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Message no. 1
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Probabilities (was A Dicey Idea)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:00:32 -0600 (MDT)
Max Rible wrote:
|
|At 07:49 10/9/96 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
|>It's come up on the list before that SRII's dice rules have
|>a small problem in that a simple +/-1 to a target number
|>radically changes the probability of success or failure.
|
|The solution my group uses (which we got from some games in Cambridge,
|England) is a modified dice rolling system. Replace the Rule of 6 with
|this:
| When you roll a 5 or a 6, roll again and add 4.

Wow! I think you've given me the break I need to deal with
another problem.

In SRII there's the problem that a TN of 6 and a TN of 7
are the same. So I've got a shaman PC in my game who
summons Force 7 Spirits. But then the F7 Spirit is more
powerful then a F6 spirit, because it has more dice for its
tests.

Take Max's solution and put in the following twist. If a 6
is rolled on the die in a test re-roll the die and add 5.
If the same die comes up a six again, re-roll and add 10.
If again, +15. If again, +20. Etc.

Example: A character roles 4 dice for a test resulting in a
2, 3, 6 and 6. He re-rolls the 6s and gets a 1 and a 6,
and adds 5 to the 1 for a *new* total of 6. The 6 is re-rolled
again, results in a 4 and is added to 10 for a *new* total of
14. The final results are 2, 3, 6 and 14.

As you can see (hopefully :) achieving a TN of 7 after
rolling a 6 is no long sure thing if you use this.

On the other hand, it's much harder to get successes on higher target
numbers.

d6 = 1-6 d6 = 1-6
d6 + 5 = 6-11 d6 + 6 = 7-12
d6 + 10 = 11-16 d6 + 12 = 13-18
d6 + 15 = 16-21 d6 + 18 = 19-24
d6 + 20 = 21-26 d6 + 24 = 25-30

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 2
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Probabilities (was A Dicey Idea)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 14:11:23 -0800
At 15:00 10/9/96 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Max Rible wrote:
>|The solution my group uses (which we got from some games in Cambridge,
>|England) is a modified dice rolling system. Replace the Rule of 6 with
>|this:
>| When you roll a 5 or a 6, roll again and add 4.

>Wow! I think you've given me the break I need to deal with
>another problem.

...

>Take Max's solution and put in the following twist. If a 6
>is rolled on the die in a test re-roll the die and add 5.
>If the same die comes up a six again, re-roll and add 10.
>If again, +15. If again, +20. Etc.

Are you suggesting making the Rule of 6 into "add 5", or are
you suggesting "a rolled 5 is 4 + another die, a rolled 6 is
5 + another die"? The former rule will just make everything
harder. The system I mentioned does keep a relatively good
fit to the general curve for Shadowrun; the latter rule
would mean a lot more of a headache for your players as they
try to remember which things to add what to.
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 3
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Probabilities (was A Dicey Idea)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 17:22:39 -0500 (EST)
>Wow! I think you've given me the break I need to deal with
>another problem.
>
>In SRII there's the problem that a TN of 6 and a TN of 7
>are the same. So I've got a shaman PC in my game who
>summons Force 7 Spirits. But then the F7 Spirit is more
>powerful then a F6 spirit, because it has more dice for its
>tests.
>
Actually, that's a problem that's cropped up in our games, but the honorable
(yeah, right) Steven Tinner has deemed a house rule that we all follow,
although it kinda sucks...

If the TN of 7 is in favor of a player, then an 8 is needed... If the TN is
in favor of the GM, NPC's, or just detrimental to the healtrh of the players
in general, then a six is needed...

No, it's not really fair, but... Niether is he...:)

-Bull-the-hating-it-when-the-odds-are-against-him-decker-turned-GM
>Take Max's solution and put in the following twist. If a 6
>is rolled on the die in a test re-roll the die and add 5.
>If the same die comes up a six again, re-roll and add 10.
>If again, +15. If again, +20. Etc.
>
>Example: A character roles 4 dice for a test resulting in a
>2, 3, 6 and 6. He re-rolls the 6s and gets a 1 and a 6,
>and adds 5 to the 1 for a *new* total of 6. The 6 is re-rolled
>again, results in a 4 and is added to 10 for a *new* total of
>14. The final results are 2, 3, 6 and 14.
>
>As you can see (hopefully :) achieving a TN of 7 after
>rolling a 6 is no long sure thing if you use this.
>
>On the other hand, it's much harder to get successes on higher target
>numbers.
>
> d6 = 1-6 d6 = 1-6
> d6 + 5 = 6-11 d6 + 6 = 7-12
> d6 + 10 = 11-16 d6 + 12 = 13-18
> d6 + 15 = 16-21 d6 + 18 = 19-24
> d6 + 20 = 21-26 d6 + 24 = 25-30
>
>-David
>
>/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
> "His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
> alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
>~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
>
>



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
-Just about everyone, in "Star Wars"
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Probabilities (was A Dicey Idea)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:59:30 -0600
Max Rible wrote:
|
|At 15:00 10/9/96 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
|
|>Take Max's solution and put in the following twist. If a 6
|>is rolled on the die in a test re-roll the die and add 5.
|>If the same die comes up a six again, re-roll and add 10.
|>If again, +15. If again, +20. Etc.
|
|Are you suggesting making the Rule of 6 into "add 5",

Yes. With the rule of six you're rolling the dice and
adding 6 if you rolled a natural six in the first place.
If you roll a natural six again you reroll and add six
again (a total of +12 + 1d6). And so on in increments of
six. I'm proposing that the rule of six be changed to use
increments of 5 instead of 6.

BTW, with this modification, as with any modification I
come up with, I am by no means preaching that there is a
problem and that it needs to be fixed. I'm only saying
that *I've* got a problem, I've come up with a solution,
and does anyone have any comments on it's playability. I
really appreciate it when it's pointed out that one of my
ideas is crap. And, my players (unknowingly) appreciate it
even more :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 5
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Probabilities (was A Dicey Idea)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:19:04 -0700
<SNIP>
> In SRII there's the problem that a TN of 6 and a TN of 7
> are the same. So I've got a shaman PC in my game who
> summons Force 7 Spirits. But then the F7 Spirit is more
> powerful then a F6 spirit, because it has more dice for its
> tests.

'Coure if he's summoning force seven and his charisma is a max of 6, he's
resisting 7S physical damage as the drain...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************

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