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Message no. 1
From: uptoic@***********.net (Aethelwulf)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 19:02:19 -0700
okay I am about to use to names that are considered the evil here, but
that is only because I have convinced the last hold out in my group to
try shadowrun.

I am talking about my group taking the leap from d20 modern Urban Arcana
(here after known as the evil) to shadowrun
specifically, the last hold out was playing a dragon blooded human in
'the evil' and I think she would like to convert the character. so is
there anything in shadowrun that is comparable?

Aethelwulf
Message no. 2
From: u.alberton@*****.com (Bira)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:55:49 -0200
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 19:02:19 -0700, Aethelwulf <uptoic@***********.net> wrote:
> okay I am about to use to names that are considered the evil here, but
> that is only because I have convinced the last hold out in my group to
> try shadowrun.
>
> I am talking about my group taking the leap from d20 modern Urban Arcana
> (here after known as the evil) to shadowrun
> specifically, the last hold out was playing a dragon blooded human in
> 'the evil' and I think she would like to convert the character. so is
> there anything in shadowrun that is comparable?

Both games have a similar premise and probably even a similar play
structure, but they're different enough in the details (and in the
general attitude of the player base) that you're probably better off
starting a new campaign in Shadowrun. If the players really like their
D20 Modern characters, there's nothing stopping you from continuing
your old game along with the new one.

That said, drakes are probably the closest thing to what you want, but
from what I read on the Internet they're over-powered Dragon Men of
Doom and not appropriate for players in less-than-epic campaigns.


--
Bira
http://compexplicita.blogspot.com
Message no. 3
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:56:35 +0100
On Dec 22, 2004, at 03:55, Bira wrote:

> That said, drakes are probably the closest thing to what you want, but
> from what I read on the Internet they're over-powered Dragon Men of
> Doom and not appropriate for players in less-than-epic campaigns.

Actually, the biggest problem with Drakes is that the first time one
shapeshifts to Draconic Form, *all* the Great Dragons in the world
become aware of him, with a rough idea of the place where the shift
occurred. Also, Drakes 1) were created as a slave race for Great
Dragons; and 2) are extremely rare.
Therefore, from his first shift until the end of his life, a Drake
will be very actively hunted by 12 (IIRC) Great Dragons. Needless to
say, that's a Bad Thing (TM).

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 4
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:44:33 -0800 (PST)
--- Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:

>
> > That said, drakes are probably the closest thing to what you
> > want, but from what I read on the Internet they're over-powered
> > Dragon Men of Doom and not appropriate for players in less-than-
> > epic campaigns.

AND

> Actually, the biggest problem with Drakes is that the first time
> one shapeshifts to Draconic Form, *all* the Great Dragons in the
> world become aware of him, with a rough idea of the place where the
> shift occurred. Also, Drakes 1) were created as a slave race for
> Great Dragons; and 2) are extremely rare. Therefore, from his
> first shift until the end of his life, a Drake will be very
> actively hunted by 12 (IIRC) Great Dragons. Needless to say, that's
> a Bad Thing (TM).

Both the supposed power of drakes, and the revelation of their
transformation can be worked around if you want. I recently came up
with some very playable rules for vampire PCs in shadowrun, after
saying for the longest time that they were overpowered for a PC.
Your best bet is to lay out any special abilities they get as a drake
like special skills, and let them be raised with karma. Either pick
arbitary linked attributes, or state that all drake powers are raised
as if they were higher than any linked attribute (hence costing more
karma to raise). Beyond those drake powers, they are basically a
flying reptilian shapeshifter. Assign BP costs as you would for any
other shapeshifter. As to the awareness of their whereabouts by
Great Dragons, simply come up with a reason why they are hidden.
Powerful magics put in play by an unknown benefactor (could be an
ally or an enemy) mask the PC from being sensed by Great Dragons.
Why, who, and how are all up to you. Maybe the Great Dragons are
looking for the missing drake. Maybe they are completely unaware of
their existence. One of the Immortal Elves would love nothing more
than to tweak one of the Great Dragons by stealing and hiding one of
their drakes. The ensuing mess could drive an entire campaign.

======Korishinzo
--Where there's a will, there's a lawyer... err, a way, I mean.



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Message no. 5
From: zebulingod@*******.net (Zebulin)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:10:19 -0800
Ice Heart wrote:
>
> Both the supposed power of drakes, and the revelation of
> their transformation can be worked around if you want. I
> recently came up with some very playable rules for vampire
> PCs in shadowrun, after saying for the longest time that they
> were overpowered for a PC.
>

Would you be willing to type up a copy of those rules and pass it along? I'd
be real interested to see a vampiric character which isn't overpowered.

Zebulin

>From The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord

15. I will never employ any device with a digital countdown. If I find that
such a device is absolutely unavoidable, I will set it to activate when the
counter reaches 117 and the hero is just putting his plan into operation.
Message no. 6
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:08:32 -0800 (PST)
> Would you be willing to type up a copy of those rules and pass it
> along? I'd be real interested to see a vampiric character which
> isn't overpowered.
>
> Zebulin

I will mail them to you when I get home. I don't have them at work.
The secret to balance is cost. The rules I came up with limit vamp
PCs because almost everything a vampire gets in the way of special
abilities are set up as "skills". From Attribute Boosting to Mist
Form to Fear, the ability has a rating that can be raised with karma.
Hence, a starting vamp PC might have very little beyond Regeneration
and a higher running multiplier to set them apart from a mundane.

To put it another way, I created a PC using these rules. At 120 BP,
every main archetype cleans the floor with the vamp. Only
Regeneration even keeps the vamp in the running at all. I created a
vamp with over 200 BP, and he is still relatively weak, especially
compared to any non-vampire character created with over 200 BP.
Rough math indicates that somewhere in the 500-600 karma range, a
prudent PC vamp will virtually unkillable and ridiculously formidable
in a fight. Of course, imagine what a PC mage with 500 karma would
be like. :)

Basically, my rules allow PCs to have Regeneration at the cost of
much slower advancement. Without being part animal. Some jump at
it, other don't. I've worked through combinations such as vampire
adepts and vampire mages, and they remain balanced with non-vampire
characters. In all honesty, I would let a player create a vampire in
my games more quickly than ghouls or shapeshifters, using my rules.

======Korishinzo
--Dual nature is not always a good thing, hmmm?



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Message no. 7
From: NightLife@*****.rr.com (NightLife)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:40:10 -0500
>Would you be willing to type up a copy of those rules and pass it along? I'd
>be real interested to see a vampiric character which isn't overpowered.
>
>Zebulin

I'd like to see those as well.
Message no. 8
From: zebulingod@*******.net (Zebulin)
Subject: Question about races
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:11:27 -0800
Ice Heart wrote:
>
> I will mail them to you when I get home. I don't have them at work.
> The secret to balance is cost. The rules I came up with
> limit vamp PCs because almost everything a vampire gets in
> the way of special abilities are set up as "skills". From
> Attribute Boosting to Mist Form to Fear, the ability has a
> rating that can be raised with karma.
> Hence, a starting vamp PC might have very little beyond
> Regeneration and a higher running multiplier to set them
> apart from a mundane.
>

Any character having the power of Fear is a very bad thing, IMO. While there
are counters to the power, it's one of those things that can seriously
unbalance a game in the characters favor. Although, if it works, it should
work against just about anyone, and the player's buddies may well be
affected, too. Hmmm, I'll wait to see what you came up with.

Zebulin

>From The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord

15. I will never employ any device with a digital countdown. If I find that
such a device is absolutely unavoidable, I will set it to activate when the
counter reaches 117 and the hero is just putting his plan into operation.

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