Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.GOV>
Subject: <previous quotes of conduits Snipped>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:18:14 -0400
<previous quotes of conduits Snipped>

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm >>>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

When casting a spell the mage casting the spell performs the following actions:

Step 1: he synchronizes his aura with the aura of the target (excepting
with damaging manipulations which are a different case). This
creates a bridge through astral space connecting the two auras.
<<<<<<<<



Where does it say that an actual Bridge is created? I've re read the section page
149 SRII about Spells and Astral Space. I'm not going to quote it here but there is the
2nd paragraph on the second column that begins with the sentance: " The reason has
to do with _HOW_ a spell works." (FASA Italicised the HOW).
What is says is that the Two auras are synchronized. No where in that paragraph
does it say a bridge is created. In fact the example they give equates it to a spark of
electricity jumping between two points. There is NO bridge created when the Auras
are aligned. You may wish to assume that a bridge is created but that is up to you.
As I write this I realise it might sound a little harsh please don't take this
personally I'm just trying to figure out where some of the assumptions are coming
from as well as show you where my assumptions are based.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm >>>
Step 2: he opens a conduit or channel into astral space in order to draw
energy for the spell into the physical world. Without this
conduit the spell has no power; without power the spell cannot
exist.
<<<<<<<



Please tell me where is says this. The only reference that comes close to this that I
have found is in the same section under Spells and Astral Space which says
(paraphrased) "that the mages senses are opened partially to the astral plane which
allow him to see the targets aura to align his own aura to that of the targets."
Nothing
that I've seen talks about how the caster creates the spell. I've always imagined it as
being something like the shaping of Plasma in an accelerator. The flow is controlled
by machines that never actually touch the actual plasma. Hence the Mage/Shaman
shapes the spell by his actions and thoughts without actualy being astral.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>>>>>>
Step 3: he draws energy through that conduit and gives it form by the
force of his will. This step is the actual casting of the spell.
The spell energy travels across the bridge created in step one.
Intercepting a spell in astral space occours at this point,
preventing the spell from crossing the bridge.
<<<<<<<<<


Again I'm still trying to figure out where you've got a conduit from the Mage into
Astral space. His senses are PARTIALLY open to the Astral Plane but he's not
actually astrally perceiving. Also actual spell interception happens while the spell is
traveling on it's way to the target. I think I might just be interpreting your wording
wrong but I think that is what you meant as well.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>>>>>
Step 3a: If the spell is an instant spell, such as combat magics, the
conduit collapses immediately. Note that the conduit has been in
existance for less time than it takes to cast a spell. You
cannot attack it because, by the time you're ready to launch the
spell at it it's gone.
<<<<<<<<<


Again I'm still puzzled about this bridge that was created in the first place.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>>>
Step 3b: Or, if the spell is a sustained spell, such as healing magics,
the conduit remains open, channeling magical energy into the
mage. Now, you have a conduit for magical energy running from
astral space to the physical world and into the mage.
<<<<<<<<<<


Okay, I'll accept for the sake of argument that somesort of bridge has been created.
Why is there astral energy going into the mage? Since the spell has already left the
Mage and is now effecting the target shouldn't the conduit for Astral Energy be
feeding into the target?


>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>>>
This conduit certainly exists for a greater duration than for an instant spell, and it is
not a spell (spells exist between the caster and the target). So, it really is a valid
astral target.
<<<<<<<<


Please tell me why a sustained spell is not a spell?
Sorry but Just because you're not actually casting a spell doesn't make it a non spell.
The spell still exists as far as I know in Astral space it's just working on the Aura of
the target.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>>>>
Because it has both an astral presence (else it would be useless for drawing
magical energy from astral space) and a physical presence (else the energy could
never get to the mage sustaining
the spell) it is a dual-natured entity.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Okay, I think I understand now how your bridge works for sustaining a spell. Astral
Energy goes into the mage, Mage channels the energy, Energy leaves mage and
goes to sustained spell. (I'm not criticizing but I am hoping that I'm understanding
your concept of sustaining.) If this is the case then I know that our two views of
sustaining spells are totally different. My view just cuts out the astral-into-mage part.
The mage is sustaining the feed line for the spell but isn't an actual part of the Astral
Energy-into-spell connection. Does that make sense to you?

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>>>>
The physical presence is tied to the casting mage's aura; it has to be else he would
be unable to draw energy through it to power the spell he's casting or sustaining.
<<<<<<<<


Not from my viewpoint. The Aura of the mage is actually doing the channeling of
the power all the Mage has to do is concentrate on keeping his Aura in match with the
target he saw when he cast it. (I can also see how you can have problems with your
version when someone you are maintaining a spell on moves out of line of sight.)

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>>>
You can ground through any dual-natured entity.
<<<<<<<<<<

I agree completly.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>
A mage sustaining a spell is a dual-natured entity.

Therefore you can ground through a mage sustaining a spell.
<<<<<<<


I disagree with what I hope are logical reasons I explained above.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm
>>>>>>
A quickening is nothing more than a sustained spell that the mage doesn't have to
actively concentrate on. In every other respect it is identical to a normally sustained
spell. Since you can ground through a mage sustaining a spell you can ground
through a mage with a quickened spell.
.
. . QED
<<<<<<<<<
I still disagree about the above as well.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm >>>
So, what does that all have to do with the conduit? Without creating that conduit a
mage cannot cast spells. Period.
<<<<<<<<<
Show me the part where it says the Conduit is created and I'll allow it.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm >>>
(Snip off previous quotes)

Then the mage cannot draw power for the spell because he exists in the
PHYSICAL plane. There must be a connection between astral space and the physical
world in order for the spell to receive power from astral space. No connection means
no power means no spell.
<<<<<<<<<<

Okay, Explain how something in Astral space needs a physical connection to draw
energy from Astral Space.

>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU> 10/24/95 04:16pm >>>
JWC> The spell's EFFECT may manifest onto the physical plane, but that
JWC> is not sufficient to warrant grounding through.

I'm not talking about grounding into the spell; that exists between the mage and the
target (can be himself). I'm talking about grounding into the mage through the conduit
that is providing power for the spell.

JWC> This whole reply makes no sense. A spell is not a "dual-natured"
JWC> entity, as you so eloquently put it.

I've never claimed that spells are dual-natured entities. I've claimed all along that the
mage sustaining the spell or the mage with a quickened spell is a dual-natured entity,
due to the power conduit he's created in order to maintain the spell's existance.

JWC> It isn't even an entity!

Go read your Grimoire II sometime.

JWC> It is an energy!

An entity is a thing. It does not need to be sentient. Active foci are dual-natured
entities.

JWC> Sheesh, people, do I have to go into fourth-dimensional geometry
JWC> with you?

Try some basic common sense.
<<<<<<<<<<<END

The easy one first, yes, spells are entities that exist for a brief moment as the
travel between caster and target. They are called up out of the stuff of astral space
and go back into it after there job is done.
As to the bit about a mage being dual-natured because he is sustaining a spell I'm
still not convinced that you can get all that out of the books. I understand your view
point but I disagree that the Mage is actually a pass through point for all the astral
energy.

Jriordan@***.gov


P.S. I hope this is a more acceptable standard. Unfortunatly due to the constraints I
am under I don't have line by line quoting and have to block copy between
messages. I'm not going to apologize for Bill Gates' screw ups.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about , you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.