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Message no. 1
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:15:37 -0500 (CDT)
The mages in our group are (justifiably) paranoid, so one of the spells
they tend to lock is Barrier or Mana Barrier. Now, I've ruled that
when they lock the Barrier, the shape is set. Assume they put it into
a dome around themselves.

| = A wall
M = mage
* = Barrier

Case 1: Mage is standing in a field, he activates the lock:

******
**** ****
** **
* M *
** **
**** ****
******


Obviously, not a problem.

Case 2: Mage is standing in an alley

| |
| |
| |
| M |
| |
| |
| |
| |

Does the lock "hug" the wall, like so

|***|
|* *|
|* *|
|*M*|
|* *|
|* *|
|***|
| |


And if he leaves the Alley, does it "balloon" out?

******
***** ******
|* *|
|*M*|
|* *|
|* *|
|***|
| |

And, what if it's a Mana Barrier, and he casts it in the Alley, does
it automatically flow through the walls (even though it wouldn't go
through a vehicle)?

******
***| |****
** | | **
* | M | *
** | | **
***| |****
******

And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?

Or, what if he moves out of the alley, and there's a person at the
corner? Does it bound the person back?

And (this one a player asked me today), what if he casts a mana barrier,
walks past a porta-potty so that it's now inside the barrier, and the
guy inside opens the door?


--
Rick Jones "Kinda hard to tell the villains without a scorecard."
rick@******.com -Scully, X-Files, Red Museum
Meyrick@***.com
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 2
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.edu>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 11:43:50 -0400
Rick Jones wrote:
>
> The mages in our group are (justifiably) paranoid, so one of the spells
> they tend to lock is Barrier or Mana Barrier. Now, I've ruled that
> when they lock the Barrier, the shape is set. Assume they put it into
> a dome around themselves.
>
> | = A wall
> M = mage
> * = Barrier
>
> Case 1: Mage is standing in a field, he activates the lock:
>
> ******
> **** ****
> ** **
> * M *
> ** **
> **** ****
> ******
>
> Obviously, not a problem.

Okay.

> Case 2: Mage is standing in an alley
>
> | |
> | |
> | |
> | M |
> | |
> | |
> | |
> | |
>
> Does the lock "hug" the wall, like so
>
> |***|
> |* *|
> |* *|
> |*M*|
> |* *|
> |* *|
> |***|
> | |
>
> And if he leaves the Alley, does it "balloon" out?
>
> ******
> ***** ******
> |* *|
> |*M*|
> |* *|
> |* *|
> |***|
> | |

In the case of a physical barrier, the answer to both questions would be no. I
would say that the mage would have to pull successes per the rules to reduce the
size of the barrier in order to cast in such a small place. Remember that barriers
are either walls or domes. More than likely, the dome wouldn't fit. I don't have
the book with me, but I believe the barrier could be made to fit by making it taller
than it is wide, but don't quote me on that. ;) A barrier holds its shape once it
is cast.

> And, what if it's a Mana Barrier, and he casts it in the Alley, does
> it automatically flow through the walls (even though it wouldn't go
> through a vehicle)?

I would say yes, because the walls are not themselves wholely enclosed entities.

> ******
> ***| |****
> ** | | **
> * | M | *
> ** | | **
> ***| |****
> ******
>
> And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?
They are either in your mana barrier (and get dragged along with it when it moves),
or they are outside of the barrier and can't enter (depending on whether they were
within the area of effect of the barrier or not).

> Or, what if he moves out of the alley, and there's a person at the
> corner? Does it bound the person back?

Yes.

> And (this one a player asked me today), what if he casts a mana barrier,
> walks past a porta-potty so that it's now inside the barrier, and the
> guy inside opens the door?

My personal opinion would be to say it's a sneaky way for the guy to get inside your
mana barrier. :) (This could have its uses...)

> --
> Rick Jones "Kinda hard to tell the villains without a
scorecard."
> rick@******.com -Scully, X-Files, Red Museum
> Meyrick@***.com
> http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/

--
______________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 3
From: olafurg@******.is (olafur gunnarsson)
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:49:39 GMT
>Rick Jones wrote:
>>
>> The mages in our group are (justifiably) paranoid, so one of the spells
>> they tend to lock is Barrier or Mana Barrier. Now, I've ruled that
>> when they lock the Barrier, the shape is set. Assume they put it into
>> a dome around themselves.
>>
>> | = A wall
>> M = mage
>> * = Barrier
>>
>> Case 1: Mage is standing in a field, he activates the lock:
>>
>> ******
>> **** ****
>> ** **
>> * M *
>> ** **
>> **** ****
>> ******
>>
>> Obviously, not a problem.
>
>Okay.
>
>> Case 2: Mage is standing in an alley
>>
>> | |
>> | |
>> | |
>> | M |
>> | |
>> | |
>> | |
>> | |
>>
>> Does the lock "hug" the wall, like so
>>
>> |***|
>> |* *|
>> |* *|
>> |*M*|
>> |* *|
>> |* *|
>> |***|
>> | |
>>
>> And if he leaves the Alley, does it "balloon" out?
>>
>> ******
>> ***** ******
>> |* *|
>> |*M*|
>> |* *|
>> |* *|
>> |***|
>> | |
>
>In the case of a physical barrier, the answer to both questions would be
no. I
>would say that the mage would have to pull successes per the rules to
reduce the
>size of the barrier in order to cast in such a small place. Remember that
barriers
>are either walls or domes. More than likely, the dome wouldn't fit. I
don't have
>the book with me, but I believe the barrier could be made to fit by making
it taller
>than it is wide, but don't quote me on that. ;) A barrier holds its shape
once it
>is cast.
>
>> And, what if it's a Mana Barrier, and he casts it in the Alley, does
>> it automatically flow through the walls (even though it wouldn't go
>> through a vehicle)?
>
>I would say yes, because the walls are not themselves wholely enclosed
entities.
>
>> ******
>> ***| |****
>> ** | | **
>> * | M | *
>> ** | | **
>> ***| |****
>> ******
>>
>> And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?
>They are either in your mana barrier (and get dragged along with it when it
moves),
>or they are outside of the barrier and can't enter (depending on whether
they were
>within the area of effect of the barrier or not).
>
>> Or, what if he moves out of the alley, and there's a person at the
>> corner? Does it bound the person back?
>
>Yes.
>
>> And (this one a player asked me today), what if he casts a mana barrier,
>> walks past a porta-potty so that it's now inside the barrier, and the
>> guy inside opens the door?
>
>My personal opinion would be to say it's a sneaky way for the guy to get
inside your
>mana barrier. :) (This could have its uses...)
>



Unless im totaly of my ringer then a barrier is imobile so once you set it
up you cant move around your stuck becuse otherwise anyone jumping at the
barrier would simply push it back if he was heavier or stronger than the one
using it.
-Olafur Gunnarsson/Madbyron/Smudge-
Message no. 4
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:59:22 -0500 (CDT)
In case I was unclear, the walls would be as if the mage was in an
alley. The walls would be part of a building, not just free-standing
walls. But that does add another wrinkle - what if there were a hole
in the wall?

--
Rick Jones "Kinda hard to tell the villains without a scorecard."
rick@******.com -Scully, X-Files, Red Museum
Meyrick@***.com
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 5
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:06:41 -0600 (MDT)
Rick Jones wrote:
|
|The mages in our group are (justifiably) paranoid, so one of the spells
|they tend to lock is Barrier or Mana Barrier. Now, I've ruled that
|when they lock the Barrier, the shape is set. Assume they put it into
|a dome around themselves.

[snip: various questions about whether or not the barrier
conforms to the surrounding environment as the mage moves]

You forgot: what if Barrier is cast while the mage is
standing in a ditch? Does the bottom of the Barrier retain
the "V" shape, or does it flatten out when the mage leaves
the ditch? What happens when the mage tries to step up to
a curb, or step off?

This one came up about 9(?) months ago. And the discussion
was lengthy. I think the end result was that it's up to
each GM to decide whether the shape is fluid or fixed.

As for the porta-poty question, I'll let someone else take
that one (magic is *not* my strong suit, ask anyone who's
been here for awhile :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 6
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:13:59 -0600 (MDT)
olafur gunnarsson wrote:
|
[snip: barrier questions]
|
|Unless im totaly of my ringer then a barrier is imobile so once you set it
|up you cant move around your stuck becuse otherwise anyone jumping at the
|barrier would simply push it back if he was heavier or stronger than the one
|using it.

Hey, I think the new guy raised a point that wasn't brought
up last time. Cool! Yet again my SR game undergoes a
subtle change due to the insight of another person on this
list (yes, that means I agree with him untill someone like
Sascha (whom I respect very much) quotes a rule).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 7
From: olafurg@******.is (olafur gunnarsson)
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:25:48 GMT
>olafur gunnarsson wrote:
>|
>[snip: barrier questions]
>|
>|Unless im totaly of my ringer then a barrier is imobile so once you set it
>|up you cant move around your stuck becuse otherwise anyone jumping at the
>|barrier would simply push it back if he was heavier or stronger than the one
>|using it.
>
>Hey, I think the new guy raised a point that wasn't brought
>up last time. Cool! Yet again my SR game undergoes a
>subtle change due to the insight of another person on this
>list (yes, that means I agree with him untill someone like
>Sascha (whom I respect very much) quotes a rule).
>
Why thank you it is nice to know that my small insignificant opinion can
alter the balance of forces in the world:).
Olafur Gunnarsson/Madbyron/smudge
Message no. 8
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:55:37 -0500 (CDT)
If the barrier had to be cast in the area, I agree it would require
pulling successes to shrink it to fit, but this spell has been locked
into the dome shape.
--
Rick Jones "Kinda hard to tell the villains without a scorecard."
rick@******.com -Scully, X-Files, Red Museum
Meyrick@***.com
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 9
From: Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 96 11:07:16 EST
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________



%The mages in our group are (justifiably) paranoid, so one of the
%spells they tend to lock is Barrier or Mana Barrier. Now, I've ruled
%that when they lock the Barrier, the shape is set. Assume they put it
%into a dome around themselves.

| = A wall
M = mage
* = Barrier

%Case 1: Mage is standing in a field, he activates the lock:

******
**** ****
** **
* M *
** **
**** ****
******


%Obviously, not a problem.

nope.

%Case 2: Mage is standing in an alley

| |
| |
| |
| M |
| |
| |
| |
| |

%Does the lock "hug" the wall, like so

|***|
|* *|
|* *|
|*M*|
|* *|
|* *|
|***|
| |





NO!, he CAN only cast is a ssuch:
| |
| |
| * |
|*M*|
| * |
| |
| |


always a DOME so round, if he cannot diminish the area of effect so that it fits
in the alley the spell fails!!

%And if he leaves the Alley, does it "balloon" out?

******
***** ******
|* *|
|*M*|
|* *|
|* *|
|***|
| |

nope. and if he tries to go in the alley with a barrier that doesn't
fit then you can't enter the alley!!

%And, what if it's a Mana Barrier, and he casts it in the Alley, does
%it automatically flow through the walls (even though it wouldn't go
%through a vehicle)?

******
***| |****
** | | **
* | M | *
** | | **
***| |****
******

hmmm I'd rule you are right here.


%And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?

the barrier works normally if it's a MANA barrier.

%Or, what if he moves out of the alley, and there's a person at the
%corner? Does it bound the person back?

jep AND it stops YOU!! [if centered on you]

%And (this one a player asked me today), what if he casts a mana
%barrier, walks past a porta-potty so that it's now inside the barrier,
%and the guy inside opens the door?

what's a porta-potty?

Ferri


--
Rick Jones "Kinda hard to tell the villains without a scorecard."
rick@******.com -Scully, X-Files, Red Museum
Meyrick@***.com
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 10
From: Faux Pas <fauxpas@******.net>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:13:43 -0500
At 10:15 AM 10/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>The mages in our group are (justifiably) paranoid, so one of the spells
>they tend to lock is Barrier or Mana Barrier. Now, I've ruled that
>when they lock the Barrier, the shape is set. Assume they put it into
>a dome around themselves.

>Case 2: Mage is standing in an alley

>Does the lock "hug" the wall, like so

>And if he leaves the Alley, does it "balloon" out?

These are the rules I came up for my game - this example you gave hasn't
come up yet in my game, so these are off the top of my head:

I'd rule that the barrier spell - as a dome - is actually like a sphere,
with the center wherever the center was cast. Everything inside the sphere
is considered to be protected. The sphere doesn't extend underground
because there's a physical object there that keeps the sphere from extending
down. Similarly, the Barrier would go to the sides of the alley and hug the
walls. When the mage moves out into the street, it would balloon out, but
only out to the radius of the initial cast.

If there's a hole in the wall, the Barrier would flow out to the radius of
the initial casting. However, because the wall it flows through begins
outside of the radius, the wall itself isn't in the barrier. It's like
sticking your finger in a balloon. The balloon surrounds your finger, but
you aren't in the balloon.

Gotta stop taking those Tavist-D pills. I keep coming up with wierd
analogies that make sense when I type them, but look loony on a re-read.

So, if you consider the Barrier a sphere and it is locked on a mage, it
doesn't matter if the mage is standing in a ditch then gets out, or if the
mage hops off a curb.

>And, what if it's a Mana Barrier, and he casts it in the Alley, does
>it automatically flow through the walls (even though it wouldn't go
>through a vehicle)?

Yes.

>And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?

They're enclosed in the barrier. The mage moves away from the wall and the
barrier travels with him until it hits the guy inside the building, then the
mage can't walk away - the barrier is caught on something.

>Or, what if he moves out of the alley, and there's a person at the
>corner? Does it bound the person back?

If it's centered on the mage, and he runs into the guy outside of the
barrier, the barrier would stop. The mana barrier stops movement of living
objects and I'd say that the barrier bumps into the guy and stops, just like
how it knocks the motorcycle rider off his chopper. Because of the dome is
centered on the mage, the mage stops - the barrier is stuck.

The truck the mage was running away from passes into the mana barrier, and
runs over the stuck mage.

>And (this one a player asked me today), what if he casts a mana barrier,
>walks past a porta-potty so that it's now inside the barrier, and the
>guy inside opens the door?

Porta-potty is inside the barrier, so the guy is inside the barrier.

-Thomas Deeny
the Cartoonist at large is [theoretically] on the web at
www2.cy-net.net/~fauxpas

"Cat on my head! Cat on my head!"
-Dr. Chris Cooper, _Kids in the Hall: Brain Candy_
Message no. 11
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:30:57 +0000
On 4 Oct 96 at 10:13, David Buehrer wrote:
[Barriers immobile?]
> Hey, I think the new guy raised a point that wasn't brought
> up last time. Cool! Yet again my SR game undergoes a
> subtle change due to the insight of another person on this
> list (yes, that means I agree with him untill someone like
> Sascha (whom I respect very much) quotes a rule).
*sigh* Why do I feel urged to really check it out when someone cuddles my ego?
Why? *sigh*
Well, thanx, David. Fortunatly, Faux Pas did do some work already, so I may quote him
here...

On 5 Oct 96 at 13:13, Faux Pas wrote:
> I'd rule that the barrier spell - as a dome - is actually like a sphere, with
> the center wherever the center was cast. Everything inside the sphere is
> considered to be protected. The sphere doesn't extend underground because
> there's a physical object there that keeps the sphere from extending down.
> Similarly, the Barrier would go to the sides of the alley and hug the walls.
> When the mage moves out into the street, it would balloon out, but only out
> to the radius of the initial cast.

SRII p. 158 (Description of Barrier Spell) states the spell is either a dome
or a wall. Since no "delay" is mentioned that would happen when the barrier
"starts" as a point and then "moves outward", I suppose we can safely
assume
the barrier "comes to life" with the final radius (normally magician's Magic
Attribute).
I agree with Faux Pas the spell does not extend underground - in most cases.
Well, in some cases actually. The Earth is considered a living being in SR, so
you can't cast a spell through it (you might cast a spell AT it, but better
expect some _very_ high TNs :-). When the ground is "refined", say there is a
subway under you, or cellars, whatever, the ground is "dead" and acts just
like your average concrete wall.

So, how does a wall (artificial, non-living object) affect a spell, especially
a barrier spell, and - to return to the question at hand - is the barrier
moveable?
I tried to explain it by the definition of Limited Range Spells (SRII, p. 128
and p. 152), but unfortunately, the description isn't as good as I thought I
remember. Well, so just let's take us examples and wonder if they are moveable
or not. Have a look at Detect (Object) or Combat Sense. Both are Type Physical
(as Barrier), both have limited Range (as...), both are sustained. Detect
(Object) is even an Area-Effect Spell like barrier. And now do ask yourself:
Would these spells move around with the target of the spell? If not, why is
"Detect (Object)" then Sustained and not Instant? and they have the same game
statistics as Barrier... Well, this is no proof (*sigh*), not even a real
evidence, more a hint, but that's what we got to live with, I am afraid :-(

With the Area-Effect of Barrier and it's effects on inanimate objects or
generally objects "in the spell's way", we have a similar problem. It is not
mentioned wether the spell reflects, goes through the obstacle, adjusts it's
size, fails to work, or whatever.
I _would_assume_ (pure guess here, not at all backed .-( by the book) that the
Barrier exists through objects w/o an aura. Whoever is in the Area of Effect
(Magician's magic Attribute) is within the barrier, who's outside, is out.
When the Being with the aura is exactly where the Barrier would be, the
Barrier would be smaler by the neccessary distance (else you'd never get a
Barrier spell working while in contact with "Mother Earth").
When the center of the spell tries to move, he has to move the barrier through
all obstacles - with an physical Barrier, he'd have to roll as if the
Character on which the spell has been cast would try to cross the Barrier
himself whenever an obstacle crosses the Barrier, sorry, other way round, if
the Barrier crosses an obstacle because the Char moves. Same with a mana
barrier and living beings. But as i said, this is a pure guess (that's
furthermore based n my guess one can move with a barrier), so watch out.
Oh, and this means you can "trap" a person behind a wall within a barrier...

On 5 Oct 96 at 13:13, Faux Pas wrote:
> >And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?
> They're enclosed in the barrier. The mage moves away from the wall and the
> barrier travels with him until it hits the guy inside the building, then the
> mage can't walk away - the barrier is caught on something.
Well, you can still move through a barrier (as you can still see an
"invisible" character)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 12
From: Faux Pas <fauxpas@******.net>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:03:25 -0500
At 03:30 PM 10/6/96 +0000, Sascha wrote:

>On 5 Oct 96 at 13:13, Faux Pas wrote:
>> >And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?
>> They're enclosed in the barrier. The mage moves away from the wall and the
>> barrier travels with him until it hits the guy inside the building, then the
>> mage can't walk away - the barrier is caught on something.

>Well, you can still move through a barrier (as you can still see an
>"invisible" character)

Sorry, I meant Mana Barrier instead of Barrier in the above.

-Thomas Deeny
the Cartoonist at large is on the web at www2.cy-net.net/~fauxpas

"She twisted her engagement ring and Flash's costume flew out of it."
-one of a list of reasons why Lois Lane and Superman broke up (they're back
together).
Message no. 13
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 22:19:12 -0700
<SNIP>
> So, if you consider the Barrier a sphere and it is locked on a mage, it
> doesn't matter if the mage is standing in a ditch then gets out, or if
the
> mage hops off a curb.

But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can the
mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with him
as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 14
From: Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com
Subject: Re[2]: question about locked barriers
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 96 10:54:50 EST
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________



%If the barrier had to be cast in the area, I agree it would require
%pulling successes to shrink it to fit, but this spell has been locked
%into the dome shape.

You HAVE to lock it at a certain size.
F.
--
Message no. 15
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:15:29 +0000
On 6 Oct 96 at 19:03, Faux Pas wrote:
[snip]
> >Well, you can still move through a barrier (as you can still see an
> >"invisible" character)
>
> Sorry, I meant Mana Barrier instead of Barrier in the above.
Well, you can still move through a Mana Barrier (or a Barrier) (as... well you
know _that_ part :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | "Hate is a force of|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| attraction. Hate is|
| \___ __/ | | just love with its|
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* |back turned" - Terry|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me |Pratchett-Masquerade|
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 16
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:42:03 -0700
> But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can
the
> mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with
him
> as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?
>
Well that depends on where the barrier is centered doesn't it? I mean if
you center the barrier on say a spell lock or individual if that object
moves the barrier should too, but if you put it up as a wall at a certain
point in the road well then its not moving unless the road does. <shrug>
At least that's always the way I viewed it.
Message no. 17
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: question about locked barriers
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 21:42:46 +0000
On 7 Oct 96 at 10:54, Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterd wrote:
> %If the barrier had to be cast in the area, I agree it would require
> %pulling successes to shrink it to fit, but this spell has been locked
> %into the dome shape.
>
> You HAVE to lock it at a certain size.
Saz who? The book doesn't... (same for your other mail)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 18
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:34:32 +0100
In article <199610070511.WAA01883@***.netzone.com>, Loki
<loki@*******.com> writes
><SNIP>
>> So, if you consider the Barrier a sphere and it is locked on a mage, it
>> doesn't matter if the mage is standing in a ditch then gets out, or if
>the
>> mage hops off a curb.
>
>But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can the
>mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with him
>as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?

The very few times I've come across this, I've always ruled that the
barrier is fixed. This prevents mages casting a spell or bullet barrier
with an area of effect and using that to "walk" the team in. The
barrier is fixed, it is immobile on the spot it was cast, the mage
however, can move inside the barrier (if dome form- provided he has the
space) and can hit the deck to cower form *whatever*, I also allow the
mage to dive behind cover. Primarily I advise players to treat barrier
spells as "temporary walls, and discourage the "dome" type, that way,
the mage is allowed free movement, the barrier stays where the mage puts
it and does what it is intended to do (I've just noticed am I the only
person with a totally irrelevant and innaccurate index in Awakenings???
It makes absolutely no fragging sense whatsoever. :( )

The prospect of a "barriered" mage wandering randomly around in an area
of threat scares the crap out of me, and seems to lean towards that "the
mage is the most powerful character stuff" that I hated about other game
systems. I *do* run a low magic campaign, in keeping with the FASA
suggestion about the rarity of mages and suchlike (though with the rise
of mana this situation would obviously change) and use it to scare the
drek out of my players, but I won't allow moveable barriers in *any*
form. The logic is, if you build a wall, it stays there, it doesn't
suddenly sprout legs and wander off. :)

(Unless of course you work for my local council, and then this point
becomes debateable :) )

Just my thoughts.

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 19
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:18:58 +0100 (BST)
On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Loki wrote:

> But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can the
> mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with him
> as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?

Here's my house rule on teh whole thing.
If the barrier is cast on a point in space it is immobile, if it is cast
on a person or other item able to move, it will move with it.

The barrier will follow teh contours of the terrin out to its area of
effect. If in a corridor or like teh barrier will follow teh walls of teh
corridor and will not go past (using a fudge on teh rule of LOS, assuming
teh mage can 'see' all around).


The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 20
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 07:28:02 -0600 (MDT)
Pete Sims wrote:
|
|>But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can the
|>mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with him
|>as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?

I don't know how much weight this carries, but in the SEGA
Genesis ShadowRun game Barriers are fixed in place. And
Dowd's name is on the credits. On the other hand the
Barriers always go up as walls (never domes). Just
something to think about.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 21
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:21:31 +0100 (BST)
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Pete Sims wrote:

> mage to dive behind cover. Primarily I advise players to treat barrier
> spells as "temporary walls, and discourage the "dome" type, that way,

I like teh domes though. My mage character cast a mana barrier dome over
an escaping elf and managed to contain him whilst teh other players could
still threaten to shoot him etc.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 22
From: 3011_3@***.EDU
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 18:37:30 -0700 (PDT)
> > But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can the
> > mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with him
> > as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?
>
> Here's my house rule on teh whole thing.
> If the barrier is cast on a point in space it is immobile, if it is cast
> on a person or other item able to move, it will move with it.

I know some of you have played AD&D. I'll have to agree with this
one... perhaps its my AD&D bias, but there, if you target something
immobile, the spell is immobile. If you cast a spell on something, and
it moves, the spell goes with it..


---Tom---
Message no. 23
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:47:33 +0100 (BST)
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 3011_3@***.edu wrote:

> > Here's my house rule on teh whole thing.
> > If the barrier is cast on a point in space it is immobile, if it is cast
> > on a person or other item able to move, it will move with it.
>
> I know some of you have played AD&D. I'll have to agree with this
> one... perhaps its my AD&D bias, but there, if you target something
> immobile, the spell is immobile. If you cast a spell on something, and
> it moves, the spell goes with it..
No! I've only once played AD&D and it was terrible (I asked teh GM to kill
my character off) I grew up on WFRP and SR, right from when it first came
out! :) :) :) :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 24
From: 3011_3@***.EDU
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 12:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
<snip>
> > I know some of you have played AD&D. I'll have to agree with this
> > one... perhaps its my AD&D bias, but there, if you target something
> > immobile, the spell is immobile. If you cast a spell on something, and
> > it moves, the spell goes with it..

> No! I've only once played AD&D and it was terrible (I asked teh GM to kill
> my character off) I grew up on WFRP and SR, right from when it first came
> out! :) :) :) :)

HERESY!! BLASPHEMY!! DEATH TO THE INFIDEL!!!

(Boy, you must have had a really sh*tty DM... I live and breathe AD&D...
I only get to play SRII during the summer...)

---Tom---
Message no. 25
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:06:36 -0700
<SNIP>
> >But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can
the
> >mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with
him
> >as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?
>
> The very few times I've come across this, I've always ruled that the
> barrier is fixed. This prevents mages casting a spell or bullet barrier
> with an area of effect and using that to "walk" the team in. The
> barrier is fixed, it is immobile on the spot it was cast, the mage
> however, can move inside the barrier (if dome form- provided he has the
> space) and can hit the deck to cower form *whatever*, I also allow the
> mage to dive behind cover. Primarily I advise players to treat barrier
> spells as "temporary walls, and discourage the "dome" type, that way,
> the mage is allowed free movement, the barrier stays where the mage puts
> it and does what it is intended to do.
>
> The prospect of a "barriered" mage wandering randomly around in an area
> of threat scares the crap out of me, and seems to lean towards that "the
> mage is the most powerful character stuff" that I hated about other game
> systems. I *do* run a low magic campaign, in keeping with the FASA
> suggestion about the rarity of mages and suchlike (though with the rise
> of mana this situation would obviously change) and use it to scare the
> drek out of my players, but I won't allow moveable barriers in *any*
> form. The logic is, if you build a wall, it stays there, it doesn't
> suddenly sprout legs and wander off. :)

I think I agree more and more with this reasoning as I keep looking at it.
A barrier afterall is a spell cast at a fixed location in space, not on
someone or on a physical target. Thus since it's not cast on the mage or
another member of the party it shouldn't move or follow that person around.
In this vein, spell-locking the barrier wouldn't really make sense
either...since I'm not casting the barrier ON myself, how could I really
LOCK it to myself?

Hmmmmmm...
Message no. 26
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:25:29 -0700
<SNIP>
> |>But again there's the question, is the barrier fixed in location or can
the
> |>mage continue to just wander about and have the barrier move along with
him
> |>as it's center like some giant mobile igloo?
>
> I don't know how much weight this carries, but in the SEGA
> Genesis ShadowRun game Barriers are fixed in place. And
> Dowd's name is on the credits. On the other hand the
> Barriers always go up as walls (never domes). Just
> something to think about.

Kind of a strange source, but a good point. I'm sure the game designers had
to of done some consulting on it.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 27
From: Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:04:55 +1000 (EST)
> > The very few times I've come across this, I've always ruled that the
> > barrier is fixed. This prevents mages casting a spell or bullet barrier
> > with an area of effect and using that to "walk" the team in. The
> > barrier is fixed, it is immobile on the spot it was cast, the mage
> > however, can move inside the barrier (if dome form- provided he has the
> > space) and can hit the deck to cower form *whatever*, I also allow the
> > mage to dive behind cover. Primarily I advise players to treat barrier
> > spells as "temporary walls, and discourage the "dome" type, that
way,
> > the mage is allowed free movement, the barrier stays where the mage puts
> > it and does what it is intended to do.
> >

> I think I agree more and more with this reasoning as I keep looking at it.
> A barrier afterall is a spell cast at a fixed location in space, not on
> someone or on a physical target. Thus since it's not cast on the mage or
> another member of the party it shouldn't move or follow that person around.
> In this vein, spell-locking the barrier wouldn't really make sense
> either...since I'm not casting the barrier ON myself, how could I really
> LOCK it to myself?
>

Hate to rain on your parade guys, but what happens when you cast the
spell "Personal" bullet barrier, or suchlike. It's certainly portable,
and the drain code is equivalent to a personal version of the same spell.

I personally like the idea of normal barriers being non-portable (becasue
I've encountered trouble with invulnerable characters), but the
rules-lawyer side of me just can't lie down and die sometimes.

Bleach
Message no. 28
From: Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:07:19 +1000 (EST)
> Kind of a strange source, but a good point. I'm sure the game designers had
> to of done some consulting on it.
>
What's the point in locking a bullet barrier to a car, then... as far as
we can figure that's the best way to stop a gun-based assasination
attempt, becasue there is no way in hell that any glass window is going
to stop an APDS sniper rifle bullet (They peak at Barrier Rating 8)
Message no. 29
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:03:36 +0100
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961010180214.9759C-100000@*****.student.gu.edu
.au>, Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au> writes
>> > The very few times I've come across this, I've always ruled that the
>> > barrier is fixed. This prevents mages casting a spell or bullet barrier
>> > with an area of effect and using that to "walk" the team in. The
[snip]
>> I think I agree more and more with this reasoning as I keep looking at it.
>> A barrier afterall is a spell cast at a fixed location in space, not on
>> someone or on a physical target. Thus since it's not cast on the mage or
>> another member of the party it shouldn't move or follow that person around.
>> In this vein, spell-locking the barrier wouldn't really make sense
>> either...since I'm not casting the barrier ON myself, how could I really
>> LOCK it to myself?
>>
>
>Hate to rain on your parade guys, but what happens when you cast the
>spell "Personal" bullet barrier, or suchlike. It's certainly portable,
>and the drain code is equivalent to a personal version of the same spell.

No rain felt here. A personal bullet barrier, is exactly what it says,
"personal", however, if you take the example FASA used (novel or
sourcebook - can't remember), where an Elven character was caught in a
firefight inside an Ork clan house. He cast/activated a personal bullet
barrier, and was left standing in the area, attempting to resist the
bullets. (I'll have to bow here, because I really can't remember where
the example came from - I know a man who might, but I can't check till
tomorrow)

Under normal circumstances, a personal bullet barrier, as opposed to a
normal barrier will be fixed, unless locked to an item the Mage is
wearing, carrying. In this case, I will allow mobility. But as we all
know, successive hits from a weapon will bring the barrier down. So
it's not a good idea to walk into fire. It's a "get the frag outta here
spell. Other barriers, are locked in place. I find it simplifies the
magic, and where I don't allow my PCs to wander around with barrier
domes over their teams, it means my Sec. Corp teams don't either.

Consider it, a Security Force with two combat mages splits into two
squads, both flank the PCs using barriers to protect the squads, instant
death to PCs. Even if the PCs have a protecting mage, he can't stand
against two incoming mages, and two combat teams. Dead players, end
game, re select character types, next run. Boring. Fix the barrier in
place, allows a method to block and avenue of approach, and allow
entrance or escape *at speed* while not unbalancing the game. Of
course, opposition can also use this trick, but it makes life more
interesting. :)

>
>I personally like the idea of normal barriers being non-portable (becasue
>I've encountered trouble with invulnerable characters), but the
>rules-lawyer side of me just can't lie down and die sometimes.

That's OK, you've met someone who doesn't like rules lawyers. :) No
offense intended, but I've played against and with "lawyers". The
*rules* per se are "guidelines" not black and white religion to be
obeyed on pain of death. I didn't feel that the mobile dome theory was
a viable or fair prospect, so disallowed the facility to prevent
imbalance. It works for me, and I think might work for others, unless
of course, one is a mage that uses this trick. :)

Just my thoughts and opinion. :)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 30
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 23:23:02 -0700
<SNIP>
> Hate to rain on your parade guys, but what happens when you cast the
> spell "Personal" bullet barrier, or suchlike. It's certainly portable,
> and the drain code is equivalent to a personal version of the same spell.
>
> I personally like the idea of normal barriers being non-portable (becasue

> I've encountered trouble with invulnerable characters), but the
> rules-lawyer side of me just can't lie down and die sometimes.

Not raining on anything. A barrier spell being personal just means it's a
more specific spell, smaller with an easier drain. Why does its being
personal suddenly make it portable?

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 31
From: Peter Bailey <pbailey@***.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:23:44 -0700
Hi Rick,

> The mages in our group are (justifiably) paranoid, so one of the spells
> they tend to lock is Barrier or Mana Barrier. Now, I've ruled that
> when they lock the Barrier, the shape is set. Assume they put it into
> a dome around themselves.

Same way I'd rule.

> Case 1: Mage is standing in a field, he activates the lock:
>
> ******
> **** ****
> ** **
> * M *
> ** **
> **** ****
> ******
>
>
> Obviously, not a problem.

Correct.

> Case 2: Mage is standing in an alley

As I see it, the mage would have two options;
1. Form the barrier so that the shape about him was taken into
account, or
2. Try to push the walls over with the barrier.

> And if he leaves the Alley, does it "balloon" out?

I'd say no. Once cast, the barrier shape is fixed.

> And, what if it's a Mana Barrier, and he casts it in the Alley, does
> it automatically flow through the walls (even though it wouldn't go
> through a vehicle)?

Sure, it'd go through the walls. Wouldn't do anything when it got
through, but it'd go through.

> And what happens if there's someone on the other side of the wall?

Nothing.

> Or, what if he moves out of the alley, and there's a person at the
> corner? Does it bound the person back?

The instant an individual comes into LOS of the centre of the spell,
he/she/it becomes subject to it's effects. Of course, if they are
already inside the barrier, that's not going to do much is it??? :)

> And (this one a player asked me today), what if he casts a mana barrier,
> walks past a porta-potty so that it's now inside the barrier, and the
> guy inside opens the door?

HeH! The guy is caught inside the mage's barrier!.
Message no. 32
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 06:02:04 +0100
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961012140052.14726F-100000@*****.student.gu.ed
u.au>, Marty <s457033@*******.gu.edu.au> writes

[snip]
>> No rain felt here. A personal bullet barrier, is exactly what it says,
>> "personal", however, if you take the example FASA used (novel or
>> sourcebook - can't remember), where an Elven character was caught in a
>> firefight inside an Ork clan house. He cast/activated a personal bullet
>> barrier, and was left standing in the area, attempting to resist the
>> bullets. (I'll have to bow here, because I really can't remember where
>> the example came from - I know a man who might, but I can't check till
>> tomorrow)
>>
>Well, fuck me rotten; That really sucks. So you can't keep any kind of
>barrier up as insurance. That means that next time we have to driop
>somone who's wearing a personal bullet barier, I'm going to just plug him
>continuosly so he can't move, and then call up the heavy artillery
>(grenade launchers) or the knife thrower.

Apparrently, but like I said, I'm working from memory here. BUt that's
the logic of it, basically don't leave a mage in a position of
vulnerability.
>
>If you're stuck a long way from cover, it means you've got to drop the
>barrier to move and hide, and then someone who has delayed actions can just
>off you when you do.

One of the risks of the Shadows, also it prevents Mages taking over the
game.

>
>If you could find the quote, I'd be grateful.

I will try, should be speaking to the "brain of the year" tomorrow
(Sunday) so I'll know more then. :)
>
>Or we could just ask FASAMike. This discussion has gone on quite a
>while, you know.

Yeah, could do, I have no objection, I don't know about the conversation
going on a while, I've only just joined in. :)

[snip barrier rules and description]

I agree with all of this, and use it myself. Barriers are a "visible
shimmering field", and yes. if you shoot someone from behind a bullet
barrier, you'd better duck. :)

[snip]
>Actually, I'm not a rules-lawyer, just a logician. I'm quite happy to
>ingore the rules if I can find a logical excuse or premise to use. I'm
>even happy to bend logic if it gets the players out of a tight spot; I'm
>a GM and high mortality campaigns lose you players rapidly.
>
Wasn't implying that you were, I was just saying that you've met someone
who doesn't really care. I use what I think is right, if it doesn't
fit, it's gone, if it works. Great. :) That's a true statement about
the mortality rates. Players don't like losing characters too often,
same as GMs don't like losing favourite NPCs to players, unless there's
a good reason of course. :)

I won't know till Monday, where the reference comes from. But if you
feel like asking FasaMike, go ahead, he might be able to answer quicker.

TTYL
Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 33
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 14:12:35 +1000
> >Hate to rain on your parade guys, but what happens when you cast the
> >spell "Personal" bullet barrier, or suchlike. It's certainly portable,
> >and the drain code is equivalent to a personal version of the same spell.
>
> No rain felt here. A personal bullet barrier, is exactly what it says,
> "personal", however, if you take the example FASA used (novel or
> sourcebook - can't remember), where an Elven character was caught in a
> firefight inside an Ork clan house. He cast/activated a personal bullet
> barrier, and was left standing in the area, attempting to resist the
> bullets. (I'll have to bow here, because I really can't remember where
> the example came from - I know a man who might, but I can't check till
> tomorrow)
>
Well, fuck me rotten; That really sucks. So you can't keep any kind of
barrier up as insurance. That means that next time we have to driop
somone who's wearing a personal bullet barier, I'm going to just plug him
continuosly so he can't move, and then call up the heavy artillery
(grenade launchers) or the knife thrower.

If you're stuck a long way from cover, it means you've got to drop the
barrier to move and hide, and then someone who has delayed actions can just
off you when you do.

If you could find the quote, I'd be grateful.

Or we could just ask FASAMike. This discussion has gone on quite a
while, you know.

> spell. Other barriers, are locked in place. I find it simplifies the
> magic, and where I don't allow my PCs to wander around with barrier
> domes over their teams, it means my Sec. Corp teams don't either.
>
Just make them really viible; We've kinda abandoned the 'spells are
invisible' rule... We figure anything with an effect on the real plane
has to be visible.

Barriers are shimmering fields of coloured distortion. The coloured
distortion increases when the barrier has to repel something. That means
that Physical barriers and Mana barriers shimmer pretty constantly due to
dust and airbourne bacteria.

It's pretty hard to hide when you've got a twelve meter diameter
shimmering sphere around you, and if you do, then the mage is going to
make the barrier his first target.

Also remember that barriers work both ways; Bullet barriers can't be fired
out of without the power level drop.

> That's OK, you've met someone who doesn't like rules lawyers. :) No
> offense intended, but I've played against and with "lawyers". The
> *rules* per se are "guidelines" not black and white religion to be
> obeyed on pain of death. I didn't feel that the mobile dome theory was
> a viable or fair prospect, so disallowed the facility to prevent
> imbalance. It works for me, and I think might work for others, unless
> of course, one is a mage that uses this trick. :)
>
Actually, I'm not a rules-lawyer, just a logician. I'm quite happy to
ingore the rules if I can find a logical excuse or premise to use. I'm
even happy to bend logic if it gets the players out of a tight spot; I'm
a GM and high mortality campaigns lose you players rapidly.
Message no. 34
From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:54:56 -0700
> Not raining on anything. A barrier spell being personal just means it's a
> more specific spell, smaller with an easier drain. Why does its being
> personal suddenly make it portable?
>

IMHO because of the target. A normal barriers target is limited where a
personal barrier is targeted at the caster not just one person, but the
caster only. Thats why it is portable it is tied to the casters aura so if
it moves then the barrier moves.


Caric
Message no. 35
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:44:49 +1000
> > No rain felt here. A personal bullet barrier, is exactly what it says,
> > "personal", however, if you take the example FASA used (novel or
> > sourcebook - can't remember), where an Elven character was caught in a
> > firefight inside an Ork clan house. He cast/activated a personal bullet
> > barrier, and was left standing in the area, attempting to resist the
> > bullets. (I'll have to bow here, because I really can't remember where
> > the example came from - I know a man who might, but I can't check till
> > tomorrow)
> >
> Well, fuck me rotten; That really sucks. So you can't keep any kind of
> barrier up as insurance. That means that next time we have to driop
> somone who's wearing a personal bullet barier, I'm going to just plug him
> continuosly so he can't move, and then call up the heavy artillery
> (grenade launchers) or the knife thrower.
>
> If you're stuck a long way from cover, it means you've got to drop the
> barrier to move and hide, and then someone who has delayed actions can just
> off you when you do.
>
> If you could find the quote, I'd be grateful.

I have no idea of the page, but the book was the novel 'never trust an
elf'


Ray.

_______________________________________________________________________
| 'The Universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be |
| missed.' |
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EMAIL: n1565842@*******.qut.edu.au or
r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au
Message no. 36
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:54:59 +1000
> > I've encountered trouble with invulnerable characters), but the
> > rules-lawyer side of me just can't lie down and die sometimes.
>
> Not raining on anything. A barrier spell being personal just means it's a
> more specific spell, smaller with an easier drain. Why does its being
> personal suddenly make it portable?
>
Check the drain code rules in the Grimoire.... It the area effect version
was non-portable, I'd want some concession on the drain resistance test.

You may have seen my post about what I'd do if I saw a guy with a
non-portable barrier spell... Plug him repeately so he can't move, and
bring up a grenade.

It also makes it a lot harder to make a car survive.... The thickest
window I SR is barrier rating 8, so the easiest way to assasinate
someone in a car, even if it's armoured like a Banshee is to shoot in the
windows and fire a grenade in.... A bullet barrier would stop that.

O.K. then, what happens if you activate a bullet barrier when you're on
some form of transportation??? Do you keep on moving?? Can you stop???

Bleach
Message no. 37
From: olafur gunnarsson <olafurg@******.IS>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 00:58:38 GMT
Idd say if you cast a barrier inside a car it would be fixed to the car wich
mean that you could keep moving as long as you are inside the car but if you
try to move out of the car your stuck.
Ive talked this over with my players and they agree that the spell should be
fixed in place once cast to make it easier on everyone.. Remember it works
both ways they can move under a barrier the enemy cant move under the
barrier.Unless the barrier is cast
inside a moving vehicle.
-Olafur G
Message no. 38
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:59:59 PDT
>Check the drain code rules in the Grimoire.... It the area effect version
>was non-portable, I'd want some concession on the drain resistance test.

Umm... You can't get a barrier spell without an area effect.
Message no. 39
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:26:09 +1000
> >Check the drain code rules in the Grimoire.... It the area effect version
> >was non-portable, I'd want some concession on the drain resistance test.
>
> Umm... You can't get a barrier spell without an area effect.
>
Read the personal variant on the spell, and give me your opinion on how
you'd work it, then.
Message no. 40
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:14:30 -0400
Marty wrote:
>
<Snip>

> If you're stuck a long way from cover, it means you've got to drop the
> barrier to move and hide, and then someone who has delayed actions can just
> off you when you do.

I use the house rule that domes and walls can't be moved once cast, but
personal barriers can. Otherwise, there is hardly any point of having
them. If you are in some crossfire and want some added protection, you
don't want to lock yourself into one spot that's still in the crossfire
because no barrier is impenetrable...it's just a matter of time before
you are toast.

This way, you can still run for cover with some safety. Also, if you
use a dome or wall, you will have some space to move around in to assist
in finding cover...I think this helps balance things out.

<Snip>

> Just make them really viible; We've kinda abandoned the 'spells are
> invisible' rule... We figure anything with an effect on the real plane
> has to be visible.

Your house rules are yours to choose, but you should be aware that the
rules cover this in detail. According to the rules, barriers are indeed
visible, because they are Manipulation spells....all Manipulation spells
have a direct physical presence (perhaps with the exclusion of
controlling manipulations).

So, a physical spell that sends a bolt of fire at someone would be
visible as such. All other categories of spells are different from
this, however. They target the victim by synchronizing the aura of the
casting mage with the victim. Then the energy leaps from one aura to
the other ON ASTRAL SPACE, not physically. They then attack the victim
from within. (This is why armor has no effect on combat spells.) If
you ruled that all spells had physical presences, in order to be
consistent, you would have to treat all spells as Manipulation
spells...applying armor, etc.

Keep in mind that the rules do mention that a powerful spell might have
a similar effect to elementals on the astral....a distortion of the
air. So, if the spell were particularly powerful, you could rule that
the air seemed to distort between the caster and the victim while the
spell was travelling the distance in astral space.

Feel free to rule as you like for your game, but I wanted to make sure
you knew what the rules stated, so you could make an educated decision
and perhaps avoid undue problems in the future. :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 41
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:20:03 -0400
Benjamin wrote:
>
> >Check the drain code rules in the Grimoire.... It the area effect version
> >was non-portable, I'd want some concession on the drain resistance test.
>
> Umm... You can't get a barrier spell without an area effect.

Umm... Yes you can. They are called "personal" barriers.
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 42
From: A Halliwell <u5a77@**.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: question about locked barriers
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:11:03 +0100
|
|>Check the drain code rules in the Grimoire.... It the area effect version
|>was non-portable, I'd want some concession on the drain resistance test.
|
|Umm... You can't get a barrier spell without an area effect.
|

True, but the area effect of a personal one should be shaped to your aura.
(Still an area, but not a restrictive one...)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
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