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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (sven)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Mon Jul 2 22:55:01 2001
Somethings I ran in to during one of the last sessions:

* can a character use specific supplies from a medkit (fi. tranc
patches).
* if the medkit afterwards indicate a "low on supply" warning does this
mean that there are still some supplies available (fi. bandages,
anti-dote,...)
* is it possible for a decker to upgrade the doctor "expert" system in
accordance with the necessary medicine skills (off course)? If so, what
would be the program modifier to calculate both size and program time?

-sven ;)
--
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Tue Jul 3 04:55:01 2001
According to sven, on Tue, 03 Jul 2001 the word on the street was...

> * can a character use specific supplies from a medkit (fi. tranc
> patches).

Of course you can. Just don't expect to find rules for it anywhere :)
A medkit contains anyting the GM thinks plausible, since FASA never
specified its contents beyond general descriptions. If the GM thinks it
contains a tranq patch then it does, and you could use that. As with any
medkit use, though, I'd make the die roll to see if it's empty now :)

> * if the medkit afterwards indicate a "low on supply" warning does this
> mean that there are still some supplies available (fi. bandages,
> anti-dote,...)

Probably, but not enough to really treat someone with. You could perhaps
apply a kind of "inadequate tools" modifier: less than the +4 for having no
medkit at all, but still making it more difficult than when having a
fully-stocked medkit. I'd only let the players do this once per
(near-)empty medkit, though.

> * is it possible for a decker to upgrade the doctor "expert" system in
> accordance with the necessary medicine skills (off course)? If so, what
> would be the program modifier to calculate both size and program time?

Mongoose?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A bad day fishing is still better than a good day dying.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Tue Jul 3 16:55:01 2001
>* can a character use specific supplies from a medkit (fi. tranc
>patches).

Not easily, I'd say. Medkits are cheap and legal, while tranq patches are,
well, at least a bit harder to find. I'm sure a medkit contains sedatives,
but ones that work just like a slap-patch- maybe not. If you wanted to
create a similar effect, I'd call for a test like that used to create a
toxin antidote- which obviously might deplete medkit supplies.

>* if the medkit afterwards indicate a "low on supply" warning does this
>mean that there are still some supplies available (fi. bandages,
>anti-dote,...)

Gurths "innadiquite tools" suggestion sounds good.

>* is it possible for a decker to upgrade the doctor "expert" system in
>accordance with the necessary medicine skills (off course)? If so, what
>would be the program modifier to calculate both size and program time?

M&M covers the cost of all variable rating medkits, but not the seperate
componants there-of. I think the major cost there would be "hardware"-
sensors, disposable diagnostics tests, etc. Software would be a minor cost.
All medkits cost much less than a program w/ a similar rating would (unless
the multiplier is like .01), so the sotware must either be very small /
simple, or maybe is already "freeware".
Upgrading just the software would not do you much good, IMO, without
improving what the software was connected to. If you wanted to upgrade the
whole kit, I think it would be rather like upgrading electronics gear, you'd
just pay the cost difference.

-Mongoose
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (sven)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Wed Jul 4 03:10:01 2001
Sebastian Wiers wrote:
> Not easily, I'd say. Medkits are cheap and legal, while
> tranq patches are, well, at least a bit harder to find. I'm
> sure a medkit contains sedatives, but ones that work just
> like a slap-patch- maybe not. If you wanted to create a
> similar effect, I'd call for a test like that used to create
> a toxin antidote- which obviously might deplete medkit supplies.

What I used/allowed uptil now where these _one-shot_ injections (RL: saw
these ones during the NBC training in the army) that could be composed
using the different components available in a medkit. I always used the
medkit's rating as a limit for the rating of these injections.

However when reading the description of a medkit again, it seemed more
like a fully/extensive equipped first aid kit, with injections/slap
patches that were already prepared for specific purposes. Hence my
question for your comments.

> Gurths "innadiquite tools" suggestion sounds good.

Yep, already made a note of that one ;)

> M&M covers the cost of all variable rating medkits, but not
> the seperate componants there-of. I think the major cost
> there would be "hardware"- sensors, disposable diagnostics
> tests, etc. Software would be a minor cost. All medkits cost
> much less than a program w/ a similar rating would (unless
> the multiplier is like .01), so the sotware must either be
> very small / simple, or maybe is already "freeware".
> Upgrading just the software would not do you much good, IMO,
> without improving what the software was connected to. If you
> wanted to upgrade the whole kit, I think it would be rather
> like upgrading electronics gear, you'd just pay the cost difference.

Would there be a lot of hardware involved, like sensor you have to stick
onto the victims body, (which was my first impression) or would it be
more like a multiple choice software program, that makes a diagnoses
after you've answered all relating questions (which was my conclusion
after reading the description of a medkit again)?

In the latter, a software upgrade would be far more important than
upgrading some of the hardware parts.

Just my thoughts,

-sven ;)
--
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Wed Jul 4 10:10:01 2001
sven writes:

> Would there be a lot of hardware involved, like sensor you have to stick
> onto the victims body, (which was my first impression) or would it be
> more like a multiple choice software program, that makes a diagnoses
> after you've answered all relating questions (which was my conclusion
> after reading the description of a medkit again)?
>
> In the latter, a software upgrade would be far more important than
> upgrading some of the hardware parts.

I always thought of it as an expert system that asked you for information on
the patients condition ("Is the victim breathing?" "No dammit you fragging
stupid medkit! He's been shot 17 times! If he was breathing I wouldn't be
asking for your help now would I, dammit?" "Has the victim lost more than
approximately 2 litres of blood?" ...).

But if it comes up with "please apply the nanite blood vessel repair patch"
and your medkit hasn't got them, then you're in trouble. Thus I would
imagine that lower rating medkits that do not have fancy equipment or
supplies have their expert system edited to skip over these options and go
for whatever they've got that's closest.

Or, possibly, better medkits also have better diagnostics expert systems,
and are able to make better use of what they do have.

Or, more likely, a combination of both. A higher rating medkit has both more
sophisticated supplies and equipment, and a better expert system.

Oh, and BTW, in answer to what started this thread, no I would not rule that
medkits come with any slap patches at all. Look at the relative costs of
these things, for starters! A medkit costs, what 200Y? A rating 4 antidote
patch costs the same. Therefore I conclude that medkits do not include slap
patches. If you want your medkit to be stocked with slap patches, then buy
some and put them in it.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Wed Jul 4 14:50:01 2001
>Would there be a lot of hardware involved, like sensor you have to stick
>onto the victims body, (which was my first impression) or would it be
>more like a multiple choice software program, that makes a diagnoses
>after you've answered all relating questions (which was my conclusion
>after reading the description of a medkit again)?
>
>In the latter, a software upgrade would be far more important than
>upgrading some of the hardware parts.

Probably a combination of both. Untrained persons are really bad at
noticing determing symptoms, even with a good guide, so some sensors are
pretty important. Thats why I figured just upgrading the software would not
help much. If all the medkit offers is questions and advice, why can't a
somebody with the "biotech" skill do the same thing over the phone (or
matrix, where they could even get a picture)?
I figure some sort of specialized medical simsense would be one of the most
common medical diagnostic tools in 206x - its cheap, potentially very
flexible, and could maybe even be used for biofeedback treatment.

-Mongoose

>
>Just my thoughts,
>
>-sven ;)
>--
>
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Wed Jul 4 15:00:01 2001
On Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:23:40 -0500 "Sebastian Wiers" <m0ng005e@*****.com>
writes:
<SNIP>
> I figure some sort of specialized medical simsense would be one of
> the most
> common medical diagnostic tools in 206x - its cheap, potentially
> very
> flexible, and could maybe even be used for biofeedback treatment.

Hmm. Then, could someone with a limited Simsense rig possible get a bonus
using it or having used upon them? :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (sven)
Subject: Question about Medkit
Date: Thu Jul 5 08:45:01 2001
Thanks for your contributions, they certainly gave me some different
points of view to use.

Thx,

-sven ;)
--

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