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Message no. 1
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:57:20 -0400
Argh.

I've been shuffled into the very uncomfortable position of team
leader, and as such, it's my duty to ask the Johnson details of the
job, planning and what not. Problem is, I'm more of a Real Man (TM)
kind of guy than anything else, but everyone else is sorta green at
this. How would I go about being a professional about this, and what
kind of questions would I ask my Johnson about a prospective run?

-----
AK404

http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 2
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:04:29 +0200
And finally, Angelkiller 404 expressed himself by writing:

> I've been shuffled into the very uncomfortable position of team
> leader, and as such, it's my duty to ask the Johnson details of the
> job, planning and what not. Problem is, I'm more of a Real Man (TM)
> kind of guy than anything else, but everyone else is sorta green at
> this. How would I go about being a professional about this, and what
> kind of questions would I ask my Johnson about a prospective run?

First, being a Teamleader isn't just asking questions during the meeting.

You have to make sure your chummers don't arrive late (driving together
to the meet helps a lot :), dress adequately, and show at least *some*
social behaviour (read the Matador file in FoF, for exampel).

During the meeting, you should get all available info on the target
of your mission (when you are going to steal something, this means
weight, size, if it's fragile etc.), the site security, etc. Don't be
afraid to ask, cause you might pay with your blood for not doing so.

You should also ask for money to buy needed special equipment, and
should get these things not from your Johnson but rather through own
connections.

Only negotiate the payment if it doesn't sound reasonable, even if
most Johnsons will play tricks on you, you can ask for more money
during mission planning/ info gathering.

Ask him for means to contact him during and after the run.

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 3
From: Paul J. Adam Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 15:22:13 +0100
In article <00c701bee152$1fe4aa80$ebd01004@************>, Angelkiller
404 <angelkiller404@**********.com> writes
>Argh.
>I've been shuffled into the very uncomfortable position of team
>leader, and as such, it's my duty to ask the Johnson details of the
>job, planning and what not. Problem is, I'm more of a Real Man (TM)
>kind of guy than anything else, but everyone else is sorta green at
>this. How would I go about being a professional about this, and what
>kind of questions would I ask my Johnson about a prospective run?

Get the details of the job. All the details. Like, if you have to
"deliver a package", find out if it's fragile, if it has to be kept one way up,
if it needs to be kept warm or cold... Don't assume your employer will
volunteer all the information.

Get a contact number, so you can call in if the job goes pear-shaped or if
your 'lightly defended' target turns out to have a battalion of Red Samurai
around it.

Either get your team there together, on time and looking competent - or
don't get them there at all. (It threw one employer when just two team
members showed to negotiate the run... turned out we were being set
up, and it's a lot harder to screw a team over when you don't know who
they all are).


As important as negotiating the job, is getting paid. This is where I've
wiped out entire teams in the past :)

Seriously - Johnson gives you a credstick, you give him the paydata, he
leaves and you discover that the credstick's a fake. Oopsie.

You turn up to the meet where you'll get paid, and walk into an ambush.
Johnson sold you out because it was more to his advantage than paying
you. Or Johnson was playing less than straight with _his_ bosses and
they're cleaning up loose ends. Or your run got compromised. Either way,
you're surrounded and outgunned...


On one occasion, as a player, a Johnson refused to pay: but he'd made the
mistake of meeting us in a remote location. Knocking him down and
pointing a gun at his face convinced him we were serious, but he still
wasn't sure.

"You're bluffing-"

Safety off and first pressure on the trigger-

"ALL RIGHT! My left jacket pocket."


Not to be recommended as a general rule, but useful: it's not good to
have a reputation either for violence towards your employer, or for being
easily cheated.



--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 4
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 15:57:54 -0400
At 23.57 08-07-99 -0400, you wrote:
>this. How would I go about being a professional about this, and what
>kind of questions would I ask my Johnson about a prospective run?

Oh, boy, "Merc 101". Been a while since I taught that....

This is the extremely-Cliff-Noted version. I may type up the full things
and stick ont he web someplace.

Professionalism (FoF does a great job with this):

1) Be presentable. That means, any team member who makes contact with
the Johnson will look, speak and act respectable and mature. That means
that you wear clothing that is non-discript (ie, no tuxs at a surf contest,
but if you are to meet in a 4-star resurant you wear a suit), clean, and in
good repair. Don't slouch. Speak clearly, avoiding the use of slang,
profanity and bad grammer, and using jargon ONLY when needed. Don't brag.
Remember your table manners. Don't show up drunk/stoned. It is a job, and
you treat it as such.

2) Don't bring up anyting illegal. Your operation may be illegal. Big
deal, don't be the first to mention it. Don't press the Johnson to admit
it either, but if it sounds pretty unambigous ("We would like you to
censure Mr. Takagi, and bring us proof that his loyalty will no longer be
an issue."), get the Johnson to say it clearly. ("The Replacement Killers"
handles this really well.)

3) Do not discuss your operation with outsiders unless you have to, in
which case you keep it as vague and need-to-know. For example, if you hire
a couple of guys to act as back-up, they only are told what they need,
nothing more. All they need to know is, for example, sit at the corner of
X-avenue and Y-street and if this beeper goes off, blow a hole in the north
perimter of the Titanocorp compound, and give us cover. If you question
someone's need, there is no question- they don't need to know.

4) Don't step outside the mission. If you are sent to grab something,
don't steal anyting else, not even a candy bar, much less the antique
statue on the boss' desk. Don't harm people gratitiously. Don't goof off.
Get in, do the job, and get out. Period.

5) Don't let the job linger. Once it is over, it is over.

Questions to ask the Johnson:

1) What kind of op is it. This should be unambigous.

2) Where/what is the target. Get everything you can, and not just form
the Johnson.. Ask the streets, your fixers, have your deckers do a couple
of gigpulse dumps, get blue prints. Does she carry a gun, and how good is
he with it (shocked the crap out of a group once to discover that Mr.
Chair-buffing Accountant also was an expert shot), does he have martial
arts training, does he have a (para)military background, amgically skilled,
carry a phone, have communications cyber, has any kind of health issues,
have odd habits. Is the package explosive/poisonous/radioactive, need
certain storage requirements, how big is it, how heavy is it.

2) What kind of oposition is there. And don't take Mr J's word for it.
Ask around, use your decker. If you can fly over it, and you have access
to a chopper, take passive sensor data (what kind of local radar do they
have, what shows up on thermography, where are the lights, where are the
gates, and take lots of visiable light images) on a SINGLE pass. Camp
outside of it looking like a street person for a few days, and watch the
actors. See if you can find someone who has worked for them recently, or
better yet, still is (I give KArma for certain forms of intel gathering).

3) What is the time table. An escential question. Never sign on for an
open-ended op. If you only have a week, then you can't wait for special
equipment much of the time. If you have a couple months, then that is the
ONLY job you do in that time, and you do research and you practice if you can.

4) How do we contact you? (The Johnson DOES NOT dirrect contact methods
for you.) There needs to be a special one for "oh, s***" situations.


As fo you new job as team leader, you have been given a serious
responsability. You are the team, as far as the Johnson is concerned. As
for as the team goes, you are "the boss". Period. If you tell Mikky the
Fin, physad and follower of Shark, to quietly take out a sentry and he uses
a grenade, make a note: "If we survive, shoot Mikky". On the operation,
you can not afford to have it turn into a debate session. You are also
reponsible if there is an internal compromise. If someone on the team
sells you out, you pull the trigger.


RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
-"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
-anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
-"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
-for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
-any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military and/or
police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)




Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 5
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 16:34:42 -0700
IronRaven wrote:

> RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
> -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
> -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
> -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
> -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
> -any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military and/or
> police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)

Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item: Where can those of us
in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major city....I'm at the Jersey Shore, for
example.) pick this stuff up?

John
Message no. 6
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:46:12 -0700
> > RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
> > -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
> > -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
> > -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
> > -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
> > -any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military
and/or
> > police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)
>
> Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item:
> Where can those of us
> in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major city....I'm at
> the Jersey Shore, for example.) pick this stuff up?

www.amazon.com
www.ebay.com

Most likely.

Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
The Revolution will not be televised; it'll be emailed.
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.
Message no. 7
From: Snake Eyes snake.eyes@********.att.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 14:08:41 -0700
At 04:34 PM 8/8/99 -0700, Penta wrote:

> > RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
> > -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
> > -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
> > -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
> > -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
> > -any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military and/or
> > police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)
>
>Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item: Where can
>those of us in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major city....I'm at
>the Jersey Shore, for example.) pick this stuff up?

For books:
http://www.amazon.com or
Http://www.barnesandnoble.com

For movies:
http://www.blockbuster.com or join the video club at
http://www.columbiahouse.com

And for the tactics stuff, check out the CD-ROM based military manuals at
http://www.uscav.com/shop/ItemDetail.asp?stk_code=WA18249

Hope some of it helps.

~ Snake Eyes
Message no. 8
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:51:54 EDT
In a message dated 8/8/99 1:35:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cpenta@*****.com
writes:

>
> Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item: Where can
> those of us
> in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major city....I'm at the Jersey
> Shore, for
> example.) pick this stuff up?
>
> John

One word. Amazon.com
Message no. 9
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 02:47:18 +0200
And finally, Snake Eyes expressed himself by writing:

> > > RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
> > > -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
> > > -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
> > > -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
> > > -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
> > > -any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military and/or
> > > police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)
> >
> >Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item:
> Where can
> >those of us in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major
> city....I'm at
> >the Jersey Shore, for example.) pick this stuff up?

<snip>

> And for the tactics stuff, check out the CD-ROM based military manuals at
> http://www.uscav.com/shop/ItemDetail.asp?stk_code=WA18249
>

try http://www.adtdl.army.mil

there are all Fieldmanuals for the US Army, and
you can download them (besides the classifieds...)

arclight
Message no. 10
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 20:59:18 -0700
Arclight wrote:

> And finally, Snake Eyes expressed himself by writing:
>
> > > > RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
> > > > -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
> > > > -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
> > > > -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
> > > > -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
> > > > -any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military and/or
> > > > police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)
> > >
> > >Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item:
> > Where can
> > >those of us in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major
> > city....I'm at
> > >the Jersey Shore, for example.) pick this stuff up?
>
> <snip>
>
> > And for the tactics stuff, check out the CD-ROM based military manuals at
> > http://www.uscav.com/shop/ItemDetail.asp?stk_code=WA18249
> >
>
> try http://www.adtdl.army.mil
>
> there are all Fieldmanuals for the US Army, and
> you can download them (besides the classifieds...)
>
> arclight

Having been there (often, tis one of my favorite sites), and witnessed
ADTDL's ODD definition of restricted, I think those are classified. Either
way...The numbers, dear light?
Message no. 11
From: Darrell L. Bowman darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 23:20:47 -0400
On 9 Aug 99, at 2:47, Arclight wrote:

> And finally, Snake Eyes expressed himself by writing:
>
> > > > RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
> > > > -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
> > > > -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
> > > > -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
> > > > -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
> > > > -any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military
> > > > and/or
> > > > police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)
> > >
> > >Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item:
> > Where can
> > >those of us in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major
> > city....I'm at
> > >the Jersey Shore, for example.) pick this stuff up?
>
> <snip>
>
> > And for the tactics stuff, check out the CD-ROM based military manuals
> > at http://www.uscav.com/shop/ItemDetail.asp?stk_code=WA18249
> >
>
> try http://www.adtdl.army.mil
>
> there are all Fieldmanuals for the US Army, and
> you can download them (besides the classifieds...)

Error 404
---
Do or Do Not, there is no try.
-- Yoda, from Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back


Nightshade, Human Racoon Shaman
or
Raven, Elven Irish Rigger with an attitude.

Darrell Bowman
darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 12
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:18:06 +0200
And finally, Penta expressed himself by writing:

> > try http://www.adtdl.army.mil
> >
> > there are all Fieldmanuals for the US Army, and
> > you can download them (besides the classifieds...)
> >
> > arclight
>
> Having been there (often, tis one of my favorite sites), and witnessed
> ADTDL's ODD definition of restricted, I think those are
> classified. Either
> way...The numbers, dear light?

Well,

Schrecklicher Sven, hier ist Ende für Dich!

Spoiler for der schreckliche Sven

s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
s
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
o
o
o
o
o
o
o
o
o
o
i
i
i
i
i
i
i
i
ler :)

Let's see...

FM 7-8 is about Infantry Rifle Platoons and Squads,
with movement techniques, formations and the
like; nice to have when your team is about
5-6 runners
FM 21-75 is about Individual Soldier Techniques, with
another chapter for demolitions and some text
regarding Urban Combat
FM 90-10-1 is about Urban Combat

these three manuals sum up to about 30MB in size, so
you might just download the Table of Contents (TOC), and
then look which parts you really need.
For taking a look into the complete available FMs, search
for "any fieldmanuals", then look into the TOCs.
Most Fieldmanuals are available either in .html or .pdf.

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 13
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:18:04 +0200
And finally, Darrel L. Bowman expressed himself by writing:

> > try http://www.adtdl.army.mil
> >
> > there are all Fieldmanuals for the US Army, and
> > you can download them (besides the classifieds...)
>
> Error 404

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/atdls.htm


is the complete URL, if this doesn't work too,
I don't know why...

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 14
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 08:56:42 -0400
At 16.34 08-08-99 -0700, you wrote:
>in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major city....I'm at the Jersey
Shore, for
>example.) pick this stuff up?

I think the LOTI Group (a law enforcement printer) is distributed by
Amazon, and I've seen their stuff in Barnes & Noble catalogs before, so
give them a try. Paladin Press is always as useful as it is scary, with
Delta Press being a little less helpful and a little more depressing. (I'm
sorry, pinups and posters of Roger's Standing Orders should not be sold on
the same page. It is like selling pork from a mosque.) Brigade
Quartermaster and Ranger Joe's both carry some manuals (and if you live at
home, they are both mostly clothing and outdoor gear, so it won't spook
your parents as much), and you can request those through thier websites.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 15
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:12:58 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Arclight <arclight@**************.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:04 AM
Subject: RE: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?


> And finally, Angelkiller 404 expressed himself by writing:
>
> > I've been shuffled into the very uncomfortable position of team
> > leader, and as such, it's my duty to ask the Johnson details of the
> > job, planning and what not. Problem is, I'm more of a Real Man (TM)
> > kind of guy than anything else, but everyone else is sorta green at
> > this. How would I go about being a professional about this, and
what
> > kind of questions would I ask my Johnson about a prospective run?
>
> First, being a Teamleader isn't just asking questions during the
meeting.
>
> You have to make sure your chummers don't arrive late (driving
together
> to the meet helps a lot :), dress adequately, and show at least *some*
> social behaviour (read the Matador file in FoF, for exampel).
>
> During the meeting, you should get all available info on the target
> of your mission (when you are going to steal something, this means
> weight, size, if it's fragile etc.), the site security, etc. Don't be
> afraid to ask, cause you might pay with your blood for not doing so.
>
> You should also ask for money to buy needed special equipment, and
> should get these things not from your Johnson but rather through own
> connections.
>
> Only negotiate the payment if it doesn't sound reasonable, even if
> most Johnsons will play tricks on you, you can ask for more money
> during mission planning/ info gathering.
>
> Ask him for means to contact him during and after the run.
>


Another question that my players always asks in a snatch and grab is if
they cannot get it back to the Johnson, for example they get hit by a
team sent to retrieve the item, would he prefer it destroyed or left?

Mockingbird
Message no. 16
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:45:46 -0500
Snake Eyes wrote:
/At 04:34 PM 8/8/99 -0700, Penta wrote:
/
/> > RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
/> > -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
/> > -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
/> > -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
/> > -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy
/> > -any good primer on small unit tactics from a western military and/or
/> > police tactical group (the stuff on the 'net sucks)
/>
/>Ok. Now for inevitable question: Especially for that last item: Where can
/>those of us in the US (but NOT in or near any sort of major city....I'm at
/>the Jersey Shore, for example.) pick this stuff up?
/
/For books:
/Http://www.barnesandnoble.com

and CDs, and Movies, and... You can find a hell of a lot at Barnes and
Noble. BTW, their short URL is http://bn.com. And FWIW, I've ordered
quite a few items from B&N, and am very satisfied with their service.

-Graht
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
Geek Code: GCS d-( ) s++:->+ a@ C++>$ US P L >++ E? W++>+++ !N o-- K-
w+ o? M- VMS? PS+(++) PE+(++) Y+ !PGP t+(++) 5+(++) X++(+++) R+>$ tv+b++ DI++++
D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
"Earn what you have been given."
Message no. 17
From: Ulrich Haupt sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:48:28 +0200
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:
<ippins>

> Either get your team there together, on time and looking competent - or
> don't get them there at all. (It threw one employer when just two team
> members showed to negotiate the run... turned out we were being set
> up, and it's a lot harder to screw a team over when you don't know who
> they all are).
I advice exactly the opposite (sorry Adam (-: )! Never sit
around the table with your Mr.Johnson(MJ). You never know
what he exactly wants from you or what he wants to do WITH you.

Our standard procedure is:
A decker with build in telephone (but can be radio as well)
and a mage(we have plenty) show up and discuss with MJ. Two
others sit at another table near the exit and the rest of
the team waits outside. All are linked with radio or by
telephone so all can hear what MJ says. The mage scans MJ
astrally seeing him telling the truth (sometimes) or casting
even 'detect lies'. And he knows his aura and can send
watchers to find him!
On team member for each entrance to the meeting location
arrives ca. 1 1/2 hours early to scan the arrea and watch
for an ambush. The others arrives about 20 minutes early.
Always record your meeting with a camera. Our decker has an
eye camera build in.

Best if you can choose the meeting point! MJ doesn't need to
see all the runners. You doesn't need to know what he wants
with 'that yellow chip' and he doesn't need to know your
recources! If he doesn't want to give you the job because
only two of you show up first ask him why and than arrange a
second meeting at another location. Since all runners can
hear what is said they know what happens. The second meeting
takes place 1/2 hours after the first at a location of your
choice. Beware of cars, drones and sattelites - use public
underground transports. If your MJ doesn't want to go to the
second meeting where all runners can show up, something is
wrong and you'd better hurry to get away. - yeah I'm a bit
paranoid but MJ is the bad boy in 8 out of 10 times.

I have seen a web site with the title _professionalism_ for
Shadowrun. I's somewhere on the webring I suppose. Anyone
knows more ?

It is always good to scan the seat where MJ sat for ritual magic.


Hope that helps

Sandman
Message no. 18
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:32:47 +0200
And finally, Ulrich Haupt expressed himself by writing:

<snip>

> Our standard procedure is:
> A decker with build in telephone (but can be radio as well)
> and a mage(we have plenty) show up and discuss with MJ. Two
> others sit at another table near the exit and the rest of
> the team waits outside. All are linked with radio or by
> telephone so all can hear what MJ says. The mage scans MJ
> astrally seeing him telling the truth (sometimes) or casting
> even 'detect lies'. And he knows his aura and can send
> watchers to find him!

I don't think a good J would let you assense his aura,
or throw a spell onto him either. A good J will choose
a location he is awaiting you, with some physical security
to protect him and magic.sec to dispell efforts from the
runner's mage.

> On team member for each entrance to the meeting location
> arrives ca. 1 1/2 hours early to scan the arrea and watch
> for an ambush. The others arrives about 20 minutes early.
> Always record your meeting with a camera. Our decker has an
> eye camera build in.

Again, no good J would let away with those pictures.

<snip>

> I have seen a web site with the title _professionalism_ for
> Shadowrun. I's somewhere on the webring I suppose. Anyone
> knows more ?

there's something like this within UCAS Online, by Vagabond
IIRC

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 19
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:37:15 -0400
At 13.48 08-10-99 +0200, you wrote:
>I advice exactly the opposite (sorry Adam (-: )! Never sit
>around the table with your Mr.Johnson(MJ). You never know

<applause> Hear-hear.

This is a team leader's job, at it's purist. Although, if you have no
formal leader, it helps to rotate folks through.

>A decker with build in telephone (but can be radio as well)
>and a mage(we have plenty) show up and discuss with MJ. Two
>others sit at another table near the exit and the rest of

Does the decker also take questions from the rest of the team? Youc an
run into danger focusing too much on what the J says, rather than watching
folks' back.

>choice. Beware of cars, drones and sattelites - use public
>underground transports. If your MJ doesn't want to go to the

Use public meeting places, if you can as well. My favorite is a sproitng
event- to much collateral if it is a hit, it's too noisy for most bugs to
be worth squat, and you can arange for the J to pick up his ticket att he
counter, placing you in control of his seating arrangements. Scares the
hell out of his bodygaurds, but that is what they get paid for.

>It is always good to scan the seat where MJ sat for ritual magic.

And have wide band directional scanner that can sniff anything he is
transmitting.



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 20
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:46:15 -0400
At 14.32 08-10-99 +0200, you wrote:
>I don't think a good J would let you assense his aura,

Sensing an aura is pretty subtle. FOr roleplaying purposes, you can drop
into the "Astral" in a couple of seconds if you good, look around, and then
be back out. Five seconds. Hide it behind a very rude yawn and an apology.

>Again, no good J would let away with those pictures.

What's he going to do, pop open your brain box and let all the air out?
You store the data on internal memory, and no one who isn't supposed to
know will ever know.
Finding out about the Johnson is a good idea. For every three hours you
spend researching the target, I would recommend spending an hour finding
out about your new sponsor. It would really suck to be a mostly meta team
who goes to drop off the sixteen pounds of weapons grade uranium and get
your payment and be met by your Mr Johnson and some firends in Humanis
robes and armed to the teeth.




Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 21
From: Ulrich Haupt sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:42:16 +0200
Arclight wrote:

> I don't think a good J would let you assense his aura,
To mask someone elses aura it needs to have access to an
initiated mage how is willing (and paid) to accompany you.
Not every J can do that!

> or throw a spell onto him either. A good J will choose
> a location he is awaiting you, with some physical security
That depends on the finances, reputation and general level
of the runners. If your runners have enough money to cut one
job the J can do nothing but look for another team or do as
the runners wish (or try to find and to (insert whatever you
want) the runners).

> to protect him and magic.sec to dispell efforts from the
> runner's mage.
That's often the case I admit but sometimes it works.


> > Always record your meeting with a camera. Our decker has an
> > eye camera build in.
>
> Again, no good J would let away with those pictures.
He must be very good to recognize a build in camera. Besides
from the spell 'locate cameras' I don't know any
possibilities. Of course if he scans them for cyberware but
that's really obvious!

If you arrive early you can hide a small camera (or plenty)

If MJ has really achieved not beeing scanned astrally or by
a spell. If he mentions that he doesn't want to be recorded
by a cyber camera (which has happened one time) our team got
up and told MJ that he does really not need the runners
help. He obviously plays in a higher league (sp?). That job
seemed to hot for our team.

Of course that depends on the money and how much the team
needs money. If you need the money you have to risk something.

Sandman
Message no. 22
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:40:27 +0200
And finally, IronRaven expressed himself by writing:

> Sensing an aura is pretty subtle. FOr roleplaying
> purposes, you can drop
> into the "Astral" in a couple of seconds if you good, look
> around, and then
> be back out. Five seconds. Hide it behind a very rude yawn and
> an apology.

Let him bring two watchers, and he knows.

> >Again, no good J would let away with those pictures.
>
> What's he going to do, pop open your brain box and let all
> the air out?
> You store the data on internal memory, and no one who isn't supposed to
> know will ever know.

As it really is hard to spot these system, I assume that a better
J would find out about the runners before chosing to contact them
for a meet. He should know the general abilities of every single
runner in the group by then, as his is IMO the info he needs to
pick a team for a job.

> Finding out about the Johnson is a good idea. For every
> three hours you
> spend researching the target, I would recommend spending an hour finding
> out about your new sponsor. It would really suck to be a mostly
> meta team
> who goes to drop off the sixteen pounds of weapons grade uranium and get
> your payment and be met by your Mr Johnson and some firends in Humanis
> robes and armed to the teeth.

This is something players should worry about indeed.

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 23
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:40:29 +0200
And finally, Ulrich Haupt expressed himself by writing:

> > I don't think a good J would let you assense his aura,
>
> To mask someone elses aura it needs to have access to an
> initiated mage how is willing (and paid) to accompany you.
> Not every J can do that!

Not masking, just making sure he knows when your mage tries.
I would see assensing my aura as a violation of manners and
stop negotiating with that bunch of little <insert favorite
bad word here> and walk away.

> > or throw a spell onto him either. A good J will choose
> > a location he is awaiting you, with some physical security
>
> That depends on the finances, reputation and general level
> of the runners. If your runners have enough money to cut one
> job the J can do nothing but look for another team or do as
> the runners wish (or try to find and to (insert whatever you
> want) the runners).

So why shouldn't he behave like that? There are a lot more
runners out there. Ever thought about the possibility that
the J asking you to do a job contacted someone else before?

> > to protect him and magic.sec to dispell efforts from the
> > runner's mage.
>
> That's often the case I admit but sometimes it works.

If you get away with things like these, the J sucks IMO,
and so do job and payment.

<snip>

> a spell. If he mentions that he doesn't want to be recorded
> by a cyber camera (which has happened one time) our team got
> up and told MJ that he does really not need the runners
> help. He obviously plays in a higher league (sp?). That job
> seemed to hot for our team.

A though J would just make sure you cannot record him.

I don't think camera footage, knowing his astral signature
and things like that are effective to locate the guy who fraged
you before, otherwise every Johnson would start preventing you
from doing so.
So you have some decent pics and your mage assensed him,
a "Detect Lies" made sure he said the truth, partial truth or
something like the truth ;). But what if he guy negotiating the
deal was specially instructed and really believed the misinformation
he was given too? If he's just the poor slot _meeting_ the crap
doing jobs for _his employer_? The info he gave away was wrong?
Oh well, so in that case you can trace him by magic to that
little condo he lives with wive, 1 1/2 kids and you blow away
the door to cut and torch him for fragging you?

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 24
From: K. Suderman suderman@*****.ocean.fsu.edu
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:08:16 -0400
Recently my players (in a rare moment of security consciousness) wore an
earplug radio set to broadcast to a meet. When Mr. J noticed it
(immediately on a stellar perception roll), he excused himself, "Sorry, I
thought you were someone else," and headed out the door. [A broadcasting
radio is the same as a bug. The meet was compromised. imho.]
I think the Corp sends Mr. J to maintain deniability. If Mr. J gets
photographed, videoed, recorded, fingerprinted, assensed, etc., he is less
deniable. Professional paranoia would dictate a certain shyness around
listening/recording devices.
Some of my Johnsons also carry white-noise generators or jammers for the
same reason. [One of my players whipped out his white-noise generator at a
meet. No problem. On the next run, I found out it was a sculptured water
fountain. Pocket size??? I love my players...]

Keith

>Our standard procedure is:
>A decker with build in telephone (but can be radio as well)
>and a mage(we have plenty) show up and discuss with MJ. Two
>others sit at another table near the exit and the rest of
>the team waits outside. All are linked with radio or by
>telephone so all can hear what MJ says.


Keith Suderman suderman@*****.fsu.edu
Florida State University 850-980-3218
Department of Oceanography
Message no. 25
From: Andy Minor andyman@****.pyro.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:07:32 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "Arclight" <arclight@**************.com>
> Subject: RE: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
>
> I don't think a good J would let you assense his aura,
> or throw a spell onto him either. A good J will choose
> a location he is awaiting you, with some physical security
> to protect him and magic.sec to dispell efforts from the
> runner's mage.

An easy fix for keeping this information from the Johnson is to have your
mage on the sidelines somewhere, perhaps at another table than the
Johnson's table. S/he can be on the communicator with the rest of the
team, and be using a Detect Lies spell (which targets the mage, BTW; the
target of the spell gets the lie detection ability out to the range of the
spell, so you don't have to actually cast a spell on the J, just on
yourself).

The Johnson's primary focus of attention should be the runners he knows
about, so if your mage isn't one of those people, you can get a lot more
magical surveillance with a lot less hassle.

Andy

--
Andyman
Andyman@****.net
Message no. 26
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT)
Just one comment on the assensing issue.

ANY Johnson (except for the lowest of the low end) is likely to have
magical support of some kind. The best in most cases would likely be a
spirit who's been told to obey the Johnson and to perform astral
overwatch the rest of the time, notifying Mr. J if someone goes astral
nearby.

How the Johnson reacts should really depend on what you do. ALL
Johnsons should expect a bit of paranoia on the part of the runners, so
they should usually expect them to try to assense them. Personally, if
I was a Johnson and I hired a team who DIDN'T try to assense me, I'd be
worried that I wasn't getting professionals. Mr. J's shouldn't walk out
just because you try to assense him.

An example of a good way to do things is from a game the Brisbanites
and I (tried to) play last Thursday night. I was playing the street
mage (complete with three foot tall blue mohawk and skimpy leathers)
and I assensed the Johnson when he wasn't looking. First thing I saw,
though, was a big, nasty (probably free) spirit shaking its finger at
me. So I shrugged and gave up.

So the Johnson keeps his privacy and sees that we're professional
enough to try to dig for all the info we can. The only drawback was
that I didn't get my data. But I could live with that.

If, on the other hand, I'd ignored the spirit and kept digging, Mr. J
would have been right to walk away - probably after having the spirit
pummel me severely about the head and shoulders.

*Doc' gets this "underclad elf lady" thing going with the troll bouncer...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 27
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:55:04 -0400
At 20.40 08-10-99 +0200, you wrote:
>Let him bring two watchers, and he knows.

It is no different than checking him from weapons. You aren't looking at
his ass, you are just looking to see if he armed. (I've gotten smacked
once or twice for that.)

>As it really is hard to spot these system, I assume that a better
>J would find out about the runners before chosing to contact them

The Johnson only knows about that which you choose to make public. If
only you, your team and your doc know about your trick eye, you've just
limited your leaks right there. If there is a leak, you never know what
else might be compromised- find it, fix it.

>for a meet. He should know the general abilities of every single

That isn't a general ability. Things like optics are rarely a person's
selling point, unless you give the Johnson a documentry of the op, which is
if it is asked for, is a sign you don't want the money too badly.




Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 28
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:41:51 -0400
At 15.08 08-10-99 -0400, you wrote:
>earplug radio set to broadcast to a meet. When Mr. J noticed it
>(immediately on a stellar perception roll), he excused himself, "Sorry, I
>thought you were someone else," and headed out the door. [A broadcasting

Sounds like the Johnson has a corncob stuck someplace. At least that
runner was being politely obvious about his backup. If a J thinks you are
going into a place cold, sans backup, then you don't want to work for him,
becuase he will get you killed and pocket the payment. Personally, I would
have said that the ear-bud was tacky and cheap looking, but that's just me.

>deniable. Professional paranoia would dictate a certain shyness around
>listening/recording devices.

New face, prints and voice can be had in about as long as it takes to
heal. Its all part of the game, and it goes both ways. Someone brings a
bug, somoeone brings a detector, everyone has heavies for backup and a gun
in thier pocket and car outside to evac if the deal goes bad.
(Which was the basis for a wonderful scene that did not go as planned.
I'm on a roof across the street from the meet, when someone comes out of
the door behind me. I spin around, gun in hand, while he brings his to his
shoulder. I challange with "Johnson, party of four for 1500?" He says,
slightly shocked, "Uh, yah, are with the guys the boss is meeting?" "Yep.
There is a nice apartment, two floors down at the end of the hall with a
great view and no one home right now, but I'm allergic to thier dog. It's
just as good as the roff without the top exposure." "Uh, thanks, but I'm
allergic to them too. Flip you for it." "Naw, we can share the roof, and
if it goes bad, we'll findout who is faster." After a wait for a few
miuntes, I stage wisper to him "Hey, you didn't see the score in the Red
Sox game before you came up, did you.?" Totally blew the GM's concentration.)
If someone doesn't like how the trade works, they should talk to the
manager at thier local McDonald's.
I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm being honest.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 29
From: Arclight arclight@**************.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:16:33 +0200
And finally, IronRaven expressed himself by writing:

<snip>

> It is no different than checking him from weapons. You
> aren't looking at
> his ass, you are just looking to see if he armed. (I've gotten smacked
> once or twice for that.)

So you just said that looking for weapons and astrally perceiving
(and therefore being able to find him by his signature later) is the
same? Sorry, don't think so...

> >As it really is hard to spot these system, I assume that a better
> >J would find out about the runners before chosing to contact them
>
> The Johnson only knows about that which you choose to make
> public. If
> only you, your team and your doc know about your trick eye, you've just
> limited your leaks right there. If there is a leak, you never know what
> else might be compromised- find it, fix it.

From "Corporate Security" (abb. CS?), I learned that at least bigger corps
have databases they file used and to-be-used runners. The more important
the job, the harder they'll scan possible personnel. And if, for example,
you are in Yak-country, IMO the street docs there are into family anyway,
and will file whom they implanted what.

At least in my campaigns, runners are in a world of hurt, and will have
no chance against a decent J. I, as a J, wouldn't want people I do business
with (and are paid by me) walz in, scan me by magic means, make a body-
excavations check for guns or tech, then -as nothing has happened- suddenly
behave like normal businessmen, and negotiate for more money.
And when we meet after they finished the job, and messed up royally but
bring the nifty-gadget-thingTM I want, stick a gun into my nose 'cause
I am not willing to pay them the full cred.
Therefore, I'll locate the meet where I want it to be, bring magical
security
to be safe from the teams mage, big trolls with shotguns for the Sam,
and activate that big jammer to make sure nobody, including my corporate
enemy, can broadcast what the job is about.
This is also better for the runners, as the Corp they robbed will just
stop chasing them when the package is delivered. As they don't know me,
what is the point besides revenge?

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 30
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:15:37 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to IronRaven."
<snip>

] RECOMENDED READING/VIEWING LIST:
] -"Ronin" (movie) (Few movies get it "righter")
] -anything by Gayle Rivers, esp. "The Proffesional"
] -"Dogs of War", and most of Forsyth's other books
] -for strategic stuff, Tom Clancy

Speaking of Tom Clancy, I'm currently reading Rainbow Six, which has,
as the opposition, a group akin to Winternight, or perhaps a conspiracy
of Toxic Avengers. Worth checking out.

-------------------------------------------
PLEASE WATCH YOUR STEP
NICK UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Message no. 31
From: Angel Ramos T. angelramos@*****.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:46:02 -0400
Archlight worte:

> So you just said that looking for weapons and astrally perceiving
> (and therefore being able to find him by his signature later) is the
> same? Sorry, don't think so...

I agree with Archlight, I wouldn´t let anyone seeing my aura if I could.

> From "Corporate Security" (abb. CS?), I learned that at least bigger corps
> have databases they file used and to-be-used runners. The more important
> the job, the harder they'll scan possible personnel.

[snip example]

> This is also better for the runners, as the Corp they robbed will just
> stop chasing them when the package is delivered. As they don't know me,
> what is the point besides revenge?
>

This could be tricky, I believe, since there is always who has seen you or
known you and if the corp was really hurt by the run it could as well take
the time and pain to find out you and frag you big time.


Angel Ramos
Message no. 32
From: K. Suderman suderman@*****.ocean.fsu.edu
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 14:36:29 -0400
>>earplug radio set to broadcast to a meet. When Mr. J noticed it
>>(immediately on a stellar perception roll), he excused himself, "Sorry, I
>>thought you were someone else," and headed out the door. [A broadcasting
>
> Sounds like the Johnson has a corncob stuck someplace.

I would agree absolutely. A common occupational hazard...

>>deniable. Professional paranoia would dictate a certain shyness around
>>listening/recording devices.
>
> New face, prints and voice can be had in about as long as it takes to
>heal.

It takes just three seconds for the Corp Court Investigative Team to ruin
your day. And if you've just been broadcast and recorded making an illegal
arrangement, your own corporation has no choice but to deny your existence,
along with the deniable assets you were sent to hire (or to grease a few
palms in the Corp Court- but that really looks bad on the expense report...).

> It's all part of the game, and it goes both ways. Someone brings a
>bug, somoeone brings a detector, everyone has heavies for backup and a gun
>in thier pocket and car outside to evac if the deal goes bad.

Yep, each side is trying to get the better deal: more money, more intel,
less risk, etc. When the risk exceeds the benefits, somebody walks.
[Perhaps (some of) my Johnsons are overly skittish. I'm trying to
demonstrate to my players that they *can* turn down bad jobs... Whatever-
they still haven't realized that they can retreat when a firefight gets too
hot...]

> If someone doesn't like how the trade works, they should talk to the
>manager at thier local McDonald's.
> I'm not trying to be nasty, I'm being honest.

My interpretation of the Corp Court is pretty aggressive. I picture them
running periodic sting operations (against the smaller Corps, of course),
investigating high-media-exposure shadowruns (though 'shadow' doesn't
really apply once the media gets involved), and generally making life tough
for Mr. Johnson. ymmv.

Keith

btw, nice rooftop scene. NPCs with more depth than 'attack until dead' are
such a pleasure.


Keith Suderman suderman@*****.fsu.edu
Florida State University 850-980-3218
Department of Oceanography
Message no. 33
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:36:06 -0400
At 21.16 08-11-99 +0200, you wrote:
>So you just said that looking for weapons and astrally perceiving
>(and therefore being able to find him by his signature later) is the
>same? Sorry, don't think so...

It is. Threat analysis, pure and simple.
If you don't want to let your players do it, fine, but I'm glad you're not
my GM.

>From "Corporate Security" (abb. CS?), I learned that at least bigger corps
>have databases they file used and to-be-used runners. The more important

Your point, in reference to eye cameras and other less-than tactical
equipement, is?
If the Johnson asks you for ops footage, and you can't tralk your way out
of it, then tell him that it came from a headcam, not an eye-cam. Thinks
like spurs and owning a tank would be on record, simply becuase they are
readily identifiable, but unless you allow the Johnson to find out about
something, and unless you have leak, you can keep things secret, if you
work at it.
The GM has to know everything about the PCs. The NPCs should not.

>you are in Yak-country, IMO the street docs there are into family anyway,
>and will file whom they implanted what.

OK, so what if you come from outside that area, or you go outside your
area to get your work done. If I ran in Seattle, as myself not as a PC, I
would locate a street doc locally for things like gunshots, and then a
couple at least a thousand miles ways, one for plastic surgery and one for
implants.
Then again, I don't think like a runner, I link like a merc. Runners are,
as a rule, fools, disposable cannon fooder, to be ordered, used and finally
disposed of like a cheap pen.

>no chance against a decent J. I, as a J, wouldn't want people I do business
>with (and are paid by me) walz in, scan me by magic means, make a body-
>excavations check for guns or tech, then -as nothing has happened- suddenly

"Body excavations"? I don't pat people down on the street, much less do a
cavity search, but I do scan them for weapons bulges, body langueage and
other tell-tales.
As for how your Johnsons operate, remember, the runners don't like you
very damn much, and they expect you to try and screw them. If you can't
deal with them taking the same precautions that you take towards them
(muscle across the street, astral sensors, tape recorders), I suggest you
find a nice safe job in accounting and not leave there. Mercs and thier
contractors have a contractor-contractee relationship that is built on
mutual distrust and an acknowledgement that they are both pros. Break that
achnoledgement, and they will walk, if needed, by exercising the abort
clause int her contract ten minutes beforet hey are to hit the target.
(You don't have to pay them the remainder, but sending out H-K teams will
become "public", and you will never hire pros again.)

>behave like normal businessmen, and negotiate for more money.

It's done every damn day in every major population center on this planet.
If you want to hire street thugs and gang drop-outs, fine, treat them like
crap. If you want to hire proffesionals, treat them properly.
From the way it sounds, most of my PCs would walk out of the room if I was
in your game. If the J's goons took offense, then he gets a free
demostration.

>And when we meet after they finished the job, and messed up royally but
>bring the nifty-gadget-thingTM I want, stick a gun into my nose 'cause

Primary mission objective was the recovery of this "gadget-thing"? If the
PMO is attained and there was no secondaries or operational proceedure
requirements, then the Johnson better not complain, becuase they took the
risk, not him and not his company.
Ripping off mercs is like ripping off assassians, only assassians are a
special kind of merc that usually works alone or in pairs.

>to be safe from the teams mage, big trolls with shotguns for the Sam,
>and activate that big jammer to make sure nobody, including my corporate

But you whine when they do the same?

>This is also better for the runners, as the Corp they robbed will just

If they practice opsec, then the target will not know who they were, and
if they do, will not know that they have handed over the item. Unless the
contractee talks. Which will kill the company's reputation. No one works
for a company that turns out it's own people or even the independent
contractors the use. That is NOT a "part of the job". That is
unprofessional and no one in the trade would think too poorly of a
contractor who action against that company.




Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 34
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:36:13 -0400
At 20.40 08-10-99 +0200, you wrote:
>I would see assensing my aura as a violation of manners and
>stop negotiating with that bunch of little <insert favorite

Is not your mage trying the same thing at the same time? If my group's
mage mentioned it, I would call it professional paranoia. If the J got
huffy becuase my mage tried the same trick, I'd tell him to have a nice
life and to pass a message on to his boss that until they can practice
professional curticy (sp), not bother me or my team again.

>So why shouldn't he behave like that? There are a lot more
>runners out there. Ever thought about the possibility that

Yes, there are more. The horse can jump the hurdle, shoot the horse.
Eventually you find one that can jump the hurdle, or you run out of horses.
Hire cheap thugs if you want. They will fail, and suceed only in alerting
the target. I ask if there has previous attempts at this mission, and if
there have, the price goes up 10% per failed attempted, with an additional
10% if it a dry hole if we are third team to try it. (Two attacks on a
facility that only holds a few things worth stealing? I'm going to move
whatever is improtant if I'm the head of security there.)

>If you get away with things like these, the J sucks IMO,
>and so do job and payment.

Your funeral.
Johnsons have money and need. Mercs have talent and resources. If your
Johnson doesn't treat you like an equal, you shouldn't be interested.

>A though J would just make sure you cannot record him.

How?

>he was given too? If he's just the poor slot _meeting_ the crap

So runners and mercs are "crap"?
Your J's must have a real low efficency rating, or your players must not
have any experince with any form of contracting, or the PC have no self
esteem nor professional pride. Even if you are looking for a carpenter or
a house painter, much less a merc, if you go into a deal with that
attitude, you are not going to get talent.

>little condo he lives with wive, 1 1/2 kids and you blow away
>the door to cut and torch him for fragging you?

No, but you follow him to see who he works for and let snippets of your
tale of woe circulate in the commuinty. Some runners are dogs who can't be
trusted, but most of them play by the rules of the game, and if you let
your buddy walk into a bad deal, don't be suprised if you get a knife in
your kidney some night.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 35
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:44:54 -0400
At 14.36 08-14-99 -0400, you wrote:
>btw, nice rooftop scene. NPCs with more depth than 'attack until dead' are
>such a pleasure.

Thanks. I can bore a munchkin half to death in about ten miuntes, and
then throw him into a situation where the PC, never mind the player, is
becoming of the opinion that if they survive, they are going to find a
nice, quite job someplace and retire from the shadows. (I make players of
all kinds sweat.)


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."
Message no. 36
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> My interpretation of the Corp Court is pretty aggressive. I picture
them running periodic sting operations (against the smaller Corps, of
course), investigating high-media-exposure shadowruns (though 'shadow'
doesn't really apply once the media gets involved), and generally
making life tough for Mr. Johnson. ymmv.
> Keith

Really? Why? I always pictured the Corp Court as an organisation
dedicated to making life easier for their members (and the other corps,
if it doesn't hurt the member corps). The stuff you're talking about
would be too risky to the members for them to agree to it (what if they
started investigating one of your "high-media-exposure" runs and it
turns out that it was one of the member corps? The other point is that
to do that kind of stuff would require a certain amount of agreement
and cooperation in the Court - and that ain't gonna happen unless
they're dealing with something that's hurt (or will hurt) a majority of
the members. Like the Aztlan privatising of corp assets.

My view of the Corp Court is a CYA organisation, not a corp watchdog.
Why do you think it's a watchdog?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 37
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:41:43 -0400
><Snippola(TM)>
>> My interpretation of the Corp Court is pretty aggressive. I
picture
>them running periodic sting operations (against the smaller Corps, of
>course), investigating high-media-exposure shadowruns (though
'shadow'
>doesn't really apply once the media gets involved), and generally
>making life tough for Mr. Johnson. ymmv.
>> Keith
>
>Really? Why? I always pictured the Corp Court as an organisation
>dedicated to making life easier for their members (and the other
corps,
>if it doesn't hurt the member corps). The stuff you're talking about
>would be too risky to the members for them to agree to it (what if
they
>started investigating one of your "high-media-exposure" runs and it
>turns out that it was one of the member corps? The other point is
that
>to do that kind of stuff would require a certain amount of agreement
>and cooperation in the Court - and that ain't gonna happen unless
>they're dealing with something that's hurt (or will hurt) a majority
of
>the members. Like the Aztlan privatising of corp assets.
>
>My view of the Corp Court is a CYA organisation, not a corp watchdog.
>Why do you think it's a watchdog?


Well, not a watchdog, per se, but more as a way of keeping the status
quo, IMHO. Sort of like the US Supreme Court; it was never made to
make our lives any easier, just more orderly. I really can't explain
it, but I've always seen the Corp Court as an "old boys' Club," for
lack of a better term. Something on political elites, and the goal of
keeping the machine running, regardless of who's at the
helm...(answering mail at 3AM isn't very healthy for the brain ^^).

-----
AK404

http://freespeech.org/ak404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"You fool, pain is my friend! Allow me to introduce you to him!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!"
Message no. 38
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*******.com.au
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:14:08 +1000
>Well, not a watchdog, per se, but more as a way of keeping the status
>quo, IMHO. Sort of like the US Supreme Court; it was never made to
>make our lives any easier, just more orderly. I really can't explain
>it, but I've always seen the Corp Court as an "old boys' Club," for
>lack of a better term. Something on political elites, and the goal of
>keeping the machine running, regardless of who's at the
>helm...(answering mail at 3AM isn't very healthy for the brain ^^).

That's roughly my view of it too; an old-boys club of people who'd like
nothing better than to see each other dead. Combined with that, I think it
has the function of keeping the 'little guy' down; making sure that the
megas keep their glorified position.

On that note, has anyone noticed an apparent discrepancy in recent
corporate history? Novatech scored a board seat by making certain that it
kept the Fuchi subsidiary that was actually entitled to that seat. So, if
the seats rest with particular corporations, how did Cross and Wuxing get
on the board?

(Not _necessarily_ nitpicking; if there's a reason and I missed it, I'd
just like my memory refreshed...)

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *
Message no. 39
From: K. Suderman suderman@*****.ocean.fsu.edu
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:49:33 -0400
At 12:19 AM 8/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
><Snippola(TM)>
>> My interpretation of the Corp Court is pretty aggressive. I picture
>them running periodic sting operations (against the smaller Corps, of
>course), investigating high-media-exposure shadowruns (though 'shadow'
>doesn't really apply once the media gets involved), and generally
>making life tough for Mr. Johnson. ymmv.
>> Keith
>
>Really? Why? I always pictured the Corp Court as an organisation
>dedicated to making life easier for their members (and the other corps,
>if it doesn't hurt the member corps). The stuff you're talking about
>would be too risky to the members for them to agree to it (what if they
>started investigating one of your "high-media-exposure" runs and it
>turns out that it was one of the member corps?

Then somebody gets their hand slapped privately. No one outside the Court
ever knows about it (ideally).

>The other point is that
>to do that kind of stuff would require a certain amount of agreement
>and cooperation in the Court - and that ain't gonna happen unless
>they're dealing with something that's hurt (or will hurt) a majority of
>the members. Like the Aztlan privatising of corp assets.

I have a similar debate with the other GM in my group. She treats
corporations as monolithic entities, ponderously pursuing their goals. I
think individuals within the Corps have more leeway- they exceed corporate
policy when it suits their needs. (The Truth (tm) lies somewhere between,
but it makes for such good discussion...)
I picture a bunch of Cigarette-Smoking Persons in a dim room. Person 1
says "Four of our subsidiaries were plagued with some rather unusual
problems last month. Did any of your patrons order runs against them?"
Everyone denies it (of course). Person 1 continues "So it must have been
one of the smaller corps striking against us. Then no one will mind if I
send an Investigator?" Everyone mumbles assent- to disagree implies guilt
(besides, the assets used were quite deniable).

>My view of the Corp Court is a CYA organisation, not a corp watchdog.
>Why do you think it's a watchdog?
>==>Doc'

To be honest (Truth (tm) comes out...), my views on the Corp Court (and the
behavior of Johnsons and so many other things) are still pretty vague. I'm
trying hard to find the right level of paranoia, logical consistency,
playability, etc. Thanks to everyone for helping.

Keith


Keith Suderman suderman@*****.fsu.edu
Florida State University 850-980-3218
Department of Oceanography
Message no. 40
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Professionalism and what Questions do I ask?
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:55:38 CST
> I picture a bunch of Cigarette-Smoking Persons in a dim room. Person 1
>says "Four of our subsidiaries were plagued with some rather unusual
>problems last month. Did any of your patrons order runs against them?"
>Everyone denies it (of course). Person 1 continues "So it must have been
>one of the smaller corps striking against us. Then no one will mind if I
>send an Investigator?" Everyone mumbles assent- to disagree implies guilt
>(besides, the assets used were quite deniable).


Heh. That's kinda funny. And it gives me an idea...

Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


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