you consider Drive-By-Wire to enhance the Handling ?

Hmmmm... Drive-By-Wire can by installed in LAVs? Now that you mention
it, they don't make special mention of Fly-By-Wire ... I would have
thought it was already "built-in" to one degree or another ...

>How about Structural Agility to give the rigger(s) onboard a slight edge
over
>their opposition?

Well, first I had to realize that Drive-By-Wire could be installed :)

>It has a good armor rating.

Only slightly better than a Banshee ...

>There is not much else I can think of at the moment, but it looks good
>so far.
>
>-Herc
>-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

Thanks for the input. :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:32:09 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/98 10:03:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >> Note: I used a military Mark up of x5 ... if you don't think that's
> >> appropriate, explain :)
>
> >Sounds okay to me ... for something cutting edge, it would have to be
> >expensive.
>
> That's what I thought ... also, it had so many "Adding this to a vehicle
> makes it Security/Military Grade" type features :)

Yuppers.

> >> CAS "Stonewall" LABT (Low Altitude Battle Tank)
> >> Handling Speed Accel Body Armor Sig
> >> 5 150/650 40 6 20 3
> >> Autonav Pilot Sensor Cargo Load
> >> 4 - 8 0 4000
> >>
> >> Seating: 1 ejection Setup/Breakdown: NA
>
> >Only one person flying and doing everything for this thing ... did you
> >consider adding in a gunner and a seat for a mage ?!? Or is the gunner
> >replaced by a variant Sentry Gun system which takes of all of the firing
> of
> >the onboard weapon systems?
>
> Well ....
> 1) This thing has Rigger Adaptation so 1 Rigger could possible "do it
> all"
> 2) I was going to mess with adding crew after I got everything (Like
> weapon systems) finalized ... I was thinking 1 Rigger (Pilot) + 1 Rigger
> (Gunner) + 1 Rigger (Electronics) ... does it need anybody else? ( I may
> add some extra room for back up personel and/or troops ...)

The rigger who is also the gunner could double as the Electronics slot, but
the MBT would need a Mage Seat.

> >> Entry Points: 1h + 1d +1r Landing/Takeoff: VSTOL
> >> Fuel: Jet (8,000 liters) Economy: .3 km/liter
> >> Point Value: 46,229.58 Cost: 69,345,000
> >> Template: Thunderbird Reference: RBB
> >> Other Features:
> >> Datajack Port
> >> ECM 8, ECCM 8
> >> ED 5, ECD 5
>
> Is it overkill/redundant to include BOTH ECM/ECCM & ED/ECD suites in this
> thing? Now that I think about it the ED could be used to make it look
> like it was the bigger ground MBT ...

Nope, but perhaps taking the ECD and ED might be something which is capable of
being added to it later. Maybe the MBT has a modular sensor array space.
This way any of the sensors of an MBT can be altered depending on the mission
at hand.

> >> Medium AA turret (mounting 120 mm Railgun [stats = Relampago] with
> room
> >> for 162 rounds + a Victory Assault Cannon with room for 602 rounds
> both
> >> with smartlink II integration)
>
> Okay someone somewhere (I think it was Gurth on RN but could have been
> someone on IRC) mentioned that tanks to now carry 40-50 rounds of their
> main guns ... so I'll change the 120 mm Railgun ammo to that ...

Personally, I'd stick with what you have. First because the rules say you
can. Second, a modern day tank round has nothing in comparison to a railgun
round.

> >> RAM 3
> >> Rigger Adaptation
> >> Smart Materials
> >>
> >> Ok ... The Econ may be a bit high but I think it NEEDs it ... I
> wasn't
> >> sure how space the ammo took up also, if it's not 1 CF per 20 rounds
> for
> >> both weapons, this bugger I'll have to adjust the CF ... Can anyone
> find
> >> it in R2? I can't :(
>
> >No, an economy of 0.3 is something I consider excepatable for this
> thing. I
> >try to max the fuel economy whenever I can, this way fuel costs are
> relatively
> >lower per kilometer of travel.
>
> >> Also does the Armament make sense? additionally, I ma need to up the
> >> crew (though 1 rigger COULD manage ...)
>
> >The Relampago (let's call it that), could fit on it's own in a medium
> turret
> >mounted topside. The Victory could be in an undermount small turret on
> it's
> >own.
>
> Well, the idea was that there was a ground-based MBT (Tracked) that had a
> similar appearance ...

I agree, it could have the same appearance, except remember that the MBT is
going to be flying over things, and having an undermount turret enable the MBT
to engage that target when the upper turret is no longer capable of firing at
the target (except through the MBT itself to get to the target.

> >Did you consider Drive-By-Wire to enhance the Handling ?
>
> Hmmmm... Drive-By-Wire can by installed in LAVs? Now that you mention
> it, they don't make special mention of Fly-By-Wire ... I would have
> thought it was already "built-in" to one degree or another ...

There is no rule exception for Banshees and the like this time around when it
comes to Drive-By-Wire.

> >How about Structural Agility to give the rigger(s) onboard a slight edge
> over
> >their opposition?
>
> Well, first I had to realize that Drive-By-Wire could be installed :)

Ok.

> >It has a good armor rating.
>
> Only slightly better than a Banshee ...
>
> >There is not much else I can think of at the moment, but it looks good
> >so far.
> >
> >-Herc
> >-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> Thanks for the input. :)
>
You are welcome.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 5
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:32:04 -0500
On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:32:09 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 7/20/98 10:03:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>
<SNIP>
>> >> Seating: 1 ejection Setup/Breakdown: NA
>>
>> >Only one person flying and doing everything for this thing ... did
you
>> >consider adding in a gunner and a seat for a mage ?!? Or is the
gunner
>> >replaced by a variant Sentry Gun system which takes of all of the
firing of
>> >the onboard weapon systems?

>> Well ....
>> 1) This thing has Rigger Adaptation so 1 Rigger could possible "do it
all"
>> 2) I was going to mess with adding crew after I got everything (Like
>> weapon systems) finalized ... I was thinking 1 Rigger (Pilot) + 1
Rigger
>> (Gunner) + 1 Rigger (Electronics) ... does it need anybody else? (I
may
>> add some extra room for back up personel and/or troops ...)

>The rigger who is also the gunner could double as the Electronics slot,
but
>the MBT would need a Mage Seat.

Btw, I forgot that apparently a medium turret gives you seating for 2 & 4
CF of additional space ... *loads spreadsheet* ACK!!!! I also forgot to
add in the costs of the Turret! overspent 12 CF!!! not good ...

<SNIP>
>> >> ECM 8, ECCM 8
>> >> ED 5, ECD 5

>> Is it overkill/redundant to include BOTH ECM/ECCM & ED/ECD suites in
this
>> thing? Now that I think about it the ED could be used to make it
look
>> like it was the bigger ground MBT ...

>Nope, but perhaps taking the ECD and ED might be something which is
capable of
>being added to it later. Maybe the MBT has a modular sensor array
space.
>This way any of the sensors of an MBT can be altered depending on the
mission
>at hand.

>> >> Medium AA turret (mounting 120 mm Railgun [stats = Relampago] with
room
>> >> for 162 rounds + a Victory Assault Cannon with room for 602 rounds
both
>> >> with smartlink II integration)

>> Okay someone somewhere (I think it was Gurth on RN but could have been
>> someone on IRC) mentioned that tanks to now carry 40-50 rounds of
their
>> main guns ... so I'll change the 120 mm Railgun ammo to that ...

>Personally, I'd stick with what you have. First because the rules say
you
>can. Second, a modern day tank round has nothing in comparison to a
railgun
>round.

Hmmmm ... I will have to change this in order to make up for the turret
boo-boo :/

<SNIP>
>> >> Also does the Armament make sense? additionally, I ma need to up
the
>> >> crew (though 1 rigger COULD manage ...)

>> >The Relampago (let's call it that), could fit on it's own in a medium

>> >turret
>> >mounted topside. The Victory could be in an undermount small turret
on
>> >it's
>> >own.

>> Well, the idea was that there was a ground-based MBT (Tracked) that
had a
>> similar appearance ...

>I agree, it could have the same appearance, except remember that the MBT
is
>going to be flying over things, and having an undermount turret enable
the MBT
>to engage that target when the upper turret is no longer capable of
firing at
>the target (except through the MBT itself to get to the target.

Yes, but if the Ground based MBT has a large turret based armament, and
the LAV doesn't, won't marr the effect?

>> >Did you consider Drive-By-Wire to enhance the Handling ?

>> Hmmmm... Drive-By-Wire can by installed in LAVs? Now that you
mention
>> it, they don't make special mention of Fly-By-Wire ... I would have
>> thought it was already "built-in" to one degree or another ...

>There is no rule exception for Banshees and the like this time around
when it
>comes to Drive-By-Wire.

Oh well ... btw, aren't Tanks -Supposed- to be hard to drive? (and even
harder to fly ;)

<SNIP>
>-Herc
>-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

The Best Mechanic I can ever have? What? Do you do good work for free?
;P

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:11:15 +0100
Alfredo B Alves said on 9:28/20 Jul 98,...

> Well ....
> 1) This thing has Rigger Adaptation so 1 Rigger could possible "do it
> all"

This would mean that that one rigger has to divide his or her
attention over all kinds of tasks, giving a distinct disadvantage
compared to a vehicle with different crewmembers for different
tasks.

> 2) I was going to mess with adding crew after I got everything (Like
> weapon systems) finalized ... I was thinking 1 Rigger (Pilot) + 1 Rigger
> (Gunner) + 1 Rigger (Electronics) ... does it need anybody else? ( I may
> add some extra room for back up personel and/or troops ...)

A commander, who coordinates everything.

> Is it overkill/redundant to include BOTH ECM/ECCM & ED/ECD suites in this
> thing? Now that I think about it the ED could be used to make it look
> like it was the bigger ground MBT ...

Could be done, but I guess it would make the tank draw more
attention to itself...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sarcasm -- it's a great way to deal.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:44:53 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/98 12:40:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >In a message dated 7/20/98 10:03:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> >dghost@****.COM writes:
> >
> <SNIP>
> >The rigger who is also the gunner could double as the Electronics slot,
> but
> >the MBT would need a Mage Seat.
>
> Btw, I forgot that apparently a medium turret gives you seating for 2 & 4
> CF of additional space ... *loads spreadsheet* ACK!!!! I also forgot to
> add in the costs of the Turret! overspent 12 CF!!! not good ...

You can always change the turret into a Remote Medium Turret, and this way you
will not have overspent on the CF for the MBT. A note, this is going to add
100 design points to the overall dp of the MBT.

> >I agree, it could have the same appearance, except remember that the MBT
> is
> >going to be flying over things, and having an undermount turret enable
> the MBT
> >to engage that target when the upper turret is no longer capable of
> firing at
> >the target (except through the MBT itself to get to the target.
>
> Yes, but if the Ground based MBT has a large turret based armament, and
> the LAV doesn't, won't marr the effect?

True, but a land tank does not have to worry to often about having to shoot at
something underneath it like a true panzer would have to.

Note, you could replace the Relampago with a Victory Rotary Assault Cannon and
add in a Firelance Laser Cannon onto the Medium Turret, and give the lower
turret a Victory Rotary Laser Autocannon also.

> >> >Did you consider Drive-By-Wire to enhance the Handling ?
>
> >> Hmmmm... Drive-By-Wire can by installed in LAVs? Now that you
> mention
> >> it, they don't make special mention of Fly-By-Wire ... I would have
> >> thought it was already "built-in" to one degree or another ...
>
> >There is no rule exception for Banshees and the like this time around
> when it
> >comes to Drive-By-Wire.
>
> Oh well ... btw, aren't Tanks -Supposed- to be hard to drive? (and even
> harder to fly ;)

True, but these things are meant to be something people should be afraid of
and not making comments about it corners like a 20-ton brick on rails.

> <SNIP>
> >-Herc
> >-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> The Best Mechanic I can ever have? What? Do you do good work for free?

No, but I get it done faster and within budget more than other mechanics. And
if the price is right, a total refit will be performed which -will- bring your
vehicle completely up to SOTA and slightly beyond, if the price is right, of
course, or if the need is that great. Not bad for a Mechanic who uses magic,
rituals, and tech to fix just about anything put in front of him.

If he's too expensive then you could probably hire his drone mechanics, they
do the job just as well, they just take a lot longer to do it.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 8
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:47:22 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/98 1:13:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

> > Well ....
> > 1) This thing has Rigger Adaptation so 1 Rigger could possible "do it
> > all"
>
> This would mean that that one rigger has to divide his or her
> attention over all kinds of tasks, giving a distinct disadvantage
> compared to a vehicle with different crewmembers for different
> tasks.

Ah, someone said it better than I had.

> > 2) I was going to mess with adding crew after I got everything (Like
> > weapon systems) finalized ... I was thinking 1 Rigger (Pilot) + 1 Rigger
> > (Gunner) + 1 Rigger (Electronics) ... does it need anybody else? ( I may
> > add some extra room for back up personel and/or troops ...)
>
> A commander, who coordinates everything.

And don't forget to toss in a mage into this morass.

> > Is it overkill/redundant to include BOTH ECM/ECCM & ED/ECD suites in this
> > thing? Now that I think about it the ED could be used to make it look
> > like it was the bigger ground MBT ...
>
> Could be done, but I guess it would make the tank draw more
> attention to itself...

Not to mention it also drives the cost of the MBT even higher thanks to the dp
for ED and ECD. You could probably make do with Sensors and ECM/ECCM. And
let some other vehicle carry the ED and ECD.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 9
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:35:22 -0500
On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:44:53 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 7/20/98 12:40:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>> <SNIP>
>> >The rigger who is also the gunner could double as the Electronics
slot, but
>> >the MBT would need a Mage Seat.

>> Btw, I forgot that apparently a medium turret gives you seating for 2
& 4
>> CF of additional space ... *loads spreadsheet* ACK!!!! I also forgot
to
>> add in the costs of the Turret! overspent 12 CF!!! not good ...

>You can always change the turret into a Remote Medium Turret, and this
way you
>will not have overspent on the CF for the MBT. A note, this is going to
add
>100 design points to the overall dp of the MBT.

Doh! :) That'll fix it :)

>> >I agree, it could have the same appearance, except remember that the
MBT is
>> >going to be flying over things, and having an undermount turret
enable the
>> >MBT
>> >to engage that target when the upper turret is no longer capable of
firing
>> >at
>> >the target (except through the MBT itself to get to the target.

>> Yes, but if the Ground based MBT has a large turret based armament,
and
>> the LAV doesn't, won't marr the effect?

>True, but a land tank does not have to worry to often about having to
shoot at
>something underneath it like a true panzer would have to.

When designing this, the primary purpose was to design a LAV that would
make enemy intelligence think that the CAS had a true LAV MBT ... IMO,
for this task, the weapon should be as I posted them... :) For a LAV that
was meant to be an actual frontlines combat vehicle, what you proposed
would be better :)

>Note, you could replace the Relampago with a Victory Rotary Assault
Cannon and
>add in a Firelance Laser Cannon onto the Medium Turret, and give the
lower
>turret a Victory Rotary Laser Autocannon also.

Nope ... No can do ... That would require 5 Hardpoints (3 for the Medium
Turret, 2 for the Small ... LAVs, being body 6 only have 3 available
which was used up by the Medium Turret :/

For a LAV Tank, you may see a Small turret with an Autocannon or vehicle
laser and then an underbelly mini turret with a AVM/AVR launcher ...

<SNIP>
>> <SNIP>
>> >-Herc
>> >-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

>> The Best Mechanic I can ever have? What? Do you do good work for
free?

>No, but I get it done faster and within budget more than other
mechanics. And
>if the price is right, a total refit will be performed which -will-
bring your
>vehicle completely up to SOTA and slightly beyond, if the price is
right, of
>course, or if the need is that great. Not bad for a Mechanic who uses
magic,
>rituals, and tech to fix just about anything put in front of him.

"Yer Engine Blocks Busted ... That'll 5k for the ussual praying, and 2k
for the ussual saccrifice ... you'll have to supply the chicken, though
..."
;)

>If he's too expensive then you could probably hire his drone mechanics,
they
>do the job just as well, they just take a lot longer to do it.
>
>-Herc
>------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

What do use? Anthroforms?

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 10
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:36:54 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/1998 4:40:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >If he's too expensive then you could probably hire his drone mechanics,
> they
> >do the job just as well, they just take a lot longer to do it.
> >
> >-Herc
> >------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> What do use? Anthroforms?
>
I can say that -yes- he uses Anthroforms. I have been having a LOT of
problems keeping up with him (Mike) of late, as he's gotten "Small Soldiers"
stuck in his brainpan.

Imagine combing Knowsofts and Activesofts with Drones as additional "Pilot
Programming" if you will. Then make them all somewhat foldupable, as I seem
to recall (as Binder in the game), Herc carries them around as suitcases, one
per drone in this case.

-K
Message no. 11
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:56:25 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/98 4:46:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:44:53 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
> >In a message dated 7/20/98 12:40:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> >dghost@****.COM writes:

> >> >I agree, it could have the same appearance, except remember that the
> MBT is
> >> >going to be flying over things, and having an undermount turret
> enable the
> >> >MBT
> >> >to engage that target when the upper turret is no longer capable of
> firing
> >> >at
> >> >the target (except through the MBT itself to get to the target.
>
> >> Yes, but if the Ground based MBT has a large turret based armament,
> and
> >> the LAV doesn't, won't marr the effect?
>
> >True, but a land tank does not have to worry to often about having to
> shoot at
> >something underneath it like a true panzer would have to.
>
> When designing this, the primary purpose was to design a LAV that would
> make enemy intelligence think that the CAS had a true LAV MBT ... IMO,
> for this task, the weapon should be as I posted them... :) For a LAV that
> was meant to be an actual frontlines combat vehicle, what you proposed
> would be better :)

Ah .. something I did here in the home game is that the CAS has a few (less
than 25 Stonewall MBTs) ... they then modified and altered the external
appearance of Banshees to look like the CAS had more Stonewalls than they
really do.

> >Note, you could replace the Relampago with a Victory Rotary Assault
> Cannon and
> >add in a Firelance Laser Cannon onto the Medium Turret, and give the
> lower
> >turret a Victory Rotary Laser Autocannon also.
>
> Nope ... No can do ... That would require 5 Hardpoints (3 for the Medium
> Turret, 2 for the Small ... LAVs, being body 6 only have 3 available
> which was used up by the Medium Turret :/
>
> For a LAV Tank, you may see a Small turret with an Autocannon or vehicle
> laser and then an underbelly mini turret with a AVM/AVR launcher ...

Okay, guys, something I am pulling in from another game for this, anyone
remember Traveller 2000 ?!? When it comes to putting weapons onto vehicles,
the military are able to put more onto their vehicles because the vehicles are
designed with the idea of having weapons onn board. Civilian vehicles, which
are not originally intended for weapon use, do not have the ability to carry
as many weapons as a military vehicle.

We here in Lafayette use the following formula for hardpoints ...

Civilian : 1 Hardpoint per 2 Body points
Security : 1 Hardpoint per 1.5 Body points
Military : 1 Hardpoint per (1) Body point

> <SNIP>
> >> <SNIP>
> >> >-Herc
> >> >-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> >> The Best Mechanic I can ever have? What? Do you do good work for
> free?
>
> >No, but I get it done faster and within budget more than other
> mechanics. And
> >if the price is right, a total refit will be performed which -will-
> bring your
> >vehicle completely up to SOTA and slightly beyond, if the price is
> right, of
> >course, or if the need is that great. Not bad for a Mechanic who uses
> magic,
> >rituals, and tech to fix just about anything put in front of him.
>
> "Yer Engine Blocks Busted ... That'll 5k for the ussual praying, and 2k
> for the ussual saccrifice ... you'll have to supply the chicken, though
> ..."
> ;)

Nope, no chicken for the sacrifice, but if you bring some food along for him I
may charge you less.

> >If he's too expensive then you could probably hire his drone mechanics,
> they
> >do the job just as well, they just take a lot longer to do it.
> >
> >-Herc
> >------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> What do use? Anthroforms?

Nope ... a combination of Walkers and Modified Steel Lynxes. The Walkers are
mostly of the Body 0 or 1 type, and they are the actual mechanics, tool belts
included. The Steel Lynxes are the coordinators and straw bosses. There is
even a specially modified van which carries them (enough for 2 crews of them
... 1 Steel Lynx and 8 Walker 0's per crew), and I call them the Keystone
Mechanics.

Although the Keystone Mechanics can't compete with Herc's other b/r / research
& development team ... nicknamed the Vorlons because they are always walking
around in oversized envirosuits.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 12
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:07:10 -0500
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:56:25 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 7/20/98 4:46:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:44:53 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
writes:
>> >In a message dated 7/20/98 12:40:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>> >dghost@****.COM writes:
>> >> >I agree, it could have the same appearance, except remember that
the MBT
>> >> >is
>> >> >going to be flying over things, and having an undermount turret
enable
>> >> >the MBT
>> >> >to engage that target when the upper turret is no longer capable
of
>> >> >firing at
>> >> >the target (except through the MBT itself to get to the target.

>> >> Yes, but if the Ground based MBT has a large turret based
armament,
>> >>and
>> >> the LAV doesn't, won't marr the effect?

>> >True, but a land tank does not have to worry to often about having to
>> >shoot at
>> >something underneath it like a true panzer would have to.

>>When designing this, the primary purpose was to design a LAV that would
>>make enemy intelligence think that the CAS had a true LAV MBT ... IMO,
>>for this task, the weapon should be as I posted them... :) For a LAV
that
>>was meant to be an actual frontlines combat vehicle, what you proposed
>>would be better :)

>Ah .. something I did here in the home game is that the CAS has a few
(less
>than 25 Stonewall MBTs) ... they then modified and altered the external
>appearance of Banshees to look like the CAS had more Stonewalls than
they
>really do.

Yup, that's a very similar idea :) Btw, Nifty tactic: Banshees equip with
hefty ED to try and make themselves look like big mean Stonewalls come
from one direction ... Stonewalls equiped with hefty ED make themselves
look non threatening coming from the other direction ... Have Fun! :)

>> >Note, you could replace the Relampago with a Victory Rotary Assault
Cannon
>> >and
>> >add in a Firelance Laser Cannon onto the Medium Turret, and give the
lower
>> >turret a Victory Rotary Laser Autocannon also.

>> Nope ... No can do ... That would require 5 Hardpoints (3 for the
Medium
>> Turret, 2 for the Small ... LAVs, being body 6 only have 3 available
>> which was used up by the Medium Turret :/
>>
>> For a LAV Tank, you may see a Small turret with an Autocannon or
vehicle
>> laser and then an underbelly mini turret with a AVM/AVR launcher ...

>Okay, guys, something I am pulling in from another game for this, anyone
>remember Traveller 2000 ?!? When it comes to putting weapons onto
vehicles,
>the military are able to put more onto their vehicles because the
vehicles are
>designed with the idea of having weapons onn board. Civilian vehicles,
which
>are not originally intended for weapon use, do not have the ability to
carry
>as many weapons as a military vehicle.
>
>We here in Lafayette use the following formula for hardpoints ...
>
>Civilian : 1 Hardpoint per 2 Body points
>Security : 1 Hardpoint per 1.5 Body points
>Military : 1 Hardpoint per (1) Body point

The Original RBB had something similar ... Militry vehicles could mount 1
hardpoint per 1.5 points of Body ... However, I thought for this project,
It'd be best to stick to R2 ...

<SNIP>
>Although the Keystone Mechanics can't compete with Herc's other b/r /
research
>& development team ... nicknamed the Vorlons because they are always
walking
>around in oversized envirosuits.
>
>-Herc
>------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

???? Vorlons? Could you elaborate? (I'm familiar with B5, just wanted to
know what the Keystone Mechanics are ... :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 13
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Preliminary LAV Stonewall Stats
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:53:09 EDT
In a message dated 7/21/98 10:13:46 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >Although the Keystone Mechanics can't compete with Herc's other b/r /
> research
> >& development team ... nicknamed the Vorlons because they are always
> walking
> >around in oversized envirosuits.
> >
> >-Herc
> >------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> ???? Vorlons? Could you elaborate? (I'm familiar with B5, just wanted to
> know what the Keystone Mechanics are ... :)

The Keystone Mechanics are the Steel Lynxes with their entourage of Walker and
anthroforms doing the mechanical work. The Vorlons are really expensive
anthroforms with a lot more programming making them a lot more flexible than
the Keystones.

And the Vorlons are named such because of the envirosuits they walk around in.
And, yes, there is something hiding inside the suits ... I probably could say
the Vorlons are a variation on a govi with work loa in them.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

Further Reading

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Thwap!