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Message no. 1
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: PSI: Some more babbling
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 00:50:30 +0100
Mr. X asked me to post a more complete concept of what I am talking
about, so I'll babble a bit more.

-------------------------------------------

1) Create a new category for character creation. This category is
similiar to the 'magic' category. Depending on the letter you
put in here, will determine your ability.

NOTE: I don't know if the creation of a 'F' letter is good or not.

Human Status Meta Status
--------- --------- --------- ---------
E Full E N/A
D Adept D Full
C Wild C Adept
B -- B Wild
A -- A --

The number of magic points you start out with (from your Tech/Magic
category) is the number of psi-points you start out with. If a person
has both magic and psi ability, the tech/magic points are used for both.

DEFINITIONS
-----------
Discipline This is a 'category' of abilities. Telekinesis is a
category that represents several similiar abilities.
Diciplines do not have ratings.
Ability This represents a specific psi-skill related to the
discipline. For example, Mind Wipe is an ability under
the category Telepathy. Abilities have ratings.
Astral This is the ability to project ones psychic image into
astral space (commonly called an 'out of body
expierience.') This is identical to the ability that
hermetics and shamans possess (although the mechanics are
a little different).

PSI Ratings
-----------
Full Unlimited number of disciplines
Unlimited number of abilities
Astral Perception
Adept Only one Discipline
Unlimited number of abilities (within Discipline)
No Astral Perception
Wild One discipline
One ability (within Discipline)
No Astral Perception

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, let's say that I am creating a new character. He's Troll and has a
'D' rating in Psionics. I've assigned a 'C' rating for Tech/Magic.
Since I dont' have my book with me, I'm going to guestamate and say that
that gives him 35 magic points (plus cash).

The next step is to 'buy' all of my disciplines and abilities.

So let's say that I want the diciplines that allow me to project force
(telekinesis), manipulate minds (telepathy) and manipulate my own body
(metabolics?). For shits-n-giggles, let's say that each discipline costs
5 magic points. That leaves me with 20 points left.

Next I go to my list of abilities and, just like spells, determine which
ones my character has. Let's pretend I take:

Rating Cost
Telekinesis -- 5
General Telekinesis 3 3
Telekinetic Punch 3 3
Levitate 2 2
Telepathy -- 5
Scan Mind 2 2
Illusion 2 2
Animal Telepathy (dog) 1 1
Metabolics -- 5
Heal Self 3 3
Shape Change 4 4

Each of these abilities have individual target numbers and drain codes.
Stronger rating abilities are naturally meaner (for both drain and
effect).

From here on out, the character is normal. Karma can later be spent on
new abilities, upgrading abilities, learning new disciplines, etc. In
addition, it would be a trivial matter to create instruments similiar to
fetishes and the like that help a psi to work better.

Now, psionic adepts are similiar, but are limited to only one Discipline
and don't get astral.

Wild psionics represent that person that either A) has a very limited and
unique 'gift' and/or B) has never received any of the proper training.
They essentially have only one ability and this 'class' of psi is
included here to kinda represent the 'civilian' rogue psi. Karma can be
spent to improve this one ability, of course. And there is no astral
projection.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the creation and interplay mechanics. One of the other things
that need to be put into play are the rules for balancing things.

With magic, the balancing factor is Essence and Body. As they both go
down (representing corruption of the body by foreign agent), one's magic
ability decreases. I think a similiar reasoning could be applied to
psionics. As the body becomes corrupted, the ability to produce psychic
energies becomes less.

In addition, being a mage does not exclude being a psi. But with the
lettering system, a full mage could only be an adept psi, or vice-versa.
Adding the letter 'F' will allow a person to be both a full mage and full
psi (but with at most, only a D rating for point, they will be limited
in the number of spells and abilities they canb buy, but have tremendous
potential for later expansion).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following the above, a psionic is (at least initially) actually LESS
powerful than a mage, because they must spend precious magic points on
Disciplines as well as the individual abilities, where a mage just chucks
it all into spells.

This could be partially offset by either eliminating the cost for
disciplines or making abilities a little more powerful or different.
(And this is speaking from a fairness/balance perspective, not from the
role-playing view).

In any case, comments are appreciated.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
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Message no. 2
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 01:10:33 +0100
Sent to just me by boo boo

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 01:09:03 -0500
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu>
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling

Here's my thoughts...

Some of the ideas sound pretty good. Still, I don't like adding
ANOTHER category...

Maybe Psi could just go in with magic? An A-rating would allow a
mage OR a Full Psi (or, to make it really strange, an adept AND a Wild or
something like that...). There would be a certain amount of exclusiveness
in the system like this, mostly because I can't imagine a person who was a
mage AND a psi...devoting a lot of your time to both? Difficult. World
views also seem almost contradictory...

Also, how are Psi's going to be introduced? Another concept, or is
it going to be just grafted on, and assumed to always exist? The latter
is just too far against how SRun already works...I'd assume that, instead,
they were always just casting spells in a slightly different ways. Maybe
it could just be another discipline, like hermetic or shamanic, for that
matter...

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 3
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 01:28:17 +0100
On Tue, 12 Jul 1994, Tim wrote:

> Some of the ideas sound pretty good. Still, I don't like adding
> ANOTHER category...

I think it could be done. If you are required to take A,A,B,C,D,E, (or is
it A,B,C,D,E,E?) it will actually lower the average munchkin level in the
game, as people scramble to try to take both Magic and Psi (and thus
lower their overall magic power).

> Maybe Psi could just go in with magic? An A-rating would allow a
> mage OR a Full Psi (or, to make it really strange, an adept AND a Wild or
> something like that...). There would be a certain amount of exclusiveness
> in the system like this, mostly because I can't imagine a person who was a
> mage AND a psi...devoting a lot of your time to both? Difficult. World
> views also seem almost contradictory...

Well, I can see multi-people being rare. Remember that magic is the
ability to channel, shape and manipulate astral energies, of which the
mage is just one tiny part of. Psi represents TOTALLY the power of you
and the ability to organize and channel your OWN energies. They are not
mutually exclusive except by societal definition (represented by the
impossibility of being a 'Full' both).

> Also, how are Psi's going to be introduced? Another concept, or is
> it going to be just grafted on, and assumed to always exist? The latter
> is just too far against how SRun already works...I'd assume that, instead,
> they were always just casting spells in a slightly different ways. Maybe
> it could just be another discipline, like hermetic or shamanic, for that
> matter...

Actually, and don't flame too hard for bringing up a bad movie, but the
movie Lawnmower Man (not the book :-) had an interesting approach. If
you remember, as Job became more and more exposed to virtual reality and
information, he "awakened parts of [his] brain that had been dormant for
generations". Cyberpunk fiction has always encouraged the stimulation of
the mind.

One can reason that within the SR universe, some net-jock geek one day
managed, through VR, Drugs, cyberspace, or bad music, to access part of
his mind that had been dormant for generations (how is irrelevant). More
importantly, though, the modern technology was able to not only DOCUMENT
this, but was able to determine how to detect in others those that have a
high probabliliy of having the ability to access those portions AND more
importantly, how to train them. (and thus can be born a 'psi-corps' :-)

It is said that humans use some 10% of their brain capacity. What the
hell is that other 90% and what will happen if we suddenly can use it? I
firmly believe that there are powers of the mind that we can only imagine,
and part of the reason why we don't have them comes from being unwilling
to explore our minds. As the world suppresses the populace, there is
nowhere left to turn but inwards.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
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Message no. 4
From: Mercenary X <kdye@*****.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 23:49:28 -0700
We should introduce it like it just appeared in 2056. I like
adding another priority too because magic is different, and it would be
possible to be active in magic and psi.

X
Message no. 5
From: Brett Ryan Brown <calvinoi@*******.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)=
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 20:26:10 EDT
> It is said that humans use some 10% of their brain capacity. What the
> hell is that other 90% and what will happen if we suddenly can use it? I
> firmly believe that there are powers of the mind that we can only imagine,
> and part of the reason why we don't have them comes from being unwilling
> to explore our minds. As the world suppresses the populace, there is
> nowhere left to turn but inwards.

I've always kinda' thought of it like this:
(Now, I'm not a biology expert or anything, so just take this as my
opinion)

The brain is just kind of a really thick, thick mesh of electric
pathways and such, like a ultra-condensed computer that transcends the
capabilities of any artificially constructed electric device. If we
were capable of utilizing the other 90% or so of our minds, I always
thought that we would possibly be able to extend the influence of our
brains. What I mean is that we would be able to extend the
electro-magnetic forces in our brain outside of the skull, and
manipulate these forces to do things like move objects without
physical influence (telekinesis) and such. Also, people who had
greater control over their "forces" could extend their own brain's
influence to others', scrambling the others' bio-electric processes or
manipulating them ("psi-attacks" and "mind-control".) This makes for
a practical (I hope) and scientific (again, I hope) way of dealing
with psionics in a "techno" fasion, sufficiently seperating the use of
psionics from astral magicks.
Well, enough of my babbling. Just my 2 'yen!

-L8TR,
-Calvinoi MindFlyer

--
_/_/_/_/ _ calvinoi@freenet.fsu.edu/calvinoi@*******.tlh.fl.us
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_/ __ _ | | __ __ (_) _ _ ___ (_) text put there by me
_/ / _` | | | \ V / | | | ' \ / _ \ | | is SOLELY my _own_
_/_/_/_/ \__,_| |_| \_/ |_| |_||_\ \___/ |_| worthless blather.
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Message no. 6
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 02:16:27 -0500
> it A,B,C,D,E,E?) it will actually lower the average munchkin level
> in the game, as people scramble to try to take both Magic and Psi
> (and thus

LOWER the munchkin level?

They'll be double mages, in effect...not a great thing to make it
less munchkinous.

> and the ability to organize and channel your OWN energies. They
> are not

It's beginning to sound more like AD&D as time goes on...make it
stop, make it stop!!! <grin>

> Actually, and don't flame too hard for bringing up a bad movie, but
> the movie Lawnmower Man (not the book :-) had an interesting
> approach. If

Ah, it wasn't too bad. Trust me on that one. I make it a hobby
to try to see the worst movies possible...

The main thing I'll have problems with in your ideas is the time-
line. How long will this take? Remember, before magic became really popular
it was probably 10 years after the awakening...if the same thing happens here,
we'll have quit the game by the time it's mainstream.

Maybe it shouldn't be a priority for that reason. A function of
willpower and some other stuff, perhaps? This way, most people could use it
(if they had put a small amount into their magic category, maybe), but noone
would know HOW yet. It might make it more interesting to add to the game...

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 7
From: Alexander Borghgraef <Alexander.Borghgraef@***.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)=
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 12:58:33 --100
>What I mean is that we would be able to extend the
>electro-magnetic forces in our brain outside of the skull, and
>manipulate these forces to do things like move objects without
>physical influence (telekinesis) and such. Also, people who had
>greater control over their "forces" could extend their own brain's
>influence to others', scrambling the others' bio-electric processes or
>manipulating them ("psi-attacks" and "mind-control".)

Realy,moving objects with EM-forces isn't that obvious.I mean, even if you
would use it 100% , the brain isn't exactly a superconducting spool.
Besides, even that can't just mess around with electrically neutral objects.
About disrupting someone elses brain processes, maybe it could work.
Message no. 8
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 11:32:57 +0100
On Wed, 13 Jul 1994, Tim Skirvin wrote:

> > it A,B,C,D,E,E?) it will actually lower the average munchkin level
> > in the game, as people scramble to try to take both Magic and Psi
> > (and thus
>
> LOWER the munchkin level?
>
> They'll be double mages, in effect...not a great thing to make it
> less munchkinous.

No, you need an 'A' category for magic. 'E' represents the lowest one.


> It's beginning to sound more like AD&D as time goes on...make it
> stop, make it stop!!! <grin>

In the end it won't.

> The main thing I'll have problems with in your ideas is the time-
> line. How long will this take? Remember, before magic became really popular
> it was probably 10 years after the awakening...if the same thing happens here,
> we'll have quit the game by the time it's mainstream.

Well, according to Jai Tao's history, Psis were often classified as
hermetics. In addition, the role of technology is geometrically
important.

If we assume it is mainstream by 2054, and allow say 6 years for
identification and study, that means it was first identified about 2048.
The fact that rules are just now being written indicates that it has
finally become common knowledge.


> Maybe it shouldn't be a priority for that reason. A function of
> willpower and some other stuff, perhaps? This way, most people could use it
> (if they had put a small amount into their magic category, maybe), but noone
> would know HOW yet. It might make it more interesting to add to the game...

I don't think we want everyone to have it.....

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
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Message no. 9
From: Mercenary X <kdye@*****.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 10:25:13 -0700
How does adding another E lower the munchkin level below if you
if you added an F instead?
Message no. 10
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 00:06:38 -0500
> No, you need an 'A' category for magic. 'E' represents the lowest
> one.

I know, but you can still make some characters that will be psis and
mages...

Maybe to stop this, we could have force points have to be DIVIDED
among spells, foci, and psi abilities?

> I don't think we want everyone to have it.....

But it IS something that, for some reason, lots of literature has said
that people have. It just is at different levels -- an untrained mind is
one of the problems, another their actual potential, and so on.

Main reason I want most people to have the ability, in some degree,
is that it would allow some defense against it to be built into the rules.
They wouldn't be able to do anything extraordinary, but they would be able
to try to block their mind off, or somesuch.

Make sense?

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 11
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 00:19:48 +0100
On Thu, 14 Jul 1994, Tim Skirvin wrote:

> I know, but you can still make some characters that will be psis and
> mages...

Yes.

> Maybe to stop this, we could have force points have to be DIVIDED
> among spells, foci, and psi abilities?

Uh, it was that way all along, silly :-)

> But it IS something that, for some reason, lots of literature has said
> that people have. It just is at different levels -- an untrained mind is
> one of the problems, another their actual potential, and so on.

Wild PSIs are really the lowest and most common factor, and they really
only have the power cuz they were able to get the training (maybe self
taught, but training nonetheless)

> Main reason I want most people to have the ability, in some degree,
> is that it would allow some defense against it to be built into the rules.
> They wouldn't be able to do anything extraordinary, but they would be able
> to try to block their mind off, or somesuch.

Willpower is a defense in many cases.


____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
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Message no. 12
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: PSI: Some more babbling (fwd)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 00:54:12 -0500
> Uh, it was that way all along, silly :-)

Was it? I must have missed that part. Good.

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"

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