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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Todd Montgomery <tmont@****.WVU.EDU>
Subject: Question 1
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 10:46:05 -0400
Last night I took a good look at the 3G^3 gun creation system and tried
to compare pistols in SR with the stats derived in 3G^3. I took some
liberal guesses and tried to see if I could force some kind of relationship
out. NADA.

But I did see something interesting. The efficiency of Cased ammo vs.
caseless ammo can be large. So naturally I tried to even out the scale.
I found that at about the SR tech level that a projectile of about
a 9mm size (cased) could have about the same punch as a 11mm (caseless).
You really had to work with other gun stats, but it could be done.

The question: If cased ammo is that much better and if a gun in SR was
fitted with cased ammo and some neat little accessories, then it would
stand to reason that something like say a Fichetti Security 500 (which
I assume is about a 9mm) could be made to dish out the heavy pistol
damages (9M). Disadvantage is obvious. In the SR time, cased ammo would
be like saying "It was me! I did it! I'm over here!". I guess you could
also try and make something like a cased 12mm that would do something
in the neighborhood of 12M. Comments.

Some more info.: Talking to some people about Cased and Caseless, I came
up with some interesting facts.
1) Caseless ammo as depicted in SR is wrong. Caseless ammo is
made in a brick which has several rounds packaged. This means that a clip
comes already together and whole. And this arrangement would also make
using caseless ammo in a cylinder pistol impossible.

2) Caseless ammo is used because it gets rid of the weight inherent
in the shells case. This can decrease the weight by as much as a factor of
2 for large shells. This is why it is used today.

Anyone want to comment on the validaty of these facts? I do not know
much about caseless ammo, but the info comes from some guys who (supposedly)
do.

-- Quiktek
-- Todd Montgomery
tmont@****.wvu.edu
tmont@***.wvu.edu
un032507@*******.wvnet.edu
Message no. 2
From: Chris Yang <cyang@*****.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: Question 1
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 08:37:27 -0700
On Tue, 26 Oct 1993, Todd Montgomery wrote:

> Some more info.: Talking to some people about Cased and Caseless, I came
> up with some interesting facts.
> 1) Caseless ammo as depicted in SR is wrong. Caseless ammo is
> made in a brick which has several rounds packaged. This means that a clip
> comes already together and whole. And this arrangement would also make
> using caseless ammo in a cylinder pistol impossible.
>
Wrong. I think. :-) I read a preview article on the H&K G11 and
saw pictures of prototypes (or maybe just models of what the thing
is SUPPOSED to look like when it's finished.) Using it in a revolver
should be no problem. The only reason a revolver requires a case
today is to keep the propellant from falling out. Propellant
today consists of powder. If the powder were solid, you could
possibly do away with the case altogether.
The G11 and other caseless ammo come individually packaged, just like
regular rounds.

> 2) Caseless ammo is used because it gets rid of the weight inherent
> in the shells case. This can decrease the weight by as much as a factor of
> 2 for large shells. This is why it is used today.
>
The case doesn't weigh that much in comparison to the bullet. I
would say that were you to make a bullet shaped object out of some
solid propellant that the weight difference would be negligible. It
was always my understanding that caseless ammo increases reliability
by reducing the number of moving parts. Nothing is ejected, so nothing
should be able to get in (ie dirt, mud, grit, elephants). Jams
could be prevented because the slide can't "hang up" on an
improperly ejected case.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Yang cyang@*****.ubc.ca

Further Reading

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