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Message no. 1
From: Andrew <andrew.fairhurst@*******.CO.UK>
Subject: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:58:25 +0100
In my game i had put in an old safe with a combination lock. i estimated
the material strength to be barrier rating 25 and the lock i set as rating
15. when the runners found the safe they were stopped by the lock.
generously i let them try to pick it defaulting to their intelegence with a
+6 mod to give a TN of 21, no one managed it. This gave rise to a 20 minute
discussion about how to take the entire safe! all 1000Kg of it!

Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks, as the
SR2 source books i have dont mention it?

Thanks
Andrew
Message no. 2
From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:15:53 GMT
And so, on Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:58:25 +0100 did Andrew
<andrew.fairhurst@*******.CO.UK> quoth merrily:

>Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks, as =
the
>SR2 source books i have dont mention it?

I doubt it, just invent a new skill.

Chameleon,

--
Don't be silly. If this was REALLY the ships self destuct button,
do you think they would leave it lying around where anyone could press =
it?
- Famous Last Words
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
I'm always here, you just don't see me:)
Message no. 3
From: Drea O'Dare <dreaodare@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:33:12 PDT
>Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks, as
the
>SR2 source books i have dont mention it?

The Corporate Security Handbook has a humongous spiel about locks -
all kinds of 'em, from pin & Tumbler locks to maglocks. Oddly enough,
they don't really give a skill for really gettin' past 'em. Sure,
Maglocks are covered under the Electronics skill, but you're still
pretty much out of luck as far as the whole easy way out thing goes.
So, here's what I suggest. I don't have the number of sourcebooks
available to me as say.....anyone else, but heck, I'll give it a shot.
It should maybe be listed as a separate skill under the heading of the
Technical Skills - Biotech and all that rot. Just put it in there
somewhere, and default to Intelligence, just like all the other stuff in
that heading. Though with a hefty penalty, of course, along with
whatever mods due to situation, etc, since the little buggies are tough
to get working right if you've got a lot of trouble on your back.

Pink`

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 4
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:15:46 +0100
And verily, did Andrew hastily scribble thusly...
|Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks, as the
|SR2 source books i have dont mention it?

Build/Repair locks is the obvioud one.
Concentration: Mechanical
Specialisation: Chub 1245 tumbler combination

:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 5
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:49:46 +1000
At 09:58 20/09/98 +0100, Andrew wrote:
>In my game i had put in an old safe with a combination lock. i estimated
>the material strength to be barrier rating 25 and the lock i set as rating
>15. when the runners found the safe they were stopped by the lock.
>generously i let them try to pick it defaulting to their intelegence with a
>+6 mod to give a TN of 21, no one managed it. This gave rise to a 20 minute
>discussion about how to take the entire safe! all 1000Kg of it!
>
>Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks, as the
>SR2 source books i have dont mention it?

Just create a new technical skill for your game like we did:

LOCKSMITH (Technical Active Skill)
Knowledge and experience in the operation and manipulation of all types of
physical locks from common latches through to key locks to the most
complicated combination safes. This skill can be used to open mechanical
locks and bars using the same game mechanics as used with the Electronics
skill on electronic locks. The Locksmith's kit is detailed below.

KIT - LOCKS & ENTRY
Acoustic amplifier unit, arc microtorch, drill & bit set, fibre optic
pinhole viewer, glasscutter, lock-gun & skeleton keys set, lock-picks set,
precision acoustic imaging unit, small jimmy bar, small laser cutter, small
monofil cutters set, small monofil saw, suction handles.





Chris Maxfield
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au>
------------------------------------------
The separation of relevant from irrelevant factors is the beginning
of knowledge.
- Reichenbach
----------------------------------------
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 6
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:54:16 -0400
Christ Maxfield wrote:
> LOCKSMITH (Technical Active Skill)
> Knowledge and experience in the operation and manipulation of all types of
> physical locks from common latches through to key locks to the most
> complicated combination safes. This skill can be used to open mechanical
> locks and bars using the same game mechanics as used with the Electronics
> skill on electronic locks. The Locksmith's kit is detailed below.

This seems about right, but I wonder if it's not too specialized,
compared to other general technical skills. Perhaps it should be a
concentration of some broader skill? Mechanical B/R?

--Sean
Message no. 7
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:02:21 -0400
Sean McCrohan wrote:
>
> This seems about right, but I wonder if it's not too specialized,
> compared to other general technical skills. Perhaps it should be a
> concentration of some broader skill? Mechanical B/R?

There was a character in the old campaign with a Mechanical Engineering skill.
This covered locks, mechanical traps, certain types of machinery, etc.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 8
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:37:06 EDT
In a message dated 9/20/98 7:57:07 AM, Sean wrote:

> This seems about right, but I wonder if it's not too specialized,
>compared to other general technical skills. Perhaps it should be a
>concentration of some broader skill? Mechanical B/R?

I think it's a concentration in search of a skill, one that could reasonably
be part of skills like Escape Artist or Stage Magic (a skill my current
character has for just that reason).

Smilin' Ted
Message no. 9
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:44:28 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 02:33 AM 9/20/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks,
as
>the
>>SR2 source books i have dont mention it?
>
> The Corporate Security Handbook has a humongous spiel about locks -
>all kinds of 'em, from pin & Tumbler locks to maglocks. Oddly
enough,
>they don't really give a skill for really gettin' past 'em.

Though in Cybertechnololgy, a piece of equpipment called ExpertPicks
is
introduced, for the purposes of picking tumbler locks. (they were
introduced in Cybertech, because they happened to be Fingertip
Compartment mounted, though I wouldn't require it.)

BTW: ExpertPicks have a skill rating of 3. No, they don't say what the
skill is either.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 10
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:53:03 -0700
:> LOCKSMITH (Technical Active Skill)
:> Knowledge and experience in the operation and manipulation of all types
of
:> physical locks from common latches through to key locks to the most
:> complicated combination safes. This skill can be used to open
mechanical
:> locks and bars using the same game mechanics as used with the
Electronics
:> skill on electronic locks. The Locksmith's kit is detailed below.
:
: This seems about right, but I wonder if it's not too specialized,
:compared to other general technical skills. Perhaps it should be a
:concentration of some broader skill? Mechanical B/R?
:


Naw, considering that locksmithing is a profession, and even
professionals have trouble picking some locks (and safes can be
impossible, without cutting tools), It qualifies as its own skill.
However, it would make a good background knowledge skill, requiring a
default- not to many folks are active locksmiths, but more know
lockpicking theory.

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: Leszek Karlik aka Mike <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:36:01 GMT
On 20 Sep 98 08:58:25 GMT, andrew.fairhurst@*******.CO.UK (Andrew)
disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by writing:

[...]
>Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks, as the
>SR2 source books i have dont mention it?

I have a following skill:

General skill: Locksmithing (technical)
Concentration: Lockpicking
Specialization: specific lock
(other concentrations include keymaking and stuff like that)

(Oh, and IMC, ExpertPicks(TM), the non-cyberfinger mounted version, are
available in different models: from a miniature Skill 3 one to a big,
pistol-mounted Skill 5 one. (The skill, in this case, is Lockpicking) Pick
& choose. ;>>)

>Thanks
>Andrew
Leslie
--
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
Star Wars junkie; ICQ UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
GL/O d- s+: a20 C+++ L++ P E--- W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O+ M- PS+(+++)
PE Y+ PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
Message no. 12
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:49:16 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-20 13:39:04 EDT, you write:

<<
I think it's a concentration in search of a skill, one that could reasonably
be part of skills like Escape Artist or Stage Magic (a skill my current
character has for just that reason).

>>

This sounds like a concentration that could fall under both Mechanical
engineering, and Escape artist. Stage magic would be more of stage presence
and other slights of hand that dont really involve escapes. There is a lot of
magic that doesnt involve escapes.
Message no. 13
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:58:01 -0400
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Andrew wrote:

->In my game i had put in an old safe with a combination lock. i estimated
->the material strength to be barrier rating 25 and the lock i set as rating
->15. when the runners found the safe they were stopped by the lock.
->generously i let them try to pick it defaulting to their intelegence with a
->+6 mod to give a TN of 21, no one managed it. This gave rise to a 20 minute
->discussion about how to take the entire safe! all 1000Kg of it!
->
->Is there any skill for picking old mechanical or combination locks, as the
->SR2 source books i have dont mention it?

Knowledge skill: 20th century locksmithing. ]:-)

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 14
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:01:04 -0400
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Drea O'Dare wrote:

<snippy>
-> So, here's what I suggest. I don't have the number of sourcebooks
->available to me as say.....anyone else, but heck, I'll give it a shot.
->It should maybe be listed as a separate skill under the heading of the
->Technical Skills - Biotech and all that rot. Just put it in there
->somewhere, and default to Intelligence, just like all the other stuff in
->that heading. Though with a hefty penalty, of course, along with
->whatever mods due to situation, etc, since the little buggies are tough
->to get working right if you've got a lot of trouble on your back.

I'd have to say you could default to the lower of Quickness or
Intelligence, I've had to break into my own house and car several times
(I keep forgetting my keys) and have gotten fairly good at it (guess I
paid the Karma to get the skill). If your fingers aren't as nimble as
your brain needs them to be, picking the lock is REALLY hard.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 15
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:39:09 EDT
In a message dated 9/20/98 11:50:46 PM, Strrnger wrote:

>This sounds like a concentration that could fall under both Mechanical
>engineering, and Escape artist. Stage magic would be more of stage presence
>and other slights of hand that dont really involve escapes. There is a lot
of
>magic that doesnt involve escapes.

I'm not sure about what you mean by "stage presence". When I was in theater
(back in college), stage presence was the ability of a performer to hold the
interest of an audience while on stage; it had nothing to with "slights [sic]
of hand." Perhaps you mean misdirection?

I also don't see why Stage Magic should only include sleight of hand. A lot of
magic acts involve not only escapes, but sophisticated mechanics in the form
of locks, timers, pulleys, carpentry, etc. Houdini learned locksmithing as a
boy; his magical namesake, Robert-Houdin, was renowned for "effects" that made
great use of intricate mechanical devices, as opposed to sleight of hand. Most
big Vegas magicicians include escapes in their acts as well as disappearances,
sleights, and mentalism tricks. In fact, in Stage Magic you could specialize
in any of these areas, and move Escape Artist out of Athletics entirely.... I
feel a House Rule coming on....

ST
Message no. 16
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:36:12 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-21 12:42:58 EDT, Tuvyah@***.COM writes:

<< I'm not sure about what you mean by "stage presence". When I was in
theater
(back in college), stage presence was the ability of a performer to hold the
interest of an audience while on stage; it had nothing to with "slights [sic]
of hand." Perhaps you mean misdirection? >>

Yes and no. Stage Magic includes the large number of tricks that dont involve
escapes (or are actually rigged in such a way that the person does not need as
much skill as you expect). But yes, it does include ones stage presence,
think about it... havent you ever seen an amature magician at a childs party
who no-one pays attention to? Low stage presense. It would also include
misdirection, but it DOES include slight of hand because many of the smaller,
close in magic tricks that one learns on the way to being a stage magician.
And a lot more tricks involve palming various items and that sort of slight of
hand than you think.
Message no. 17
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:56:14 -0600
Micheal Feeney's contribution to ShadowRN was:
/
/ In a message dated 98-09-21 12:42:58 EDT, Tuvyah@***.COM writes:
/
/ << I'm not sure about what you mean by "stage presence". When I was in
theater
/ (back in college), stage presence was the ability of a performer to hold the
/ interest of an audience while on stage; it had nothing to with "slights [sic]
/ of hand." Perhaps you mean misdirection? >>
/
/ Yes and no. Stage Magic includes the large number of tricks that dont involve
/ escapes (or are actually rigged in such a way that the person does not need as
/ much skill as you expect). But yes, it does include ones stage presence,
/ think about it... havent you ever seen an amature magician at a childs party
/ who no-one pays attention to? Low stage presense. It would also include
/ misdirection, but it DOES include slight of hand because many of the smaller,
/ close in magic tricks that one learns on the way to being a stage magician.
/ And a lot more tricks involve palming various items and that sort of slight of
/ hand than you think.

It sounds like you're trying to combine two different issues: skill
(slight of hand) and charisma (stage presence). A stage performer with
an incredible ammount of charisma can hold a crowd even if he has an
average skill. Likewise, an audience can be enraptured by mind
boggling skill even though the performer has the presence of a turnip.
<python> OooOo! Look at what that turnip is doing! I don't think
I've ever seen a turnip do *that*. </python> :) However, stage presence
and skill are two seperate abilities.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 18
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:46:33 EDT
In a message dated 9/21/98 10:38:13 AM, Starrnger wrote:

>Yes and no. Stage Magic includes the large number of tricks that dont
involve
>escapes (or are actually rigged in such a way that the person does not need
as
>much skill as you expect). But yes, it does include ones stage presence,
>think about it... havent you ever seen an amature magician at a childs party
>who no-one pays attention to? Low stage presense. It would also include
>misdirection, but it DOES include slight of hand because many of the smaller,
>close in magic tricks that one learns on the way to being a stage magician.
>And a lot more tricks involve palming various items and that sort of slight
of
>hand than you think.

Stage Magic also includes escapes. I've yet to see an Escape Artist who was
not also a magician. As for stage presence, some of that involves tricks that
can be learned; some of it is innate charisma; and it's not unique to magic --
it's part of any Performing skill.

Since the SR skill Stage Magic doesn't exist in the core rules, in my game
we've abstracted it from what you would expect to see in Vegas or the Magic
Castle -- and it does involve knowledge of locks, sleights, and misdirection.
(Thanks Erik!) Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I'm looking forward to
it.....

ST
Message no. 19
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:41:22 -0400
At 03:46 PM 9/21/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Stage Magic also includes escapes. I've yet to see an Escape Artist who was
>not also a magician. As for stage presence, some of that involves tricks that
>can be learned; some of it is innate charisma; and it's not unique to
magic --
>it's part of any Performing skill.

And some people simple have "Presence" regarding of what the do or the fact
they've never performed in their life. Some people just have "it" and
others don't. Most of us, myself included, don't. That doesn't mean I
lack charisma or stage presence, I don't. I just don't have "it."

>Since the SR skill Stage Magic doesn't exist in the core rules, in my game

In *your* game Ted? ;-)

>we've abstracted it from what you would expect to see in Vegas or the Magic
>Castle -- and it does involve knowledge of locks, sleights, and misdirection.
>(Thanks Erik!) Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I'm looking forward to
>it.....

Yup. It just makes sense for the character in question. Everyone should
be aware that I will monitor any sort of "lock picking" usage of Stage
Magic very closely. And isn't it funny how so many folks, including Lone
Star, use modern maglocks... ;-)

Aside from that, I just keep waiting for the character to pull a credstick
out of someone's ear.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 20
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:43:50 EDT
In a message dated 9/21/98 2:44:36 PM, ErikJ wrote:

>>Since the SR skill Stage Magic doesn't exist in the core rules, in my game
>
>In *your* game Ted? ;-)

Ahem. Cough-cough. Embarrassed shuffle of feet.

Er..."my" in the sense of "the game in which I play. Which is. My game, of
mine, with my GM. Ahem. My game, which is the game in which my character is."

Smilin' Ted
Hoping someone will catch the Monty Python reference.
Message no. 21
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:45:02 EDT
In a message dated 9/21/98 2:44:36 PM, ErikJ wrote:

>Yup. It just makes sense for the character in question. Everyone should
>be aware that I will monitor any sort of "lock picking" usage of Stage
>Magic very closely. And isn't it funny how so many folks, including Lone
>Star, use modern maglocks... ;-)
>
>Aside from that, I just keep waiting for the character to pull a credstick
>out of someone's ear.

Be fair. If I did it to Keeb, I'd need to grow a new arm. "He pulled something
out of my ear! I shoot it!" <g>

ST
Message no. 22
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:57:05 -0400
At 01:45 AM 9/22/98 EDT, you wrote:

>>Aside from that, I just keep waiting for the character to pull a credstick
>>out of someone's ear.
>
>Be fair. If I did it to Keeb, I'd need to grow a new arm. "He pulled
something
>out of my ear! I shoot it!" <g>

You mean the "Shoots Innocents," the rabid elf adept? I shoot it! No, I
punch it! I mercilessly taunt the old man that is obviously terrified of
me to the point of driving him to gibberish!

But seriously, you've gotta use that Stage Magic skill to do that sort of
thing sometime. Part of the reason for having unique skills, in my
opinion, is to do the sorts of odd, non-combat things that add drama and
spice to the game. Like the guy who's yo-yo throwing skill saved his life.
That's a big reason why I like the new Knowledge Skill set-up in SR3;
there's so much more room for these general sorts of skills. I mean, who
in their right mind would have taken points and spent them on "Trog Punk
Bands" before SR3?

Sorry, rambling.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 23
From: Smilin' Ted <Tuvyah@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:35:03 EDT
In a message dated 9/22/98 8:58:42 AM, you wrote:

>You mean the "Shoots Innocents," the rabid elf adept? I shoot it! No, I
>punch it! I mercilessly taunt the old man that is obviously terrified of
>me to the point of driving him to gibberish!

Yeah. That turns-to-glass thing...tell me...is that permanent?

>But seriously, you've gotta use that Stage Magic skill to do that sort of
>thing sometime. Part of the reason for having unique skills, in my
>opinion, is to do the sorts of odd, non-combat things that add drama and
>spice to the game. Like the guy who's yo-yo throwing skill saved his life.
> That's a big reason why I like the new Knowledge Skill set-up in SR3;
>there's so much more room for these general sorts of skills. I mean, who
>in their right mind would have taken points and spent them on "Trog Punk
>Bands" before SR3?

I completely agree. But so far I'm still trying to find my footing. A lot of
the time, there are so many people talking at once that I'm reluctant to add
to the noise level with stuff that's fun but "irrelevant".

Also, the situations in the adventure so far haven't been really conducive to
it, with the exception of the Western adventure, where (IIRC) I was otherwise
engaged....

But tell you what - let me brew up some stink bombs, and we'll see what
happens.

Ted
Message no. 24
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Question about Lock Picking
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:08:23 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-22 12:58:52 EDT, you write:

<< That's a big reason why I like the new Knowledge Skill set-up in SR3;
there's so much more room for these general sorts of skills. I mean, who
in their right mind would have taken points and spent them on "Trog Punk
Bands" before SR3? >>

or Anime lore unless they were playing an Otaku.... or any of the other
knowelge skills that can help really flesh out a personality.

Further Reading

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