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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Question About Grounding
Date: Mon Dec 10 19:45:00 2001
Got a question about grounding from SRII for some of the old hands round the list. I'm
thinking of reintroducing grounding into my current, Third Ed., SR game that I'm running.

IIRC you can ground through foci. Can you ground through a mages vacant body when they're
projecting onto the astral?

And the main question, is it possible to ground through quickened spells as well? As I
recall, there was a certain amount of 'debate' over this last point. Thanks.

Simon
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Question About Grounding
Date: Tue Dec 11 00:35:01 2001
<snipt!(TM)>
> IIRC you can ground through foci. Can you ground
through a mages vacant body when they're projecting
onto the astral?

Bloody oath! In SRII, an astrally projecting mage was
a bomb waiting to happen.

> And the main question, is it possible to ground
through quickened spells as well? As I recall, there
was a certain amount of 'debate' over this last
point. Thanks.
> Simon

Sorry, dude, can't help you there. Personally, I'd say
no, unless the masking rules were reworked (to allow
you to mask more quickened spells, of course - you
have to penetrate any masking before you can ground a
spell through whatever's being masked) - otherwise
quickening becomes a useless metamagic, because having
these spells active permanently is like a blind man
walking around with a "Kick Me" sign on his back.
There's no point in having quickened spells then
because with a sustaining focus, although it's more
expensive, at least you can turn it off.

I don't think anyone ever came up with a solution that
appeased everyone, so I'd suggest you think about how
you want your game to work. If you want your mages not
to have any quickened spells, use masking as is and
allow grounding through quickened spells.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Question About Grounding
Date: Tue Dec 11 04:40:01 2001
flakjacket@***********.com writes:

> Got a question about grounding from SRII for some of the old hands round
> the list. I'm thinking of reintroducing grounding into my current, Third
> Ed., SR game that I'm running.

It'd be fun, but it might cause problems in certain places, too. Let us know
how it goes.

> IIRC you can ground through foci. Can you ground through a mages vacant
> body when they're projecting onto the astral?

Not exactly. A projecting magician's body was devoid of his spirit (it's
projecting, after all ;-)), and thus not actually astrally active. OTOH,
because of the intimate link between a projecting magician's astral form and
body, and spell that successfully overcame the projecting magician grounded
out at the location of his physical body.

This, obviously, had little effect if the spell was a typical single target
Combat Spell like Manabolt, as it still only affected the targetted
magician. A typical area of effect combat spell like Manaball, however,
could have interesting effects. If the caster of the spell was also able to
see the magician's body, then any targets in the area of effect that the
caster could also see were also affected by the spell. Obviously, this
wasn't an especially likely circumstance.

OTOH, in SRII it was possible to give Combat Spells Elemental Effects.
These, because they created "real" effects, did not require LOS to function.
A Combat Spell caused damage in the same way as a SR3 Combat Spell, and the
accompanying Elemental Effects could cause secondary effects, the same as in
SR3. So, in SRII, even if you couldn't see the body of your astral target,
hitting them with an area of effect Elemental Effect Combat Spell was still
viable, as everything near them would suffer the secondary effects (being a
Combat Spell, you still needed to see the other targets to do the primary
damage to them).

> And the main question, is it possible to ground through quickened spells
> as well? As I recall, there was a certain amount of 'debate' over this last
> point. Thanks.

It was never officially stated whether it was possible or not. Depending on
how you viewed things, it could be done, or couldn't be. In _MY_ opinion, it
was not possible. I took this approach because it was not possible to ground
through a sustained spell. And a Quickened spell, at least in SRII, was
essentially a sustained spell that was sustained by the power of your karma
creating a permanent astral resonance to power the spell. Thus, I treated
them just like sustained spells, except that they were sustained by a
different technique (like using an elemental or spell lock). Thus, grounding
through them was not possible.

Ask 5 people, though, and you'll probably get 6 different answers. As in
many things magical ;-).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Question About Grounding
Date: Tue Dec 11 05:40:06 2001
According to flakjacket@***********.com, on Tue, 11 Dec 2001 the word on the street was...

> IIRC you can ground through foci. Can you ground through a mages vacant
> body when they're projecting onto the astral?

Yes, but you will need to cast the spell at the magician's astral form. If it can ground
out, it will do so through the physical body. You will need to allow physical spells to
be cast on the astral plane to make grounding useful, though.

> And the main question, is it possible to ground through quickened spells
> as well? As I recall, there was a certain amount of 'debate' over this
> last point. Thanks.

As I recall, FASAMike specifically said you couldn't ground through quickened spells
(after first saying that you could, I believe, and reconsidering when some problems with
that were pointed out :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"I know you're expecting me to take that as good news," Randy says.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Question About Grounding
Date: Tue Dec 11 05:40:12 2001
According to Damion Milliken, on Tue, 11 Dec 2001 the word on the street was...

> This, obviously, had little effect if the spell was a typical single
> target Combat Spell like Manabolt, as it still only affected the
> targetted magician. A typical area of effect combat spell like Manaball,
> however, could have interesting effects. If the caster of the spell was
> also able to see the magician's body, then any targets in the area of
> effect that the caster could also see were also affected by the spell.
> Obviously, this wasn't an especially likely circumstance.

Only for physical area-effect spells; mana area-effect spells only affected a
single target on the physical plane, IIRC. (I worked it all out some time
before SR3 was published, which Wordman put into the ShadowFAQ; I have no idea
if it's still there, though. Adam?)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"I know you're expecting me to take that as good news," Randy says.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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