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From:	Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject:	PSI: Cyberpsionics
Date:	Sat, 16 Jul 1994 01:00:53 -0400

Message no. 1 (regarding Adam Getchell's thoughs on psionic energy travelling over
phone lines)

In answering this, I think I may have come up with another reason
why Psionics get access to the Astral.
Mental energy, in its pure (internal) or psi-transmitted
(external) forms, cannot travel over phone lines as far as we know.
However, it _can_ (if you beleive in Psi at all) travel over vast
distances with no appreciable lag time.
Think of the stories about people who suddenly _knew_ that a
loved one had died on the other side of the world, within seconds of the
actual time of death. Think of Ben Kenobi, riding in the Millinium
Falcon in hyperspace, suddenly feeling a vast disturbance in the Force
when the Death Star destroyed Alderaan. Think of me, knowing before the
fact that a lot of people are going to be curious about my .sig,
especially since I don't sound pissed after all (well, okay, that's just
human nature. But you get the idea.)
See what I'm leading up to?
Psionic energy travels through the Astral Plane. A psi cannot
affect those not in the immediate vicinity (LOS) unless they know the
person personally (family, friend, etc. -- maybe some modifiers on
that?), mainly due to the fallability of the human mind (oops, I didn't
get the CEO of Fuchi, but I _did_ get his sixth cousin!)
Those especially endowed with psychic ability can access the
Astral directly. Remember, the energy does not come _from_ the astral,
it just goes _through_ the astral -- sorta the inverse of the way magic
works. Not being a conciousness, this psychic power is not affected by
the same things what affect a mage in Astral space -- it'll go through
anything, go anywhere, as long as the controlling mind directs it
correctly in the first place.
And, since Astral beings travel at the speed of thought, it makes
sense that thoughts in the astral would _have_ to travel at the speed of
thought as well....

J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com>
(Excuse me if I sound pissed -- my best friend is making a gigantic
mistake and I'm going to have to help her get over him when he dumps her
again. Please don't ask; I just wanted to explain.)

From:	kyle kohler <kkohler@**.UCR.EDU>
Subject:	Re: PSI: Cyberpsionics
Date:	Fri, 15 Jul 1994 22:33:03 -0700

Message no. 2 > Psionic energy travels through the Astral Plane. A psi cannot
> affect those not in the immediate vicinity (LOS) unless they know the
> person personally (family, friend, etc. -- maybe some modifiers on
> that?), mainly due to the fallability of the human mind (oops, I didn't
> get the CEO of Fuchi, but I _did_ get his sixth cousin!)

But now we get into the problem of Astral Space. If Psionics
travel via Astral, then the energy can be seen by anyone astrally
active. They can then trace it back and theoretically nail the
Psionicist with a spell by pumping it through the conduit to the Astral
Plane opened by the use of the Psionic Power. This means involving the
Psionicist in Astral Stuff way before Initiation. This also means that
I'm going to get than damn ulcer sooner than I though,

> Those especially endowed with psychic ability can access the
> Astral directly. Remember, the energy does not come _from_ the astral,
> it just goes _through_ the astral -- sorta the inverse of the way magic
> works. Not being a conciousness, this psychic power is not affected by
> the same things what affect a mage in Astral space -- it'll go through
> anything, go anywhere, as long as the controlling mind directs it
> correctly in the first place.

And if the Psionic Power is sustained, that means an open portal
to the Astral, which means if someone in Astral Space gets pissed off ay
ya', KABLOOIEEEE.

> And, since Astral beings travel at the speed of thought, it makes
> sense that thoughts in the astral would _have_ to travel at the speed of
> thought as well....
>
> J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com>
> (Excuse me if I sound pissed -- my best friend is making a gigantic
> mistake and I'm going to have to help her get over him when he dumps her
> again. Please don't ask; I just wanted to explain.)
>

I know the feeling, mein freund.

Kyle Kohler

Duplication of this .sig without the expressed written consent of
NASCAR is against the law.

From:	Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject:	PSI: Cyberpsionics
Date:	Sat, 16 Jul 1994 21:13:40 -0400

Message no. 3 On Sat, 16 Jul 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Jul 1994, Darth Vader wrote:
>
> > I agree, cyberpsionics(inthe matrix) are too far fetched, lets stick to
> > moving the good old cyberfingers with mind of matter :)
>
> Cyberpsionics does not effect the matrix. It never was proposed to
> effect the matrix. It was proposed to effect other people and use the
> matrix as a transfer medium, which DOES make sense.
>
I think it may well make more sense to use the Astral (or
something related) for transmission of psychic engergies, and consider
the Matrix just another way of recognizing another psyche.

From:	Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: PSI: Cyberpsionics
Date:	Sun, 17 Jul 1994 02:29:45 -0700

Message no. 4 On Sat, 16 Jul 1994, Jai Tao wrote:

lag time. > Think of the stories about people who suddenly _knew_ that a >
loved one had died on the other side of the world, within seconds of the >

Errr, *most* thoughts travel at 300 meters per second through
your neural pathways. If you look at your example above, the diameter of
the earth is ~10,000 km, and since that is the maximum possible
separation distance on the earth, that would give a "psi propagation"
speed of, at most, 10,000 km/sec, or .03c.
And I won't even discuss _Star Wars_ as an accurate source for
psionics.
E.E. Doc Smith already wrote about the "transfinite" speed of
thought, but that was in the '20s. People don't seem to get that the
speed of light REALLY is a universal speed limit. Even Shadowrun's
Astral Space doesn't break this limit.
And if psi has access to Astral Space, what makes it different
from magic? The Awakening occurred when A-space opened, and magic is
essentially the manipulation of Astral Energies. If Psi propagates
through Astral Space, then it's really just Controlling Manipulations,
not an entirely new discipline.

>when the Death Star destroyed Alderaan. Think of me, knowing before the >

Yes, but you *communicated* the information over e-mail, people
didn't "just sense a great disturbance in the Force".

the energy does not come _from_ the astral, > it just goes _through_ the
astral -- sorta the inverse of the way magic > works. Not being a

Sorry, anything that propagates *through* something has to
transfer energy to it, with the sole exception of light, which has special
properties due to QM interactions of photons. If psi travels through
Astral space, it has an astral energy component, in which case it's
really just a Controlling Manipulation. And even light usually transfers
energy to its media, it just doesn't *have* to, unlike water or acoustic
waves.
And the hypothesis of psi affecting people you know smacks a lot
of the Law of Similiarity (read P.E.I. Bonewitz' book _Real Magic_;
Bonewitz is the only guy I know that has a Bachelor's of Thaumaturgy from
Berkeley).
I, personally, don't see a consistent way to make "Cyberpsionics"
work and separate psi from magic.

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+

From:	Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.EFN.ORG>
Subject:	Re: PSI: Cyberpsionics
Date:	Sun, 17 Jul 1994 08:43:06 -0700

Message no. 5 Thanks Adam,

Another good piece of work. Excellence seems to be a habit of
yours. Added to Doktor Doom's endeavour,
and the Note From DLoH we seem to have reached two complete sides.

It is fun watching them though. Watch the "PSIber-Run" system grow and
mutate! <grin>

Ivy

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