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Message no. 1
From: Erik S Jameson <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:08:49 -0700
Okay, first off, I bought Prime Runners, and while it's really not that
bad, I was rather dissappointed with the skill levels of the NPC's for
the most part. I mean, the combat mage, Suki Redflower (?) isn't even an
initiate (or at least it's not given). In other words, she aint so
tough.

So what I am proposing is to create my own version of Prime Runners
(maybe called Edge Runners or something) with the denizens of these
lists. I'll work on it over Xmas break (I still have to survive finals)
to give me someting to do other than sleep, eat, play hoops, and recover
from the hang-over from the night before. So what I would like from
anyone who is interested to pplease send me a one paragraph (about four
or five lines) telling me about your character or important NPC and why
they should be a "Prime Runner". Eventually I would like this uploaded
to Paolo's SR board on the WWW, and perhaps to be sent to FASA to show
what Prime Runners are REALLY like...

It's just a thought really, something I would like to try to do. Please
e-mail me privately with you submissions. If I like them, I'll ask for
the whole enchilada on your character or NPC. Thanks.

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
Message no. 2
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 12:26:14 EST
The Whistler writes:

> Okay, first off, I bought Prime Runners, and while it's really not that
> bad, I was rather dissappointed with the skill levels of the NPC's for
I totally agree. Though I have yet to purchase this book, I was under
the impression that REAL runners would be shown in this publication.
You know, I was hoping for stats for some real SR baddasses:
Fastjack, Red Wraith, Ghost Who Walks,etc.

> So what I am proposing is to create my own version of Prime
Runners
> (maybe called Edge Runners or something) with the denizens of
these
> lists. I'll work on it over Xmas break (I still have to survive finals)
Nice idea. I will send you something nasty.


Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
I say Death is just lonely, crying out for a friend.

-Shadowdancer- <briddle@*****.vinu.edu>
Message no. 3
From: The GREAT Cornholio <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:54:27 -0700
On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Shadowdancer wrote:

> I totally agree. Though I have yet to purchase this book, I was under
> the impression that REAL runners would be shown in this publication.
> You know, I was hoping for stats for some real SR baddasses:
> Fastjack, Red Wraith, Ghost Who Walks,etc.

I'd like to see the stats on these guys too. However, I'd like to bring
up the AD&D problem that occured once Deities & Demigods came out--

It gave stats for Gods.

People started killing Gods.

Things got outta hand.

I'd hate to have munchkins come up and say, "Hey! I just killed the Neon
Samurai!" or "I just bumped off Hatchetman" or "I hang out with
Nightfire
and Ares bigwigs." I might do something that'll get me arrested.

Mike TGC

Numerous apologies for the T$R references.
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:05:41 -0500
>>>>> "Cornholio" == The GREAT Cornholio
<mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>>>> writes:

Cornholio> However, I'd like to bring up the AD&D problem that occured once
Cornholio> Deities & Demigods came out--

Cornholio> It gave stats for Gods.

Cornholio> People started killing Gods.

Cornholio> Things got outta hand.

Which is why I'm glad FASA's been usually /not/ handing out stats for the
various and sundry very powerful entities. You know, like Ehran and
Dunkelzhan. Such entities need to be tailored for the power level of the
game they're in, and that's something that no game company is capable of
doing. It's better to say ``these guys are /really/ powerful'' and let
individual GMs tailor them for the players.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|returned to its special container and kept
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |under refrigeration.
Message no. 5
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:05:23 EST
Cornholio writes:

> I'd like to see the stats on these guys too. However, I'd like to bring
> up the AD&D problem that occured once Deities & Demigods came
out--
>
Maybe, maybe not. I would just like to have had them. I have a
"decker" back home who thinks he could best Fastjack and be able to
hold his own with Azreal. I am itching cream that worm. :-)

It does not stop me though. I use Dodger quite frequently(another
runner has him as contact), and Harlequin appears at the worst times.
So far, though, no one has been able to dust the other nasties I
through in. :-)


Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
I say Death is just lonely, crying out for a friend.

-Shadowdancer- <briddle@*****.vinu.edu>
Message no. 6
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:19:01 -0500
>>>>> "Shadowdancer" == Shadowdancer
<BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU> writes:

Shadowdancer> Maybe, maybe not. I would just like to have had them. I
Shadowdancer> have a "decker" back home who thinks he could best Fastjack
Shadowdancer> and be able to hold his own with Azreal. I am itching cream
Shadowdancer> that worm. :-)

Ok, so say FASA comes out and says that Fastjack has a Hacking pool of 10,
6/8/10 on his computer skills, etc. How does this compare to your game?
There's no correlation. In my opinion that's really good; in another
group's it's pathetic. In my opinion those stats would whip the socks off
any other decker in the biz; in your game he might get the shit kicked out
of him by half the other deckers out there.

That's the exact reason FASA tends to not publish stats for EMFs, leaving
that up to individual GMs.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |Earth, presumably from outer space.
Message no. 7
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:34:32 EST
SS Rat writes:

> Ok, so say FASA comes out and says that Fastjack has a Hacking
pool of 10,
> 6/8/10 on his computer skills, etc. How does this compare to your
game?

> That's the exact reason FASA tends to not publish stats for EMFs,
leaving
> that up to individual GMs.
I understand what you are saying. I would just like a template to base
my NPCs on. I tend to get a little over-zealous when making powerful
bad guys. Then I realize that there is no way in the 7 heavens and 9
hells that my runners can defeat the rookie sec-guard that has a
ballistic of 14. So I tone him down, and they look at him wrong and he
dies. I can create great storylines, but not great NPCs. I use
archetypes as templates. So if this kid thinks he can take FJ, then I
have the template(within certain restrictions) to make him as tough or
weak as I feel. And you are right. What you consider good for FJ is
paltry for me. Not because the kid is powerful(he only has a 7 in
computer, but 19 in hacking) but because FJ is supposed to be the
second best decker in the world. But then again, he cannot take
Zurich, so I cannot have ungodly stats for him. See my problem?

P.S. That hacking of 10 should be a threat of 10. Makes him meaner.
:-)


Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
I say Death is just lonely, crying out for a friend.

-Shadowdancer- <briddle@*****.vinu.edu>
Message no. 8
From: Brett Ryan Brown <calvinoi@*******.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:16:20 EST
> > I'd like to see the stats on these guys too. However, I'd like to bring
> > up the AD&D problem that occured once Deities & Demigods came
> out--
Yeah. I remember that in the back of Harlequin's Back, Dowd writes
that the first axiom of role-playing games is: If you give it stats,
they will kill it. (or something to that effect) Unfortunately, it is
pretty true, though more so in **&* than Shadowrun (or at least, so
I'd like to think). I still think that it would be nice to quantify
some of the characters in Shadowrun. I mean, if they DID publish a
book like Prime Runners (which, I'm assuming, is a definite plan now),
then GM's could just flip through it, and if it had stats for
characters that they didn't want "spoiled", then they just wouldn't
buy it. Even if GM's do buy it, nothing's forcing them to use those
stats in an adventure. I know that I probably wouldn't use those stats
in my runs. I think mystery is a very powerful force in shadowruns.
(As is FEAR!!! Mooowaahahahaha...)

> Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
> I say Death is just lonely, crying out for a friend.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Very cool!

"Life is merely a fight against that which wouldst bring us death."

--
_/_/_/_/ _ calvinoi@*******.scri.fsu.edu
_/ | | _ _ NOTE: All of the above
_/ __ _ | | __ __ (_) _ _ ___ (_) text put there by me
_/ / _` | | | \ V / | | | ' \ / _ \ | | is SOLELY my _own_
_/_/_/_/ \__,_| |_| \_/ |_| |_||_\ \___/ |_| worthless blather.
=============================================== ----------------------.
(Geek Code 2.1) G! d+@ H s !g p1+ !au a14 w++(+++) v++(---) c++(++++) |
______________. US>US+++ P? !L 3 E? N++ K++ W--- M++ V -po+(---) Y+>++ |
Fight the War!| t++ 5+ j+ R++ G++>'''' tv+ b++ D+ B--- e u**(---) h! f |
Fuck the Norm!| !r>r n-@ !y .__________________________________________|
Don't Conform!|_____________|
Message no. 9
From: Thomas Hirt <kragan@***.UVIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 23:04:23 PST
Shadowdancer wrote,

>I understand what you are saying. I would just like a template to base
>my NPCs on. I tend to get a little over-zealous when making powerful
>bad guys. Then I realize that there is no way in the 7 heavens and 9
>hells that my runners can defeat the rookie sec-guard that has a
>ballistic of 14. So I tone him down, and they look at him wrong and he
>dies. I can create great storylines, but not great NPCs.

Same here. :)
I think that if they released stats for the NPCs, then at least I would have
something to gauge my numbers against. ie. Archtype has this level skill,
Prime Runners (for eg.) says the big npc has this skill, so I know what
his skill is relative to the "standard" SR Universe.


Just my thoughts,
Message no. 10
From: Marcel Emami <rab@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-MANNHEIM.DE>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 13:25:34 MEZ
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> wrote

> That's the exact reason FASA tends to not publish stats for EMFs, leaving
> that up to individual GMs.

Somebody once told me that there not aucha thing as STUPID QUESTIONS
(olny FAQs ;) ) So what ist EMF ???


BTW You`re right if FASA would publish Stats for Harlequin or Ehran or
Dodger or someone else some STUPID runners and/or MUNCHKIN GM would
slot them.



RAB
GM/GO -d+(---) -P+(---) c+(+++) l u e+ m+ s /- n+ h+ f+ g++ w+ t-- r++ y++

rab@***.informatik.uni-mannheim.de
Message no. 11
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:42:33 -0500
>>>>> "Marcel" == Marcel Emami
<rab@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-MANNHEIM.DE>
>>>>> writes:

Marcel> Somebody once told me that there not aucha thing as STUPID
Marcel> QUESTIONS (olny FAQs ;) ) So what ist EMF ???

EMF: Established Major Figure.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |Earth, presumably from outer space.
Message no. 12
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 11:31:58 +0100
RAB writes:
> BTW You`re right if FASA would publish Stats for Harlequin or Ehran or
> Dodger or someone else some STUPID runners and/or MUNCHKIN GM would
> slot them.
So? I don't see the point in this discussion. SR is a fun game. If
your players and maybe even the GM (gosh, do I dare it) likes to waste
Ehran/Harlequin/whatever I say: Do it!

Don't get me wrong. I don't like it and I would throw a piano on the
head of the player who tries it, but if out there are people who like
it, who am I to say "no, you won't"

Resumee: Give stats.
If you don't want them, don't use them.

Simply as that

bye,
Stefan
Message no. 13
From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@*******.HNA.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 09:31:14 EST
Cornholio> However, I'd like to bring up the AD&D problem that occured once
Cornholio> Deities & Demigods came out--
Cornholio> It gave stats for Gods.
Cornholio> People started killing Gods.
Cornholio> Things got outta hand.

In MERP/RM they had stats for all the Gods AND all the MAIN NPC's. But at
least they made the Gods SO powerful it was absurd to get characters to
challege them. BUT, there was problems with other NPC's. Like parties
trying to hunt down and kill Gollum before he found the ring, or parties
fighting a Nazgul and defeating (killing) him.

I must say that I would enjoy sort of general descriptions. No so far as to
have a character sheet. So you would have a description of him, items that
he is famed for having, a general sort of power level (at least a lv 12
initiate), etc. Lilke some of the AD&D books, they had a
description/history, mentioned his class, his level, and special items
he/she had, etc. No REAL specifics.

But, I would love to read a list of peoples favourite characters from the
net in any case.

-
Jason Mulligan
E-Mail to: manwe@*******.hna.com.au

"The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe.
You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."
- Grand Moff Tarkin
Message no. 14
From: the holy Entombed <rasputin@***.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Prime Runners!
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 18:12:24 -0500
That's right, it's out. (I'm praying it hasn't simply been out for
awhile and that I've completely missed it...)

I have yet to read any great deal of it, but the Prime Horrors section
already looks like the best, and a section details a small, three-member
gang based in Manhattan (where my runners happen to make their home...).

I like the way the book is laid out, and some of the illustrations are
nice... I'm not the biggest fan of the gentleman who shades illustrations
in such a way that makes everyone appear to have a facial hair problem.
A lot of his stuff is in there...

With a few minutes of reading, there are a lot of really unique types in
here for on-the-spot meeeting and greeting. I don't regret laying out
the $15, and I've read very little of it at this point.

--the holy Entombed-- - - - - - - -
Message no. 15
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners!
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 21:05:06 EST
Holy Entombed writes:

> That's right, it's out. (I'm praying it hasn't simply been out for
> awhile and that I've completely missed it...)
>
Sorry chummer, we have been discussion the drek out of it for the
past week or so. It has been out since Oct. or Nov, But we still love
you... :-)

Ask Whistler about his Edge Runners complation.


Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
I say Death is just lonely, crying out for a friend.

-Shadowdancer- <briddle@*****.vinu.edu>
Message no. 16
From: Brother Equine <equine@********.NET>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 22:38:00 CST
I have been looking through the Prime Runners source book and was wondering=

how good of a book it really is? Was it a waste? I mean I guess I could of=

made the NPCs myself but it does seem like it saves time. Also if anyone
has used any of them in a game would you tell me how tough these people are?=

I would hate to throw some in a game with my new runners and end up with
the runners slaughtered within minutes.

Message no. 17
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.GOV>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 13:00:42 -0400
> Prime Runners Powerful ? <gasp, shock, gag>.
> They are closer to being absolute demi-humans,
> dieties etc etc etc. Single example the sniper will the
> 11 dice skill, T#2 and cyberware that cost what
> would put several small countries GNP to shame.
> Andre'

Uh, hate to differ with you but my problem with
Prime Runners is that the NPCs are to weak. I just
started playing in another Campaign and my starting
stats and stuff begin something like this. Firearms (6)
then add 2 dice for enhanced articulation and a reflex
recorder. now I'm up to 8 dice have TN of 2 with the
smartlink. Now imagine if I concentrate in just
pistols? or a specific weapon? Hmmm... skill 8 with
say the ingram smartgun, Enhanced articulation,
Reflex recorder concentration, oh and don't forget the
customized gun option. There is 11 dice with TN 2
and no Combat pool yet...
I've seen it done that way because a meta human
who wants to be a street sam is usually low in skills
and needs to concentrate in order to get up to say
human sam skills.

Jeff
Message no. 18
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 11:27:00 +0200
}> Prime Runners Powerful ? <gasp, shock, gag>.
}> They are closer to being absolute demi-humans,
}> dieties etc etc etc. Single example the sniper will the
}> 11 dice skill, T#2 and cyberware that cost what
}> would put several small countries GNP to shame.
}> Andre'
}
} Uh, hate to differ with you but my problem with
}Prime Runners is that the NPCs are to weak. I just
}started playing in another Campaign and my starting
}stats and stuff begin something like this. Firearms (6)
}then add 2 dice for enhanced articulation and a reflex
}recorder. now I'm up to 8 dice have TN of 2 with the
}smartlink. Now imagine if I concentrate in just
}pistols? or a specific weapon? Hmmm... skill 8 with
}say the ingram smartgun, Enhanced articulation,
}Reflex recorder concentration, oh and don't forget the
}customized gun option. There is 11 dice with TN 2
}and no Combat pool yet...

That sounds like min-maxing. A character with 12 dice in a skill
is not only unrealistic but also throws the game balance into the
wind. When characters reach dice of that number, it means they are
the creme de la creme of the shadows.

} I've seen it done that way because a meta human
}who wants to be a street sam is usually low in skills
}and needs to concentrate in order to get up to say
}human sam skills.

But then when having so many concentration ends up unplayable due
to the limited amount of versatility. The saving in points in the
longterm are not worth it, even more so with the specilizations.

Anyway with the amount of money the NPC in PR have is more than
enough to retire on several times over.





Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strenght to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bulletts, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/
Message no. 19
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.GOV>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 08:47:54 -0400
> That sounds like min-maxing. A character with 12
> dice in a skill is not only unrealistic but also throws
> the game balance into the wind. When characters
> reach dice of that number, it means they are the
> creme de la creme of the shadows.

Of course the example I gave was Min-Maxing.
There are also some flaws to that type of system as
you said about concentrating too much and that kind of
thing. I never buy skills in specializations but have
on occasion gone for concentrations for things like
Summoning where a shaman can't summon
Elementals I concentrated on Spirits and had a 5 in
summoning (actually more like banishing) Elementals.
As far as having 12 dice in a skill does not by any
means mean that character is the best of the best in
the shadows. You have to take a character as a whole
in order to evaluate him. The original example I gave
for the character I just created (firearms 6 +2 dice with
enhanced articulation and reflex recorder) has serious
drawbacks that were built into the character
conception. The characters intiative was 8 +1d6,
hand only maxed in body as far as stats and started
with 3s in Int, Will, and was ugly as sin.

> Anyway with the amount of money the NPC in PR
> have is more than enough to retire on several times
> over.
> Andre'

Hey, even today people who could retire like to keep
working because it keeps them busy and they enjoy
doing it.
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 20:56:03 +0200
> As far as having 12 dice in a skill does not by any
>means mean that character is the best of the best in
>the shadows.

I think what was meant was that (s)he would be one of the best in that
_particular_field_, not in _general_... Someone with Firearms 12 can shoot
the earring out of someone's, well, ear at 1000 meters I'd say...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's a Hardley Davidson
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 21
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:36:20 -0400
Somebody (sorry, don't remember who) wrote:

> } Uh, hate to differ with you but my problem with
> }Prime Runners is that the NPCs are to weak. I just
> }started playing in another Campaign and my starting
> }stats and stuff begin something like this. Firearms (6)
> }then add 2 dice for enhanced articulation and a reflex
> }recorder. now I'm up to 8 dice have TN of 2 with the
> }smartlink. Now imagine if I concentrate in just
> }pistols? or a specific weapon? Hmmm... skill 8 with
> }say the ingram smartgun, Enhanced articulation,
> }Reflex recorder concentration, oh and don't forget the
> }customized gun option. There is 11 dice with TN 2
> }and no Combat pool yet...

That's all well and fine, but how often are you actually going to
be firing at a target number of two? Yes, in munchkin games with
munchkin situations, this is a munchkin character. But target number 2
assumes a lot of things, like close range, full daylight, no movement, no
wounds, no cover, and no distractions. How often does *that* happen?
Not often. Why is it that people only seem to remember the smartlink
modifier???

Marc (sorry, my pet peeve again...)
Message no. 22
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:08:00 +0100
Ronald Hitzler said on 12:54/30 Aug 96...

> which type of supplement is 'prime runners' ?

The worst type :)

> is it an adventure, source book, ... ?
> i can't find it anywhere!

PR is a book full of "high-powered" NPCs. I don't have it, but from
looking in it at a store and from other peoples' stories on this list,
it's one you can just as well leave on the shelf. It seems most of the
characters are pretty flat, and made by giving them an A priority in all
categories. Buy if you must, but I recommend getting NERPS: Edge Runners
from Paolo's SR archive instead (not that I'm biased, of course... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Give me money give me gold, it brings me happiness I'm told.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 23
From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:42:46 U
Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
been useful in your games?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.

Steve
Message no. 24
From: Mark McLaughlin <mmclaugh@*******.EENG.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:24:06 -0800
Steve Collins wrote:
>
> Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
> looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
> been useful in your games?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>
> Steve

Never heard of it!!
Message no. 25
From: "Blair A. Monroe" <bmonroe@******.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:32:33 -0500
At 09:42 AM 11/27/96 U, you wrote:
>Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
>looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
>been useful in your games?
>
>Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>
>Steve
>
>

I have the book and have used it on occasion. Many of the characters do
tend to be extreme examples of each particuler style (for example: the
assassin is VERY powerful, as are several of the mages). The effect this
has on your campaign would depend on how much you were willing to slide the
stats around to meet your needs for the NPC. I have found it to fairly
useful when I need an NPC who is well known in his field or someone strong
enough to give the PCs second thoughts about walking over the NPC. It
helps save my time in these cases because each character does come with a
bit of background information, a personality, plot ideas and their stats.



______________________________________________________________________________
Blair A. Monroe | bmonroe@******.fsu.edu | GLS/IT/(TW) GC3.12
| | d+(dpu) s:+ a25>a? C++(+++) U(!U)
-----------------|-------------------------| P>+ L W+++ N+ o-- K- w--- !O
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~bmonroe/ | M++ PS+ !PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+++ X++
(Books-RPGs-TV-Etc.) | R+(++) tv+ b++>+++ DI+(++) D+
| G++ e++>+++ h* y?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 26
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:32:19 +0100
At 09:42 27.11.1996 U, you wrote:
>Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
>looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
>been useful in your games?
>
>Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>
>Steve

Nope.
>
Message no. 27
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:23:33 -0500
Download NERPS Edge Runners instead. Its alot cheaper and just as good.

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Mark McLaughlin wrote:

> Steve Collins wrote:
> >
> > Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
> > looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
> > been useful in your games?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
> >
> > Steve
>
> Never heard of it!!
>
Message no. 28
From: David Fallon <dfallon@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:26:30 -0800
> Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
> looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
> been useful in your games?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>
> Steve

The Prime Runners book is more fun than it is, useful. <grin> It's great to
wave around and scare characters, and it's interesting to read. I find it
just as easy to make up my own characters, though. All you really get is a
bunch of really buff characters to scare or kill PCs with. The really
interesting ones require a lot of work tying them in. It's not bad to get if
you can find it for under $10, but at $15 (I think?), it's not really worth
it.

David Fallon
Message no. 29
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:43:46 -0700
> Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once
it
> looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has
it
> been useful in your games?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>
> Steve

Ohhhhh, there's a can of worms for you.

This came up not long after I started the list, suffice it to say you're
about to find out what the GM's here really think of that book. ;o)

Personally, I don't mind having it on hand. I usually use it more as a
luanching pad for ideas than taking the NPC's verbatim though.

NERPS Edge Runner would probably be worth your time d-loading as well.

@>--,--'--- Loki

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
- Clarke's third law

**********************************************
Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
**********************************************
Message no. 30
From: 'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:52:37 -0800
On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Steve Collins wrote:

#Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
#looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
#been useful in your games?
#
(looks around semi-nervously)
My name's Bill, and I am a Shadowrun Addict
[Hi Bill!]
I knew I had reached bottom when I actually shelled out money for
_Prime Runners_
(various gasps of shock)

Seriously, it's ok for ideas, but take the stats and shove them
down the nearest garbage disposal. I've made scarier assasin PA's with
only one grade of initiation, let alone the nine that the Irish assasin is
supposed to have. Urgh. If you're at all creative, give it a miss.


The Spaceman |God said, "Let there be light." And God
spaced@*.washington.edu |separated the light from the dark. And
Check out the Bill Page! |did two loads of laundry. -Genesis 1:2.5
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
Message no. 31
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:05:48 -0800
> Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
> looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
> been useful in your games?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>
> Steve

A friend bought it, but aside from interesting reading...we've yet to actually
use it in any run.

~Tim
Message no. 32
From: Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:13:21 UT
>#Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
>#looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
>#been useful in your games?
>#
> (looks around semi-nervously)
> My name's Bill, and I am a Shadowrun Addict
> [Hi Bill!]
> I knew I had reached bottom when I actually shelled out money for
>_Prime Runners_
> (various gasps of shock)
Krist that sounds familiar but I juts can't place it, *reaching to the foot
high pile of SR stuff to get prime runners*
> Seriously, it's ok for ideas, but take the stats and shove them
>down the nearest garbage disposal. I've made scarier assasin PA's with
>only one grade of initiation, let alone the nine that the Irish assasin is
>supposed to have. Urgh. If you're at all creative, give it a miss.
I think that Liza Suarez (the talismonger) are absouloutly brilliant but I did
free form a whole adventure (lasting nearly 10 hrs, you know one of those
through the night jobs) with romps through europe and various other places,
Tuesday (the elf Yak Ganster) is now (slightly upgraded) a serious threat in
campaign, IE every time I say there is an oriental elf standing in the corner
all the character sh*t them self and leave rappidly. :)

>The Spaceman |God said, "Let there be light." And God
>spaced@*.washington.edu |separated the light from the dark. And
>Check out the Bill Page! |did two loads of laundry. -Genesis 1:2.5
>http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
>GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
>PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
>MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
Message no. 33
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 20:59:35 -0500
>Steve Collins wrote:
>>
>> Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
>> looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
>> been useful in your games?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>>
>> Steve
>
I've read it, though I don't use it or own it. Personally, i feel it's
pretty much a waste of money. It's nice if you want some halfway
high-powered pre-generated characters, but it's not a great buy if you have
a little time and creativity, because you can come up with the same type of
chars, or better...:)

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= =
= chaos@*****,com =
= =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"Sure, I've handled a machine gun lots of times.
I was the captain of the Machine Gun Team in High School."
-Jeff Goldblum, in some bad movie from the '80's called "Vibes"
Message no. 34
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:15:31 +0100
Steve Collins said on 9:42/27 Nov 96...

> Do any GM's out there have the Prime Runners sourcebook. I saw it once it
> looked interesting and I am thinking of buying it. Is it any good ? Has it
> been useful in your games?

Don't buy it -- <quick plug> download NERPS: Edge Runners instead </quick
plug> :)

I don't own Prime Runners, but I've looked through the book in a few
times (other peoples' copies and in stores), and it looks pretty useless
to me. Then there are the comments to that extent that have been floating
around this list since it was released...

The most important problems with the book seem to be:
* The characters are often flat
* They seem to have been made using character generation rules with all
priorities at A
* Lots of errors in the stats (some don't even have skills listed!)
* Limited usefulness in a game

I'm not saying NERPS: Edge Runners is perfect or avoids these traps, but
it won't cost you US$18 :) (Okay, that was another plug -- sue me :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Attach it to the leg of the long-distance duck.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 35
From: Fastjack <uc298@*****.UNICAN.ES>
Subject: Prime runners
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:18:29 +0100
Well,i enjoy this because:have a lot of good(well very unbalancing
characters)with good backgrounds.Personally i found very interesting Karl
Heinz Zessler,Martin Devries,and the gang of trolls(sorry,dont remember
now the name).
All characters have an interesting background that IMO could very very
useful for every Master.Perhaps they dont fit in every campaign,but the
background and ideas yes.
Message no. 36
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Prime runners
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:16:53 GMT
Fastjack writes

> Well,i enjoy this because:have a lot of good(well very unbalancing
> characters)with good backgrounds.
Yes there is some useful stuff in there, the problem is there are a
lot of very difficult to use characters and poorly designed ones.
Sure for those of that found out how useful it is by buying it and
reading it i has it uses (some day i'll be feeling bored, look at a
character in it and have a good idea)

> Personally i found very interesting Karl
> Heinz Zessler,
Ah yes, rather interesting, the big background question however is
answered in Black Madona to a great extent (ok no guarantee he's over
2000 but!). The fun with using the guy though is getting to him!

> Martin Devries
Yes, and refs to in Cybertechnology or is it the other way.

>,and the gang of trolls(sorry,dont remember
> now the name).
> All characters have an interesting background that IMO could very very
> useful for every Master.Perhaps they dont fit in every campaign,but the
> background and ideas yes.
>
Well.........

Mark
Message no. 37
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 23:50:17 EST
IS there a Prime Runners source book out right now, or will there be one
out soon enough? I have never seen this book, except in the FASA
catalog. Speaking of that, how long does it take for you to get your
order from that catalog? Just shooting off questions in the dark.


Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!
Message no. 38
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:04:06 -0700
At 23:50 3/1/97 EST, you wrote:
>IS there a Prime Runners source book out right now, or will there be one
>out soon enough? I have never seen this book, except in the FASA
>catalog. Speaking of that, how long does it take for you to get your
>order from that catalog? Just shooting off questions in the dark.

<favourforGurth> NERPS: Edge Runners is supposed to be much better than
Prime Runners. I've only flipped thru Prime Runners, but I'm sure someone
else will fill you in on the similarities/differences. I know that
<shamelessplug>The Shadowrun Supplemental has a short review of
it.</shamelessplug>
You can get The Shadowrun Supplemental at
http://www.geocities.com/area51/6112/tss.html and the NERPS books at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth (I think)
</favourforGurth>

-Adam
Message no. 39
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:16:17 EST
To: Fro
Subject: source books
><favourforGurth> NERPS: Edge Runners is supposed to be much better
>than
>Prime Runners. ......
-----
Hmmmm, is this a matter of opinion, or favoritism, ha ha just kidding. I
guess I'll have to breakdown and get the net for my 'pooter so I can get
all of this great sourcebook material. Thank you Fearless, or New
Fearless leader, whichever you are.


Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!
Message no. 40
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 03:28:23 -0500
At 10:04 PM 3/1/97 -0700, Adam J wrote these timeless words:
>At 23:50 3/1/97 EST, you wrote:
>>IS there a Prime Runners source book out right now, or will there be one
>>out soon enough? I have never seen this book, except in the FASA
>>catalog. Speaking of that, how long does it take for you to get your
>>order from that catalog? Just shooting off questions in the dark.
>
Yes, Prime Runners is out, and has been for a couple of years... It's also
still in print, IIRC...

Not an overly useful book, but not bad for quick, major NPC's...

><favourforGurth> NERPS: Edge Runners is supposed to be much better than
>Prime Runners. I've only flipped thru Prime Runners, but I'm sure someone
>else will fill you in on the similarities/differences.
>
Check this out too...:) Buy Prime Runners! Make Mike Happy! Check out
Edge Runners! Make teh NERPS group happy!:):)

I know that
><shamelessplug>The Shadowrun Supplemental has a short review of
>it.</shamelessplug>
>You can get The Shadowrun Supplemental at
>http://www.geocities.com/area51/6112/tss.html and the NERPS books at
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth (I think)
></favourforGurth>
>
And

Check out TSS! Make those of us who worked on it happy!:):):)

<grin>

Bull :]

--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"
Message no. 41
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:41:00 EST
To: Bull
Subject: Prime Runners
> IIRC...
---
What does this mean?
----

>The Shadowrun Supplemental at
---
What exactly is this file? I know it's for shadowrun, but what does it
have in it?
Message no. 42
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 23:43:47 -0700
At 00:41 3/2/97 EST, you wrote:

>> IIRC...
>What does this mean?

If I remember/recall correctly

>>The Shadowrun Supplemental at
>What exactly is this file? I know it's for shadowrun, but what does it
>have in it?

--Exerpt from Editors Notes--
In this issue, we have; A short story by Bull, an adventure module by Thomas
Deeny, a TON of book reviews by Gurth, some rants by Adam Wise, a a few
shadow-comments, and a new archetype and some corresponding gear. A modest
first issue. You will notice that I myself didn't write anything, not because
I didn't intend too, but because both items I wrote turned out to grow more
than I intended, and probably won't be done until at least next issue.


-Adam
Message no. 43
From: Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 04:49:25 -0500
Prime Runners was somewhat interesting, more for concept ideas than
anything else, but it didn't particularly impress me.

Shawn
Who can make his own damn characters.

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh No!
Another damn page!
http://www.toptown.com/CENTRALPARK/DEOSYNE/
Ah what the hell; better than gardening!
Message no. 44
From: Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:01:23 -0500
In regards to Gweedo's TSS (not the tampon problem) question:

The Shadowrun Supplemental sounds fascinating! Unfortunatly, I can't
view it, but nevertheless kudo's to those involved for contributing to
such a work. It's things like TSS and this list which help enrich our
own campaigns and provide a way for those of us who are devoted fans of
Shadowrun, but have no one of simular interest to hang with nearby to
interact with other Shadowrun types. Good job.

Shawn
Marking another thing to check out when he finally gets a 'puter.

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh No!
Another damn page!
http://www.toptown.com/CENTRALPARK/DEOSYNE/
Ah what the hell; better than gardening!
Message no. 45
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 12:21:31 +0100
Gweedo The Killer Pimp said on 23:50/ 1 Mar 97...

> IS there a Prime Runners source book out right now, or will there be one
> out soon enough? I have never seen this book, except in the FASA
> catalog.

Talk on the list when PR first came out said that it's not really a book
you need to have in your collection. I don't own it (I might buy it if I
have cash to spare and I can get it cheap) but from what I've heard on the
list, most characters are a bit flat, appearing to have been made by
putting all priorities on A. <quick plug>Download NERPS: Edge Runners
from Paolo's page if you want a bunch of powerful characters.</quick plug>

> Speaking of that, how long does it take for you to get your order from
> that catalog? Just shooting off questions in the dark.

Depends on where you live, I imagine. Like I said a few days ago, it took
about 3 months the one time I ordered something straight from FASA, but
then, I'm in Europe.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
They all are.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 46
From: Dark Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 13:44:58 +0000
In article <19970301.224902.3334.9.Yawas@****.com>, Gweedo The Killer
Pimp <yawas@****.COM> writes
>IS there a Prime Runners source book out right now, or will there be one

Yes. It's been out for some time.

If your local store is able to use ISBN to order books for you..

ISBN# 1-55560-225-5


However, ther's a very mixed opinion regarding the book. I personally
like it, but it seems that many consider it a pointless waste of paper,
and that homebrew NPCs are better. Some of the characters in the book
are fun though. <g>

>order from that catalog? Just shooting off questions in the dark.

Alledgedly it takes quite some time.

A few years ago, I ordered some Star Trek miniatures from FASA. After a
few months, I got twitchy <g>. After a bit of mucking around, it
actually took nearly a year for the "an" order to arrive. When I
finally got something from them, they'd discontinued the Star Trek line
so I couldn't have what I wanted, but in favour of FASA they did send
the entire Renegade Legion miniature set, which worked out more
expensive. So although they can take time, if they think a customer has
been screwed about, they're pretty generous in their apology. The one
thing that was noticeable, is that during my many phone calls to Fasa,
they were always helpful and polite.

Just a bit slow for international things. <g>

Local to the USA, I should imagine orders are somewhat quicker.

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/
Message no. 47
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 14:48:43 EST
To: Dark Avenger
Subject: twitchiness
> After
>a
>few months, I got twitchy <g>. After a bit of mucking around, it
>actually took nearly a year for the "an" order to arrive......<snip the
rest>
------
I think if I ordered a book from FASA, and it took a year to get it, I
might go postal on the neighborhood. Or run amok with an axe, who knows.


Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!
Message no. 48
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 15:16:03 EST
To: Dark Avenger
Subject: Prime Runners

>Yes. It's been out for some time.
>If your local store is able to use ISBN to order books for you..
>ISBN# 1-55560-225-5
>However, ther's a very mixed opinion regarding the book. I personally
>like it, but it seems that many consider it a pointless waste of
>paper,
>and that homebrew NPCs are better. Some of the characters in the
>book
>are fun though. <g>
-----
I guess there was already a big debate on whether or not Prime Runners
sucks hindwind or not. I would rather not throw fuel on a fire that's
already hopefully burnt out. What was the reaction to the Corp Sec.
book. When I picked it up, I thought that it was a waste of money, but
as I read it more, I wanted to do a run where it incorporated a building,
because now I had a good source.


Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!
Message no. 49
From: Dark Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:26:50 +0000
In article <19970302.141423.12430.6.Yawas@****.com>, Gweedo The Killer
Pimp <yawas@****.COM> writes
>To: Dark Avenger
>Subject: Prime Runners
>

>>and that homebrew NPCs are better. Some of the characters in the
>>book
>>are fun though. <g>
>-----
>I guess there was already a big debate on whether or not Prime Runners
>sucks hindwind or not.

Yeah, there have been a couple of debates about it, opinion is split,
but towards the "not good" fraternity. <s>

>I would rather not throw fuel on a fire that's
>already hopefully burnt out. What was the reaction to the Corp Sec.
>book.

About the same. Some liked it, some didn't. Me, I like it, though it
doesn't cover the subject the way I expected. I was hoping for a bit
more information and concept, and got a pile of toys in FASA's usual one
per page style. Shame really as I had high hopes for it.

>When I picked it up, I thought that it was a waste of money, but
>as I read it more, I wanted to do a run where it incorporated a building,
>because now I had a good source.

So far I have managed to lay my hands on all of the FASA books, and they
all have their uses, to one extent or another. Some are OK, some good,
some leave a bit to be desired. I guess it's really down to
interpretation and the style of game you run. :)


--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/
Message no. 50
From: Dark Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:29:40 +0000
In article <19970302.134652.12430.2.Yawas@****.com>, Gweedo The Killer
Pimp <yawas@****.COM> writes
>To: Dark Avenger
>Subject: twitchiness

>>few months, I got twitchy <g>. After a bit of mucking around, it
>>actually took nearly a year for the "an" order to arrive......<snip
the
>rest>
>------
>I think if I ordered a book from FASA, and it took a year to get it, I
>might go postal on the neighborhood. Or run amok with an axe, who knows.

I was getting a tad strange, I have to admit. But then, some people
here would maintain that I'm strange anyway. :)

Having said that, once the problem had been identified, FASA were very
good and made a very nice apology for having wasted so much of my time.
The lesson I learned was to never ordered things direct from FASA since.
I know some people who haven't had any problems and have received their
orders within a few weeks. Such is life :)


--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/
Message no. 51
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:23:54 EST
On Sun, 2 Mar 1997 05:01:23 -0500 Shawn Baumgartner writes:
>In regards to Gweedo's TSS (not the tampon problem) question:
>
>The Shadowrun Supplemental sounds fascinating! Unfortunatly, I can't
>view it, but nevertheless kudo's to those involved for contributing to
>such a work. It's things like TSS and this list which help enrich our
>own campaigns and provide a way for those of us who are devoted fans of
>Shadowrun, but have no one of simular interest to hang with nearby to
>interact with other Shadowrun types. Good job.
>
>Shawn
>Marking another thing to check out when he finally gets a 'puter.

If you really want to check it out, I could download it again and send
you a text version (it's in RTF.. I think).

Hey Fro, didn't you put an ASCII version of it up on your page too?

~Tim (who'll check it out as soon as the modem is done sending out-bound
mail to Juno)
Message no. 52
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 01:59:28 +0000
|
|To: Bull
|Subject: Prime Runners
|> IIRC...
|---
|What does this mean?

Here we go again.....

If I Remember Correctly....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 53
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 23:47:51 EST
To: Tim Cooper
Subject: PriMe Runners
>If you really want to check it out, I could download it again and send
>you a text version (it's in RTF.. I think).
----
Hey, Send that TSS (No not the tampon problem, whatever that means) over
my way if you wouldn't mind. I'm on Juno too so I guess you know just
how to send it. Thank you.


Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!
Message no. 54
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 19:20:44 +0100
On Sun, 2 Mar 1997 15:16:03 EST, Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:

>What was the reaction to the Corp Sec.
>book. When I picked it up, I thought that it was a waste of money, but
>as I read it more, I wanted to do a run where it incorporated a building,
>because now I had a good source.

I too think it's worth it's price because of the detailed security
concepts. It's a good source on security procedures and the thought
behind them, and if you need virtually perfect security then it's
a good source. PCs that are confronted with a high security building
need some good thoughts to infiltrate, and that's much more fun and
roleplaying than the avereage low-level security that I as a GM
could think of before I read CorpSec. And it offers some canon about
security systems, of course, other than the typical house-made ones.
The described equipment adds only color to the SR-world IMO, players
will not need to know them, and PCs will not have to own much of it,
thoug some things surely are valuable for 'runners. The detailed
rules on how to handle variuos sorts of technical security make
dealing with maglocks etc. interesting, and fill in a lot of gaps
the black book left open.

That's my thoughts about it.


--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
Message no. 55
From: John Jones <jjonnzz@********.INFI.NET>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:01:35 -0500
Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:
>
> To: Fro
> Subject: source books
> ><favourforGurth> NERPS: Edge Runners is supposed to be much better
> >than
> >Prime Runners. ......
> -----
> Hmmmm, is this a matter of opinion, or favoritism, ha ha just kidding. I
> guess I'll have to breakdown and get the net for my 'pooter so I can get
> all of this great sourcebook material. Thank you Fearless, or New
> Fearless leader, whichever you are.
>
> Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!


Having been on the AOL playtest group for PRIMERUNNERS, I can honestly
say that it is one product that I am glad I did not spend any money on.
I was quite disappointed with it in the "beta" version and it's glaring
inconsistencies.

John Jones
Message no. 56
From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:54:31 -0400
>> A few of the NPCs in "Prime Runners" come out of Shadowrun Novels (i.e.
>> Martin DeVries), but most of the characters are rather buff statistically

<snip>

>Of course, Prime Runners is only worth the money for this purpose if
>you're a rabid completionist. You can get equally good ideas for free
>from NERPS Foundations or BlackJack's compilations.

I'm one of those rabid completionist...but I just couldn't spend the money
on Prime Runners. If it had more of the NPCs from the Novels, I definately
would have gotten it...Dodger, Ghost, Niko, Kham, etc...
But alas...nothing that cool. Just a five minute time saver.


--00DNA
"The Matrix patterns itself on Nature" <<Replication Terminated>>
Message no. 57
From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prime Runners
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:46:15 -0400
On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:54:31 -0400 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
writes:

>I'm one of those rabid completionist...but I just couldn't spend the
money
>on Prime Runners. If it had more of the NPCs from the Novels, I
definately
>would have gotten it...Dodger, Ghost, Niko, Kham, etc...
>But alas...nothing that cool. Just a five minute time saver.

That'd be cool. Now that I've dragged former Palladium players kicking,
screaming and pitching a fit into SR, I'd personally like to see NPC
stats from the novel characters, especially considering I'll probably
have one or two drop by. Still, there wouldn't be anything you probably
couldn't do on your own.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"Kham's my hero. I even have his card!"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 58
From: rothgefa@*******.com (Robert Fanning)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:06:57 +1000
Is it really necessary to use prime runners?

What is wrong with a lot of cannon fodder, so that players do not get to
"recycle" top grade cyberware or geek them for their gearf?



<@^@> put "Robert" (without quotes) in the subject line to bypass my junk
mail filter and do not use the keywords "bank, business, credit, debt,
insurance, interest, loan, money".

http://www.livejournal.com/users/rothgefa
Message no. 59
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:59:17 +0000
On Nov 27, 2004, at 10:06, Robert Fanning wrote:

> Is it really necessary to use prime runners?
>
> What is wrong with a lot of cannon fodder, so that players do not get
> to "recycle" top grade cyberware or geek them for their gearf?

Well, it depends what you want to use them for... If you need cannon
fodder to stormtroop everything in sight, then you can hire gangers on
drugs with Predators. If you want to organize a shadowrun (and
especially a dangerous one that requires a lot of skill), you may want
to hire real shadowrunners for it.
If the question was "who can I make my PCs fight?", just use whatever
makes sense given their current situation. IOW, a corp complex doesn't
keep a team of shadowrunners on call just to kill intruders (what a
waste of talent that would be). They don't have drunk hobos with
Streetline Specials either. They're more likely to have, say, security
guards, Matrix security, and if it's a high-security complex a CCSS
rigger...

As for looting cyberware... You have PCs who actually *do* this sort
of things!? o.O

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 60
From: jharkes@*****.com (Jeroen Harkes)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:37:48 +0100
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:06:57 +1000, Robert Fanning <rothgefa@*******.com> wrote:
> Is it really necessary to use prime runners?
>
> What is wrong with a lot of cannon fodder, so that players do not get to
> "recycle" top grade cyberware or geek them for their gearf?

I think you would usually want to include prime runners that are
stronger than the characters. This way, if the characters even get to
meet them, they will lose and then will have a score to settle with
these people or a the company they work for.

This way the characters really get involved in the storyline and may
eventually start a mission for themselves. They can find contract work
against them, or make an offer to the competition...


Besides if they sell the loot to much, the price will go down, or if
they install to much the price for the surgery will go up. That just
the way the free markt works, demand goes up, prices go up.
Or you can allways install crappy cyberware, which costs more essence
or doesn't function propperly, because it got damaged, wasn't
installed properly, ... or the surgeon ripped them off :-)

Munchkinism shouldn't be rewarded... too much.
Message no. 61
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:10:30 +0100
According to Max Noel, on Saturday 27 November 2004 14:59 the word on the
street was...

> As for looting cyberware... You have PCs who actually *do* this sort
> of things!? o.O

Min have sold more than one dead body to a street doc, but luckily their
current characters don't seem to go in for this sort of thing.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 62
From: elventear@*****.com (Pepe Barbe)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:04:05 -0600
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 13:59:17 +0000, Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:
>
> As for looting cyberware... You have PCs who actually *do* this sort
> of things!? o.O

I had a player who stabilized a fellow's PC, and sold the body to his
street doc. Afterwards he payed a decker to steal the SIN of his
fellow runner.

Pepe
Message no. 63
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:42:17 +0000
On Nov 29, 2004, at 18:04, Pepe Barbe wrote:

> I had a player who stabilized a fellow's PC, and sold the body to his
> street doc.

Er... I hope you don't actually mean that, do you? Or did he really
save the other PC's life and /then/ sell him to a street doc!?

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 64
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:11:47 -0700
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:42:17 +0000, Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:
>
> On Nov 29, 2004, at 18:04, Pepe Barbe wrote:
>
> > I had a player who stabilized a fellow's PC, and sold the body to his
> > street doc.
>
> Er... I hope you don't actually mean that, do you? Or did he really
> save the other PC's life and /then/ sell him to a street doc!?

It sounds like the stabilized PC was brain dead and that he kept the
body alive...

--
-Graht
Message no. 65
From: elventear@*****.com (Pepe Barbe)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 19:59:22 -0600
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:11:47 -0700, Graht <graht1@*****.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:42:17 +0000, Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:
> >
> > On Nov 29, 2004, at 18:04, Pepe Barbe wrote:
> >
> > > I had a player who stabilized a fellow's PC, and sold the body to his
> > > street doc.
> >
> > Er... I hope you don't actually mean that, do you? Or did he really
> > save the other PC's life and /then/ sell him to a street doc!?
>
> It sounds like the stabilized PC was brain dead and that he kept the
> body alive...

Yeah that was what happened. Actually the player of the dead PC decied
to abandon the PC once he got to deadly rather than try to save it. So
he was kind of ok with being sold.

But when he discovered that also his personality was also stolen, that
did bother him.

The problem is that once that I allowed this, some players started
thinking about this all the time. Selling bodies for whatever was
worth. And I didn't gave them that much money.

Pepe
Message no. 66
From: weberm@*******.net (Ubiquitous)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:31:12 -0500
At 01:59 PM 11/27/2004 +0000, you wrote:

> As for looting cyberware... You have PCs who actually *do* this sort
>of things!? o.O

Mine know about it but didn't want to get a rep as ghouls.
--
"Ted, sweetheart...somebody's left a wicker basket with a little baby in it
on our front doorstep."
"Just leave it out there on the stoop, honey. The cats'll get it."
- Red Meat http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/
Message no. 67
From: Toubrouk@*********.ca (Toubrouk)
Subject: Prime Runners
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:14:59 -0500
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:31:12,Ubiquitous wrote :

>
>At 01:59 PM 11/27/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>> As for looting cyberware... You have PCs who actually *do* this sort
>>>of things!? o.O
>>
>>
>
>Mine know about it but didn't want to get a rep as ghouls.
>

One of my caracter had chosen to retire after he dealt used cyberware.

He felt as he reached a new low in his morality. He stayed with the
group for a while so he can cut all the lose ends and goes into retirement.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Prime Runners, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!