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Message no. 1
From: "Paolo Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:08:52 +0000
OK: negative feedback hasn't yet surpassed positive one (so far
there's 1 "very ironic" versus 3 "pro" :), so I'll post the third
part of PuWa's guide


PuWa's Guide To Amazing Senseless [Etcetera] Fun
-------------------------------------------------
PART Wow like totally amazing, threee!

Yobo chummas! We're here in 'ole Cal, which quite never stopped
being inhabited by the same crazee people, this time to deal
with the masters of adrenaline (loud grunge-slamdance music),
THE SKYDIVERS!!! Not a sport for the weak or the wimpy,
skydiving has arisen to new heights with WingMaster Pro (TM)
interchangeable Wingarms, allowing all of you who had had
serious accidents to fly again, and this time, for real! Not
adrenalizing enough? Then try ChOPPa, and hit the gas valve
with just one hand, while the other keeps on the pulling cord
of that Smart Parachute of yours! And of course, for all of
you that want a REAL thrill, join the MAX-ACC team and see how
many Gs you can do without blacking out!!!

WingMaster Pro (TM) Wingarms
----------------------------

Wingmaster Wingarms are a specialized form of interchangeable
cyberarms that allow the user to fly without any further
implements. First of all a special set of modifications by
WingMaster (TM) is needed to your standard cyberarm,
reinforcing the attachments to your shoulder and muscle, adding
a special break-proof plate to your back muscle, and preparing
the cyberarm for removal. This set costs 0.25 points of essence
and 3000 Y, but provides the wearer with an armor bonus of
(+1/+1) when attacked from the immediate rear only. Then the
cyberarm itself (or rather, the attachments), must be
strenghtened and augmented at least 3 times (costing and
counting as an increased strength (3). Notice this modification
is illegal in many states). This modification is not necessary
if you already have at lest 3 points of increased strength. Then
the actual wings can be installed. The wings themselves are 2.50
metres in span each and offer limited range (depending on your
endurance) and speed equal roughly to your normal running speed.
Wearer can fly for a number of hours equal to the successes
rolled on a Body(4) test where all cyber modifiers to your body
are SUBTRACTED from the number of dice rolled instead of added.
Other modifiers should ba added by the GM to the target number
according to the weight the character is carrying. No backpacks
are allowed when wearing Wingarms.

WingMaster Wingarms
-------------------
Cost: 25000 Y
Essence: as cyberlimb
Availability: Not available from anyone except WingMaster Mail
order (street index = 1)

>>>>>[They are a nice addition to your essence-friendly gadgets,
but hardly useful... Fact is, the more your dermal plating
weighs, the more you tire when flying with these... It's just
incompatible with any cyber enhancements that improve
endurance!]<<<<<
- Boyo (00:12:33/12-6-57)

>>>>>[What about them being so fatiguing?]<<<<<
- Troglo (00:19:pop/06-16-57)

>>>>>[Yer bones are not porous and light like bird
ones...]<<<<<
- Boyo (05:15:20/06-16-57)

>>>>>[No, mine are not. Titanium lacing!]<<<<<
- Troglo (03:39:pop/06-16-57)

ChOPPa
------

The ChOPPa is a small, one-man, strap-to-back helicopter.
Provided with a CACR (Co Axial Counter Rotating) rotor, thus
eliminating the need for a tail fin and stabilizer, the ChOPPa
can carry up to 200 Kgs of cargo (including pilot), in open air.
The helicopter itself is strapped to the pilot's back and has
two large boxes attached to the sides which can be used to carry
equipment, and is propelled my an electric engine of high power
and small size. The whole package can be dismatled given some
time and transformed into a box that weighs only 55 Kgs.

ChOPPa
------
Handling: 5
Speed: 10/25
B/A: 1/0
Sig: 10
Apilot: Real Men Don't Use Apilots!
Cost: 10000 Y
Seating: Ummm... 1 "Strapped"?
Economy: 2.5 PF per Km.
Cargo 4 CFs
Power: Electric/125
Weight: 55 Kgs
Landing/Take: VTOL

>>>>>[Toys, mere toys. There ARE people going round with
these... But then agin, there IS strange people around,
no?]<<<<<
- Bloster (12:34:22/6-6-57)

Smart Parachute
---------------

The Smart Parachute is just a lightweight neomylar cage with the
latest aerodynamic form and a kevlar-III lacing. The Smart
Parachute is new in that information fro it can actually be
recieved via a datajack and the backpack. Information displayed
by the Smart Parachute includes GPS positioning, wind and own
speed, altitude, and metereologic conditions. All this
information can be used to provide for better and more accurate
landings and for longer flights. The Smart Parachute is
avaliable in all colors including Camouflage, Low Visibility
Dull Grey and Transparent.

Smart Parchute
--------------
Cost: 7000 Y
Weight: 6
Avalability: 2/66 hrs.
Street Index: 2
Note: The smart parachute subtracts 2 from all target
numbers of Skydiving control tests. Yes I know
there are no rules yet... And no, YOU invent them!
Or just enforce some control tests now and then...

>>>>>[A thingie for the military, the Smart Parachute has
"leaked" into the free trade... I have actually seen people do
incredible thigs with these babies... Landing on semi trailers
on the run, or in a dense wood without their parachute getting
tangled... And it is so light, and incredibly resistant to
incoming fire... Why, the thing can bounce off very small-caliber
ammunition at a distance! It is also really invisible!]<<<<<
- The Erg Raider (23:12:11/06-06-57)

>>>>>[I had use for it when I and me friends ahd to attack a
zeppelin. Yousee, this guy NEVER landed... Supplies arrived to
him "by wire"!!! We just dropped from the Tokio Geodesics and
landed on top of his darn zeppelin. Was fun, too!]<<<<<
- Stellar (wh:at:ad/um-bn-ame)

MAX-ACC
-------
No, no stats for this one. MAX-ACC is the latest crazyness for
skydivers. Take a large cone-shaped barrel, fuel it with liquid
oxygen, and light the fuse. Up you go. Down you come. That is,
if you manage to stay awake during the 4 or 5 G starting
acceleration... MAX-ACC sites are found almost everywhere (they
are compaarble to bungee-jumping sites in the 90es), and consist
of a large shooting ground, some barracks for the fuel and
personnel, and large dumb signs taht claim this sis the laest
craziness (and craziness it is). The MAX-AC itself is a small
rocket, which goes as high as 5 thousand metres and then
suddently releases you while itself opening a parachute and
falling back to the ground. I doubt any runners could find a use
for such a rocket-frenzy, but, if they do, MAX-ACCS cost about
100000 Y (the rocket) and cost at least 500 Y per 100kilometers
of altitude you want to climb to refuel.

>>>>>[WHEEEE!!! Finally some place to waste my money
big!]<<<<<
-TeRMiNAllY DUmB (12:32:11/06-03-57)

>>>>>[DOn't forget these things go BOOM! now and then. Ah, and
that you soemtimes go SPLAT! too...]<<<<<
-RIgger Happy (12:55:33/06-08-57)


--------
BTW everything is MY copyright, copyup and copydown, and the
world is MINE!!! HAR HAR HAR!
Seriously, the only things I wouldn't like you to use are the
thingie's names, and the names "Rigger Happy" (copyright by
Davide Perinciolo) and "Stellar" (our decker, BTW really dumb
name, eh?)

Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)
-------------------------------------------------------------
FREEDOM IS THE ANSWER TO A QUESTION WE DON'T HAVE TO ASK
*****> SKATERS!!! Check this site for THE contact game! <****
HTTP://WWW.POLITO.IT/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
Message no. 2
From: Hairy Smurf <ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:49:35 -0400 (EDT)
At 23:08 5/22/96 +0000, you wrote:

>PuWa's Guide To Amazing Senseless [Etcetera] Fun
>-------------------------------------------------
>PART Wow like totally amazing, threee!

[Lots'O'Snip]

OK, I know I've been relocating and such and as a result haven't been
checking the list much the last few days, but what happened to parts 1&2? If
I missed them I'd like to see them. If you could mail them to my address (no
reason to repost them to the list unless someone else wants to see them) I'd
appreciate that. thanks.

Sasquatch

---------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| Psychiatrists say that one out of four people are mentally ill. |
| Check three friends. If they're OK, you're it. |
| |
| ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu |
| tech@*******.adelphi.edu blair@*****.adelphi.edu |
| No Website (yet) |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.com>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:19:01 PDT
Uhh... Where, Exactly, did part 2 go?
Message no. 4
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:28:25 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:08 PM 5/22/96 +0000, Paolo Falco wrote:

>WingMaster Pro (TM) Wingarms
>----------------------------
>Wingmaster Wingarms are a specialized form of interchangeable
>cyberarms that allow the user to fly without any further
>implements.

Err, Paolo, I'm not sure if this was serious or not, but do you know how
BIG a pair of wings on a man has to be to be able to fly?

Neat idea tho.


--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 5
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:30:34 +0100
Paolo Falco said on 23:08/22 May 96...

> OK: negative feedback hasn't yet surpassed positive one (so far
> there's 1 "very ironic" versus 3 "pro" :), so I'll post the third
> part of PuWa's guide

So where's parts 1 and 2? I never saw them...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Think about the times and places you've never known.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 6
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:23:35 +0200
At 23:49 Uhr 22.05.96, Hairy Smurf wrote:
>>PuWa's Guide To Amazing Senseless [Etcetera] Fun
>OK, I know I've been relocating and such and as a result haven't been
>checking the list much the last few days, but what happened to parts 1&2? If
>I missed them I'd like to see them. If you could mail them to my address (no
>reason to repost them to the list unless someone else wants to see them) I'd
>appreciate that. thanks.

Haven't seen them either... Want 'em, too!

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 7
From: "Paolo Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:58:04 +0000
On 22 May 96, Benjamin wrote:

> Uhh... Where, Exactly, did part 2 go?

Sorry, I think part 2 was eaten up by the mailer when I
experienced a serie of tech problems after installing Pegasus...
It was no big deal anyway. It just "munchkinously" said that if
your players want to have "extreme" skills, you can make them
pay a negligible amount of karma (about 1 karma PER POINT - no
matter how many points they purchase) since they're useless.
I am astounded somebody noticed the absence! :)

Yup I know the whole thing ruins basic game mechanics, but who
cares about game mechanics anyway? We are talking about
bungee jumping, not about Shooting Guns. I think there's
not much unbalancing in bungee jumping at 10 :)

Here's the complete skill list (all are one dot away from
Athlethics in the web):

* Skydiving (Acrobatic, Parasailing, Base Jumping)
* Scuba diving
* Bungee Jumping
* Skiing (Snowboarding, Skiing, Freestyle, Hot Dog)
* Rafting (Hydrospeed, Rafting, Kayaking)

Not much, eh? :)

-------------
ABOUT PART 1: Part 1 was distributed, I think, since I recieved
some feedback for it. It is available from Paolo Marcucci's
archive.

Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)
-------------------------------------------------------------
FREEDOM IS THE ANSWER TO A QUESTION WE DON'T HAVE TO ASK
*****> SKATERS!!! Check this site for THE contact game! <****
HTTP://WWW.POLITO.IT/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
Message no. 8
From: Valerie A Olson <volson@********.ca>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:58:44 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 23 May 1996, Paolo Falco wrote:

> On 22 May 96, Benjamin wrote:
>
> > Uhh... Where, Exactly, did part 2 go?
>
>
> Yup I know the whole thing ruins basic game mechanics, but who
> cares about game mechanics anyway? We are talking about
> bungee jumping, not about Shooting Guns. I think there's
> not much unbalancing in bungee jumping at 10 :)

UNtil some one wants to bungee jump down grab the cache of
chips/Scientist to be extracted/ whatever, and use his 10 skill level to
bounce right back into the chopper/onto the bridge! :-D
Any one remember the bungee jump out of a chopper at the start of
Demolition man?

The ROO-MAN,
Via his wife.
>
Message no. 9
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:16:41 -0500
>* Skydiving (Acrobatic, Parasailing, Base Jumping)
>* Scuba diving
>* Bungee Jumping
>* Skiing (Snowboarding, Skiing, Freestyle, Hot Dog)
>* Rafting (Hydrospeed, Rafting, Kayaking)
>
>Not much, eh? :)

Actually, no. I can see several of these skills being very useful

Skydiving: Easy. Watch "Drop Zone" for ideas. You get in a plane, fly over
your target, jump, land on the roof. Hell, base jumping would make a great
escape plan. Yes, you land outside, next to the building, but still, you
are outside, and several floors down, and you went down faster than your
pursuers.

Scuba diving is great after a big rain storm (not that it rains much is
Seattle ;) and going through the sewers (if you have a nice GM who says
'yes, the sewers are flooded, why?'). It's also good for sneaking up on the
secluded beach near the secret research area, right Paul? :)

As for bungee jumping, you would have to stretch (oh god, I can't believe I
just typed that) to find a use, but you could. One show here in the US (I
think it was called "the hat squad" or something) had a guy bungee jump and
timed it so that he would be at his low point when the motorcycle was there,
and he knocked the rider off the bike. "demolition man" is another good
example.

Skiing and rafting also make good escapes (watch some "James Bond" or the
beginning of "True Lies")

Ok, some of the stuff is far fetched, but it could still be useful, so don't
knock the skills, they're, to qoute PuWa "rad" :)
Message no. 10
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:26:19 -0600 (MDT)
Valerie A Olson wrote:
|>
|> Yup I know the whole thing ruins basic game mechanics, but who
|> cares about game mechanics anyway? We are talking about
|> bungee jumping, not about Shooting Guns. I think there's
|> not much unbalancing in bungee jumping at 10 :)
|
|UNtil some one wants to bungee jump down grab the cache of
|chips/Scientist to be extracted/ whatever, and use his 10 skill level to
|bounce right back into the chopper/onto the bridge! :-D
|Any one remember the bungee jump out of a chopper at the start of
|Demolition man?

Another good one was in the beginning of Golden Eye.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 11
From: GLENN.ROBERTSON@***.Edu
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:35:12 -0700 (MST)
> As for bungee jumping, you would have to stretch (oh god, I can't believe I
> just typed that) to find a use, but you could. One show here in the US (I
> think it was called "the hat squad" or something) had a guy bungee jump and
> timed it so that he would be at his low point when the motorcycle was there,
> and he knocked the rider off the bike. "demolition man" is another good
> example.

The new James Bond film Golden Eye has bungee jumping off of a damn, and
just before the bottom, he fired a grappling line at the building to reel
himself in, then disconnect the bungee line. Quick and effective.


Glenn Robertson ___
Microbiologist Extraordinaire /***\
A.K.A. Miniature Livestock Manager |nasty|
|virus|
"My Homework Ate My Dog!!" \***/
[-]
/^+*+-_
_/ / # \ \__
/ \ \_ \
| \
/
CATCH IT!! ITS GROOVY!!
Message no. 12
From: "Paolo Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:51:06 +0000
On 23 May 96, Valerie A Olson wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 23 May 1996, Paolo Falco wrote:
> > Yup I know the whole thing ruins basic game mechanics, but
> > who cares about game mechanics anyway? We are talking about
> > bungee jumping, not about Shooting Guns. I think there's not
> > much unbalancing in bungee jumping at 10 :)
>
> UNtil some one wants to bungee jump down grab the cache of
> chips/Scientist to be extracted/ whatever, and use his 10 skill
> level to bounce right back into the chopper/onto the bridge!
> :-D Any one remember the bungee jump out of a chopper at the
> start of Demolition man?

And yes, the bungee jumpdown the dam in Goldeneye... But we are
talking Shadowrun, not Stallone movies, and in *my* shadowrun
sessions, when someone bungee jumps down from ahelicopter, he
gets chopped up by the rotors when he comes up again. :)

Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)
-------------------------------------------------------------
FREEDOM IS THE ANSWER TO A QUESTION WE DON'T HAVE TO ASK
*****> SKATERS!!! Check this site for THE contact game! <****
HTTP://WWW.POLITO.IT/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
Message no. 13
From: "Paolo Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:51:09 +0000
On 23 May 96, Mike Broadwater wrote:
> Actually, no. I can see several of these skills being very
> useful
>
> Skydiving: Easy. Watch "Drop Zone" for ideas. You get in a
> plane, fly over your target, jump, land on the roof. Hell,
> base jumping would make a great escape plan. Yes, you land
> outside, next to the building, but still, you are outside, and
> several floors down, and you went down faster than your
> pursuers.

Yup. But it only works when yer prepared for it :) Remember, you
have to drag along a parachute, and that is NOT like bringing
just another pistol... Ah, and mind you, you need to know that
the office is high enough to base jump it, otherwise, *splat*!

> Scuba diving is great after a big rain storm (not that it rains
> much is Seattle ;) and going through the sewers (if you have a
> nice GM who says 'yes, the sewers are flooded, why?'). It's
> also good for sneaking up on the secluded beach near the secret
> research area, right Paul? :)

Yes, but is otherwise useless, unless you want to stage an
adventure on a submarine base... Ah, and again, you need to have
the respirator suit. (For film fans, I think the best James-Bond
style scuba action actually comes in True Lies, where Schwarzy
emerges and takes his scuba suit off to reveal a perfect tuxedo
:) Barrels of laughs!!!

> As for bungee jumping, you would have to stretch (oh god, I
> can't believe I just typed that) to find a use, but you could.
> One show here in the US (I think it was called "the hat squad"
> or something) had a guy bungee jump and timed it so that he
> would be at his low point when the motorcycle was there, and he
> knocked the rider off the bike. "demolition man" is another
> good example.

Needed: a bridge, an elastic cord, a harness, and a lot of
luck...

> Skiing and rafting also make good escapes (watch some "James
> Bond" or the beginning of "True Lies")

Right, but only when on rivers, or when it's snowing...

> Ok, some of the stuff is far fetched, but it could still be
> useful, so don't knock the skills, they're, to qoute PuWa "rad"
> :)

I wasn't knocking the skills, just pointing out that while they
CAN be of a LOT of use (my characters had to raft down a river
in Alaska to avoid movement sensors once) in a particular
siutuation, they are also next to useless when coming to your
standard city encounter... You usually have to build an
adventure for them... :) That's why I proposed to give them away
(almost) for free, letting the PCs learn them in their spare
time (while on vacation? How many times have your PCs gone on
vacation? :), and by paying tution fees (how about 1000 Y and
one week per point?)...
The reason why I did PuWa in the first time is that I *like*
James Bond-like action... And I like extreme... And I think both
can make for a fun one-off adventure now and then.


Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)
-------------------------------------------------------------
FREEDOM IS THE ANSWER TO A QUESTION WE DON'T HAVE TO ASK
*****> SKATERS!!! Check this site for THE contact game! <****
HTTP://WWW.POLITO.IT/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
Message no. 14
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:01:10 -0500
>And yes, the bungee jumpdown the dam in Goldeneye... But we are
>talking Shadowrun, not Stallone movies, and in *my* shadowrun
>sessions, when someone bungee jumps down from ahelicopter, he
>gets chopped up by the rotors when he comes up again. :)
>
>Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)

Which shows you never saw demolition man (but that's no big loss to
yourself). The bungee jump was out the cargo hatch of some helicopter, down
to the roof of a building using a body harness, and in that short moment
when your velocity down is zero cause gravity can only stretch the cord so
far, but the cord hasn't yanked you back up, he cut the cord and dropped the
few feet to the roof. So the rotors never factored in.
Message no. 15
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:10:39 -0500
>I wasn't knocking the skills, just pointing out that while they
>CAN be of a LOT of use (my characters had to raft down a river
>in Alaska to avoid movement sensors once) in a particular
>siutuation, they are also next to useless when coming to your
>standard city encounter...

Give 'em away for free, doesn't affect me. I was just saying that perhaps
you and your players should take a second look at the skills 'cause they're
not as useless as you think.

Following is my opinion on 'good' shadowrunners.

A good shadowrunner should be prepared for the situations that present
themselves. If you know that your target is on the 35 floor of a 40 story
building, it might be a good idea to bring along a parachute for base
jumping (which are smaller than full rigs) Yes, it can be encumbering, but
it could save your life. If you happen to need to go to northern Canada in
December, a pair of ski's might not hurt anyone. If anyone sees
Mission:Impossible, there's a scene that is _my_ opinion of a good run. I
won't ruin it for anyone who hasn't seen it, but it involves getting some
info off of a computer thats not connected to anything but its self, and it
happens to be in a very high security area.
Message no. 16
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:46:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >WingMaster Pro (TM) Wingarms
> >----------------------------
> >Wingmaster Wingarms are a specialized form of interchangeable
> >cyberarms that allow the user to fly without any further
> >implements.
>
> Err, Paolo, I'm not sure if this was serious or not, but do you know how
> BIG a pair of wings on a man has to be to be able to fly?
>
> Neat idea tho.

I heard a figure somewhere that physically as humans, we would need a
mechanical advantage of 60 to fly under our own power... that is we
couldn't just fly if we had wings on our arms...


---Tom---
Message no. 17
From: wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:41:55 -0600
At 2:58 PM 5/23/96, ROO-MAN wrote:

>On Thu, 23 May 1996, Paolo Falco wrote:
>
>> On 22 May 96, Benjamin wrote:
>>
>> > Uhh... Where, Exactly, did part 2 go?
>>
>>
>> Yup I know the whole thing ruins basic game mechanics, but who
>> cares about game mechanics anyway? We are talking about
>> bungee jumping, not about Shooting Guns. I think there's
>> not much unbalancing in bungee jumping at 10 :)
>
>UNtil some one wants to bungee jump down grab the cache of
>chips/Scientist to be extracted/ whatever, and use his 10 skill level to
>bounce right back into the chopper/onto the bridge! :-D
>Any one remember the bungee jump out of a chopper at the start of
>Demolition man?
>


His rigger had better be very skilled also. It the height of the chopper=
changes at all, then the jumpers skill doesn't come into play. He would=
either eat pavement before reachg the end of the bungee, or stop too soon=
and never get within reach of the _cache_. (is that like a briefcase to us =
Americans?)


Piatro
Message no. 18
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:46:22 +0100
Valerie A Olson said on 14:58/23 May 96...

> UNtil some one wants to bungee jump down grab the cache of
> chips/Scientist to be extracted/ whatever, and use his 10 skill level to
> bounce right back into the chopper/onto the bridge! :-D
> Any one remember the bungee jump out of a chopper at the start of
> Demolition man?

That's exactly what I thought of... One of the dumbest things I saw on
film, really. Anyone with half a brain would have abseiled down... But
hey, it's a movie :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Think about the times and places you've never known.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 19
From: "Paolo Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:04:49 +0000
On 23 May 96, Mike Broadwater wrote:
> >I wasn't knocking the skills, just pointing out that while
> >they CAN be of a LOT of use (my characters had to raft down a
> >river in Alaska to avoid movement sensors once) in a
> >particular siutuation, they are also next to useless when
> >coming to your standard city encounter...
>
> Give 'em away for free, doesn't affect me. I was just saying
> that perhaps you and your players should take a second look at
> the skills 'cause they're not as useless as you think.

Thank you for telling me to take a second look at what *I*
*myself* wrote. Which is only sligthly less offensive than
comparing me to the monkey in front of the keyboard which by
sheer chance happened to produce something readable... :)

Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)
--------------------------------------------------------------
All I really want is [...] a way to calm the angry voice...
--------------------------------------------------------------
HTTP://WWW.POLITO.IT/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
The Above Web Page Contains Gory Graphics and Fun For Skaters!
Message no. 20
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:20:01 -0500
>Thank you for telling me to take a second look at what *I*
>*myself* wrote. Which is only sligthly less offensive than
>comparing me to the monkey in front of the keyboard which by
>sheer chance happened to produce something readable... :)
>
>Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)

I didn't say take a second look at what you wrote, I said take a second look
at the skills. As in "perhaps you should examine their potentials again,
rather than assuming that they are useless". I'm being nice right now, so
before responding, ask yourself "Did I, perhaps, misunderstand him. And was
the sarcasm, perhaps, uncalled for?"

Mike Broadwater
"An object at rest cannot be stopped! Yeah, baby, yeah!" - The Evil
Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
Message no. 21
From: Valerie A Olson <volson@********.ca>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 11:28:21 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 23 May 1996, Peter wrote:

>
> His rigger had better be very skilled also. It the height of the
> chopper changes at all, then the jumpers skill doesn't come into play.
> He would either eat pavement before reachg the end of the bungee, or
> stop too soon and never get within reach of the _cache_. (is that like a
> briefcase to us Americans?) >
>
Umm, no, I think your thinking of an attache case, a cache is simply a
stash, To quote my Oxford dictionary;CACHE N hidden store( of
treasure,provisions,etc) V.T. place in cache. Hope this helps:-D Thats
all for our english lesson today for tonights home work I want you to
look up 3 words you've never seen before and use them in a senence.:-D

Cheers,
The ROO-MAN,
Via his wife.
Message no. 22
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 17:11:46 +0200
At 23:01 Uhr 23.05.96, Mike Broadwater wrote:
[>Paolo Falco wrote:]
>>[snip...] and in *my* shadowrun
>>sessions, when someone bungee jumps down from ahelicopter, he
>>gets chopped up by the rotors when he comes up again. :)
>[snip] The bungee jump was out the cargo hatch of some helicopter, down
>to the roof of a building using a body harness, and in that short moment
>when your velocity down is zero cause gravity can only stretch the cord so
>far, but the cord hasn't yanked you back up, he cut the cord and dropped the
>few feet to the roof. So the rotors never factored in.

Hm... can one be pulled then the point from which one jumed? I am not
sure about this, but I'd suppose not...

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 23
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:34:31 -0700 (PDT)
<bungee snip>

> And yes, the bungee jumpdown the dam in Goldeneye... But we are
> talking Shadowrun, not Stallone movies, and in *my* shadowrun
> sessions, when someone bungee jumps down from ahelicopter, he
> gets chopped up by the rotors when he comes up again. :)

Umm... physics generally don't work that way... if you bungee jmp
off of something, you are not going to come back up to a point higher
than you lept off of... you are going to com up short actually, due to
velocity lost to friction. If you jump out of a chopper, you aren't
going to hit the rotor...


---Tom---
Message no. 24
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:20:42 -0400 (EDT)
At 07:46 PM 5/23/96 -0700, you wrote:

>> >WingMaster Pro (TM) Wingarms
>> >----------------------------
>> >Wingmaster Wingarms are a specialized form of interchangeable
>> >cyberarms that allow the user to fly without any further
>> >implements.
>>
>> Err, Paolo, I'm not sure if this was serious or not, but do you know how
>> BIG a pair of wings on a man has to be to be able to fly?
>
>I heard a figure somewhere that physically as humans, we would need a
>mechanical advantage of 60 to fly under our own power... that is we
>couldn't just fly if we had wings on our arms...

I'm not sure what that means, but we'd have to have wings with about a 12 to
18 foot wingspan, if I remember properly.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 25
From: "Paul J. Adam" <paul@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:49:27 +0100
In message <199605231911.PAA13257@*****.itribe.net>, Mike Broadwater
<mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com> writes
>Actually, no. I can see several of these skills being very useful
>
>Scuba diving is great after a big rain storm (not that it rains much is
>Seattle ;) and going through the sewers (if you have a nice GM who says
>'yes, the sewers are flooded, why?'). It's also good for sneaking up on the
>secluded beach near the secret research area, right Paul? :)

It worked, didn't it? :) And it worked for Arnie in True Lies...

>As for bungee jumping, you would have to stretch (oh god, I can't believe I
>just typed that) to find a use, but you could. One show here in the US (I
>think it was called "the hat squad" or something) had a guy bungee jump and
>timed it so that he would be at his low point when the motorcycle was there,
>and he knocked the rider off the bike. "demolition man" is another good
>example.

There's another example at the beginning of Goldeneye, too.

I like proving to PCs that while some skills might be of limited
utility, none of them are useless.


"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 26
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:57:50 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:28 AM 5/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>On Thu, 23 May 1996, Peter wrote:

>> He would either eat pavement before reachg the end of the bungee, or
>> stop too soon and never get within reach of the _cache_. (is that like a
>> briefcase to us Americans?) >
>>
> Umm, no, I think your thinking of an attache case, a cache is simply a
>stash, To quote my Oxford dictionary;CACHE N hidden store( of
>treasure,provisions,etc) V.T. place in cache. Hope this helps:-D Thats
>all for our english lesson today for tonights home work I want you to
>look up 3 words you've never seen before and use them in a senence.:-D

I believe it's also an women's accessory or something; a tiny tiny pillow
soaked in perfume.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 27
From: "Paolo Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 02:03:06 +0000
On 24 May 96, Ubiquitous wrote:
> At 07:46 PM 5/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >> >WingMaster Pro (TM) Wingarms
> >> >----------------------------
> >> Err, Paolo, I'm not sure if this was serious or not, but do
> >> you know how BIG a pair of wings on a man has to be to be
> >> able to fly?
> >
> >I heard a figure somewhere that physically as humans, we would
> >need a mechanical advantage of 60 to fly under our own
> >power... that is we couldn't just fly if we had wings on our
> >arms...
>
> I'm not sure what that means, but we'd have to have wings with
> about a 12 to 18 foot wingspan, if I remember properly.

18 foot, one foot is about 30 cms, right? 18x30T0 cms, 5
metres (snip the remigant ends :). I gave each wing a length
of 2.50 metres, so I didn't go too far after all, did I? Or were
you saying EACH wing would have to be 5.4 metres (18 feet)? Now
that would be much more difficult to handle :)

Reality check anyone? I would be interested in hard aerodynamic
figures. Oh, yes, apart from the fact that it occurred to me
humans can't actually handle flight since they haven't got a
tail :) Any ideas?

Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)
--------------------------------------------------------------
All I really want is [...] a way to calm the angry voice...
--------------------------------------------------------------
HTTP://WWW.POLITO.IT/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
The Above Web Page Contains Gory Graphics and Fun For Skaters!
Message no. 28
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 21:53:06 -0400 (EDT)
At 02:03 AM 5/25/96 +0000, you wrote:

>> I'm not sure what that means, but we'd have to have wings with
>> about a 12 to 18 foot wingspan, if I remember properly.
>
>18 foot, one foot is about 30 cms, right? 18x30T0 cms, 5
>metres (snip the remigant ends :). I gave each wing a length
>of 2.50 metres, so I didn't go too far after all, did I? Or were
>you saying EACH wing would have to be 5.4 metres (18 feet)? Now
>that would be much more difficult to handle :)

I think wingspan means tip to tip, right?
Unfortunately, I have no fuckin' idea where I got this bit o' trivia. :-(

>Reality check anyone? I would be interested in hard aerodynamic
>figures. Oh, yes, apart from the fact that it occurred to me
>humans can't actually handle flight since they haven't got a
>tail :) Any ideas?

And hollow bones. Don't forget that.


--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 29
From: Hairy Smurf <ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 21:47:36 -0400 (EDT)
At 14:34 5/24/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
><bungee snip>
>
>> And yes, the bungee jumpdown the dam in Goldeneye... But we are
>> talking Shadowrun, not Stallone movies, and in *my* shadowrun
>> sessions, when someone bungee jumps down from ahelicopter, he
>> gets chopped up by the rotors when he comes up again. :)
>
> Umm... physics generally don't work that way... if you bungee jmp
>off of something, you are not going to come back up to a point higher
>than you lept off of... you are going to com up short actually, due to
>velocity lost to friction. If you jump out of a chopper, you aren't
>going to hit the rotor...
>
>
> ---Tom---

But the cord will. OOPS!

Sasquatch

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Psychiatrists say that one out of four people are mentally ill. |
| Check three friends. If they're OK, you're it. |
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| tech@*******.adelphi.edu blair@*****.adelphi.edu |
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Message no. 30
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 18:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
> ><bungee snip>
> >
> >> And yes, the bungee jumpdown the dam in Goldeneye... But we are
> >> talking Shadowrun, not Stallone movies, and in *my* shadowrun
> >> sessions, when someone bungee jumps down from ahelicopter, he
> >> gets chopped up by the rotors when he comes up again. :)
> >
> > Umm... physics generally don't work that way... if you bungee jmp
> >off of something, you are not going to come back up to a point higher
> >than you lept off of... you are going to com up short actually, due to
> >velocity lost to friction. If you jump out of a chopper, you aren't
> >going to hit the rotor...
> >
> >
> > ---Tom---

> But the cord will. OOPS!
>
> Sasquatch

Umm.. no: the cord shouldn't either: it not going to come up any
higher than the person, really. Besides, the downward force from the rotor
would push it dow, even if it did come up... jumping out of a chopper is
really no different than jumping off of a bridge or balloon;


---Tom---
Message no. 31
From: "Paolo Falco" <Falco@****.it>
Subject: Re: PuWa's guide part 3
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 22:36:00 +0000
On 26 May 96, Tom Pendergrast wrote:
>
> > ><bungee snip>
> > >
> > >> And yes, the bungee jumpdown the dam in Goldeneye... But
> > >> we are talking Shadowrun, not Stallone movies, and in *my*
> > >> shadowrun sessions, when someone bungee jumps down from
> > >> ahelicopter, he gets chopped up by the rotors when he
> > >> comes up again. :)
> > >
> > > Umm... physics generally don't work that way... if you
> > >bungee jmp off of something, you are not going to come back
> > >up to a point higher than you lept off of... you are going
> > >to com up short actually, due to velocity lost to friction.
> > >If you jump out of a chopper, you aren't going to hit the
> > >rotor...
> > > ---Tom---
> > But the cord will. OOPS!
> > Sasquatch
>
> Umm.. no: the cord shouldn't either: it not going to come up
> any higher than the person, really. Besides, the downward
> force from the rotor would push it dow, even if it did come
> up... jumping out of a chopper is really no different than
> jumping off of a bridge or balloon;

Could we please quit this conversation? Bungee jumping from a
chopper is out. Ever seen anyone doing it IRL? There's vertical
shift, there's wind speed, there's (as you rightly pointed out)
the air fron the rotor... It's not like jumping from a bridge
or a balloon. A chopper is a damn difficult thing to control,
that causes noise, wind, and, besides this, who sould want to
jump from a chopper? As I stated before, when you fall, you just
fall. You don't do anything else. *IF* you are really good, you
can do something on your way back up. *IF* you are really good.
Ah, and as I stated before, I speak from personal experience,
just in case you wondered. Not a BIG experience, but unless you
tried it, well, trust me... :) (and if you tried it, you know
what I mean.)

Paolo Falco [Falco@****.it] Ironbound Section (Near Avenue L)
--------------------------------------------------------------
All I really want is [...] a way to calm the angry voice...
--------------------------------------------------------------
HTTP://WWW.POLITO.IT/~walter/RollerBrawl/rollerbrawl.html
The Above Web Page Contains Gory Graphics and Fun For Skaters!

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